The Little Mermaid:Ariel's Beginning Discussion Thread Vol.3

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Atlantis
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Post by Atlantis »

Siren wrote:Anyone else find it weird people who upload/download the movie get attacked but people who upload the music are the coolest thing since sliced bread? Double standard much?
Are they going to release a soundtrack for this movie?

But I for one could care less if someone downloads something, just as long as they have the intention to go out and buy the actual product.
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Post by pap64 »

Vermin Friends wrote:
:roll: Whatever. I tried, and you won't listen so I'm not even going to bother with you anymore.
That's what I do whenever I see an argument that just won't end. :roll: :lol:

Anyways, thinking about the movie...Would you guys agree that it would have been better had it NOT been about the Little Mermaid?

OK, here's what I am getting at.

The general agreement is that the story itself is quite good, but doesn't do anything with the series' continuity and development. What if the general and basic idea of the plot (The ruler of the kingdom has banned music due to personal grief and his daughter sets out to rediscover the magic) took place in a whole new world (yes, pun is intended)?

Take for example...I don't know...The Kingdom of Andalasia from "Enchanted". In a time long before the events in the movie another ruler suffered a tragic loss and bans music. That kingdom's princess discovers what its like to feel alive and through her journey she touches many hearts, including her father's.

See? Since the characters have no continuity issues you can go wild with their stories.

The LM's world has already been explored and developed. AB tries to expand it without recognizing that anything it says can affect and conflict with what is already established (such as Flounder being a timid coward and Triton already an arrogant tyrant).

So the overall storyline could have been better realized and reached more fans had it taken place in a world where a continuity and series of events isn't established.
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Post by Poody »

Vermin Friends wrote: That's because a soundtrack wasn't released. The movie was.
Amen!
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Post by Vermin Friends »

pap64, I completely understand where you're going, and never really thought of it that way. I think that's why plot-wise, TLM2 does better, since the characters were being developed in future events, rather than being pieced together to fit into the past.

However, the plot has been done before, I read on an Amazon.com review that it is suspiciously similar to Footloose, so... yeah- the plot is strong but like you said, the way they reworked the characters to fit into TLM3... it just doesn't work (for fans of the original at least- I'm glad that TLM3 worked out so well for your friend's siblings, atlanticaunderthesea! :))

Also, I recall hearing someone saying that Ariel knows the term "cork screw" but in her grotto calls them "thingamabobs". I think I can let this go. Think about it. When Flounder shouted it, she just copied what he did. Then when she told him to do it, she might have just been referring to what he did when he shouted it. As far as Ariel knows, "cork screw" is a verb, meaning to twirl around, whereas a "thingamabob" is a human thing that Scuttle told her about (most likely).
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Post by bradhig »

ugh I tortured myself tonight by watching TLM III. A Dalek showed up and unloaded on it like crazy. Don't know how many times I heard EXTERMINATE. Why did Ttiton use his Trident to smash the ship that captures his wife? What a loser. No explaimation of the fate of Ariel's mother just that she got captured but did she die??
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Post by slave2moonlight »

xxhplinkxx wrote:
Yeah, I thought the exact same thing when I saw that deleted scene.

And I'd love to read that essay you wrote!!
Wrote it early in college, so it couldn't have been that good, ha. Don't have it anymore though.
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Post by Vermin Friends »

bradhig wrote:ugh I tortured myself tonight by watching TLM III. A Dalek showed up and unloaded on it like crazy. Don't know how many times I heard EXTERMINATE. Why did Ttiton use his Trident to smash the ship that captures his wife? What a loser. No explaimation of the fate of Ariel's mother just that she got captured but did she die??
A Dalek? What are you talking about?

I think the reason why Triton didn't use his trident was because he was almost like a pacifist- ruling "with a fair hand". They didn't do anything wrong to deserve death, I don't believe Athena's death on purpose. She didn't get captured, it was visually implied that she got crushed when the ship smashed into the rocks.
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Post by Disney Villain »

You are all very, very welcome. It’s the least I could do, after people posted video clips and images, put things on youtube, and always kept me informed. I was very grateful for everything that has been discussed here, so this is my way of giving back. Besides, someone was going to do it eventually. I just decided that I couldn’t wait anymore so I did it.

Siren, I have no intention of starting a fight, but I think you miss the point. Is it technically legal to rip the songs? Of course it isn’t. However Disney never released the soundtrack, they did release the movie. If Disney ever decided to release a proper soundtrack for this film I would gladly remove the track I uploaded. Besides, we would all buy the soundtrack if Disney released it. I would never download any movie online illegally (like you have admitted). I consider that wrong, even if I did buy the film once it was released. I ripped these tracks because I was trying to be nice since Disney did not release the soundtrack. I understand where you’re coming from, but I think it was foolish. I am trying to do something nice, nothing more. If Disney ever releases a soundtrack I will happily remove all the tracks. I have no intention of starting an argument. To me it makes sense for people to be up in arms when someone illegally downloads a film. This is a different situation.
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Post by Disney Villain »

This is going to be a LONG post….

Well I’ve seen Ariel’s Beginning ten times now and I think it’s a great film. We all have our favorite characters and our favorite films. Because of this we sometimes are biased, and do not like when others disagree with us. That is understandable. The point is however, that everyone is entitled to their opinions and have their reasons for supporting their claims. No one has the right to argue because someone does not agree with them. That seems to be the biggest problem in this thread between everyone.

Before I review this film I just want to lay a few things out for everyone from a Disney Marketing prospective: First, Ariel is one of the most popular and well known Disney characters (In my opinion only second to Mickey Mouse). No matter where you go people know who Ariel is and they know she’s Disney. Besides Mickey, no other character is that popular. Not only is Ariel popular, so is her franchise, known to us as “Disney Princess”. The Disney Princess franchise is the most successful and most popular franchise Disney, or any other company for that matter, has. It draws in billions and billions of dollars a year. Parents and small children (and us) love the princesses (for the most part). What children sometimes dislike are the princesses’ original films. I have a lot of younger cousins, all but two are girls. I’ve seen how Disney’s marketing has affected their lives. They will not watch Sleeping Beauty because Maleficent scares them; they skip over the Ursula scenes in The Little Mermaid. A lot of children do this. Now Disney realizes this, and they also realize the popularity of characters like Aurora and Ariel. So one day in the Disney conference room everyone was sitting around and decided to make a new Ariel film. They wanted to make a nice film that taught lessons, had heart, and was not scary. This meant ditching Ursula. I assure you that no one thought of the true Disney fans, because in all honesty we are going to purchase the film regardless. Disney knows this.

Who really cares that Ariel’s Beginning doesn’t do the original justice. In all honesty it wasn’t created to. What about the true Disney fans you ask? Well believe it or not Disney actually does do things for us. They actually just went through the pain staking process of restoring some of our classic films to HD, digging in the vault for rare and exclusive footage, recording new interviews, and using a technology to its fullest so that the true fans get what they deserve. Disney is a huge corporation and they have a lot of different audiences to cater to. Like it or not Ariel’s Beginning (or Cinderella III for that matter) was not meant to cater to the true Disney fans. We can like the film, and we can also dislike the film- in the end its our decision. The upcoming Blu-Ray releases of Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, Pinocchio, Fantasia, and Beauty and the Beast do cater to us Disney fans. Do we have every right to be upset over Ariel’s Beginning? Yes we do, but please understand where the company is most likely coming from. I hope this made sense. Obviously I am NOT connected to The Walt Disney Company so I cannot speak for them, but I’m trying to put things into perspective.

I thought Ariel’s Beginning was a very nice film. It had a lot of emotion, which I feel recent Disney films have lost, and its animation was wonderful. That is my opinion. Yes there were times when Ariel was off- model, but it happened so quickly you could not really notice. Besides, have you seen the original film? If you have you’ll see that Ariel goes off-model quite often. The songs were okay, they were well written and showed emotion. The only song I disliked was Marina’s. I guess I was looking for a more wicked Villain song. The score was beautiful; simply stunning. I usually don’t say that about DTV’s, Cinderella III and Return to Neverland being my only exceptions.

I watched the film with my 16 year old sister (I’ll be 19 on Sunday btw). She is a Disney fan as well and was looking forward to learning about Ursula. We really did not have any problems with the film, and I even think it flows into the original. This film takes place an entire year before the original, and the events of this film only took a few days to occur. A lot can happen in a year. I really don’t think Flounder had a change in personality. Both my sister and I think flounder was brave up until he faced the eels and marina. That event led to him always being afraid. We also got a deeper understanding of King Trition and why he always favored Ariel. I thought the movie carried a lot of emotion, the most of any DTV release. Ariel’s new found freedom most likely led to start exploring and she eventually became interested in humans. What does bother me is the new characters from the Catfish Club that are Sebastian’s band. It makes no sense that they are just dropped after this film. Perhaps during the year they went their separate ways. However it bothers me that this film created new characters who obviously have no connection to the original film. This film should not have been called “Ariel’s Beginning”, that word, “beginning” is very misleading. This is more like an adventure that occurred before the first film not Ariel’s entire back story, like the title implies.

My favorite character was, of course, the villainess Marina Del Ray. She was hysterical, and stole a lot of the show. I think there was the implication that Ursula and Marina had something to do with each other. Especially because of the electric eels; that could not have been a coincidence. I truly believe that Ursula and Marina may be one in the same or share a back story. Ursula could have easily fit into Marina’s role. Everything about Marina was so Ursula. There was definitely a past implied. And because of this I was satisfied with the film. They did not explain Ursula, but they did leave you thinking, and I thought that was clever. I give this movie 4 out 5 stars. It loses a star because of its title and marketing which depicted it as Ariel’s entire back story.

I am sorry for the long post. I also apologize for any grammar errors. If you want to reply directly to something I said I prefer you e-mail me. I really don’t have time to post here every few hours. Plus I’m still working on my Disney World trip report, lol.

Download the soundrack:
http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... ht=#404557
Last edited by Disney Villain on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Vermin Friends »

Disney Villain wrote:Obviously I am connected to The Walt Disney Company so I cannot speak for them, but I’m trying to put things into perspective.
I'm pretty sure this is a typo...

Anyway, I did like your review, Disney Villain, and I actually did consider that the encounter with the eels might have pushed him into the character he became in TLM, but right after the encounter, he goes right back into being the reinvented and annoying Flounder. :(

I do agree that it has a lot more emotion than any other DTV sequel (or at least all the ones I've seen). In this one, there's a death (which I don't think has been done before in a DTV), and then there's the mourning, grieving, the start of Ariel's teenage rebellion, and that amazing scene that Disney's Divinity pointed out- I thought that was really well done, and wish it continued, rather than split with Marina's reprise placed in between (obviously for comic relief). IMO, even Cinderella 3 can't beat the amount and level of emotion in TLM3.
Last edited by Vermin Friends on Thu Aug 28, 2008 9:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by pap64 »

Why do I have the feeling that people are going to rip into Disney Villain's review?

Good post, DV. I do agree that this was definitely geared towards a younger audience. Most DTV movies are, in fact.

I think part of the problem was that this was released after Cinderella III. Cindy III fully delivered on its promise. We see the Stepmother go mad with magical power, Anastasia turns into a likable character, Cindy becomes an action heroine, Prince Charming gains a personality and we see the original story being twisted and resolved very nicely.

To some, AB feels like a step back.
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Post by Disney Villain »

Vermin Friends wrote:
Disney Villain wrote:Obviously I am connected to The Walt Disney Company so I cannot speak for them, but I’m trying to put things into perspective.
I'm pretty sure this is a typo...

Anyway, I did like your review, Disney Villain, and I actually did consider that the encounter with the eels might have pushed him into the character he became in TLM, but right after the encounter, he goes right back into being the reinvented and annoying Flounder. :(

I do agree that it has a lot more emotion than any other DTV sequel (or at least all the ones I've seen). In this one, there's a death (which I don't think has been done before in a DTV), and then there's the mourning, grieving, the start of Ariel's teenage rebellion, and that amazing scene that Disney's Divinity pointed out- I thought that was really well done, and wish it continued, rather than split with Marina's reprise placed in between (obviously for comic relief). IMO, even Cinderella 3 can't beat the amount and level of emotion in TLM3.
That was a HUGE typo. Thank you so much for pointing it out. I fixed it. It's funny I re-read that five times and it never dawned on me. Wishful thinking I guess.

I completely agree with you over the films emotion. It was truly heartfelt, I just wish they expanded more on the “beginning” aspect as well.
pap64 wrote:Why do I have the feeling that people are going to rip into Disney Villain's review?

Good post, DV. I do agree that this was definitely geared towards a younger audience. Most DTV movies are, in fact.

I think part of the problem was that this was released after Cinderella III. Cindy III fully delivered on its promise. We see the Stepmother go mad with magical power, Anastasia turns into a likable character, Cindy becomes an action heroine, Prince Charming gains a personality and we see the original story being twisted and resolved very nicely.

To some, AB feels like a step back.
Thank you. It's inevitable; I typed my opinion so I’m going to get flamed. I know it’s going to happen eventually, lol. Thank you though. Yes, I agree with you about Cinderella III it was complete whereas this leaves more to be desired.
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Post by Vermin Friends »

Disney Villain, I was listening to the audio rips (thanks again! :D) and noticed that the end of "Just One Mistake" is cut out. Right before "I HAD IT!" I can always rip it myself, but I just thought I'd let you know. ;)

edit: Same with the reprise, it goes "meet the new Marina" and then it gets cut off. Like I said I can always rip it myself, but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks again! :)
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Post by pap64 »

Man, why do I keep forgetting stuff about the movie?? I meant to post this earlier but got caught up in the rest of the discussion.

Marina may not be a very evil villain like Ursula, but she is pretty wicked. The proof is in the scene in which she decides to unleash the eels on Sebastian. I understand she wants the better job, but going as far as to kill your co-worker?? Not only that, she wanted to kill Ariel in fear that she would tell Triton what happened. I don't know about you, but that's crazy and HARDCORE!
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Post by Vermin Friends »

pap64 wrote:Man, why do I keep forgetting stuff about the movie?? I meant to post this earlier but got caught up in the rest of the discussion.

Marina may not be a very evil villain like Ursula, but she is pretty wicked. The proof is in the scene in which she decides to unleash the eels on Sebastian. I understand she wants the better job, but going as far as to kill your co-worker?? Not only that, she wanted to kill Ariel in fear that she would tell Triton what happened. I don't know about you, but that's crazy and HARDCORE!
Oh yeah- me too! I kept wanting to bring it up, and it is a very solid point.

One last thing Disney Villain, the "I Remember" reprise is also cut short. It might just be my computer though, since it has been messing with my downloads lately. I'll try again.
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Post by Disney Villain »

Vermin Friends wrote:Disney Villain, I was listening to the audio rips (thanks again! :D) and noticed that the end of "Just One Mistake" is cut out. Right before "I HAD IT!" I can always rip it myself, but I just thought I'd let you know. ;)

edit: Same with the reprise, it goes "meet the new Marina" and then it gets cut off. Like I said I can always rip it myself, but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks again! :)
Thank you for letting me know. On my computer I have the full song, and if you visit the download link for "Just One Mistake"http://www.4shared.com/account/file/608 ... stake.html

and you play the song before downloading, you'll hear the whole song intact. Perhaps something went wrong with the download. I apologize if something went wrong. I hope no one else had a problem.

EDIT:
I re-downloaded without a problem, and if you listen to the songs before downloading they are full. Perhaps something happened to your download.
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Post by Vermin Friends »

Disney Villain wrote:
Vermin Friends wrote:Disney Villain, I was listening to the audio rips (thanks again! :D) and noticed that the end of "Just One Mistake" is cut out. Right before "I HAD IT!" I can always rip it myself, but I just thought I'd let you know. ;)

edit: Same with the reprise, it goes "meet the new Marina" and then it gets cut off. Like I said I can always rip it myself, but I just wanted to let you know. Thanks again! :)
Thank you for letting me know. On my computer I have the full song, and if you visit the download link for "Just One Mistake"http://www.4shared.com/account/file/608 ... stake.html

and you play the song before downloading, you'll hear the whole song intact. Perhaps something went wrong with the download. I apologize if something went wrong. I hope no one else had a problem.

EDIT:
I re-downloaded without a problem, and if you listen to the songs before downloading they are full. Perhaps something happened to your download.
Well I just downloaded it again, and it works completely. Sorry for the mixup (stupid computer :x lol) Thanks again! :)
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

I agree that Marina seems like an obvious allusion to Ursula, though it's never stated out loud. That's why I see her as a tribute to the character and I suppose people could make a longer history for her in the fanverse. I first watched the movie with my mom (I didn't want to watch it with her, because I hate watching movies that could turn out stupid with other people, but she wanted to see it) and as soon as Marina came on the scene, she was like, "You know who that is!" :lol: So, I kind of had to explain that Marina was more of a tribute once the film ended and she wasn't revealed as Ursula.

DV, you have an interesting theory for why Ursula wasn't included, and I think it's very possible you're right. Even Benson mentioned that she was glad the scariness was gone. I'm always clueless as to why parents are adverse to scary moments and even moreso to the fact that children actually get scared. I thrived on the "scary" moments. :P

And I have to give credit to Sally Field for doing an incredible job, balancing out Ariel's drama. I agree with Jodi Benson in that she's so good that you don't even think of the celebrity. And her song was the best in the film for me.
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Post by Siren »

Disney Villain wrote:
Siren, I have no intention of starting a fight, but I think you miss the point. Is it technically legal to rip the songs? Of course it isn’t. However Disney never released the soundtrack, they did release the movie. If Disney ever decided to release a proper soundtrack for this film I would gladly remove the track I uploaded. Besides, we would all buy the soundtrack if Disney released it. I would never download any movie online illegally (like you have admitted). I consider that wrong, even if I did buy the film once it was released. I ripped these tracks because I was trying to be nice since Disney did not release the soundtrack. I understand where you’re coming from, but I think it was foolish. I am trying to do something nice, nothing more. If Disney ever releases a soundtrack I will happily remove all the tracks. I have no intention of starting an argument. To me it makes sense for people to be up in arms when someone illegally downloads a film. This is a different situation.
No, this is the SAME situation. I said I download movies because I am impatient and want to see them again, but I still buy the DVD. People are impatient about a soundtrack release, which I am confident there will be one, so people are uploading the songs. But you think that's okay? But what I do isn't? Like I said, double standards and also hypocritical. I'm not saying to take them down or for others not to download them. I am not going to tell someone how to live their life here, but I was making a mere observation that there is a double standard going on. I don't want to fight, just wanted to point it out. If you actually see this as two different things, then you are being a tad bit ignorant too. You and others are doing the same thing as I do with movies. Being impatient, which is human nature and nothing wrong with it, uploading/downloading copyrighted material which is illegal, and then have plans to buy it when it has a legal release. The ONLY thing different is I do it with movies and you do it with music. This is a case of apples and apples. I wanted to point it out so maybe in the future, those who are downloading this music won't be so quick to those who download movies with the same good intentions.

And I have no plans to "rip" into your review. You are entitled to your opinion.
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Post by Ariel'sprince »

I"m glad you liked the film,Disney Villain :D and wellcome back :D and thanks for the soundtrack :D.
And I agree with Siren.
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