Okay so this is probably going to be really long, boring, and repetitive. But it's late so whatever. I just wanted to explain what I meant.
Sotiris wrote:
While I definitely agree that there're more pressing matters that tantalize the LGBT community than another conservative millionaire opposing same-sex marriage, that does not mean that a major corporation which openly opposes LGBT rights must be left without any protest.
Totally. I agree that people have a reason to protest Chick-fil-A. But I think it’s ridiculous that this gets all the media attention instead of something like the lesbian woman who had slurs carved into her body or the CeCe thing. Why isn’t anybody protesting the fact that CeCe is in a men’s prison, where she has to be kept in isolation to keep her from being sexually harassed by the other inmates? Why is nobody yelling about how we live in a country (i’m focusing on America, because I think chick fil a is an american thing?) where gay people obviously aren’t safe in their
own home. When people start vocalizing that this is not okay,
then they can talk about chicken. I’m going to fight for the people in trouble right now, rather than worry about another rich guy wanting to keep marriage between a man and a woman.
Sotiris wrote:While it would be a blessing if more important matters got the exposure and outrage they deserved, that does not negate the fact that people have a legitimate reason to protest and boycott Chick-fil-A.
But that’s the heart of it. Why don’t these things get the exposure and outrage they deserve? My real issue is that Chick-fil-A is getting way too much media and public attention. Attention that should belong to the queer people who have recently been attacked. People need to know about the horrible things going on, and vocalize their anger about it before anything is going to change. I'm not saying that the chick fil a issue isn't real and shouldn't get any attention, just that it should get less. I'm saying these *radical* gays/allies would do so much more good if they spent less time taking pictures while kissing in front of chick fil a (although i do agree, that kind of protest can be really effective) and focus on more pressing issues.
Sotiris wrote:I don't agree with Duster at all. Is he so enamored with their chicken sandwiches that he cannot live without them? Aren't there any other fast food places he could go instead? No one is expecting him to go out and protest in front of the restaurant but the least he could do is choose some other fast food place to frequent. There's really no excuse. While there are other organizations or corporations which have an anti-gay agenda and we may not know about, you at least have the benefit of ignorance there. To knowingly support these organizations is disgraceful. It's not a matter of the amount of money you will spend there, it's the principle of the thing.
I was mostly agreeing with duster on the fact that it isn’t as big a deal as people are making it. He seemed to be the only person who wasn't making it a big deal, hence me "kind of" agreeing with him. But I do agree with you that yeah, if you support gay/queer people, you shouldn’t eat somewhere that obviously made their stance clear. I wouldn’t feel right doing that even if I ate chicken.
Just don’t eat there. Make a list of companies that support anti-gay corporations, or just practice bad business that you don't agree with in general, and don’t eat there. Being a informed consumer is important. That's all there is here. I just don't think it should have developed its own huge movement. CeCe McDonald deserves her own movement. Charlie Rogers (the lesbian victim of the hate crime previously mentioned) deserves her own movement. By the way, after this this attack happened people claimed that the attack was staged. After all this woman just experienced, she was also called a liar. These women need movements. Not a fast food chain who is mostly attempting to fight against gay marriage.
Sotiris wrote:And you consider that trivial? The language used is of utmost importance. By denying that homosexuality is an "international human right" you remove any grounds for a legitimate opposition.
No. I consider that trivial in comparison to what people think they did. Again, I totally realize what they are doing is horrible, and I totally understand that the language used is really important. And this would have been the most damaging thing that Chick-fil-A has done, if it had succeeded. So I totally agree with you there.
But again, most of their money went to marriage sanctity organizations, and it just annoys me that that is all the gay community cares about. When we get equal marriage, are we all going to go home happy and stop fighting to end the oppression of queer people? I am really afraid of that happening, because that means all the queer people will still be getting attacked, the trans people unable to get adequate health care, jobs, and so on. A lot of gay people seem to think marriage is our biggest concern.. and for me, it’s barely an issue. I mean, I don’t even think the state should be involved in marriage in the first place, but that is a different argument. I care more about people’s safety and right to live a life without fear than marriage, at the moment.
Lazario wrote:I'll give you that many people are only adding their voices to this issue because they're selfish and just expect the right to marry without fighting for it and suffering for it.
I think Lazario helped me realize a reason why all the outcry about chick fil a irks me. I feel like that really is true for a lot of the people speaking out, and if it is, there is no way the fight for rights and safety will continue after we get the right to marry. I've seen people who think the fight is already won! It's just what i'm afraid of. People walking away, leaving the people who are in trouble out in the cold.
Lazario wrote:But even then... what do you think the fight over this issue really represents? Do you assume nobody who could become angry over this issue has any grasp on what's actually at stake?
No. I do think a lot of them probably don't, but no. The issue here it I don't think there is as much at stake as everybody else seems to. I know there is a lot at stake, but just imagine if all this energy went into blasting the stories of violence against gay/queer people that happens all the time. Imagine if we made our voice loud enough to make people see how some of us have to live in fear of our lives. Don't you think that will change more than trying to take a little money away from chick fil a? Even if you don't agree with the "gay lifestyle" I think most people will agree that nobody deserves to live in fear like that.
Lazario wrote: It's not that good an idea: intending to place something important into perspective by criticizing the people on your side. You can't get to a north destination by going west.
I know it's not about chicken to anyone (err, most people). But I made that comparison (and I think i made it again in this response) to express how unimportant I think this issue is in comparison to the real issue. It was a slight criticism, yes. I was just poking fun at the fact that it is such a huge event, for such a tiny issue (when put in perspective). It was also a way of expressing anger for the fact that the important issues are being ignored. Was it really that offensive?
Sotiris wrote:Personally, I think that if they could get away with it, these anti-gay groups would openly support that as well. Their hatred has no bounds. A lot of them do, hence the increased number of hate crimes.
That's probably true. But I really don't know what to say about this, because there isn't much to say.