That why I have stayed out of this thread for wile.Escapay wrote:I think it's safe to say that option is doing very little for the "campaign" beyond being a frustration for members to see this topic always on the first page with nothing new in terms of actual news about the Treasures. It's very disheartening to check on this thread only to find it's the same two or three people posting the same-old same-old, because nothing ever HAPPENS in it beyond "here's a list of material they should release" re-written and re-worded every so often. I've heard of squeakiest wheels getting the grease, but this thread has become rather a joke now (IMO). Bumping this up every couple days will likely do very little unless Bob Iger himself is a regular forum lurker and we don't know it. And even then, he'd see that it's the same few people chatting without any real "update" or plan of action. Sure, addresses and names of executives are posted, but based on the posts, nothing seems to be done with them, most feel letter-writing isn't effective (even though it's much more effective than online petitions, e-mails, and near-useless thread-bumping). The same few people waxing nostalgic about Walt Disney's work is certainly not enough for the company to justify the expense of continuing the series when you've got dozens more on the forum alone who'll likely spend more time talking about what color Rapunzel's shoes should be when she kicks Flynn Rider's ass.On February 10, merlinjones wrote:>>Well enough talking about it....lets do it. How do we start this campeign? Lets get it started!<<
To start with, let's try to keep this thread at the top until a new Treasures wave is announced - - no matter how long that takes.
albert
I think we may need to save the Treasures series
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>>The same few people waxing nostalgic about Walt Disney's work is certainly not enough for the company to justify the expense of continuing the series when you've got dozens more on the forum alone who'll likely spend more time talking about what color Rapunzel's shoes should be when she kicks Flynn Rider's ass.<<
Selling out 30,000 - 150,000 copies of Walt Disney's works at $25. - $59. price points without the aid of any advertising or shelf space in the mainstream marketplace is hardly a minor block of consumers to ignore - - especially in this economy. Most media companies would love to have such a dedicated following of film buffs who seek out the material on their own.
So just as Universal should keep releasing Alfred Hitchcock's library and Warner Bros should keep releasing the Looney Tunes -- we want more Walt and are more than happy to keep the spotlight shining on the issue rain or shine!
Selling out 30,000 - 150,000 copies of Walt Disney's works at $25. - $59. price points without the aid of any advertising or shelf space in the mainstream marketplace is hardly a minor block of consumers to ignore - - especially in this economy. Most media companies would love to have such a dedicated following of film buffs who seek out the material on their own.
So just as Universal should keep releasing Alfred Hitchcock's library and Warner Bros should keep releasing the Looney Tunes -- we want more Walt and are more than happy to keep the spotlight shining on the issue rain or shine!
^To let you know, Hitchcock sells more than the treasures...but a LARGE margin. Plus the cost to release those movies are ultra cheap compared to the Treasure lines.
When you say 30k, you are talking about every copy. A huge chunk of those numbers in the last 2 series have been people buying them to sell later. Even then, there are many places with Zorro and Anette still for sale. If you took real sales, you would see more of the 25k range, which is an ultra small group.
When you say 30k, you are talking about every copy. A huge chunk of those numbers in the last 2 series have been people buying them to sell later. Even then, there are many places with Zorro and Anette still for sale. If you took real sales, you would see more of the 25k range, which is an ultra small group.
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Well, whatever the numbers, the prevailing online evidence (Amazon, ebay, etc.) is that these titles (Dr. Syn, Donald, Zorro etc) have sold out and are commanding solid price increases in the secondary market only a few months after their release (and in the case of Zorro, that's two volumes at double the usual premium price point) -- which leads one to deduce that even more could have been sold. Consumers can hardly be blamed for not knowing these even exist or where to find leftover copies from purposefully small runs. Clearly any returns from obscure retailers could still be sold on Amazon at full retail price.
Not to mention that it would seem logical that digital masters and legal clearances for these long-ago paid for films needs to be done anyway for archiving and future online and TV use. It's not like the remaining Walt Disney assets can be left forgotten only to rot away forever... (or is that what you are suggesting?).
As stated prior, DVD on demand ala Amazon, Warner Bros./TCM and Universal is another way to go to control costs with vintage material.
Not to mention that it would seem logical that digital masters and legal clearances for these long-ago paid for films needs to be done anyway for archiving and future online and TV use. It's not like the remaining Walt Disney assets can be left forgotten only to rot away forever... (or is that what you are suggesting?).
As stated prior, DVD on demand ala Amazon, Warner Bros./TCM and Universal is another way to go to control costs with vintage material.
^ Try putting a set of Zorro on there for the lowest amount and watch the price come down. It really is nothing more than price gouging to punish those who did not buy before the scalpers did.
My argument is not that they should rot, but that the treasures lines is not where many of these series belong. Disney has proved can throw out awful DVD releases like Blackbeard's Ghost and make a profit off it. Why put forth the sheer amount of effort on a line that will make less money than just putting out a basic DVD? The old line of "because Walt..." doesn't work anymore as times will never be that way again.
I do agree 100% I'd love to see either digital or DVD on demand for some of the titles. I'd be happy to subscribe to a site that Disney puts old TV episodes and movies on. I really do hope that is a method where past treasures get re-released.
My argument is not that they should rot, but that the treasures lines is not where many of these series belong. Disney has proved can throw out awful DVD releases like Blackbeard's Ghost and make a profit off it. Why put forth the sheer amount of effort on a line that will make less money than just putting out a basic DVD? The old line of "because Walt..." doesn't work anymore as times will never be that way again.
I do agree 100% I'd love to see either digital or DVD on demand for some of the titles. I'd be happy to subscribe to a site that Disney puts old TV episodes and movies on. I really do hope that is a method where past treasures get re-released.
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Well, Iger said the company has to relieve itself of the baggage of tradition, or something of that caliber. What I take that to mean is that to put these old things out there is, to them, to dwell in the past. And we all know how Disney is allergic to the past.pvdfan wrote: I do agree 100% I'd love to see either digital or DVD on demand for some of the titles. I'd be happy to subscribe to a site that Disney puts old TV episodes and movies on. I really do hope that is a method where past treasures get re-released.
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>>^I agree they would, but for the company it would be cheaper to go the digital route. With this being a corporation, cheap = better.<<
DVD-R on demand IS cheap -- And acceptable download technology will not be adopted any time soon. Simply dumping digital files on a disc is hardly too much effort or expense if even Universal can do it with far more obscure titles.
The longer we wait, the more Walt's films and dreams will fade away.
But - - Perhaps that's the whole idea.
DVD-R on demand IS cheap -- And acceptable download technology will not be adopted any time soon. Simply dumping digital files on a disc is hardly too much effort or expense if even Universal can do it with far more obscure titles.
The longer we wait, the more Walt's films and dreams will fade away.
But - - Perhaps that's the whole idea.
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>>^The DVD-R's are crap DVD's at an ultra high price. $20-$25 for a DVD that has not been cleaned up and no bonus features is beyond a rip-off.<<
More like $15. on Amazon for Universal titles like "The Chalk Garden" (Hayley Mills) and "40 Pounds of Trouble" (Suzanne Pleshette). Very nice telecine, proper aspect ratio --- and a good deal I thought for titles that have not been offered since the VHS era and we have no other recourse for home viewing - - I'd pay similarly for MIA Walt Disney films and TV programs from the same era like "The Prince and the Pauper", "Sammy the Way Out Seal", "Escapade in Florence" or "An Adventure in Color."
These DVD-R on demand titles provide a hard copy to view whenever you desire - - and they are available now, not in some theoretical future that may never come to pass.
Mind you, I'd rather have official retail quality DVDs or Walt Disney Treasures sets, but you were arguing against those as well...
More like $15. on Amazon for Universal titles like "The Chalk Garden" (Hayley Mills) and "40 Pounds of Trouble" (Suzanne Pleshette). Very nice telecine, proper aspect ratio --- and a good deal I thought for titles that have not been offered since the VHS era and we have no other recourse for home viewing - - I'd pay similarly for MIA Walt Disney films and TV programs from the same era like "The Prince and the Pauper", "Sammy the Way Out Seal", "Escapade in Florence" or "An Adventure in Color."
These DVD-R on demand titles provide a hard copy to view whenever you desire - - and they are available now, not in some theoretical future that may never come to pass.
Mind you, I'd rather have official retail quality DVDs or Walt Disney Treasures sets, but you were arguing against those as well...
Last edited by merlinjones on Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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>>I also stand by that most DVD-R are crap. Of the WB ones I've seen, they are a rip-off at $10, let alone $20ish.<<
Since you don't want these kinds of movies anyway, why do you care how they come out, so long as they do for those who want them?
pvdfan, I have to chuckle - - In all my travels, I've never ever met a genre "fan" that hung out on a dedicated website to argue passionately >>against<< the release of classic films and TV shows in every possible format as a champion for the bottom-line! Usually making studio materials available for all to see and rediscover is what binds geeks of all stripes together - - After all, one man's trash is another man's treasure!
Since you don't want these kinds of movies anyway, why do you care how they come out, so long as they do for those who want them?
pvdfan, I have to chuckle - - In all my travels, I've never ever met a genre "fan" that hung out on a dedicated website to argue passionately >>against<< the release of classic films and TV shows in every possible format as a champion for the bottom-line! Usually making studio materials available for all to see and rediscover is what binds geeks of all stripes together - - After all, one man's trash is another man's treasure!

^You are wrong in me not wanting them out. I'm also being realistic. Do you honestly think Disney would ever do a burn on-demand program? The treasures program was not making enough money to justify it. You can quote 30k fans(aka copies sold) or say "in this economy" but the bottom line is there is not enough money to be made. The fact that they are giving away "Your Host, Walt Disney" sets on DMR is evidence to that.
As every year goes by, there are less and less people that care about non-animated Disney stuff. Sure, there are titles that will always sell like The Love Bug or Mary Poppins. That's not to say there is not a dedicated group (aka people on this board) that would love to see the titles out. Heck, I'd love to see the old DisneyLand shows or many of the "People and Places"(I think that is the name) series. But to the general public, the stuff is just "old" and not worth their time. So unless they can get the titles out A) for ultra cheap B) make a large profit and C) meet Disney quality standards, the stuff will never see the light of day.
As every year goes by, there are less and less people that care about non-animated Disney stuff. Sure, there are titles that will always sell like The Love Bug or Mary Poppins. That's not to say there is not a dedicated group (aka people on this board) that would love to see the titles out. Heck, I'd love to see the old DisneyLand shows or many of the "People and Places"(I think that is the name) series. But to the general public, the stuff is just "old" and not worth their time. So unless they can get the titles out A) for ultra cheap B) make a large profit and C) meet Disney quality standards, the stuff will never see the light of day.
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I'm not pvdfan, but I agree with most of what he's said. And to answer the question from my point of view, it matters how any product comes out because if any studio is going to release a product to the consumer, it should be done right. Both extremes that are being presented (burn-on-demand DVD-Rs or limited-quantity Walt Disney Treasures) has more "losers" than "winners" when it comes to customer satisfaction.merlinjones wrote:>>I also stand by that most DVD-R are crap. Of the WB ones I've seen, they are a rip-off at $10, let alone $20ish.<<
Since you don't want these kinds of movies anyway, why do you care how they come out, so long as they do for those who want them?
I don't want not-so-cheap DVD-R's with no remastering or extras, and that's more or less what the Warner Archive and other studios' programs are doing. While it does open the floodgates regarding material that is finally available, at the same time, it's simply throwing a bone towards those that want them. It's a subtle way of saying, "We really don't care about these, but since you do, we'll make it available in a quality less than what you expect and charge you more than you should pay."
At the same time, I don't want well-produced DVDs that are produced in such limited quantities that you have to buy it on the first day/week, lest scalpers buy up the rest in hordes simply to sell at five times the SRP a year later. I don't like reading on the forums whenever people who *did* get them subtly say "haha, we got it, you missed out!" to others who don't. As if bragging rights suddenly makes "More Silly Symphonies" more valuable than it already is.
There should exist a happy medium that does not screw over consumers and still pays respect to the product. The problem with the Treasures was that from the get-go it was made in limited quantities, thus creating artificial scarcity as scalpers and collectors realized they can hold on to a product that they sometimes don't really care for, in order to make more money for themselves by selling it to someone who genuinely wants it some time later.
This is why I wish the "Walt Disney Legacy Collection" didn't get canceled after the first wave. They were intended to be evergreens that would always be available, unlike the Treasures sets. Instead, so many goddamn Treasures fanatics were pissed off that their Treasures were being "canceled" so that the "Walt Disney Legacy Collection" could take its place, that Disney canceled the Legacy Collection and continued on with the Treasures, even though the Legacy Collection could have existed as a suitable (and always in-print) successor.
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AwallaceUNC: Would you prefer Substi-Blu-tiary Locomotion?

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TheSequelOfDisney: Damn, did Lin-Manuel Miranda go and murder all your families?
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>>There should exist a happy medium that does not screw over consumers and still pays respect to the product. <<
Agreed. Whatever the line is called and whatever the quantities are, the rest of Walt Disney's historic and delightful library of character animation, films and TV shows should be released to the public on DVD!
...Which, in the Disney tradition is a good cue for the following post "reissue" for thread latecomers:
>>It couldn't hurt to remind the rights holders how much Walt Disney enthusiasts care about the Walt Disney Treasures line, and that there are many viable titles still to be released (particularly those featuring prominent animated characters and concepts), such as:
1. Song of the South (plus The Joel Chandler Harris Story, Trailers, promos, TV spots, Soundtrack, outtakes, artwork, etc.)
2. Ludwig Von Drake (18 episodes of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color)
3. Ranger Woodlore and Humphrey Bear (all shorts plus 4 hour WWoC shows)
4. Jiminy Cricket (all educational shorts, MMC shorts, plus all 6 Jiminy hosted hour shows)
5. Chip an' Dale (all shorts, plus Walt Disney Presents hour show)
6. The Magic Mirror (all 6 TV hours hosted by Magic Mirror, including Walt's first two TV specials)
7. Disneyland Volume 3 (all remaining TV hours about the park including From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow and Disneyland Showtime!)
8. Mickey, Donald and Goofy on TV (TV hours featuring all the standard characters in original animation bridges, often interacting with Walt)
9. Rarities 2 (with remaining animated shorts and featurettes that the Treasures series has missed like It's Tough to Be a Bird And Susie the Little Blue Coupe)
Not to mention all the other great Walt material still in the library:
10. The Swamp Fox (all 8 episodes)
11. The Prince and the Pauper (all 3 Wonderful World of Color episodes plus the theatrical version)
12. Disneyland: Films From Park Attractions (America the Beautiful, Mouseketeer 3-D Jamboree, Story of Oil etc)
13. Annette 2 (Horsemasters, Escapade in Florence, music sequences)
14. Kurt Russell (TV movies and featurettes like Willie and the Yank, Secret of Boyne Castle, Disneyland Showtime and Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?)
15. Best of Disneyland Series Season Sets
16. Best of Walt Disney Presents Series Season Sets
17. Best of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color Season Sets
18. Best of The Mickey Mouse Club
19. Moochie (Moochie of the Little League, Moochie of Pop Warner Football, Mooncussers, Johnny Shiloh)
20. Spin and Marty 2 and 3 (With Annette, Darlene and Moochie)
21. The Hardy Boys 2
22. Corky and White Shadow (Darlene)
23. People and Places
24. The Fabulous 40's (uncut versions of all the 1940's animated package features)
25. Animal Stories (best of the TV hours like Sammy, the Way Out Seal)
26. The Mouse Factory - Complete Series
27. Disney Family Album - Complete Series
28. A Walt Disney Christmas
29. A Walt Disney Halloween
...And that doesn't even account for all the lesser known TV limited series and TV movies like Elfego Baca, Texas John Slaughter, Kilroy, Gallegher, et al -- and additional MMC serials like Clint and Mac.
Walt Disney Home Entertainment
Senior Vice President Worldwide Operations: William (Bill) Segil
Executive Vice President Worldwide Marketing, Creative Content, and Business Development: Gordon K. Ho
Executive Vice President Worldwide Sales, Distribution, and Trade Marketing: Patrick (Pat) Fitzgerald
The Walt Disney Company
President, CEO, and Director: Robert A. (Bob) Iger
Chairman The Walt Disney Studios Rich Ross
Chief Creative Officer Walt Disney Animation John Lasseter
The Walt Disney Company/Walt Disney Home Entertainment
500 S. Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521<<
Agreed. Whatever the line is called and whatever the quantities are, the rest of Walt Disney's historic and delightful library of character animation, films and TV shows should be released to the public on DVD!
...Which, in the Disney tradition is a good cue for the following post "reissue" for thread latecomers:
>>It couldn't hurt to remind the rights holders how much Walt Disney enthusiasts care about the Walt Disney Treasures line, and that there are many viable titles still to be released (particularly those featuring prominent animated characters and concepts), such as:
1. Song of the South (plus The Joel Chandler Harris Story, Trailers, promos, TV spots, Soundtrack, outtakes, artwork, etc.)
2. Ludwig Von Drake (18 episodes of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color)
3. Ranger Woodlore and Humphrey Bear (all shorts plus 4 hour WWoC shows)
4. Jiminy Cricket (all educational shorts, MMC shorts, plus all 6 Jiminy hosted hour shows)
5. Chip an' Dale (all shorts, plus Walt Disney Presents hour show)
6. The Magic Mirror (all 6 TV hours hosted by Magic Mirror, including Walt's first two TV specials)
7. Disneyland Volume 3 (all remaining TV hours about the park including From the Pirates of the Caribbean to the World of Tomorrow and Disneyland Showtime!)
8. Mickey, Donald and Goofy on TV (TV hours featuring all the standard characters in original animation bridges, often interacting with Walt)
9. Rarities 2 (with remaining animated shorts and featurettes that the Treasures series has missed like It's Tough to Be a Bird And Susie the Little Blue Coupe)
Not to mention all the other great Walt material still in the library:
10. The Swamp Fox (all 8 episodes)
11. The Prince and the Pauper (all 3 Wonderful World of Color episodes plus the theatrical version)
12. Disneyland: Films From Park Attractions (America the Beautiful, Mouseketeer 3-D Jamboree, Story of Oil etc)
13. Annette 2 (Horsemasters, Escapade in Florence, music sequences)
14. Kurt Russell (TV movies and featurettes like Willie and the Yank, Secret of Boyne Castle, Disneyland Showtime and Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?)
15. Best of Disneyland Series Season Sets
16. Best of Walt Disney Presents Series Season Sets
17. Best of Walt Disney's Wonderful World of Color Season Sets
18. Best of The Mickey Mouse Club
19. Moochie (Moochie of the Little League, Moochie of Pop Warner Football, Mooncussers, Johnny Shiloh)
20. Spin and Marty 2 and 3 (With Annette, Darlene and Moochie)
21. The Hardy Boys 2
22. Corky and White Shadow (Darlene)
23. People and Places
24. The Fabulous 40's (uncut versions of all the 1940's animated package features)
25. Animal Stories (best of the TV hours like Sammy, the Way Out Seal)
26. The Mouse Factory - Complete Series
27. Disney Family Album - Complete Series
28. A Walt Disney Christmas
29. A Walt Disney Halloween
...And that doesn't even account for all the lesser known TV limited series and TV movies like Elfego Baca, Texas John Slaughter, Kilroy, Gallegher, et al -- and additional MMC serials like Clint and Mac.
Walt Disney Home Entertainment
Senior Vice President Worldwide Operations: William (Bill) Segil
Executive Vice President Worldwide Marketing, Creative Content, and Business Development: Gordon K. Ho
Executive Vice President Worldwide Sales, Distribution, and Trade Marketing: Patrick (Pat) Fitzgerald
The Walt Disney Company
President, CEO, and Director: Robert A. (Bob) Iger
Chairman The Walt Disney Studios Rich Ross
Chief Creative Officer Walt Disney Animation John Lasseter
The Walt Disney Company/Walt Disney Home Entertainment
500 S. Buena Vista St.
Burbank, CA 91521<<
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In all honesty I didn't care about the live-action stuff from the beginning. I would have perfered if WDT to be only animated series unlimited.pvdfan wrote:^You are wrong in me not wanting them out. I'm also being realistic. Do you honestly think Disney would ever do a burn on-demand program? The treasures program was not making enough money to justify it. You can quote 30k fans(aka copies sold) or say "in this economy" but the bottom line is there is not enough money to be made. The fact that they are giving away "Your Host, Walt Disney" sets on DMR is evidence to that.
As every year goes by, there are less and less people that care about non-animated Disney stuff. Sure, there are titles that will always sell like The Love Bug or Mary Poppins. That's not to say there is not a dedicated group (aka people on this board) that would love to see the titles out. Heck, I'd love to see the old DisneyLand shows or many of the "People and Places"(I think that is the name) series. But to the general public, the stuff is just "old" and not worth their time. So unless they can get the titles out A) for ultra cheap B) make a large profit and C) meet Disney quality standards, the stuff will never see the light of day.
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>>As every year goes by, there are less and less people that care about non-animated Disney stuff.<<
And yet, you passionately argue against the release of the remaining classic Walt Disney era animation titles too, like Ludwig VonDrake, Chip an' Dale, Jiminy Cricket, Ranger Woodlore, Donald on TV, The Magic Mirror and Rarities 2, -- or another set of Disneyland park related shows -- or Walt Disney Christmas or Halloween compilations -- or Song of the South. All Walt Disney animation and Disneyland park titles have a consistent following with plenty of folks that are still interested - - you can hardly argue that point, regardless of your opinions of Walt's live-action. Why not focus on releasing those titles to be positive (in the Walt Disney spirit)?
I can only assume that you just want to wish away all the Walt "old stuff," regardless of its content. Don't worry - - selling Walt Disney classics won't stop you from getting the next teen musical or CGI sequel - - you don't have to buy the real Walt Disney cartoons if you don't want to. But many do.
And yet, you passionately argue against the release of the remaining classic Walt Disney era animation titles too, like Ludwig VonDrake, Chip an' Dale, Jiminy Cricket, Ranger Woodlore, Donald on TV, The Magic Mirror and Rarities 2, -- or another set of Disneyland park related shows -- or Walt Disney Christmas or Halloween compilations -- or Song of the South. All Walt Disney animation and Disneyland park titles have a consistent following with plenty of folks that are still interested - - you can hardly argue that point, regardless of your opinions of Walt's live-action. Why not focus on releasing those titles to be positive (in the Walt Disney spirit)?
I can only assume that you just want to wish away all the Walt "old stuff," regardless of its content. Don't worry - - selling Walt Disney classics won't stop you from getting the next teen musical or CGI sequel - - you don't have to buy the real Walt Disney cartoons if you don't want to. But many do.
^When you make an argument, you can not change what a person says to fit your argument. I said and I quote "You are wrong in me not wanting them out." So please learn to read before quoting what is convent to you.
What happens if this line does die? People will throw a fit online saying "how can they do that" or "but there is massive demand" when there is not. I am arguing when it is simply foolish to think there is some massive demand for 1930's non-fab 5 cartoons or a 1979 Halloween show. Last time I checked there was not a letter writing campaign or massive protest in the 13 years DVD has been out to get Ranger Woodlore or Ludwig Von Drake out. The general public, the ones who matter over huge fans (which is what members here are), just do not care enough. The only exception is Song of the South, which has not came out for logical reasons.
The end of the day, Disney is a for-profit company. It was when Walt was alive, was during Eisner's reign and is today. Remembering that leads to understanding why most lesser known classic stuff for Disney (and every other company) has never been released. If there is not a large enough profit to justify putting resources to it if making something new that will make more money, why do it? History means nothing when you are competing against thousands of other forms of entertainment for Joe Doe's entertainment money.
What happens if this line does die? People will throw a fit online saying "how can they do that" or "but there is massive demand" when there is not. I am arguing when it is simply foolish to think there is some massive demand for 1930's non-fab 5 cartoons or a 1979 Halloween show. Last time I checked there was not a letter writing campaign or massive protest in the 13 years DVD has been out to get Ranger Woodlore or Ludwig Von Drake out. The general public, the ones who matter over huge fans (which is what members here are), just do not care enough. The only exception is Song of the South, which has not came out for logical reasons.
The end of the day, Disney is a for-profit company. It was when Walt was alive, was during Eisner's reign and is today. Remembering that leads to understanding why most lesser known classic stuff for Disney (and every other company) has never been released. If there is not a large enough profit to justify putting resources to it if making something new that will make more money, why do it? History means nothing when you are competing against thousands of other forms of entertainment for Joe Doe's entertainment money.