There was talk about the Bible being hard to understand. But it seems not everything I meant was understood, either. Things weren't all "gotten" that I wrote. But I kind of like that it is possible for us to all use the same words and alphabet yet there are all these different possible meanings and understandings, which we may realize later.
Isidour, judging by your avatar and certain remarks about you being like Giselle hehee, I would think you would appreciate the beauty and amazement of the world. I bet you still do.
Scientists look microscopically at the details of things, and make analogies, saying things are just like other things.
But we should look at and celebrate differences. Of course things are like each other, looking at how they are unique is the better thing. We are amazing humans, look at how amazing we are, and be amazed how this world exists. We are more than animals. Do not lose your humanity, or your uniqueness.
Now, talking about God, with those attacking the very idea, has been not good, so it's wise to avoid it, but I'd still like to address things.
Goliath, of course you don't understand. You actually said you don't understand many things many times in your posts. Like not understanding the Bible, as one example. Learning facts (or what others write as facts), is not the same as understanding things, of course.
Of course I do not know some things in the sense of the word "know" I think you mean. Instead there is believing. And also, what you hear passed down from the times the Bible was written, etc.
If God appeared and told everyone what he wanted, no one would need to believe anymore. Everyone would do everything he asked because they would know for sure their would be a reward or a punishment as this powerful being just appeared to their physical senses and told them.Goliath wrote:And isn't it awful convenient to say that God 'spoke through these authors' and they didn't quite get it right because they had flaws etc. etc.? If God really wants his messages to reach the people, why doesn't he just appear and say to the people: "yo, listen up, here's the deal, 'kay?" Why does he have to find human writers to interpret his messages in stories which end up contradicting one another? The answer is, again, that men (humans!) made the stories up.
When Jesus taught on Earth, he performed small miracles, which not everyone saw, they lived in an age where no one could take videos, some people saw what he did and the rest could only hear about what he did, and some probably doubted that what they were seeing wasn't just tricks, the same as people doubt what they see today, not to mention some people thought Jesus may have had spiritual (or occult) power but still said a heretic for saying he was the son of God. But other than that, he was still in the form of a weak human, and people still needed to believe in what he was saying, believe he was who he said he was. And those that didn't, well, killed him.
The Bible is something left to us, that holds everything that happened since the beginning of time. All we need to know is what happened very early on, and everything we need to know's right there. God appeared once in the flesh. Once should be enough. That's the whole point.
Interesting.Goliath wrote:The earliest stories in the Old Testament are believed to have been written during the time the Jews were in exile in Babylon (under the reign of Nebudchadnezzar).
But anyway...
Yes, you already said some biblical stories are different versions of earlier stories. And I already pointed out every story is just a different version of another story. You have heard the phrase "There are only seven stories in the world"? That's some of what the whole TV thing was about, maybe you'll get more what I was saying now. Of course, that phrase is something someone said that they believed to be true, based on whatever evidence and looking at similarities they did (like a scientist!), but I can choose not to believe it, so I can be happy and try to create new things. Believing is a wonderful thing.
Anyway, historians have found that a great flood of those proportions did indeed happen to the world, and of course different cultures would spin the account differently. No one can figure out which one is the true account. I do not care if the writers of the Bible got a few names and details wrong. The point is the messages God wants to send are there.
Mention of multiple gods roaming around in the Bible makes perfect sense. The people did indeed believe in multiple gods before God himself told them, "Yea, um, it's only me and some angels and spirits, k?" No doubt the writers recorded a lot of history, very many stories they heard, from people who lived before they learned some things about God.
On the contrary, there are lots of things you'd be happier not to know. You know there's things you would not like to know, not like to find out about.Goliath wrote:I've heard it, and it's a false saying. It's invented to keep people uninformed and ingnorant of the truth.
But it certainly can't be false when I am an example of a person who has been happier not knowing certain things. Knowing certain things has actually made me unhappy. As is the case with everyone. As we grow up, we learn terrible things which make us less happy than we were before, along with learning the things that make us happy. But why not choose to only learn the things that make us happy? Well, yes, that's what we should do.
And as for the "truth" to be ignorant of, as I said, the "truth" gets changed each day by whatever scientists or historians or others find.
Religion DOES get updated. Every new Pope allows or decides new things. The church started to allow altar girls when they previously did not. They keep forgiving people that they previously said were heretics or blasphemers, like Galileo, for saying the planets revolved around the sun, etc, all because of new information. The Bible most certainly does get revised and edited, not the original text, but at least the translations, and there are debates as to which books to keep or even add, the dead sea scrolls were found, etc. Religion is certainly open to debate as there are debates about it within the church by religious leaders, or debates by other people who talk to religious leaders. And you can indeed question it, as every adult, even the church, knows people must, and a priest I told encouraged me to.
Yes, believing what you choose to believe is indeed thinking for yourself.
But you forget, what's right or wrong is also in opinion, or rather, beliefs. And some scientists would and still are believing whatever us mutated homosexuals are is not how we're supposed to be, and as they scientifically find out how people work and offer babies' sexes to be determined before being born, who knows what will become of homosexuals using science.Goliath wrote:Yes, once they did. But decades ago, they found out that they were wrong. And they admitted it. And now they don't call it that anymore. Because they're wiser now. Whereas religion still uses the Bible and the Thora and the Qu'ran to oppress and harrass homosexuals.Disney Duster wrote:As I said, they classified homosexuality as a mental illness.
Hm, maybe the truth has nothing to do with people's happiness.Goliath wrote:It can make you happy, but it has nothing to do with the truth.
You are curious. Finding "the truth", knowing what is "real" can make you happy, because you want to do it, it's what you want to do now. Yet, some things you find out also make you unhappy. I know it's a double-edged sword. And I know you don't want to believe that you can't find the truth, or that there is no truth, because then there's nothing to hold on to. But you can believe what you want, and believe it is right and true. And it will be real and true as far as you're concerned. And that's what you can do. So I suggest you find out about things that will make you happy, not just be happy because you're finding out things. Learn about an upcoming movie you're interested in.
Animals do indeed war with and kill each other. A mother hamster doesn't need religious beliefs or greed for money when she eats her own babies. Tell cows they don't pollute the air with their own methane. Those are just some examples. But it doesn't matter anyway, because, as you see, humans already do something more than animals, you just listed some bad things we do that they don't.
But aside from that specific physical sense, humans are more than animals in another sense, whether it's a higher being sense or a spiritual sense. Whatever sense it is, whatever it indescribably is, you have always known humans are more.
If you want to feel more like an animal and take your evolution back billions of years, well, I don't know why you would, but do what you want!
And of course, to believe is human.
Oh, Chris, you sadden me. You said you loved Goliath right then. You may be surprised to find out what science says about love itself. No matter what they ever say, believe it is more, believe it is what you think it is, and what you want to, ok? Science believes, or rather, tells us they "know" that the world is all these rules and it totally is only everything they say. Well, Ariel went after her dreams, her impossible dreams, and believed she could do anything. She believed, no matter what, someday she'd be part of that world.
Do not believe in nothing, you may say you believe in this world and it's people, but scientists will tell you it will all either turn back to dust, be swallowed by the sun or a black hole, or retract back into nothing when the universe is done expanding from the Big Bang and does the opposite.
Ariel believed in more than what seemed physically, scientifically possible. Chris, don't ever stop believing. It is not looney or crap to believe. After all, what everyone is doing is believing. People just believe different things. Believe in what makes you happy, Chris.
And of course I already explained that if God appeared and said what was what today, to everyone instead of only to a few chosen people back then, who told others about it, then no one would be required to believe, and everyone would do exactly what he wanted because he was right there.
And of course the people who believed in that were persecuted as well.Goliath wrote:Ain't that the truth. I've said it often to people: suppose I walk outside and I declare to everybody I meet that I'm the son of God. People would laugh at me, the autorities would have me arrested for disturbing public order.[/b]
Oh, much like what happened to Jesus. Laughed at, arrested, and then of course killed by the authorities.Goliath wrote:But believing that a 2,000 years old man who raised from the death is answering your prayers? Noooo, THAT'S not ridiculous!...
I also want to educate people about the Bible. I want to educate them about what changes happened to it, what was possibly the original Bible with it's original meanings, about anything regarding homosexuality, if it was even in the Bible.
But I do not want to crush their whole religion by, well, what you seem to be doing, trying to say the whole Bible is made up or fake. This is a big difference between what you want to do and what I wish to do.
WELL I really don't want to talk about religion much more in here. If you don't have a whole narrative to say, then I'll respond to whatever you want to write back, but if you have a huge amount more, we should probably move it somewhere.
) that at least four girls I went to school with are now lesbians. But even if they weren't around, I think that I would remain pro-gay rights. I'm an idealist at heart and honestly believe in equal rights for every person, and I find it so ridiculous that somebody would deny someone the right to do certain things just because they find adults (yes adults, not children or animals for God's sake) of the same sex attractive.