What's your religion?

[Goliath]

we no longer go to the priest for confession & when I repent & ask God in Jesus’ name to forgive me, he not only does so, but it says he throws my sins into the deepest sea & they are eternally forgotten. So if he forgives & forgets, there is no need for you to know. However it is simple to break God’s laws. I have broken Gods law. God’s law is the 10 commandments

But why does it matter whether or not you break God's laws, if he forgives you anyway? You just have to ask nice and he'll forgive them? That's what you say. Or does he forgive some sins, but not others? Does he forgive somebody who 'did not honor his father and mother', but does he not forgive somebody who killed someone? Or does it depends *how* you ask it? Would God throw somebody in hell for stealing something he really needed (e.g. food), but who never asked for forgiveness; but would he let somebody in heaven who committed a murder, but who asked for forgiveness?

God’s law is the 10 commandments:
Do not murder

I've read the Old Testament, but there's an awful lot of murder in it, committed by the people of israel, ordered by God. Basically everybody who didn't belong to 'God's own people' got murdered. So why does God contradict himself?

You shall not make for yourself an idol.
That also means don’t make a God to suit yourself, such as saying “God would not send people to hell” etc.

But isn't that exactly what you're doing right now? You do not know God, yet you speak on his behalf. You're telling others what God would or wouldn't do. There's a lot of christians doing that. Going around telling others that God doesn't like this or that, or such and such... You're contradicting yourself here.

Do we really need ten commandments? Some of them overlap each other, so some of them are kind of redundant. Can't we make the list slighly more efficient? And while we're at it, can't we take out those that don't really make sense?

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/YzEs2 ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube-nocookie.com/v/YzEs2 ... en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I thought God already has a masterplan for everything, so that negates free will?

He knows the beginning and the end of every thing. Therefore he knows what your choices will be before you exist

That means that he already knows everything that will happen. Then, like Super Aurora said, he must have known Eve would sin when he created her. So if he knew and still persisted, this means he also made it possible for her to sin. So the logical consequence is that God created sins. But you say that's exactly what he opposes.

Also, I remember from Exodus that God controls people's will, too. He controlled the pharao's will, so he would not let the people of israel go. But that's exactly what Moses asked God for: to let his people go. God then made Moses his messenger to persuade the pharao. But at the same time, God already decided the pharao's will and because of his refusal, an awful lot of people (including babies) were killed by God. Which he justified by the refusal of the pharao... but he controlled the pharao's thoughts!

Mind blowing isn’t it?

Yes, it *is* mind blowing that somebody has an empty spot for all these incredibly huge contradictions in religion. I don't understand how you can't see how everything contradicts everything.

I thought God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) were one?

Correct. This is very hard to grasp even for some Christians.

So that means that God had *himself* nailed to a cross?

It's all very confusing.

Matthew ch7 7-8 Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened up to you: For everyone that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened.

Yeah, I was being sarcastic. I placed the rolling eyes-emoticon there to underline that. I guess I wasn't clear enough, my bad. I guess it's not confusing to you, because you have one book you can quote from all the time. You've been taught to believe everything in it is true, and that's that. You don't have to think for yourself anymore. And all the blatant inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible? Well, I'm sure you've been taught to ignore them or to simply say: "God works in mysterious ways".

If you then accept Jesus as Lord, he is the one who gives you a personal relationship with the Father & Son.

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

But seriously: how do I, simple earthling, know you are right in telling me Jesus and God are (is?) the one and only supreme being(s)? I have people tell me that instead, Mohammed is the one and only prophet and Allah is the one and only god. Some other people tell me God does exists, but he really goes by the name of Jaweh and Jesus was just a crook we shouldn't believe. Others believe in a few hundred hindu gods.

Who is right?

He loves YOU! He loves me, & all we need do is accept his love freely. What a deal! Is there any thing confusing about that? But it comes at the price of the world hating you, again in previous post. Well worth it for eternity with him in his kingdom(heaven) .

Yeah, it sounds very logical to me now. I have to acknowledge God as the one and only supreme being, because he loves me, but if I don't acknowledge him, he doesn't love and will throw me in hell. Kind of an abusive relationship, but okay... And I have to make sure I will never break any of God's laws, but that is impossible since he already controls my will, so if he wants me to break his laws, he will make sure I will. But if he can make me do anything, then why doesn't he just *make* me acknowledging him?

No, you're right... nothing confusing about that at all.

[Lazario]

Name one thing you've done that is wrong.

Why?

Because you said, "it bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner." How are you a sinner? If you're telling us you're a sinner, you're already sharing personal details. Might as well tell us why you're bad and kill the suspense.

In the old testament they had to go to the priest to confess their sin & offer a sacrifice.
Then Jesus came & was sacrificed once for all the bible says. (unlike the catholics) we no longer go to the priest for confession & when I repent & ask God in Jesus’ name to forgive me, he not only does so, but it says he throws my sins into the deepest sea & they are eternally forgotten. So if he forgives & forgets, there is no need for you to know. However it is simple to break God’s laws.
I have broken Gods law.
God’s law is the 10 commandments:
You shall have no other God but me.
Do not steal
Do not lie.
Do not murder
Honour your mother and father, just to name some of them. It’s easy to look at them and say oh I don’t do those things, but lets go over them.
You shall have no other God but me: That means he is your only God & 1st love. If you idolise, worship or adore something more than him, you are putting something before him.

Do not lie? Does it really say that in the commandments?

Because then, there are a lot of children in hell. Children die all the time. And many of them if not most don't have the time to confess their lie or pray for forgiveness to God. What kind of religion sends people who don't get the chance to redeem themselves to hell?

Do not lie: the bible says every Liar will have his place in the lake of fire.

You think God allows children to spend an eternity of something like that just for saying their sibling broke a vase or tried to turn an F on their report card to a B?

God obviously was never one of us, otherwise having a sense of humor would be a sin too- because the type of diseased mind that would think of saying lying is just as bad as killing someone is not someone who created the human race, let alone in their image.

b) by this statement, this means that the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Tao, etc are all "evil" and false religion just because just because you're so call God said so.

Exactly! This proves that there is something fishy about this God / Christianity thing the way it's written.

If God is all-knowning and Christianity governs the entire world... why isn't that religion native to all countries in all places? Why didn't the people of all these different nations see the same signs, witness the same miracles? There are oceans running to, from, and around every continent. Almost every continent has snow, ice, deserts, swamps / grasslands, forests, mountains, rain, etc. We all have humans, plants, bugs, and wild animals. There's no reason why entire nations of people should not have come into contact firsthand with the things that make America mostly Christian. These different places and groups of people have their own religions because their religions are all man-made. This includes Christianity. And people who can not admit that are blind, plain and simple.

[disneyboy20022]

If you then accept Jesus as Lord, he is the one who gives you a personal relationship with the Father & Son.

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

Ask and you shall recieve


http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/God/10 ... 955?ref=ts

[Black pearl]

Sorry I have ltd net access so did not have time to respond to your comments before.
My previous posts explain what the bible says makes a Christian.

I'm not too keen on following a religion that influences people with fear.

Read my last post about making an idol.

a religion that influences people with fear

God is about love AND justice.

If you commit sins, and don't believe in God, you will be eternally damned.

So what you want is no justice, do any evil you like, then get off scott free? I don’t think the law works like that, why would a perfect God. Especially when he sent Jesus to pay the fine for you. A free gift, but like any gift, you have to receive it in order for it to do you any good. That gift is salvation, & free will allows you to accept or reject his offer & spend eternity with him or not. Sounds very unfair to me, what did I do to deserve that? I can NEVER earn my way but freely receive. That is not fair to him, but I know a good deal when I see one.

he would have planned for Eve to eat the apple, and invent sin. He would have already known that he would send his son/himself to be tortured to death. So ultimately, he himself invented sin.

Last post explains free will eg eating apple. Yes he knew from the beginning he would send his son. He invented sin, of course! Did not expect me to agree with that did you. If there was no sin, what would be the alternative choices with our free will if an alternative did not exist? There would be no point to having a free will. So no argument there. Also of course, free will gives you the choice to follow any other religion or none at all.

[ajmrowland]

Why?

Because you said, "it bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner." How are you a sinner? If you're telling us you're a sinner, you're already sharing personal details. Might as well tell us why you're bad and kill the suspense.

In the old testament they had to go to the priest to confess their sin & offer a sacrifice.
Then Jesus came & was sacrificed once for all the bible says. (unlike the catholics) we no longer go to the priest for confession & when I repent & ask God in Jesus’ name to forgive me, he not only does so, but it says he throws my sins into the deepest sea & they are eternally forgotten. So if he forgives & forgets, there is no need for you to know. However it is simple to break God’s laws.
I have broken Gods law.
God’s law is the 10 commandments:
You shall have no other God but me.
Do not steal
Do not lie.
Do not murder
Honour your mother and father, just to name some of them. It’s easy to look at them and say oh I don’t do those things, but lets go over them.
You shall have no other God but me: That means he is your only God & 1st love. If you idolise, worship or adore something more than him, you are putting something before him.

Do not lie? Does it really say that in the commandments?

Because then, there are a lot of children in hell. Children die all the time. And many of them if not most don't have the time to confess their lie or pray for forgiveness to God. What kind of religion sends people who don't get the chance to redeem themselves to hell?

Do not lie: the bible says every Liar will have his place in the lake of fire.

You think God allows children to spend an eternity of something like that just for saying their sibling broke a vase or tried to turn an F on their report card to a B?

God obviously was never one of us, otherwise having a sense of humor would be a sin too- because the type of diseased mind that would think of saying lying is just as bad as killing someone is not someone who created the human race, let alone in their image.

b) by this statement, this means that the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Tao, etc are all "evil" and false religion just because just because you're so call God said so.

Exactly! This proves that there is something fishy about this God / Christianity thing the way it's written.

If God is all-knowning and Christianity governs the entire world... why isn't that religion native to all countries in all places? Why didn't the people of all these different nations see the same signs, witness the same miracles? There are oceans running to, from, and around every continent. Almost every continent has snow, ice, deserts, swamps / grasslands, forests, mountains, rain, etc. We all have humans, plants, bugs, and wild animals. There's no reason why entire nations of people should not have come into contact firsthand with the things that make America mostly Christian. These different places and groups of people have their own religions because their religions are all man-made. This includes Christianity. And people who can not admit that are blind, plain and simple.

I redirect you to Goliath's post above yours. he already proved you wrong.

[Goliath]

@ ajmrowland: Not to be a prick, but I don't think that kind of excessive quoting is necessary.

So what you want is no justice, do any evil you like, then get off scott free? I don’t think the law works like that,

Yes, it does. Just ask Dick Cheney.

Last post explains free will eg eating apple. Yes he knew from the beginning he would send his son. He invented sin, of course! Did not expect me to agree with that did you. If there was no sin, what would be the alternative choices with our free will if an alternative did not exist? There would be no point to having a free will. So no argument there. Also of course, free will gives you the choice to follow any other religion or none at all.

So God invented sin? Now I'm confused, because before, you said the devil is what makes people commit a sin. You're contradicting yourself again. But what you're trying to tell me is that God invented sin, wanted people to sin, only so people would have to beg him to forgive them for the sinning they did, but that he invented in the first place?



Doesn't that bother abybody? The idea that God is fucking with our heads, just for his own entertainment? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge.

[Lazario]

Because you said, "it bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner." How are you a sinner? If you're telling us you're a sinner, you're already sharing personal details. Might as well tell us why you're bad and kill the suspense.

Do not lie? Does it really say that in the commandments?

Because then, there are a lot of children in hell. Children die all the time. And many of them if not most don't have the time to confess their lie or pray for forgiveness to God. What kind of religion sends people who don't get the chance to redeem themselves to hell?

You think God allows children to spend an eternity of something like that just for saying their sibling broke a vase or tried to turn an F on their report card to a B?

God obviously was never one of us, otherwise having a sense of humor would be a sin too- because the type of diseased mind that would think of saying lying is just as bad as killing someone is not someone who created the human race, let alone in their image.

Exactly! This proves that there is something fishy about this God / Christianity thing the way it's written.

If God is all-knowning and Christianity governs the entire world... why isn't that religion native to all countries in all places? Why didn't the people of all these different nations see the same signs, witness the same miracles? There are oceans running to, from, and around every continent. Almost every continent has snow, ice, deserts, swamps / grasslands, forests, mountains, rain, etc. We all have humans, plants, bugs, and wild animals. There's no reason why entire nations of people should not have come into contact firsthand with the things that make America mostly Christian. These different places and groups of people have their own religions because their religions are all man-made. This includes Christianity. And people who can not admit that are blind, plain and simple.

I redirect you to Goliath's post above yours. he already proved you wrong.

Um...

Did you quote the wrong poster, by chance?

[Goliath]

@ Lazario: Not be a moderator, but can we stop this excessive quoting? The forum rules specifically ask not to quote so much, only to add one line. It makes the thread a mess. Thanks.

[Lazario]

Blame the Gingerbread Man- he started it!

[Flanger-Hanger]

Blame the Gingerbread Man- he started it!

Well according to this thread I should blame God for making the Gingerbread Man do it. It was all part of his master plan.

I think.

[Scarred4life]

So what you want is no justice, do any evil you like, then get off scott free?

Well, of course there has to be justice. That isn't what I meant at all. I said it influences people with fear. I feel that some people only follow the 10 Commandments because they are afraid if they don't they'll go to hell. They don't follow them because it's the right thing, rather, they only do it to gain entrance to heaven. And besides, as Lazario said, some people don't get the chance to repent their sins. They may not even know they were sinning. Why should they be punished?

Also of course, free will gives you the choice to follow any other religion or none at all.

Which is a sin, according to you.

So why would God invent sin, and then punish people for it?

Doesn't that bother abybody? The idea that God is fucking with our heads, just for his own entertainment? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge.

Well of course he's fucking with our heads. We're just pawns in his master plan.

[Super Aurora]

Doesn't that bother anybody? The idea that God is fucking with our heads, just for his own entertainment? I have trouble sleeping with that knowledge.

Although Christians don't want to admit it and want to delude themselves, that description is probably one of the most accurate portrayal of real GOD. That or he's just indifferent, and is neither good nor evil. Which is what I go by. (I'm a deist.)

[ajmrowland]

I redirect you to Goliath's post above yours. he already proved you wrong.

Um...

Did you quote the wrong poster, by chance?

no comment.

[Lazario]

Um...

Did you quote the wrong poster, by chance?

no comment.

Why? What the hell did you say that for? What are you talking about? Goliath did not respond to my previous post and "prove me wrong." Me and Goliath basically agree on this subject.

And if you're going to bother to reply, explain that smiley. Or don't use it.

[Black pearl]

No other God but "me", eh? Guess you think all other religions are wrong then. Chances are, they think that about yours which is why they chose alternatives.

Sorry, what’s your point or argument? I completely agree with that! Of course they think they are right or they would not be following theirs as neither would I if I thought mine were wrong. What’s wrong with using my free will to choose which one I follow & serve, as do they? Why are Christians wrong & the others right then?

God is a jealous and attention wanting god

Correct. Exodus ch 20 v 4-5 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them; or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God... Commandment no 2.

Christianity has such an elitism attitude that make me puke.

If this religion is wrong then, which one is right?
Your free will allows you to believe, ignore or puke as you see fit. In fact, that is what God says about some Christians! Revelation ch 3 v15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are luke warm – neither hot nor cold- I will puke (spew) you out of my mouth. This is to Christians that are not doing as they should be. So he thinks like that too. Look to him, not man, man makes mistakes, he is not perfect. For perfection, look to God.

You shall not make for yourself an idol.
That also means don’t make a God to suit yourself, such as saying “God would not send people to hell” etc.

ORLY? Too bad Christianity and even Judaism fall under that category too. All religion do. Again this goes back to what I said before.

Sorry I don’t understand what you are saying. Where are they in that category? All religion do? Are you saying all religions are wrong? If so you believe there is no God, so that would be your belief, & for me to follow your belief I would need you to show me how this is so, exactly what true Christianity does with the existence of God.

For instance, Let's say Hitler killed all the jews but then ask for forgiveness for what he done and ****. Are you honestly saying that because Hitler did that he's going be free from heaven? He won't go to hell? I might as well go kill off people and then ask forgiveness since I'm sure guarantee will go to heaven if I do so, since god require you repent if you want go to heaven.

You are leaving out the big part, it is not just asking for forgiveness but we are to repent (genuinely feel remorse) & turn from sin too. Not for instance steal a car, say sorry then nick another one. If you intentionally sin, you are not sorry (repentant). However in our weakness we still fail, & go back to him like we would an earthly parent & ask forgiveness, he is our heavenly Father. If Hitler were sincere before dying for his repentance, then he would have gone to Heaven. Sin is sin & cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. You are either forgiven or not, its up to you to sincerely ask for it. Not forgetting you must have accepted Jesus as the bible says, John ch14 v 6 Jesus said “I am the way and the truth & the life. No one comes to the father except through me”.

He has every ones number, you just have to answer the call. Read my previous post, John ch3 v16. He loves YOU! He loves me, & all we need do is accept his love freely. What a deal! Is there any thing confusing about that? But it comes at the price of the world hating you, again in previous post. Well worth it for eternity with him in his kingdom(heaven) .

You are aware he was being sarcastic, don't you?

You are aware I used the opportunity given to explain to others what my reply said aren’t you?
You say hypocrisy & contradiction but I don’t hear where.
Why does everybody keep wanting to shoot the messenger? Mark ch 16 v 15 he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
I am doing as I am told and would not want to stuff it down peoples throats if I could. All I am doing is telling the good news as instructed. You are not forced to listen or believe.

But why does it matter whether or not you break God's laws, if he forgives you anyway? You just have to ask nice and he'll forgive them? That's what you say. Or does he forgive some sins, but not others? Does he forgive somebody who 'did not honour his father and mother', but does he not forgive somebody who killed someone? Or does it depends *how* you ask it? Would God throw somebody in hell for stealing something he really needed (e.g. food), but who never asked for forgiveness; but would he let somebody in heaven who committed a murder, but who asked for forgiveness?

There is only one unforgivable sin that you cannot repent from and that is rejection. If you die, you die unforgiven in this case, as you rejected his forgiveness while alive. So supposing someone savagely attacked someone very close to you and in rage you killed them (it’s been known) wouldn’t you be glad after your rage subsided and you were sorry for what you had done, that you could go to God, ask his forgiveness and spend eternity with him. Obviously this is an example, make up a scenario that suites you. If you are that murderer or whatever, think how that would affect you.

God’s law is the 10 commandments:
Do not murder.

I've read the Old Testament, but there's an awful lot of murder in it, committed by the people of israel, ordered by God. Basically everybody who didn't belong to 'God's own people' got murdered. So why does God contradict himself?

Titus ch1 v2 ….which God, that cannot lie ….
God cannot contradict himself. It is an understandable misunderstanding. But the answer is, there is a difference between kill and murder. In those days to kill was like a corporal punishment, punishable by death, to murder was wrong as it is today.

You shall not make for yourself an idol.
That also means don’t make a God to suit yourself, such as saying “God would not send people to hell” etc.

But isn't that exactly what you're doing right now? You do not know God, yet you speak on his behalf. You're telling others what God would or wouldn't do. There's a lot of christians doing that. Going around telling others that God doesn't like this or that, or such and such... You're contradicting yourself here.

Who says I do not know God, he is my Father and I am his child
John ch 1 v 12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God-children born not of natural decent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God. (born again)
1 John ch 3 v 1-2 How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know when he appears, we shall be like him…

If you do not accept Jesus into your life this is what he had to say, John ch 8 v 19 Jesus said, “You do not know me or my father.” If you knew me, you would know my father also.

In my previous post I said he has to be your 1st love. He said in Matthew ch 10 v 37 Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

I do not see if I know God, how your statement can still stand. Also the bible is his word, he says so in it but I can’t remember where right now.

Do we really need ten commandments? Some of them overlap each other, so some of them are kind of redundant. Can't we make the list slighly more efficient? And while we're at it, can't we take out those that don't really make sense?

Well I did not write them and I trust that God knows what is better for me, than I do. Just like when I was a child and my earthly father knew what was best for me. So I am not going to tell my heavenly father that I can do it better.
What ones don’t make sense? What ones do we delete? The following statement is for demonstration purposes only I fancy getting rid of DO NOT MURDER. Well what time shall I come round with an axe then, or do you have another preferred method of annihilation? End of demo.
I don’t think we can improve on them, do you? Besides there are only 10.
Could we do better with 1? Jesus gave us a new one that if we all obeyed, the world would be near perfect, but we don’t even keep just that one. John ch13 v34 A new command I give you: Love one another as I have loved you, so you must love one another.

Isn’t it easy to hate & hard to love. If we could keep just this one, there would be no wars, hunger, theft etc. so lowering the amount of commandments would change nothing because of our disobedience to his commands, (sin) we cannot even keep one of them.

he must have known Eve would sin when he created her. So if he knew and still persisted, this means he also made it possible for her to sin. So the logical consequence is that God created sins. But you say that's exactly what he opposes.

This question is answered yesterday to Scarred4life. Sorry I have limited access to the web and our posts crossed.

So that means that God had *himself* nailed to a cross?

John ch 10 v 30 I and my Father are one.
John ch14 v 7 “If you really knew me, you would know my father as well. From now on, you do know him & have seen him”.

I guess it's not confusing to you, because you have one book you can quote from all the time. You've been taught to believe everything in it is true, and that's that. You don't have to think for yourself anymore. And all the blatant inconsistencies and contradictions in the Bible? Well, I'm sure you've been taught to ignore them or to simply say: "God works in mysterious ways".

I don’t have all the answers, Learning in any subject is a process, but I do believe any answers I need are in the bible. However I am no mathematician, but I would not dream of going to one and telling him every thing he is well versed in is wrong. I would want to learn from him, and would not gain a thing by ridicule, mocking attack, insulting disrespect or argument. I would have questions, that would be healthy as you have. So why not find out facts 1st, assumptions leave the possibility that one could be incorrect.
I have been taught to believe the bible is true, yes, it says it is Gods word and he has never lied to me.
Of course I think for myself, but I trust and am led by the Holy Spirit. I still don’t see any inconsistencies or contradiction in the bible when I read & study the whole picture, and don’t take it out of context. I certainly have not ignored all the questions or accusations everyone has been asking me lately, and answered them accordingly so I don’t think that statement at all accurate.

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

Disney boy answered that one for me, now THAT WAS funny.

But seriously: how do I, simple earthling, know you are right in telling me Jesus and God are (is?) the one and only supreme being(s)? I have people tell me that instead, Mohammed is the one and only prophet and Allah is the one and only god. Some other people tell me God does exists, but he really goes by the name of Jaweh and Jesus was just a crook we shouldn't believe. Others believe in a few hundred hindu gods.

Who is right?

Very good question. Deuteronomy ch 4 v 29 But if from there you seek the Lord your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul. Which other religions offer that? & if you genuinely do this & he does not keep his promise, well gee then, I must be wrong. Does any one else make that claim or offer?

Yeah, it sounds very logical to me now. I have to acknowledge God as the one and only supreme being, because he loves me, but if I don't acknowledge him, he doesn't love and will throw me in hell. Kind of an abusive relationship, but okay... And I have to make sure I will never break any of God's laws, but that is impossible since he already controls my will, so if he wants me to break his laws, he will make sure I will. But if he can make me do anything, then why doesn't he just *make* me acknowledging him?

Again see post to scarred4life about justice and hell. You are correct it is impossible not to break laws, but where does it say he controls your will? Sounds like trying to shift blame to me. Like, it’s not my fault if I put the blame on God. Nice try but you wouldn’t be able to con him if that was the case.

Name one thing you've done that is wrong.

Why?

Because you said, "it bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner." How are you a sinner? If you're telling us you're a sinner, you're already sharing personal details. Might as well tell us why you're bad and kill the suspense.

So in not so many words what you mean is you are down right nosey. Nice try though. Mind you don’t get a long nose like Pinocchio.

Do not lie? Does it really say that in the commandments?

Exodus ch 20 v 16 You shall not give false testimony against your neighbour.
Proverbs ch12 v22 Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord: But they that deal truly are his delight.
Jesus said, Satan is the father of all lies. This means every lie ever told was the influence & direction of him. Lies are his best weapon. It is he who lies about God through false religions, your mind, and other people including false Christians etc. He has many disguises & is a formidable enemy. He even has the power of decievment to appear as an angel of light (a good angel).
John ch8 v44-45 Jesus said, He was a murderer from the beginning, & abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: For he is a liar, & the father of it. & because I tell you the truth, you believe me not.
So a lie is no small thing, even a white lie (that in itself is a lie to say a white lie is ok) considering its source.

by this statement, this means that the Hindu, Buddhist, Sikh, Tao, etc are all "evil" and false religion just because just because you're so call God said so.

Exactly! This proves that there is something fishy about this God / Christianity thing the way it's written.

“This proves” how so? You keep stating things like this and then back it up with nothing.

If God is all-knowning and Christianity governs the entire world... why isn't that religion native to all countries in all places? Why didn't the people of all these different nations see the same signs, witness the same miracles? There are oceans running to, from, and around every continent. Almost every continent has snow, ice, deserts, swamps / grasslands, forests, mountains, rain, etc. We all have humans, plants, bugs, and wild animals. There's no reason why entire nations of people should not have come into contact firsthand with the things that make America mostly Christian. These different places and groups of people have their own religions because their religions are all man-made. This includes Christianity. And people who can not admit that are blind, plain and simple.

There were different beliefs when Jesus himself was here, so I don’t know what point you are making.

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

Ask and you shall recieve

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/God/10 ... 955?ref=ts

Disneyboy20022

I could spend forever on here answering questions, accusations and attacks most of which are as old as the bible. But I won’t. If you have any genuine searching questions, I will be happy to answer to the best of my ability.
However it says in Matthew ch 10 v 14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.
So contrary to being accused of ramming it down peoples throats, we are taught to tell the good news and if they don’t want to hear it move on. So I will no longer be debating disbelievers, but happy to help searchers of what truth is.
For those that have sincere questions, many have been answered in the last few posts, but I will put them all together to make it easier. Please don’t just gloss over them, take in what I am saying, THEN if you do not get a satisfactory answer, ask your question. If you are genuinely searching, I strongly recommend you read the book of John, the 4th book in the New Testament. This gives a very detailed picture of what it is all about.
The bible is an instruction book with rules for our own good. For instance if you say I don’t need to follow that, how would that work if you applied that for instance, to rules of the road. We drive on this side of the road, but I don’t need to follow that rule, I will drive on the other side. How long before you are in trouble, a mess and chaos. This is what has happened to the world. Then we turn round having ignored God’s laws and blame him! For instance why does God do these things if…. Or how comes he lets babies die, etc. It is our sin that removed perfection from this world, and then we bitch about wanting to be free of God but how everything is his fault. Again deceavement from the enemy, without whom there would be no choices, therefore freewill would be redundant. Instead of just accepting things are what they are (for or against) I dare you to investigate the truth. STUDY John, and THEN tell me what you think.

[Black pearl]

All My posts, please read 1st, then if the answer is not here, feel free to ask me. I will no longer answer pointless or abusive comments, this a childrens site too, where sometimes it's difficult to tell who the adults are, eg swearing etc.

To all Christians. (Remember anyone is free to not read this if they do not want to hear about Christianity)
I noticed 62% of you who voted said you are Christian, I wanted to discuss what you think being a Christian means.

I believe being a Christian means obeying and serving God to the best of my ability, and letting Gods forgiveness and the blood of Jesus atone for my shortcomings. I believe it is my duty to share my faith with others as the bible says in Mark ch 16:15, he said to them, “go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation”. But it is up to them if they want to believe or not, it is between them and God and it is not for me to try and force my beliefs on any one.
I believe it is not my place to judge people, whether they believe in God or not, Matthew ch7:1-3, “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way as you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you”.
But I do believe I should lovingly correct those who do believe if it is needed, as the bible says in Galatians ch6:1-3 , “Brother, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also may be tempted. Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ”.
I don’t think being a Christian means life will be a bed of roses, in fact the bible says the opposite, Jesus said himself in John ch 15:20-22, “No servant is greater than his master, if they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me.”, (v 23) “ he who hates me hates my father as well.”, (V 25) “but this is to fulfil what is written in their law: they hated me without reason”.
I believe that Christ died on the cross and rose 3 days later to save those who would believe in him, and that there is no other way to God but through Jesus, John ch3:16-22, “God so loved the world that he gave his one and only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of Gods one and only son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God”.
John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the father except through me”.
I follow God’s word and not mans word even if he is a preacher, if he is not following gods word as warned in 2 Timothy ch4:3-4, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths” and also there is Galatians ch 1:6-11.
I believe that there will be a day of judgment as described in EDIT:> Revelation ch 20: 11-15<EDIT, but thanks to the grace of God and the blood of Christ I will stand before God forgiven and will hear him say “Well done good and faithful servant”.
What do you believe and where do you get it from?

The people, rulers & the soldiers mocked him too.
Luke chapter 23 v 34 then said Jesus, “Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do”. Wow, despite not asking for or wanting it![/quote]

Does it not bother Cristians that they celebrate the brutal torture and murder of an innocent man as a good thing?

It bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner (repentance), but I find the fact that he chose to die for me indescribably wonderful.
Romans ch5 v 7-8 “Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man yet perhaps for a good man someone would dare to die. But God shows his own love towards us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us” .
The bible says Romans ch6 v 23 “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our lord.”, I broke Gods law and Jesus freely chose to take my punishment upon himself, John ch10 v 17-18 “I lay down my life that I may take it again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again.”
Jesus did this so that I and anyone else might be saved if we so choose. John ch3 v 16 -17 “For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son, that WHOSOEVER believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.”
All anyone has to do to be saved is repent from their sins and accept Jesus as lord and saviour over their life, Romans ch 9 v 10 “If you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord”, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
2 Timothy ch2 v 19, “ Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”.
Amazing.

As for comments such as “eating his flesh“, the Pharisees misunderstood this about Jesus in his day too.
Finally I don’t want to worry you, but Saul was on the road to Damascus to persecute and kill Christians where he started his conversion and became Paul the apostle. So having persecuted Christians as he did he instantly became one himself and was one of Gods greatest servants. Now the worrying part, you sound like a prime candidate for God to choose, to me.
Of course, in my eyes that’s a good thing.

Name one thing you've done that is wrong.

Why?
In the old testament they had to go to the priest to confess their sin & offer a sacrifice.
Then Jesus came & was sacrificed once for all the bible says. (unlike the catholics) we no longer go to the priest for confession & when I repent & ask God in Jesus’ name to forgive me, he not only does so, but it says he throws my sins into the deepest sea & they are eternally forgotten. So if he forgives & forgets, there is no need for you to know. However it is simple to break God’s laws.
I have broken Gods law.
God’s law is the 10 commandments:
You shall have no other God but me.
Do not steal
Do not lie.
Do not murder
Honour your mother and father, just to name some of them. It’s easy to look at them and say oh I don’t do those things, but lets go over them.
You shall have no other God but me: That means he is your only God & 1st love. If you idolise, worship or adore something more than him, you are putting something before him. For instance

What about Cthulhu? He's an awesome god:

Do not steal: it doesn’t matter if you steal something little or something big, stealing is stealing, and it doesn’t matter if you say “well that was a long time ago, I don’t do that now”, think of it like this, some one committed a really bad crime such as murder a long time ago & his crime has caught up with him, he is now standing in front of the judge in a court room years later and he says “well that was a really long time ago, I don’t do that anymore” would the judge be just to let him go? No! Then would a holy and righteous God be just to not pass sentence for breaking any laws? No!
Do not lie: the bible says every Liar will have his place in the lake of fire.
Do not murder. 1 john ch3 v 15 Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, & you know that no murderer has eternal life in him.
You shall not make for yourself an idol.
That also means don’t make a God to suit yourself, such as saying “God would not send people to hell” etc.

Did Jesus chose to die for mankind?

Yes read my previous post again about no one takes his life from him but he gives it freely.

I thought God already has a masterplan for everything, so that negates free will?

He knows the beginning and the end of every thing. Therefore he knows what your choices will be before you exist Jeremiah ch 1 v 5 Before I formed you in the belly I knew you….so your free will is only what you will decide whatever his plan.
Mind blowing isn’t it?

I thought God and Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) were one?

Correct. This is very hard to grasp even for some Christians. Perhaps this will help for an example, take a cup of boiling water and drop some DRY ice into it and what do you get in the cup? Answer, water, ice and steam. Three different substances normally with three different purposes but they are all one chemical, h20. God is one with three purposes.

It's all very confusing.

Matthew ch7 7-8 Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and you shall find; knock, and it shall be opened up to you: For everyone that asks receives; and he that seeks finds; and to him that knocks it shall be opened. This is where the Holy spirit comes in, at this time he is here on earth & is the one who reveals himself to you, when that happens, who needs answers, when you can experience him. If you then accept Jesus as Lord, he is the one who gives you a personal relationship with the Father & Son.

I'll be awaiting his call. I think he has my number.

He has every ones number, you just have to answer the call. Read my previous post, John ch3 v16. He loves YOU! He loves me, & all we need do is accept his love freely. What a deal! Is there any thing confusing about that? But it comes at the price of the world hating you, again in previous post. Well worth it for eternity with him in his kingdom(heaven) .

Sorry I have ltd net access so did not have time to respond to your comments before.
My previous posts explain what the bible says makes a Christian.

I'm not too keen on following a religion that influences people with fear.

Read my last post about making an idol.

a religion that influences people with fear

God is about love AND justice.

If you commit sins, and don't believe in God, you will be eternally damned.

So what you want is no justice, do any evil you like, then get off scott free? I don’t think the law works like that, why would a perfect God. Especially when he sent Jesus to pay the fine for you. A free gift, but like any gift, you have to receive it in order for it to do you any good. That gift is salvation, & free will allows you to accept or reject his offer & spend eternity with him or not. Sounds very unfair to me, what did I do to deserve that? I can NEVER earn my way but freely receive. That is not fair to him, but I know a good deal when I see one.

he would have planned for Eve to eat the apple, and invent sin. He would have already known that he would send his son/himself to be tortured to death. So ultimately, he himself invented sin.

Last post explains free will eg eating apple. Yes he knew from the beginning he would send his son. He invented sin, of course! Did not expect me to agree with that did you. If there was no sin, what would be the alternative choices with our free will if an alternative did not exist? There would be no point to having a free will. So no argument there. Also of course, free will gives you the choice to follow any other religion or none at all.

[Lazario]

If God is all-knowning and Christianity governs the entire world... why isn't that religion native to all countries in all places? Why didn't the people of all these different nations see the same signs, witness the same miracles? There are oceans running to, from, and around every continent. Almost every continent has snow, ice, deserts, swamps / grasslands, forests, mountains, rain, etc. We all have humans, plants, bugs, and wild animals. There's no reason why entire nations of people should not have come into contact firsthand with the things that make America mostly Christian. These different places and groups of people have their own religions because their religions are all man-made. This includes Christianity. And people who can not admit that are blind, plain and simple.

There were different beliefs when Jesus himself was here, so I don’t know what point you are making.

The point I'm making is: of all the countries of the world, why were the people of nations harboring other faiths not given the same induction to Christianity as the people you're talking about? Meaning; the chance to see that their non-Christian religion is "false" and will earn them a one-way ticket to Hell.

Again, SuperA proved that your Christianity preaches that people of other faiths are basically heathenous primates because they had the misfortune of being born under the nation where "false Gods" are "the" religion of that nation's people. Christians are special because they were "chosen" to be born in Christian nations. Nations that worship the "religiously-correct" God.

That's fishy. To say the least!

Name one thing you've done that is wrong.

Why?

Because you said, "it bothers me that Jesus needed to die for my sake because I am a sinner." How are you a sinner? If you're telling us you're a sinner, you're already sharing personal details. Might as well tell us why you're bad and kill the suspense.

So in not so many words what you mean is you are down right nosey.

Not really. You said you are a sinner, and if you didn't want to tell us what you're a sinner for - you should not have mentioned it.

And I don't appreciate the snide response referencing Pinocchio. You, again, are the one who brought it up.

Exactly! This proves that there is something fishy about this God / Christianity thing the way it's written.

“This proves” how so? You keep stating things like this and then back it up with nothing.

That's hilarious- just because you can quote verses from a book you can't (nor can anyone else) prove is actually the word of a creator you allege exists, you think you're qualified to judge when I have nothing to back up my statements?

Seriously, this pious-with-a-twist-of-self-righteous b.s. of yours is getting irritating.

[Super Aurora]

I'd love reply to all of her posts but I'll just reply ones directed to me and let Goliath and Lazario handle their portion that are aimed at them.

God is a jealous and attention wanting god

Correct. Exodus ch 20 v 4-5 You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them; or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God... Commandment no 2.

Well since you admit that, that cements that the Christian God is pathetic as he so worry over someone's else belief. So much for his omni-benevolence. So in a sense, God contain two sins himself: Pride and envy. So I wonder why follow in a jealous god?

Christianity has such an elitism attitude that make me puke.

If this religion is wrong then, which one is right?
Your free will allows you to believe, ignore or puke as you see fit. In fact, that is what God says about some Christians! Revelation ch 3 v15-16 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are luke warm – neither hot nor cold- I will puke (spew) you out of my mouth. This is to Christians that are not doing as they should be. So he thinks like that too. Look to him, not man, man makes mistakes, he is not perfect. For perfection, look to God.

We're not pointing which religion is wrong but it seems like Christianity and even other religions as well do same(Islam, Judaism): pointing that their religion is THE BEST and every other one is "evil" or false. What happen to just respecting and accepting someone's belief and leave it at that? Why have wars or fights due to it? Actually it's even funnier cause it mostly between the three: Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. All three believe in same god really....

ORLY? Too bad Christianity and even Judaism fall under that category too. All religion do. Again this goes back to what I said before.

Sorry I don’t understand what you are saying. Where are they in that category? All religion do? Are you saying all religions are wrong? If so you believe there is no God, so that would be your belief, & for me to follow your belief I would need you to show me how this is so, exactly what true Christianity does with the existence of God.

No religion is exactly wrong, but we will say that many religion clash with numerous contradictions that make us puzzle why they still believe in them. Especially this day and age where our brain is supposedly evolved much further and many of the things said in religious text have been proven false by science.
I'm a deist. A deist is a person who believe in one supreme god but that's it.There is no bible, scriptures or any of that needed to follow. basically they think god created universe through concept and then let it all happen in it's process(physic, evolution, laws of nature, etc.) God has no personal interference with mankind. Basically God is indifferent: neither good nor evil. Just a...God. Most people who follow by science are deist. Many of the people who help founded this country, USA, were deist. Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, etc.

For instance, Let's say Hitler killed all the jews but then ask for forgiveness for what he done and ****. Are you honestly saying that because Hitler did that he's going be free from heaven? He won't go to hell? I might as well go kill off people and then ask forgiveness since I'm sure guarantee will go to heaven if I do so, since god require you repent if you want go to heaven.

You are leaving out the big part, it is not just asking for forgiveness but we are to repent (genuinely feel remorse) & turn from sin too. Not for instance steal a car, say sorry then nick another one. If you intentionally sin, you are not sorry (repentant). However in our weakness we still fail, & go back to him like we would an earthly parent & ask forgiveness, he is our heavenly Father. If Hitler were sincere before dying for his repentance, then he would have gone to Heaven. Sin is sin & cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. You are either forgiven or not, its up to you to sincerely ask for it. Not forgetting you must have accepted Jesus as the bible says, John ch14 v 6 Jesus said “I am the way and the truth & the life. No one comes to the father except through me”.

I can see that. Make sense, but again, it goes back to God's omniscience, like we brought up numerous times. It just does not adds up.

If God is omnibenevolence, there's really no purpose to send his "children" down to hell. But earlier you admit he's a jealous god so his All -goodness really don't account to him at all.

You are aware he was being sarcastic, don't you?

You are aware I used the opportunity given to explain to others what my reply said aren’t you?

Even if the person just making a silly joke? Sounds like you're getting very anal about every single criticism about your religion.

You say hypocrisy & contradiction but I don’t hear where.

Or maybe you're not really listening to what we're saying and is just quoting bible scriptures and thinking it's enough to counter-argue it's point?

Why does everybody keep wanting to shoot the messenger? Mark ch 16 v 15 he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.
I am doing as I am told and would not want to stuff it down peoples throats if I could. All I am doing is telling the good news as instructed. You are not forced to listen or believe.

I dunno, it seems like you ARE intending to stuff it down our throat. You don't need to preach it to us. we are capable of deciding for ourselves if we wan become Christians or not, no need for you or any other missionary Christians to baby feed us the info. Stuff like that does piss people off.

[Goliath]

@ Black pearl: Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was going to be an intelligent discussion between two adults, on a serious topic. But now I realize it's just you spamming Bible quotes. Like I said: you're just repeating other people; you don't have to think for yourself anymore. I've learned from experience people who spam Bible quotes aren't capable of having a rational discussion.

@ ajmrowland: Again, not to be a prick, but I asked you before, politely, to not quote so excessively, especially if you're only going to add one line --just as it says in the forum guidelines. This thread is already filled with 'long' pages with a lot of quoting, so let's not make it a bigger mess than it already is.

Although Christians don't want to admit it and want to delude themselves, that description is probably one of the most accurate portrayal of real GOD. That or he's just indifferent, and is neither good nor evil. Which is what I go by. (I'm a deist.)

I must confess, I stole that line from Bill Hicks.

Yes, another comedian. You will not believe how much I've 'learned' from comedians. You can write a thousand posts about the inconsistencies and ridiculousness of religion, but nothing works better than deconstructing the hypocrisy with humor.

Oh, and by the way, people, *this* 'joke'...

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

... was made up by me and not Lazario. Credits were credits are due, right?

Even if the person just making a silly joke?

Now you're calling my jokes 'silly' too?!

[Lazario]

Oh, and by the way, people, *this* 'joke'...

God must have one heck of a busy social life, then. Why isn't he on Facebook already?

... was made up by me and not Lazario. Credits were credits are due, right?

Even if the person just making a silly joke?

Now you're calling my jokes 'silly' too?!

To be fair, he and Disneyboy saying I said that was probably their way of trying to criticise me and not you.