Is Disney Done with DVD? (The Never Ending Blu-Ray Debate)

[drfsupercenter]

What IS a concern is constant bashing of the format by people who seem to have a vested interest in the format's death, and have no problem telling outright lies about the format. "As we all know, Blu-Ray isn't catching on, blah blah blah". It's pathetic. Try this on for size: "As we all know, Chernabog hates Blu-Ray, and lies about it constantly in every thread that concerns the format."

Um, hello? I never said anything about wanting the format to die... I'm merely pointing out that all the Blu-Ray fanboys are being "blinded by the leet" and automatically assuming everything ever released with a Blu-Ray logo is automatically perfect quality and the greatest thing ever. I actually HAVE a Blu-Ray player, and I've compared several films myself. Some movies do actually show an improvement, but some others don't. If Blu-Rays were the same price as DVDs, and/or if they were released in a dual format (like a lot of HD-DVDs were), that would be one thing. But you honestly expect me to pay $25-$30 for Pinocchio, when the DVD looks brilliant as well?

I'm not claiming that it's not catching on or whatever - I actually try to do my research first. I just hate how a lot of this forum seems to be a fanboy to Blu-Ray, and actually complains about titles coming to DVD but not Blu-Ray (Lilo and Stitch, for example). Seriously, people, lighten up! Blu-Ray is a luxury, nothing more, and nothing less. It may look better to some, but not everyone finds it better (me, for example), and in my opinion, people like Rudy Matt are just as bad as the people who bash it constantly. (By bashing those PEOPLE constantly)

[ajmrowland]

What IS a concern is constant bashing of the format by people who seem to have a vested interest in the format's death, and have no problem telling outright lies about the format. "As we all know, Blu-Ray isn't catching on, blah blah blah". It's pathetic. Try this on for size: "As we all know, Chernabog hates Blu-Ray, and lies about it constantly in every thread that concerns the format."

Um, hello? I never said anything about wanting the format to die... I'm merely pointing out that all the Blu-Ray fanboys are being "blinded by the leet" and automatically assuming everything ever released with a Blu-Ray logo is automatically perfect quality and the greatest thing ever. I actually HAVE a Blu-Ray player, and I've compared several films myself. Some movies do actually show an improvement, but some others don't. If Blu-Rays were the same price as DVDs, and/or if they were released in a dual format (like a lot of HD-DVDs were), that would be one thing. But you honestly expect me to pay $25-$30 for Pinocchio, when the DVD looks brilliant as well?

I never said that all movies on the format are absolute perfect quality, I'm aware of plenty of films that have gotten less than 4 out of 5 stars for....everything, even. I only buy the movies I want, and those just so happen to usually be perfect or near-perfect Picture Quality at least. But even with a subsequent DVD, the blu-ray generally looks and sounds better off the same master. The biggest difference with TDK, which you mentioned earlier, is more likely the AR than the quality in itself. It was shot 70mm, anyway.

I loved the HD DVD/DVD combos. those were great!

I'm not claiming that it's not catching on or whatever - I actually try to do my research first. I just hate how a lot of this forum seems to be a fanboy to Blu-Ray, and actually complains about titles coming to DVD but not Blu-Ray (Lilo and Stitch, for example). Seriously, people, lighten up! Blu-Ray is a luxury, nothing more, and nothing less. It may look better to some, but not everyone finds it better (me, for example), and in my opinion, people like Rudy Matt are just as bad as the people who bash it constantly. (By bashing those PEOPLE constantly)

At least I have enough sense to still appreciate how good DVD can look. I'm picking up L&S the same day as Bolt.

[drfsupercenter]

But even with a subsequent DVD, the blu-ray generally looks and sounds better off the same master. The biggest difference with TDK, which you mentioned earlier, is more likely the AR than the quality in itself. It was shot 70mm, anyway.

They butchered the aspect ratio on TDK though, the IMAX ratio was 1.44:1, and the Blu-Ray has it 1.78:1. If it were up to me, I'd let them watch the entire thing in 2.35:1 (like the DVD, and non-IMAX theaters), the way it is now, or the IMAX scenes by themselves in OAR 1.44:1 (like the second disc of the DVD)

I loved the HD DVD/DVD combos. those were great!

There are rumors that something like that's coming with Blu-Ray too. But I think actually on a single side, and not double sided... which would be awesome as then the DVD part would have the same scratch protection Blu-Rays do. (That's one feature that I actually do like about BR is the scratch resistant coating, though in theory they could have done that to DVDs too.)

At least I have enough sense to still appreciate how good DVD can look. I'm picking up L&S the same day as Bolt.

I'm not complaining about you. More people like Rudy Matt who just blatantly insult other individuals over their opinions. I try not to do that, unless I'm rebutting someone who's done that to me.

[ajmrowland]

But even with a subsequent DVD, the blu-ray generally looks and sounds better off the same master. The biggest difference with TDK, which you mentioned earlier, is more likely the AR than the quality in itself. It was shot 70mm, anyway.

They butchered the aspect ratio on TDK though, the IMAX ratio was 1.44:1, and the Blu-Ray has it 1.78:1. If it were up to me, I'd let them watch the entire thing in 2.35:1 (like the DVD, and non-IMAX theaters), the way it is now, or the IMAX scenes by themselves in OAR 1.44:1 (like the second disc of the DVD)

Oh really? Didn't know that. Actually I think the 1:44.1 was to look more like the shape of a standard IMAX screen, with the Blu-ray's ratio being to fit a widescreen tv. You can't switch between animorphic and then have all the good scenes be almost 4:3, even if the original non-IMAX presentation was included.

I loved the HD DVD/DVD combos. those were great!

There are rumors that something like that's coming with Blu-Ray too. But I think actually on a single side, and not double sided... which would be awesome as then the DVD part would have the same scratch protection Blu-Rays do. (That's one feature that I actually do like about BR is the scratch resistant coating, though in theory they could have done that to DVDs too.)[/quote]
I hope so. There are rumors of Sony developing a hybrid Blu-ray movie/PS3 game disc. If it were to be the only option for some movies, it probably wont go over too well with what would be a tripled price.

At least I have enough sense to still appreciate how good DVD can look. I'm picking up L&S the same day as Bolt.

I'm not complaining about you. More people like Rudy Matt who just blatantly insult other individuals over their opinions. I try not to do that, unless I'm rebutting someone who's done that to me.[/quote] Oh, ok. I know I can sound stupid or full of it sometimes, and was well aware of it when typing that reply.

[drfsupercenter]

Oh really? Didn't know that. Actually I think the 1:44.1 was to look more like the shape of a standard IMAX screen, with the Blu-ray's ratio being to fit a widescreen tv. You can't switch between animorphic and then have all the good scenes be almost 4:3, even if the original non-IMAX presentation was included.

Well it was originally shot in 1.44:1. The IMAX just crops the top and bottom off (like the complaints against The Jungle Book) to make it fit HDTVs. I can compare it with the second-disc DVD if you want, as I have the DVD set.
I know there's no such thing as non-anamorphic on Blu-Ray, it's inherently widescreen by nature. But I mean, with all that space they have for extras, they could have just used seamless branching to have the full movie in 2.35:1, then offer the IMAX scenes in either 1.78:1 or 1.44:1, whatever people choose (it would be pillar boxed like Pinocchio will be), or something to that extent. Whatever, it's their loss. I still hate how WB intentionally made a bad DVD to promote Blu-Ray. (Maybe if I figure out how to rip Xbox 360 HD videos, I can take that 720p rental and transcode it into a DVD that beats the official one )

I hope so. There are rumors of Sony developing a hybrid Blu-ray movie/PS3 game disc. If it were to be the only option for some movies, it probably wont go over too well with what would be a tripled price.

I heard that too but movie/game combos sound stupid. I just want HD/SD combos

And btw, your double-quoting isn't working. Either you need an extra [ quote ] tag or the forum doesn't support nesting quotes...

[Chernabog_Rocks]

The irony of the bolded statement...it kills. I don't get why the fact that some people aren't trampling over each other to buy a Blu-Ray player is pissing you off so much. Aren't there more important things in the world to worry about?

The fact that some people aren't adopting it isn't a concern to me. Blu-Ray is on track to sell 100 million units this year - up from 30 million in 2008. I don't care what some NTSC luddites do with their money

What IS a concern is constant bashing of the format by people who seem to have a vested interest in the format's death, and have no problem telling outright lies about the format. "As we all know, Blu-Ray isn't catching on, blah blah blah". It's pathetic. Try this on for size: "As we all know, Chernabog hates Blu-Ray, and lies about it constantly in every thread that concerns the format."

Just because it's on track to sell that many doesn't mean it can/will things change and that estimate could go off track depending on whether or not people do decide to buy.

Also I hope it's not me your refering to in the second bolded statment and in fact refering to the other Chernabog who posts here I can get into enough trouble on my own never mind taking the heat off of him too

[Goliath]

What IS a concern is constant bashing of the format by people who seem to have a vested interest in the format's death, and have no problem telling outright lies about the format. "As we all know, Blu-Ray isn't catching on, blah blah blah". It's pathetic. Try this on for size: "As we all know, Chernabog hates Blu-Ray, and lies about it constantly in every thread that concerns the format."

One could reverse that complaint. What IS a concern is constant praising of the format, even in threads that have nothing to do with it, by people who seem to have a vested interest in the format's success, and have no problems picking fights over it, acting like they are the spokesperson of the format/industry.

Chill and act normal.

[DarthPrime]

Thanks for the review.

This Blu-ray/DVD thing is getting out of hand. Maybe we should honestly have a Blu-ray Disney and a DVD Disney section on the forum to keep things separated. All the constant worries over formats, and if the films have the right colors, etc... Sometimes I wonder if anyone even enjoys the films anymore. I don't know...

I do know that despite numbers, and the general feeling on forums about Blu-ray its not catching on as fast as the internet says it is. With the current economy its not going to get any better. Is Blu-ray going away? No. Will it replace DVD? Its too early to tell, but I'm leaning towards No. Blu-ray is going to be a tougher sale for the majority of people than DVD was over VHS. According to numbers it is doing better than DVD did in the early years, but that doesn't mean it will have the same success that DVD did.

[drfsupercenter]

I think it won't replace DVDs - mainly because DVDs have the same actual content Blu-Rays have most of the time (apart from BD-live, which most people probably don't even care about or use)

Whereas typically with VHS, the movies were only presented in a pan-and-scan format (assuming it's not like Pinocchio and shot in Academy), and had virtually no special features. So DVDs were this huge improvement - you can get the OAR, you could get bonus features, AND they didn't deteriorate every time you use them like VHS. (I think for the first couple years of DVDs there WAS no such thing as "fullscreen"... they only started doing those when the VHS loving era was complaining about the black bars)

With Blu-Ray, it's like, you get a little better quality but not that much DVD can't already do. I don't care if it's mathematically 500% better, as long as you're using a good upscaler it doesn't LOOK 5x better.

As for the colors - there's really no logical reason why the Blu-Ray and DVD would have different colors. There really isn't. Both can use MPEG-2 video format, the only difference is the bitrate. AVC is like MPEG-2, only it's MPEG-4 instead. (But I've seen quite a few Blu-Rays that use MPEG-2, same as DVDs only a higher bitrate)
Again, everybody here just gives Disney credit for EVERYTHING, maybe it's possible that the color differences in Sleeping Beauty were their fault and only their fault - not the format of DVD vs. Blu-Ray.
When I have the ability to decrypt Blu-Ray discs, I might go rent the Sleeping Beauty Blu-Ray, and see if I can't make my own 480p DVD that has the same coloring. I'd bet a lot of money that I can keep the colors consistent with the HD version.

[Goliath]

Thanks for the review.

This Blu-ray/DVD thing is getting out of hand. Maybe we should honestly have a Blu-ray Disney and a DVD Disney section on the forum to keep things separated. All the constant worries over formats, and if the films have the right colors, etc... Sometimes I wonder if anyone even enjoys the films anymore. I don't know...

Yes, I agree. I'm annoyed too, when I 'walk into' a thread about a certain film, hoping to be able to discuss the film, only to find the thread cluttered with debated over aspect ratios, colors, BluRay etc. By the way, there IS an excellent thread named 'Is Disney done with DVD?', where these issues can be discussed.

[Rudy Matt]

Yes, I agree. I'm annoyed too, when I 'walk into' a thread about a certain film, hoping to be able to discuss the film, only to find the thread cluttered with debated over aspect ratios, colors, BluRay etc. By the way, there IS an excellent thread named 'Is Disney done with DVD?', where these issues can be discussed.

I also agree, and apologize. Thing is, I want every Disney film in HighDef. I'm excited by the move of 20,000 Leagues to December, as it might mean a HighDef release as well. I want Disney to treat all of Walt's films in the best way possible, from Third Man on the Mountain to Alice's Wild West Show, from Ben & Me to The Light in the Forest, from Fantasia to Pigs Is Pigs. I want all of them in HighDef. DVD may be "good enough" for some of you, and in many ways, it is. But it isn't the best. And nothing but the best is good enough for these films.

So I'll stop the BluRay bitching. Here's hoping you do, too.

[ajmrowland]

Yes, I agree. I'm annoyed too, when I 'walk into' a thread about a certain film, hoping to be able to discuss the film, only to find the thread cluttered with debated over aspect ratios, colors, BluRay etc. By the way, there IS an excellent thread named 'Is Disney done with DVD?', where these issues can be discussed.

I also agree, and apologize. Thing is, I want every Disney film in HighDef. I'm excited by the move of 20,000 Leagues to December, as it might mean a HighDef release as well. I want Disney to treat all of Walt's films in the best way possible, from Third Man on the Mountain to Alice's Wild West Show, from Ben & Me to The Light in the Forest, from Fantasia to Pigs Is Pigs. I want all of them in HighDef. DVD may be "good enough" for some of you, and in many ways, it is. But it isn't the best. And nothing but the best is good enough for these films.

So I'll stop the BluRay bitching. Here's hoping you do, too.

It's the same with any thread. I walk into Kingdom Hearts threads on Gamefaqs only to find large derailings going on all the time. It's fun to talk about the stuff that is off topic there(like trolls), but not here. I'm just saying it's common.

[drfsupercenter]

I also agree, and apologize. Thing is, I want every Disney film in HighDef. I'm excited by the move of 20,000 Leagues to December, as it might mean a HighDef release as well. I want Disney to treat all of Walt's films in the best way possible, from Third Man on the Mountain to Alice's Wild West Show, from Ben & Me to The Light in the Forest, from Fantasia to Pigs Is Pigs. I want all of them in HighDef. DVD may be "good enough" for some of you, and in many ways, it is. But it isn't the best. And nothing but the best is good enough for these films.

So I'll stop the BluRay bitching. Here's hoping you do, too.

Incidentally, the "best" quality for Disney films would be just giving out copies of the original 35mm film masters (or for digital ones like Pixar and the CAPS movies - giving people a 1:1 copy of the original source).

But who knows, maybe someday that will happen. I know you can already get some Disney movies on HD from iTunes using Apple TV or something (I wasn't gonna waste $200 on a box that just decrypts mp4s, even if you can only get those mp4s through the box)... possibly even some that aren't on Blu-Ray. (There's also methods like recording Disney Channel HD or Disney XD HD, if you can deal with watermarks)

[Rudy Matt]

Incidentally, the "best" quality for Disney films would be just giving out copies of the original 35mm film masters (or for digital ones like Pixar and the CAPS movies - giving people a 1:1 copy of the original source).

Well, in the *real* world, people don't have 35mm projectors in their homes, so we have to deal with LCDs, Plasmas, rear-projection TVs(though they're on the way out), and the old standard def TVs. The cost of making an interpositive is considerable versus ripping a digital file to a BluRay or SDVD disc.

And even then, striking a dupe from a negative always harms the negative, so inevitably, you're going to eventually harm what you hope to preserve. As I am primarily concerned with the actual films of Walt Disney, not those who came after, I think it would be dangerous and impracticle to make prints of all his film struck from their original negative. High Definition and digital technology is the best solution for mass distribution of those films.

But who knows, maybe someday that will happen. I know you can already get some Disney movies on HD from iTunes using Apple TV or something (I wasn't gonna waste $200 on a box that just decrypts mp4s, even if you can only get those mp4s through the box)...

Nor I.

There's also methods like recording Disney Channel HD or Disney XD HD, if you can deal with watermarks)

Yes, but Disney Channel HD frequently broadcasts below 1080 -- the films look like garbage, intentionally so, with watermarks and commercials, because why buy the movies if you can record them all for low cost?

[Anton Ego]

Incidentally, the "best" quality for Disney films would be just giving out copies of the original 35mm film masters (or for digital ones like Pixar and the CAPS movies - giving people a 1:1 copy of the original source).

Well, in the *real* world, people don't have 35mm projectors in their homes...

Yes, there are a multitude of reasons 35mm has yet to make inroads as a home medium depsite predating all the rest of them. In addition: Uncompressed digital masters run into dozens of terabytes per title and would require petabytes of local storage to house a sizable film library. Studios don't <i>sell</i> film or digital distribution masters even to cinemas. There exists no economic incentive that could justify studios selling their masters to the general public: no pirate should require an explanation on that account.

It's clear what was meant by "best" in context and Blu-ray offers the best presentation quality available from any consumer home media format on the market <b>including</b> AppleTV/iTunes HD, which operates with fractional bitrates and file sizes compared to what Blu-ray can support and which does not offer lossless/uncompressed audio at all.

[drfsupercenter]

Well the thing is Blu-Ray is only the best *right now*.
In a few years I'm sure 1080p will be today's 480p.

And the thing is - 1080p is just the size of an image. It doesn't mean a certain movie is good or bad - I could scan a negative of some movie at 24000p and it would look good too. So why people get so hung up on Blu-Ray is beyond me.

I know most people don't have 35mm film projectors, though it would be cool if they did. I do know a few people who have a "home theater" using an actual projector, but it's fed by a DVD player.

Yes, but Disney Channel HD frequently broadcasts below 1080 -- the films look like garbage, intentionally so, with watermarks and commercials, because why buy the movies if you can record them all for low cost?

I've heard from people that the movies are really good quality though. (Like when they showed Cars). And it's fairly easy to remove commercials, as long as you don't have one of those DRM'ed-to-Hell DVRs the cable companies are selling...

[Anton Ego]

I'm annoyed too, when I 'walk into' a thread about a certain film, hoping to be able to discuss the film, only to find the thread cluttered with debated over aspect ratios, colors, BluRay etc. By the way, there IS an excellent thread named 'Is Disney done with DVD?', where these issues can be discussed.

There's no single common denominator that justifies consolidating all those discussions into a single thread.

Let's not pretend that the endless array of presentation quality discussions regarding aspect ratios, color timing, and the like are necessarily related to or in any way limited to the Blu-ray format. I find screencap debates to be boring, uninformed, mis-informative, and a waste of internet tubes, but such discussions on this forum obviously predate the Blu-ray format and lumping them all together would likely create one of the longest and most disorganized threads on the board. Ultimately it wouldn't accomplish anything anyway: such discussions will inevitably proliferate in threads dedicated to specific individual releases (and which will inevitably involve Blu-ray releases from here on out). There's nothing in the title or topic "Is Disney Done With DVD?" which signifies an appropriate omnibus location for discussions of presentation quality. Likewise, the title in no way designates that thread as the only appropriate place to discuss the technical capabilities or market viability of Blu-ray: the format isn't even mentioned by name. I confess I don't quite understand the considerable need evinced on this forum to marginalize and ghettoize the Blu-ray format, although it's clear the tone is set at the top.

[2099net]

For crying out loud everybody. Does this really have to continue?

Pinocchio is on DVD and Blu-ray. You even get a DVD with the Blu-ray.

Sleeping Beauty on DVD got a new restoration, restored Grand Canyon and Disneyland footage, a new making of and a new commentary track. No doubt some or all of this was down to Disney also releasing the Blu-ray (for example, they probably wanted the Making Of to specifically be in HD).

I also suspect that, like Sleeping Beauty, the DVD will have benefited from the Blu-ray release. See how it has a commentary? Have all Platinum DVDs had a commentary? No. Has the Blu-ray had a specific CineExplore Track recorded which just happens to be the commentary too? Yes. Do you think that's a co-incidence?

Has the film had another restoration, when most countries got a restored Pinocchio a few years back? Yes. Again, do you think that's a co-incidence?

Of course, we can't say for sure, but given that Disney is increasingly turning out DVDs with less and less supplements and some of the previous platinum editions have been of questionable content, I personally am convinced some of Pinocchio's features only exist because Disney wanted then for the Blu-ray.

When Disney ONLY release Blu-ray, then's the time for people to legitimately become upset.

[Rudy Matt]

I've heard from people that the movies are really good quality though. (Like when they showed Cars). And it's fairly easy to remove commercials, as long as you don't have one of those DRM'ed-to-Hell DVRs the cable companies are selling...

Not on Time Warner, they aren't. the Disney HD channel is little more than the same channel aired in the HD bandwidth (the Sci-fi channel does the same thing). These aren't "HD" broadcasts at all, they're just carried on the HD bandwidth.

Finding Nemo was on the other day, and it looked fine, but no more so than the DVD. Meanwhile the Blu-Ray of Wall*E features footage from Monsters Inc and A Bug's Life and you needed a chin strap to keep your jaw from hitting the floor.

[drfsupercenter]

Of course, we can't say for sure, but given that Disney is increasingly turning out DVDs with less and less supplements and some of the previous platinum editions have been of questionable content, I personally am convinced some of Pinocchio's features only exist because Disney wanted then for the Blu-ray.

When Disney ONLY release Blu-ray, then's the time for people to legitimately become upset.

I never was complaining about them releasing Blu-Rays. I'm complaining about the people who complain when movies AREN'T released on Blu-Ray, or the people who think Blu-Ray is some work of God because it's just so amazing. Compared to DVD over VHS, the difference seems not as overwhelming (As I said, only about half the movies I've tried even look different)

Not on Time Warner, they aren't. the Disney HD channel is little more than the same channel aired in the HD bandwidth (the Sci-fi channel does the same thing). These aren't "HD" broadcasts at all, they're just carried on the HD bandwidth.

Finding Nemo was on the other day, and it looked fine, but no more so than the DVD. Meanwhile the Blu-Ray of Wall*E features footage from Monsters Inc and A Bug's Life and you needed a chin strap to keep your jaw from hitting the floor.

Hm. Well, I know Time Warner is one of the most evil cable companies, which is why they're always the scapegoat of companies like Viacom...
I don't have any HD channels besides the local ones (I've been bugging my parents to upgrade, mainly for the widescreen than for the quality). But one of my friends has Dish Network and his HD Disney channels look pretty good. Granted, I haven't TRIED upscaling the DVD, but they look a lot better than the non-HD version. (Which for some providers is just a lower-bitrate digital... for me it's analog)

But then again - that also proves my point that upscaled DVDs can still look just fine on HDTVs. It just takes the proper equipment, it seems that HDTVs are manufactured to cripple non-HD content (hence my rant on why HDTV manufacturers are evil)... whereas using some software filters it can look almost as good as the actual HD version. (For that matter, I obtained a HD broadcast of one of the Pokémon movies from Japanese over-the-air (which usually IS HD, unlike the upscaled cable channels)... but because of the compression and stuff, certain scenes actually looked better from upscaling the DVD. It hasn't been released HD apart from TV airings so there's actually a need for the upscaling))