The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

Poody · Post by **Poody** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:09 pm

Wow, there's a lot of drama in this page of the thread.

jpanimation · Post by **jpanimation** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:20 pm

2099net wrote:even two perceived "flops" like Treasure Planet and Brother Bear, both of which still did incredible numbers on home video and in the latter's case was more readily embraced outside America.

Disney Feature Animation Florida never made a flop, as films were made considerably cheaper there, unless I have the wrong numbers (in which case I'd like to see the correct ones):

Mulan Production Budget: $90 million Worldwide Gross: $304,320,254

Lilo & Stitch Production Budget: $80 million Worldwide Gross: $273,144,151

Brother Bear Production Budget: $85 million Worldwide Gross: $250,397,798

$30-40 million should be added to the price on all these productions for the marketing costs (then subtract what theaters took and your left with what Disney earned). I won’t include DVD and merchandise sales. While not all of the Florida productions were “hits”, they certainly were NOT "flops". Compare those numbers to what should really be considered "flops":

Treasure Planet Production Budget: $140 million Worldwide Gross: $109,578,115 (or $91,800,000?)

Home on the Range Production Budget: $110 million Worldwide Gross: $103,951,461 (or $76,482,461?)

All the Burbank animated features made this decade have cost over $100 million to make, making their profit margins smaller, but those two films were the only two to actually flop. The Princess and the Frog is estimated to cost around $105 million to make, even with all the budget cutting procedures being thrown in place. That price is actually pretty good considering the government inflated (or devalued) our dollar since then and the old idiots who were running the show threw out all the old desks and equipment and fired all the establish animators.

What a stupidly long off-topic rant about perceived flops but it just kind of irks me to constantly hear them mistakenly being called flops (unless the numbers I have are wrong, in which case I'd like to be presented with the correct numbers).

Bold numbers come from boxofficemojo.com, numbers in parentheses and in question are from www.the-numbers.com.

pap64 · Post by **pap64** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:38 pm

Poody wrote:Wow, there's a lot of drama in this page of the thread.

Nah, I think the "Disney was racist" and "Sweatshop labour" threads generate more drama

.

jpanimation: We just need the movie to open nationwide so we spend more time discussing the film. While that happens all we do is talk about what others are saying and overall numbers

.

Babaloo · Post by **Babaloo** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:54 pm

Hey! This is probably really random to even say especially now since there's so much drama on this thread that came out of no where. But anyways I can't help but see similarities between this and the Disney Renaissance

... This is a movie that was made by John Musker and Ron Clements, as was Little Mermaid, and is supposed to be a return of the musical, and both coming out in years that end in 9 (1989 and 2009). The movie that came out before each one was about animals (specifically dogs and cats), which was Oliver and Company (which was an experiment to musicals) and Bolt, coming out in 1988 and 2008 respectively (and the main human girl in each story are named Jenny and Penny). Also, I think, both PatF and Mermaid feature the only humans that appear as something other than human beings, or least the only princesses. --> Most random observations...sorry

!

I know this probably doesn't fit here on this thread, but I felt like I had to say it. And for some reason, although I know that it shouldn't make a difference, it gets me more excited for PatF. Mermaid, my favourite Disney movie, had its flaws as well and was not well received by everyone too. So I'm hoping I will love this movie as well! And I don't care what any critic or basher says!

I know that I shouldn't even make the above comparison to aid my excitement for this movie, but I can't help it!

Also I don't think that a commercial or trailer says anything about a movie and what it's final product is. The commercial is chosen for marketing purposes and I think for this movie they just picked a bad way of doing so. Just a personal opinion

.

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:56 pm

That post fits perfectly well here, Babaloo!
But yeah, I think we discussed all of those similarities in an earlier TPatF thread.... spooky, aren't they? It's ba-aaack!

Babaloo · Post by **Babaloo** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 9:57 pm

Margos wrote:That post fits perfectly well here, Babaloo!
But yeah, I think we discussed all of those similarities in an earlier TPatF thread.... spooky, aren't they? It's ba-aaack!

Lol sorry guys I didn't know that

... EMBARRASSING lol

!

pap64 · Post by **pap64** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:00 pm

To add to the similarities, the film that follows Princess and the Frog is also a princess/fairy tale musical, in the same way that Beauty and the Beast was a musical fairy tale that followed Little Mermaid.

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:03 pm

Oh yeah, and the Winnie the Pooh sequel mirrors "The Rescuers Down Under."

Babaloo · Post by **Babaloo** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:07 pm

Lol I continue to be more amazed! It's like Disney has planned this for a while. "Let's make some movies in the 2000's that many people will not like, then let's use the same formula for success we used in the 90's

"

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:09 pm

It's almost like TLM was Abraham Lincoln and TPatF is JFK!

(Oh boy, what a load of acronyms!

)

Babaloo · Post by **Babaloo** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:13 pm

HAHA this is so funny...much better than the arguing that was going on

! But seriously here's hoping to a long line of great movies until 2019

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:22 pm

And well beyond! *raises glass*

pap64 · Post by **pap64** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:40 pm

There are far more similarities, all involving Disney history. The release of the Princess and the Frog pretty much follows the Disney tradition of releasing a princess film just when the studio needs one.

Let's go back...

Disney first movie was Snow White, a princess movie. It was a huge hit and sends Disney into a golden era that lasted until the beginning of WWII. By then, most of the films Disney released under performed at the box office. To stay afloat, Disney did war shorts, cartoons, propaganda and inexpensive films like Make Mine Music and Melody Time.

When the war ends, the studio decides to release its first full length animated feature in years, Cinderella, a princess film. The success is big enough that it launches Disney into another golden era of film, and this time it expands over to television and technology.

When Disney died, the company enters a "dark" era in which the films produced lacked the polish they had under Disney's guidance. In the 80s things get even darker thanks to an abrupt change in people. After a big failure and a couple of small successes Disney releases The Little Mermaid, a princess film. It launches the company into yet another golden era that would last until the mid to late 90s, when their films started to dwindle once more at the box office.

Now, the Princess and the Frog is released at a time in which the Disney name is not as strong as it used to be, due to poor movies, apparent box office failures and strong competition from the likes of Pixar and Dreamworks.

The only thing left to see is if the movie proves to be a huge success.

I know this is a pretty condensed version of the history of Disney films, but there are a lot of similarities to be found.

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:42 pm

Of course, now we need a name for this. Snow's era was the "Golden Age," Cindy's was the "Silver Age," Ariel's was the "Renaissance." What will Tiana's be called? We can't call it a "re-re-birth." That just sounds odd.

pap64 · Post by **pap64** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:43 pm

Since the Princess and the Frog is all about being green...the emerald decade? How about turn of the century?

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:47 pm

The Millenium Age?

BTW, what have y'all been calling the era we're currently in? I've just been saying "Post-Renaissance," because I have no idea what else to call it.

jpanimation · Post by **jpanimation** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:47 pm

Well, to call it an era you need more then one successful film. Before dubbing it anything we should wait and see how this and the following movies do.

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:50 pm

"New-Age Disney."

Margos · Post by **Margos** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:53 pm

I like that, Enigmawing!

Why so pessimistic, jpanimation? Sure, they might not do too well financially, but for us, the people tracking Disney history as it is being made, we can read the patterns. No matter what the money says, we know that this is something new. The dawning of a new age, in which CG and 2D can live together in harmony, and each will have its days in the sun. Another princess film, another decade... it's history in the making, folks!

Elladorine · Post by **Elladorine** » Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:00 pm

Thanks.

I really do feel like this is the beginning of a new era with the studio, even if we haven't seen much of it just yet.

We'll see what happens? And someday look back on this thread and laugh.

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