Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[PatrickvD]

That's a mipcom sales ad though.... mipcom is where you go to have your soul slowly leave your body forever.

But yeah, depressing...

[Tangled]

I'm noticing that there has been an increase of direct collaboration between American producers and traditional Japanese animation studios. For example, here's Shelter, which was made directly under the supervision of Porter Robinson, an American EDM producer.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzQ6gRAEoy0[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeprkZEQQAU[/youtube]

There was also just an announcement for an anime pilot produced by Americans and based on an American comic series.

I'm just bringing it up here because it just further proves that hand-drawn animation still continues to be desired by producers, but those producers are turning to other country's animators for their products. Plus, the anime industry is thriving more than ever. The invention of anime streaming has introduced so many new non-Japanese fans to the medium in the past few years, and Kimi no Na Wa has just easily outgrossed every Disney movie in Japan besides Frozen. Of course, Disney never seems to notice these trends.

[Warm Regards]

So this might come across as a bit promotional, but it's more of an (awesome) coincidence, so I'll post here.

A woman who makes manips (i.e., "manipulations", merging two or more movie universes through editing in a music video or similar type of video) on YouTube, TheNamelessDoll, will soon begin a Kickstarter for her hand drawn original series "To Belong". (Which started out as a series of manips, linked here.)

Quick Info About The Project:
​
TITLE: To Belong: Episode 1
​
LENGTH: 20-25 minutes
​
GENRE: Fantasy Adventure
​
MEDIUM: Hand-drawn 2D animation
​
ESTIMATED RATING: PG (Parental Guidance)
Will contain slight nudity and violence.
​
MAIN DEMOGRAPHIC: Teens/Young adults
​
LANGUAGE: English
But will be available with subtitles in 15+ languages

...

This winter a Kickstarter will be launched in order to transform my story “To Belong” into a 100% original animated web series. I, Roosa Karlsson, have been working on the story, lore and characters for over 3 years now, and finally feel confident enough to grab the bull by the horns and try and make this all happen in one big go. If enough people pledge to the Kickstarter and we reach the budget goal then I will spend the next upcoming year creating the first episode of this fantasy series.

"To Belong" is a story about three homeless sibling; Isaia, Terren and Frey. They do their best to get by every passing week, but the winter is approaching and all their resources are already ending. They are therefore once again forced to relocate in a desperate attempt to find work, which is not the easiest when one sibling is only 15. Another has a busted back. And the third wont transform into her animal form. But when things are starting to look completely hopeless, the siblings stumble upon a man who could become their savior.
​
Their journey will be full of ups and downs, and you don't want to miss it all go down.
The script, animators, storyboarders, concept artists, voice actors and more are all ready to go and start on the project. All that is missing is the funds and I will therefore need all the help that I can get. So see you again between November 15th and December 14th at the Kickstarter so that you can check out all the amazing rewards that you get for pledging. And do not forget to check in on this site for the weekly competitions, fanart and new concept art.

Sources:
http://thenamelessdoll.tumblr.com/post/ ... -follow-tb
http://tobelong.wixsite.com/tobelongthe ... he-project

I want more hand-drawn web series. Keep fighting the good fight.

[unprincess]

I only saw the first manip video(part 1 of To Belong)but that is some impressive editing skills! I think the premise looks interesting!( Ima sucker for animal transformations.)I may just have to support this.

btw watching the video just made realize how much I miss hand-drawn animation, Those films are all so lovely and many of my favorites. I think I should give Bambi 2 a 2nd viewing, I thought it was ok but only better compared to the usual DTV fare. Also I loled when the B&B wolf briefly turned into Aladdin, wasnt expecting that.

[Sotiris]

I just learned that Dale Baer left Disney in October. This shouldn't come as a surprise considering his mistreatment by the studio.

That leaves only three 2D animators at WDAS. Who will be the last one to go?

• Mark Henn
• Eric Goldberg
• Randy Haycock

[unprincess]

reading that again I forgot how bad it has gotten for 2d animators there. I suppose it wont be long before the last 3 retire and then they probably wont even bother bringing in anyone new since theyll probably feel CGI is good enough now it doesn't need the expertise of hand-drawn animators anymore.

[Sotiris]

In a new interview, the Bancroft brothers talk about the status of 2D animation at Disney.

Q: Nobody really knows what really happened at Disney with 2D animation. And nowadays if you ask someone from Disney, they all say the same things like “It’s up to the director” or “We are willing to try but…”

Tony Bancroft: But that’s not true, that’s kind of a company line that they have to say. I think it started out to be true when John Lasseter first came back and he became president of Disney Animation. He likes 2D, he loves the tradition of it, it’s what he grew up on and he never wanted to be the one to kill it, obviously. So his line was: if it’s right for the project, then we’ll do it. But there was no project that was ever right. So you can’t say that was true when very single project was actually pushed towards CGI. And I don’t see there’s any change in the near future either. Now I think it’s got to the point where directors don’t even ask if they can do a project in 2D. The studio isn’t even set up for it anymore.

Tom Bancroft: At the beginning we felt like: “OK, 2D can still happen, we can submit an idea and maybe it could be a 2D film”. But I think what we didn’t know for many years was that on the other side there was the business and the marketing people and the executives, and they had made up their minds that they were not gonna do 2D anymore, that it didn’t sell and that the world wanted computer animation. We didn’t know that yet but I think everybody knows it know. They’re still saying things like that because they know that’s what Disney wants them to say, but at this point it’s obvious it’s not true. And also, the other part is: there are no 2D films in the pipeline. And the pipeline is ten years out, they have films slated for at least ten years, so if there’s no 2D planned you basically can say it’s dead. [...] I do think that if it comes back, and even if Disney saw that it had value again, to me what they would do is they would find a studio like Ken Duncan’s and they would hire them to make a film. They just don’t have the means to do that anymore, equipment is gone, all the artists are gone.

Tony Bancroft: The weird thing is, it would be considered a risk. They would never take that kind of risk to make a full 2D animated feature without trying to outsource it first, ‘cause it would be less expensive. If they tried to do it all in-house again – hire everybody back, make some more animation desks, buy paper and pencils – it would be so expensive it would be too much of a risk for their first movie. So it’s cheaper for them to go like “Maybe it would work but we’re not gonna be so invested: we’ll just hire somebody else to do it and make it look like a Disney film”.

Source: https://imperodisney.com/2016/11/14/luc ... animation/

[Disney's Divinity]

I never really considered the idea of Disney outsourcing to another company before. I think they're right that if it does ever happen, that's how. But even that I doubt will happen anytime in the next 10 years.

[Warm Regards]

^ I forget who said it, but I remember someone once said if Disney were to ever do hand-drawn again, it'd be by purchasing a small indie studio that made a successful hand-drawn film already.

[unprincess]

^thats pretty much how Id figure it would happen, kinda the same thing they did with Pixar...

[Kyle]

I'd be all for getting an indy studio to do it. The main thing is that the director keeps them on point to keep the quality they are known for. There's talent out there that can pull it off. They don't need to be in house, though it would be nice.

[Tangled]

Well, there's an Enchanted sequel coming out, and they'll probably have to outsource 2D animation for the fairy tale scenes like they did for the first movie.

I hope Enchanted 2 is successful because it will probably release in the few months after Bob Iger is stepping down. It would be great if the new CEO were to be inspired by that movie's success. Heck, it would just be great if Iger's successor came into the position wanting to make hand-drawn movies again even if they have to outsource, but I don't think that will be case because Disney's film division is in such a sweet spot right now while other parts of the company require much more executive attention (namingly ESPN).

[Warm Regards]

Quickie update about "To Belong": the Kickstarter is up and running. Pitch in if you can.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13 ... ted-series

[JTurner]

Wait, there's an Enchanted sequel happening? I didn't know that.

[Warm Regards]

^Yup, Enchanted is getting a sequel. (http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=280)

We just don't know 100% if the hand drawn element will come back too, or if they'll transition to CG.

Also, from that newest article posted in the Moana thread:

Not all of the compromises between 2D and 3D animation techniques went quite as smoothly. Sometimes, Clements and Musker asked for changes that pushed the animation team to its limits. “As the story evolved, the directors kept thinking of new, interesting, fun things to do in the movie,” says technical supervisor Hank Driskill, “and repeatedly, those of us left actually executing the movie were going, ‘Um, we don’t know how to do that.'” After all, while 2D animators can simply produce new drawings, computer animators need to build digital objects, set them up or “rig” them for animation, and figure out how to produce new effects before they get down to animating.

Really curious what interesting ideas we missed out on because of technical limitations.

[Sotiris]

In a new interview, Lasseter openly blames 2D animation for the failure of The Princess and the Frog.

Whereas Pixar was founded by animators committed to working with digital tools, the Disney team had a hand-drawn tradition. “There was this fear that the artistry would get lost in the transition to technology,” recalls “Zootopia” co-director Byron Howard, who has been with the studio since “Pocahontas” — and who switched to the story department, “so I could keep drawing.”

Ironically, when Lasseter took charge at Disney Animation, one of his goals was to revive the studio’s hand-drawn (or 2D) animation efforts — a strategy that yielded “The Princess and the Frog” and a “Winnie the Pooh” reboot. But both films were box office disappointments.

“I was determined to bring back [hand-drawn animation] because I felt it was such a heritage of the Disney studio, and I love the art form,” Lasseter says. “I was stunned that ‘Princess’ didn’t do better. We dug into it and did a lot of research and focus groups. It was viewed as old-fashioned by the audience.”

Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/features/d ... 201923719/

[Tristy]

In a new interview, Lasseter openly blames 2D animation for the failure of The Princess and the Frog.

Whereas Pixar was founded by animators committed to working with digital tools, the Disney team had a hand-drawn tradition. “There was this fear that the artistry would get lost in the transition to technology,” recalls “Zootopia” co-director Byron Howard, who has been with the studio since “Pocahontas” — and who switched to the story department, “so I could keep drawing.”

Ironically, when Lasseter took charge at Disney Animation, one of his goals was to revive the studio’s hand-drawn (or 2D) animation efforts — a strategy that yielded “The Princess and the Frog” and a “Winnie the Pooh” reboot. But both films were box office disappointments.

“I was determined to bring back [hand-drawn animation] because I felt it was such a heritage of the Disney studio, and I love the art form,” Lasseter says. “I was stunned that ‘Princess’ didn’t do better. We dug into it and did a lot of research and focus groups. It was viewed as old-fashioned by the audience.”

Source: http://variety.com/2016/film/features/d ... 201923719/

Ohhhhhhh. B-but I thought it was the STORY that counts... Not the medium. So I guess that's why the Ice Age films are successful. Because they have great stories.

I'm almost curious what Roy Disney would have felt about this if he were still alive.

[JTurner]

^ I forget who said it, but I remember someone once said if Disney were to ever do hand-drawn again, it'd be by purchasing a small indie studio that made a successful hand-drawn film already.

It would be interesting to see them do that.

Ironically, it might very well be up to these indie studios to revive handdrawn animation if Disney is too discouraged to do so.

Regarding what Lasseter said...

I don't think his quote implies that it was 2D or handdrawn that doomed The Princess and the Frog. As likable as that film was, it wasn't really anything "new". It felt like "more of the same". I think if the studio had done something like Lilo and Stitch which didn't delve into the time tested well of princess formula, then it would have been seen as something new.

Either I'm misinterpreting what he said, or I'm crazy.

[unprincess]

wait is Lassater admitting that he FAILED at something? gasp!
so yep, at the end it all comes down to money... right. Screw that legacy b.s.
gotta love(hate) Nu!Disney.

[Disney's Divinity]

Really curious what interesting ideas we missed out on because of technical limitations.

But they haven't found the "right" movie for hand-drawn animation, don'tchaknow. (Not directed at you, but the company.)

Even if Enchanted 2 does feature minimal hand-drawn animation, it has no bearing on this conversation. No way will it be done in-studio and it will not revive fully hand-drawn animated films.