BOLT (formerly American Dog) Discussion

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blackcauldron85
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

I agree with your :roll: and :evil:, Julian. And I'll add a :(. Ugh, John Lasseter, just ugh.

(I just blame him when Pixar gets praised over Disney. Maybe he wants Pixar to be praised over Disney. Has anyone thought of that? I still say that he loves Pixar more, he kind of has to, since that was his company for so long...)

:roll:

I love you, Disney. :D
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Jules
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Post by Jules »

I don't know about ol' Lassie, Ames. I think time will tell on whose side he is, or whether he's impartial. I have nothing against Pixar, but I'm rather tired of critics unfavourably comparing Walt Disney Animation Studios' output to Pixar's.

From what insiders have said, and Jerry Beck and for goodness' sake the Disney legend Floyd Norman too, Bolt is good ... very good. The movie'll probably come to Malta in about February, but when it does I'll be expecting Best Animated Feature material. I don't want Bolt to be Disney's Oliver & Company of the 21st century. That was supposed to be Meet the Robinsons (I film I adore, by the way). I want Bolt to spark a new Renaissance. I want it to be the new The Little Mermaid!

And for people who automatically click the last page of a thread and accidentally miss stuff, here are the reviews I posted on the previous page:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/fil ... &rid=11956

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117939 ... =3266&cs=1
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Post by Jules »

BOLT gets two extremely positive reviews from Ben Mankiewicz and Ben Lyons on At The Movies.

See it here: http://bventertainment.go.com/tv/buenavista/atm/

The reviewers say that it's a sophisiticated animated film that can be added to the list of this year's high quality animations like Kung Fu Panda, Wall-E and Madagascar - Escape 2 Africa.

Ben adds that it's a strong contender for the Best Animated Feature Oscar.[/b]
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Neal
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Post by Neal »

Is "BOLT" the true/official way to write this movie's title? I have seen reviews and IMDb write it as "Bolt" but here you guys write it as "BOLT".

Which is it?
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Post by Widdi »

Anybody seen any good merchandise from the movie yet? I'd love to get a Disney Store Exclusive Quality Bolt plush if any exist, but so far all I've found are cheap (and ugly) Wal-Mart polyester plushies that I wouldn't buy if you paid me.
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Widdi
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Post by Widdi »

Neal wrote:Any of this what you're looking for?
Thanks. That 12 inch Bolt plush is exactly what I'm looking for. Strangely enough the idea of looking at Disney's store site didn't even occur to me... :p

I probably should wait to see the movie to make sure I even like it before I buy, but I don't want to risk them being sold out.

Oh dilemmas...
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Post by pap64 »

Julian Carter wrote:I don't know about ol' Lassie, Ames. I think time will tell on whose side he is, or whether he's impartial. I have nothing against Pixar, but I'm rather tired of critics unfavourably comparing Walt Disney Animation Studios' output to Pixar's.

From what insiders have said, and Jerry Beck and for goodness' sake the Disney legend Floyd Norman too, Bolt is good ... very good. The movie'll probably come to Malta in about February, but when it does I'll be expecting Best Animated Feature material. I don't want Bolt to be Disney's Oliver & Company of the 21st century. That was supposed to be Meet the Robinsons (I film I adore, by the way). I want Bolt to spark a new Renaissance. I want it to be the new The Little Mermaid!

And for people who automatically click the last page of a thread and accidentally miss stuff, here are the reviews I posted on the previous page:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/fil ... &rid=11956

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117939 ... =3266&cs=1
Unfortunately, its a problem ALL CG films suffer from. It doesn't matter if you are Disney or Blue Sky, sooner or later your film will be compared to Pixar's efforts, whether its a good or bad review.

Its like when back in the 90s every non-Disney film that came out during the renaissance was compared to Disney's recent efforts.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

pap64 wrote: Its like when back in the 90s every non-Disney film that came out during the renaissance was compared to Disney's recent efforts.
But Disney is the best, so those comparisons made sense.

(I have to live up to my reputation, people. I had to write that.)
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Post by singerguy04 »

pap64 just read my mind. It's not fair that everything CG is compared to Pixar, but if it makes you feel any better the general public believes that Pixar has always been Disney and a lot of people have no idea Pixar exists lol.

Also, any 2D films is always compared to Disney so in a way.... it all equals out doesn't it?

I also thought it was funny that Widdi was just asking about merchandise for Bolt because I just spent the better part of my day unpacking Blot plush at The Disney Store and refilling it on shelf. It seemed like everytime I was done refilling Rhino plush they'd dissapear in a few minutes. I'm waiting for some Bolt beanies or PVC sets to appear soon.
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Post by corrwill »

Um yeah just got back from seeing the Bolt Sneak Peak tonight...AMAZING!!! Bolt was super cute and watching it in 3D just makes you want a plush of him :) The movie was very funny and had great moments...I even got slightly misty at a point. Yes the pidgins were awesome, as was rhino the hamster. It was a great family movie which I know I will be seeing again over thanksgiving. In my opinion...Disney Animations best since Brother Bear. And trust me...I've seen them all. GO SEE GO SEE
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Post by Widdi »

corrwill wrote:Um yeah just got back from seeing the Bolt Sneak Peak tonight...AMAZING!!! Bolt was super cute and watching it in 3D just makes you want a plush of him :) The movie was very funny and had great moments...I even got slightly misty at a point. Yes the pidgins were awesome, as was rhino the hamster. It was a great family movie which I know I will be seeing again over thanksgiving. In my opinion...Disney Animations best since Brother Bear. And trust me...I've seen them all. GO SEE GO SEE
Damn.

If you hadn't mentioned Brother Bear I'd be happy about your review. But comparing it to that movie (ranked number 46/46 for me) really made my expectations drop.

Hopefully we just have different tastes but can agree on this flick cause I really want to like Bolt.
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Post by corrwill »


Damn.

If you hadn't mentioned Brother Bear I'd be happy about your review. But comparing it to that movie (ranked number 46/46 for me) really made my expectations drop.

Hopefully we just have different tastes but can agree on this flick cause I really want to like Bolt.
Yeah I mentioned Brother Bear cause it was the last time I felt kinda emotional at a "disney animation" film...yeah I liked Brother Bear so shoot me :) I saw Bolt with a friends that I KNOW haven't seen or don't care about Brother Bear and they loved it too...So yeah it's a good one :)
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Post by buffalobill »

I enjoyed it and will buy it when it hits dvd. I was surprised that the theater was only about 1/3 full. Hopefully word of mouth will help it when it has its official release on Friday.
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Post by Kyle »

corrwill wrote:Yeah I mentioned Brother Bear cause it was the last time I felt kinda emotional at a "disney animation" film...yeah I liked Brother Bear so shoot me :) I saw Bolt with a friends that I KNOW haven't seen or don't care about Brother Bear and they loved it too...So yeah it's a good one :)
Brother Bear gets a lot of flak that I'll never really get. it might not be good enough to be considered a classic 10 years from now, but it was still very enjoyable. I don't think think its a too much of a put down to say its the best since that. had you listed chicken little or home on the range then I'd understand where he was coming from. heh

But I think bolt's quality will will be more comparable, to me anyway to meet the Robinson's. it'll be a movie that I'll be glad I saw, but might not want to see again and again.

Edit: also, I want to say something about the pixar comparison. I'm admittedly a Pixar fanboy of sorts, but I don't think its unreasonable to make comparisons. they are the gold standard. the thing is though, I don't think pixar is as good as people think. its just that most 3d animated films fall so short of their potential. it makes pixar, the only one with a near perfect track record seem a lot better then the competition.

quality is a relative term. if more animation studios could deliver as well and/or as often as pixar and live action studios you would not see the comparison like you do right now. pixar isn't perfect people. their not an unobtainable standard, and the more studios stop trying to emulate their style the more success stories thei'll see. they just need to make it their own. I think even Bolt will suffer from this to an extent. it looks like its trying to be a pixar film, which is where the comparisons are going to come from.

had they gone with the original Chris Sanders concept I'm confident the comparisons would be far and few between.




that was a bit more long winded than I planned on...
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

Kyle wrote: I think even Bolt will suffer from this to an extent. it looks like its trying to be a pixar film, which is where the comparisons are going to come from.

had they gone with the original Chris Sanders concept I'm confident the comparisons would be far and few between.
Could that be because John Lasseter was basically in charge of retooling the film? One of my whole complaints about Lasseter is that of course movies he works on are going to have the Pixar touch. I mean, I don't know if people say that Meet the Robinsons has the Pixar touch...but still. :roll:
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Post by yukitora »

They're only comparing BOLT to Pixar because it's a 3D film. I don't think it's because it "feels like a Pixar film".

I mean, they're not going to compare The Princess and the Frog to Pixar despite all of Lasetter's contributions. At least I hope not.

If they're gonna have a full out WALT DISNEY VS PIXAR battle, Disney would win hands down. They've got the films Walt supervised, the "90s renaissance" and all the gems in between. Pixar may be young, and thus it might be unfair to compare them, but I honestly don't think they have the longevity nor the quality of their parent company. John Lasetter is to busy being fat from watching Ghibli/Toy Story 10th Anniversary DVDs to go out into the commercial world and make Pixar the company people adore. The sole reason why Disney is so powerful is because Walt was such a people lover, and expressed so through his TV series and Disneyland. And you can't say "Pixar is above all that commercialism" because the amount of Pixar merchandise I see in stores is horrendous. I see less Hannah Montana junk (love the show, merchandise not-so-much).

My younger sister once wrote on her msn nickname "I love Pixar movies but not as much as Disney". Why? No idea, but it made me smile.
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Post by pap64 »

I personally don't understand why everyone is demonizing Pixar and Lasseter all of a sudden. Yes, I know Lasseter has been behind some of the most controversial decisions ever seen in this generation of Disney films, but now its beginning to feel childish and ignorant.

Let's accept reality here, folks. Lasseter is NOT the only one that watches the films. Yes, his input might be the strongest, since its his job. But he has many people that need to approve the idea FIRST. Remember that Disney is first and foremost a company, and companies seeks profit. Disney's way of gaining profit is by making movies. If a movie doesn't quite work (at least an animated movie) then they either order the movie to be retooled or be scrapped altogether.

Are we quick to forget that Disney did this to his own films? If he struggled to turn a story into a feature film, he would scrap it in favor of another one, even if the story had lots of potential. Did we also forget that at one point Disney wanted to stop making films because he was more interested in the theme parks and TV shows? People had to speak him out of this because they believed that Disney's main product were the animated films, that no amount of theme parks, TV shows and live action movies could change this fact. This is why "Chanticleer" was cancelled, even if it had Marc Davis' great touch all over it. He did this to his beloved animator, one of the nine old men!

If a final film wasn't a critic darling Disney would take it very personally to the point where he hated the film he helped helmed (Fantasia and Alice come to mind). Disney struggled with a lot of decisions. Does anyone remember the story of how a pitch of "The Rescuers" got Disney very angry to the point where he walked out of it? Animators said they could only work on it once Walt was dead!

On the Sleeping Beauty Platinum DVD they say that Disney fired one of the directors because he took too much time working on one scene. This is a very drastic decision that was made because he was using a lot of money, and the film was expensive already.

The point I am trying to make here is that everyone seems to be demonizing Lasseter for all the changes he has done to the recent films, to the point where exaggerated claims of "sabotage" has surfaced. Yet, forget that Disney himself made these sort of decisions and changed the course of Disney forever.

The way I see it, Lasseter is doing what he and the company feel is right, something that businesses do if they hope to stay afloat. Think about it for a second...

You are in charge of approving a film. The director and writers are all very talented and they are your friends. You see the film and you either think it needs a lot of work or its a disaster. You either tell that to them and risk your friendship, or ignore it, releasing onto the world a potential turd.

Pretty hard decision don't you think?

I can't say how these films are made because I don't know Lasseter or anyone at Disney. But I am sure that there's a lot of emotions and egos involved and Lasseter doesn't enjoy it much.

Again, rather than harpooning the guy because he ordered a film to be changed, place yourself in his shoes and try to imagine how much it must suck to make that decision.

Regarding the Disney films having a Pixar touch...I know I am probably going to get flamed for this...but how is that a bad thing?

Let's accept reality for a minute. The Pixar films have proven to be more successful than anything Disney has done since the late 90s. The Disney films, which once received universal acclaim, now get mixed reviews. The Pixar films, on the other hand, have been praised for its inventive stories, great animation and amazing heart, something the Disney films used to do.

Disney has NOT won any Oscars since then, while Dreamworks and Pixar clean up. Can you blame Disney for consulting Lasseter in hopes that his experience in storytelling and direction helps a struggling project along?

And besides, are we quick to forget that the main inspiration behind Pixar is Disney itself? The Pixar crew speak wonderfully of the classic films and how their stories, execution, characters, music and animation inspired them to be at Pixar today. They just took a different direction with their stories, but kept the basics.

Didn't Frank and Ollie's cameo on "The Incredibles" teach you anything? Didn't it spark you the thought that this small cameo was Pixar and Brad Bird's way of paying tribute to the Disney magic that fueled them to make films in the first place?

So look at it this way...

The Pixar touch is "influencing" recent Disney films. The Pixar touch was influenced by Disney. So if a modern film receives some of the Pixar touch, its really helping the film become a better Disney film.

Yes, a though that many shudder at, but once you accept it these decisions become easier to swallow.

Will all of Lasseter's decisions be good? Of course not. He might have a lot of experience, but he is human. Heaven knows that Walt Disney made his share of mistakes. Will they destroy the Disney company? The future is hard to say. He just got promoted and only a handful of films received his input. Are they worth being angry about? OF COURSE NOT!

So, rather than trying demonize Lasseter, trying to hate the way Disney is doing things now and complaining over the internet about it, watch Bolt as the movie it is, rather than the process that went behind it. Something hard to do, especially since so many controversial things happened, but maybe we would all be looking forward to it as a neat little family film rather than either the savior of Disney or the poster boy of when things changed drastically at the studios.

Or in other words, when Disney started worshipping Satan... :twisted:
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Neal
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Post by Neal »

I'll have more to say later. It's late at night for me right now.

For one, Walt didn't end up hating Fantasia. It was his biggest regret. When films flopped he was known not to look back. He kept moving forward. Sleeping Beauty actually failed by box office definition but they kept moving forward because he was sure one day it'd be a success. Fantasia is his one exception. He loved it so much yet it didn't turn out to be the monetary or critical success he hoped. It was the one film he couldn't get over. There was no hate, only sadness.

As for Lasseter - some of his decisions really don't make much sense. He said he wanted to bring Disney back to its golden age with The Princess and the Frog yet he fires Alan Menken? Menken who just wrote songs for "Enchanted" which was hailed for being truly Disney in execution? Menken who was there through Disneys 90's renaissance?! And who is Menken replaced with? Randy Newman?!? A well known friend of Lasseter's who was once beaten by Menken for an Oscar?!?! Come on, you don't think there was a little bit of a chip on Lasseter's shoulder? He said he didn't want Disney fans to have a Menken overload. Well then why not have him do Rapunzel? Why just shove him off of Disney films for the foreseeable future?

Lasseter has pulled some pretty big head-scratchers.

As for what kind of a leader he is - he's not as bold as Walt. Where's Lasseter's Fantasia - his film experiment? WALL-E really can't be it, can it? Where's his truly heart-rending moment like Bambi's mother's death? I don't think Lasseter has the guts for a scene like that. Bolt's source material - American Dog - was too quirky for Lasseter. Lasseter plays it safe. Walt didn't have any real rules. Walt made film poetry, film opuses, experiments - Lasseter makes formula-safe films. Sure, they're funny, witty and pretty but nothing is truly ground-breaking - nothing is risky.

No one is saying Walt's actions are any better than Lasseter's. However, Walt's mantra actually reflected his actions - "keep moving forward" - he had no time to look back. Lasseter's mantra - "this is a director-driven studio now" - is crap. He talked about no suit interference. Well is that why he wears Hawaiian shirts? He said nothing about no Hawaiian shirt interference? Because so far he has tried to bury the memory of Chicken Little, pushed changes on Meet the Robinsons, overhauled Bolt, changed the composers and story for Princess and the Frog, and fired the director of Rapunzel. Right, right...no suit interference at all.

:roll:
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Post by pap64 »

Neal wrote:I'll have more to say later. It's late at night for me right now.

For one, Walt didn't end up hating Fantasia. It was his biggest regret. When films flopped he was known not to look back. He kept moving forward. Sleeping Beauty actually failed by box office definition but they kept moving forward because he was sure one day it'd be a success. Fantasia is his one exception. He loved it so much yet it didn't turn out to be the monetary or critical success he hoped. It was the one film he couldn't get over. There was no hate, only sadness.

As for Lasseter - some of his decisions really don't make much sense. He said he wanted to bring Disney back to its golden age with The Princess and the Frog yet he fires Alan Menken? Menken who just wrote songs for "Enchanted" which was hailed for being truly Disney in execution? Menken who was there through Disneys 90's renaissance?! And who is Menken replaced with? Randy Newman?!? A well known friend of Lasseter's who was once beaten by Menken for an Oscar?!?! Come on, you don't think there was a little bit of a chip on Lasseter's shoulder? He said he didn't want Disney fans to have a Menken overload. Well then why not have him do Rapunzel? Why just shove him off of Disney films for the foreseeable future?

Lasseter has pulled some pretty big head-scratchers.

As for what kind of a leader he is - he's not as bold as Walt. Where's Lasseter's Fantasia - his film experiment? WALL-E really can't be it, can it? Where's his truly heart-rending moment like Bambi's mother's death? I don't think Lasseter has the guts for a scene like that. Bolt's source material - American Dog - was too quirky for Lasseter. Lasseter plays it safe. Walt didn't have any real rules. Walt made film poetry, film opuses, experiments - Lasseter makes formula-safe films. Sure, they're funny, witty and pretty but nothing is truly ground-breaking - nothing is risky.

No one is saying Walt's actions are any better than Lasseter's. However, Walt's mantra actually reflected his actions - "keep moving forward" - he had no time to look back. Lasseter's mantra - "this is a director-driven studio now" - is crap. He talked about no suit interference. Well is that why he wears Hawaiian shirts? He said nothing about no Hawaiian shirt interference? Because so far he has tried to bury the memory of Chicken Little, pushed changes on Meet the Robinsons, overhauled Bolt, changed the composers and story for Princess and the Frog, and fired the director of Rapunzel. Right, right...no suit interference at all.

:roll:
Long story short...

Disney=GOD

Lasseter=SATAN

Sorry if I come off as a jerk, but that's all I am seeing; sheer love towards the Disney brand leading to exaggerated thoughts and anger.

Not saying that Lasseter is perfect or that he WILL lead Disney animation into a new era. I don't know because the future is such a fickle thing. I don't know if his decisions will be worth it in the end.

Again, all I am saying is that he seems to be getting an unfair amount of hate for decisions that would have been made either way or for simply doing his job.

You are right in one thing, though. Lasseter isn't Disney. But neither is Brad Bird, Glen Keane, Tim Burton, Don Bluth, Ralp Bashki, Hayao Miyazaki or any popular and talented filmmaker. Disney was one of a kind. No one can ever top him. And with him gone, Disney will NEVER be the same. Its something that fans must accept. But as we have seen, Disney has done well by itself, even with a whole crew of people.

Besides, Disney itself betrayed its beliefs long before Lasseter entered the spotlight. Remember the sequels?
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