Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[Kyle]

It would probably depend on the time between each success. If you had two come out within a year of each other that could be enough to get major studios to notice. But if there were several years between them you'd need like 4 or something depending on how successful they really were.

[JTurner]

It would probably depend on the time between each success. If you had two come out within a year of each other that could be enough to get major studios to notice. But if there were several years between them you'd need like 4 or something depending on how successful they really were.

Well sure, the only way people will take notice of hand drawn animation again is if more than one such movie is a success.

But that won't be easy.

[unprincess]

I think its pretty much dead in the big studios. I think it will remain alive in foreign and indie studios. Its too beloved to die...

[JTurner]

I think its pretty much dead in the big studios. I think it will remain alive in foreign and indie studios. Its too beloved to die...

It DOES seem that way.

But hypothetically speaking, what if one of these indie animated films catches on?

The way I see it, it's only dead in the big studios for now. I share milojthatch's views on this. It's understandable to be cynical and think it'll never come back but you never know. Glad I became an Anime fan for that reason, and a GKids supporter, too.

[Sotiris]

What about Little Door Gods and Monster Hunt, didn't those get a brief release here?

Yes, surprisingly we had three Chinese CG-animated films released in the U.S. theatrically this year. Monster Hunt received a limited theatrical release on January 22, Monkey King: Hero Is Back is getting a wide release on July 29, and Little Door Gods (renamed to The Guardian Brothers in the U.S.) has just been acquired by the Weinstein Co. with plans for a wide release (although no specific date has been announced yet). The thing is it's easier for these big-budgeted CG features to find distribution in America (and even those are a rarity) than a 2D-animated one. Big Fish and Begonia is neither CG to appeal to commercial distributors nor "arthouse" enough to be noticed by GKids.

There have been occasional R-rated animated films. Things like Heavy Metal and TV adaptations like Beavis and Butthead and South Park. I'm not sure if any of Bill Plympton's films are rated, but I'm sure a few of them would be R if they were.

There seems to be a renewed interest in American R-rated animated films lately. Last year there was Hell & Back and Anomalisa, and this year there's Sausage Party, Nerdland, and the direct-to-video Batman: The Killing Joke, and When Black Birds Fly. There were also a few successful crowd-funded campaigns for R-rated animated films like The Planet of Doom, Boxhead, Malevolent, and The Adventures of Drunky.

[Sotiris]

There's an upcoming 2D-animated feature from Iran titled "The Last Fiction" that will be released in 2017. You can watch the trailer, here.

[Sotiris]

There's a cool hand-drawn animated feature that needs your help. "Orient City: Ronin & the Princess", a samurai spaghetti western, is seeking funding on Kickstarter. You can watch the teaser, here.

[REINIER]

This orient city seems promising..worth backing even ...I just can't figure out why main stream studio's are unwilling/unable to figure out making profit out of one of these projects. When even Dragons Lair by Don Bluth needs funding ..a director with an (albeit uneven) proven track record..where is 2D headed? Surely there are 3D movies with less potential that get made either way... one other thing of note is that imo If all of these independent artist made one project instead of 30 something amongst themselves it might just get greenlit. Instead now we get one project after the other with no funding in sight

[JTurner]

This orient city seems promising..worth backing even ...I just can't figure out why main stream studio's are unwilling/unable to figure out making profit out of one of these projects. When even Dragons Lair by Don Bluth needs funding ..a director with an (albeit uneven) proven track record..where is 2D headed? Surely there are 3D movies with less potential that get made either way... one other thing of note is that imo If all of these independent artist made one project instead of 30 something amongst themselves it might just get greenlit. Instead now we get one project after the other with no funding in sight

I'm more interested in the idea about what if any of these indie animated features including DRAGON'S LAIR ends up finding success… to the point that Disney or any other big studio realizes that this is worth investing in. Of course that answer will be a long time off, but I can't help but wonder.

[unprincess]

I dont think a couple of modestly profitable indie 2d films will change the big studios minds. It would have to be a 2d film doing Frozen/Minions level success. And then a second 2d film gaining similar profits, along with a couple CGI studio films underperforming at the same time. Yeah I know, fat chance of this ever happening. Ive become a pessimist about this situation. Ive resigned myself to just enjoying the sparce eclectic 2d slate the indie/foreign studios give us.

[JTurner]

I dont think a couple of modestly profitable indie 2d films will change the big studios minds. It would have to be a 2d film doing Frozen/Minions level success. And then a second 2d film gaining similar profits, along with a couple CGI studio films underperforming at the same time. Yeah I know, fat chance of this ever happening. Ive become a pessimist about this situation. Ive resigned myself to just enjoying the sparce eclectic 2d slate the indie/foreign studios give us.

It's understandable to be a pessimist.

However, it's not impossible for another 2D animated movie to be a hit or topple FROZEN/MINIONS.

Once upon a time, when Disney was at one of its lowest points, along came Don Bluth's AN AMERICAN TAIL which not only outgrossed Disney's THE GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE, it became the most successful animated movie up to that time, period. I'm sure a lot of people believed that there was a fat chance of that happening, as well.

It's not impossible, but having said that, it will not be easy. It will take a lot of effort to do it. I do like how we're getting these cool 2D projects, but on the other hand, one can never be so sure what the future will hold. We can't know for sure either way. But I'm not giving up.

[Mooky]

I doubt a hit hand-drawn film will come out of a big studio any time soon, so our best hope is still crowdfunding. However, for such a venture to be a true success, I feel it needs to be done differently to what we're used to:

- it needs to have big animation names attached, like huge -- Glen Keane, Eric Goldberg, Andreas Deja, Mark Henn, etc., most of them former Disney animators and directors, so the movie/project could use the Disney connection to its advantage. The Disney brand and movies bring a lot of name recognition, so having the project be advertised as, say, "from the filmmakers who brought you The Little Mermaid" would be a huge push.

- it needs to be based on a pre-existing, super-popular source that hasn't been done in (mainstream) animation before or recently in order to create additional buzz for the project. A fairy tale, a comic book, a popular novel, mythology... Think of the stuff like animated Theseus and the Minotaur, The Princess and the Pea, Artemis Fowl series, The Giving Tree, The Wild Swans, The Velveteen Rabbit, Around the World in 80 Days, The 12 Dancing Princesses, The Phantom, Zorro, The Pied Piper, etc. Major studios haven't nabbed them all; there's still a lot left to choose from. I'm all for original stories, but I feel hand-drawn animation needs to establish a stronghold first before venturing into all-original stuff. It also needs to be accessible to everyone, so no animated Dracula or a Stephen King novel just yet.

- once the movie is done, it needs a massive, interactive advertising campaign

- but most of all, it just needs to be good. I guess small budget would help get rid off any superfluous story/action points, making the actual plot tight and focused.

[ce1ticmoon]

Orient City looks interesting. I might back it. $20 for the BD reward is pretty good.

In other news,

Cannes: GKids Buys ‘Girl Without Hands’ for North America
http://variety.com/2016/film/news/canne ... 201775385/

Can't find much about this film, but it looks to be a hand-drawn film. Obviously there isn't much to go off of, but the little info we have makes it seem promising.

Cartoon Saloon’s ‘The Breadwinner’ Moves Into Production
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/feature-film ... 39793.html

Looks to be another gem from Cartoon Saloon. Directed by Nora Twomey, who co-founded the studio and co-directed The Secret of Kells.

[Sotiris]

I don't think a couple of modestly profitable indie 2D films will change the big studios' minds. It would have to be a 2D film doing Frozen/Minions-level success. And then a second 2D film gaining similar profits, along with a couple CGI studio films under-performing at the same time. Yeah I know, fat chance of this ever happening. I've become a pessimist about this situation. I've resigned myself to just enjoying the sparse eclectic 2D slate the indie/foreign studios give us.

Yeah, I agree. Although no indie film can ever fill the void left by Disney. I still really miss the naturalistic, fully-animated, Disney-style of animation that has pretty much become extinct.

Once upon a time, when Disney was at one of its lowest points, along came Don Bluth's AN AMERICAN TAIL which not only outgrossed Disney's THE GREAT MOUSE DETECTIVE, it became the most successful animated movie up to that time, period. I'm sure a lot of people believed that there was a fat chance of that happening, as well.

You're comparing two very different situations. An American Tail was not some indie, auteur film, in the traditional sense. It was designed as a commercial film with a relatively high budget. While it was made for lower than Disney's average budget, it was still considered a high-budgeted production (An American Tail was made for $9m while The Great Mouse Detective was made for $14m). The gap between an indie and a Hollywood animated movie now is much wider. For example, Song of the Sea was made for $6m whereas Big Hero 6 for $165m. An American Tail was produced by Steven Spielberg, a name that carried a lot weight with both audiences and the industry back then and it received a wide release by Universal who gave it a big marketing push. Not to mention that it was made in a conventional Disney-esque style in the default animation medium of the time.

None of the above apply today. First of all, hand-drawn animation as a medium is considered box office poison. It's incredibly difficult to find investors who would fund a 2D feature. Countless are the cases of indie and foreign filmmakers who wanted to make their movies in 2D but were forced to change them into CG just so they could find investors. The few 2D animated movies that do get completed have trouble finding distributors, especially outside of their home country. Even when the occasional film does manage to find distribution, it only gets a limited theatrical release which prevents it from becoming a blockbuster. Even family-friendly 2D-animated movies are labeled as arthouse, specialty films and subsequently marketed to a niche audience. Reaching a broader, mainstream audience is next to impossible with this business model.

It's not impossible, but having said that, it will not be easy. It will take a lot of effort to do it. I do like how we're getting these cool 2D projects, but on the other hand, one can never be so sure what the future will hold. We can't know for sure either way. But I'm not giving up.

Just because something is possible, doesn't mean it's plausible. Waiting around ad infinitum for a 'miracle' movie that will bring back 2D animation sounds like a recipe for disappointment. There's no point in maintaining false hope. I think it's time we accept the reality of the situation even if we don't like it.

Can't find much about this film, but it looks to be a hand-drawn film.

It is. You can watch some clips, here, here, and here.

[Kyle]

Its not like you have anything to loose by hoping something happens. It doesn't take time out of your day or anything.

[Sotiris]

It's not like you have anything to lose by hoping something happens. It doesn't take time out of your day or anything.

Waiting for something improbable to happen year after year takes an emotional toll on you. Getting your hopes up only to have them dashed over and over again is not pleasant. I just want people to realize that what they want is not realistic so as to manage their expectations and avoid further disappointment and heartbreak. But I understand that there are people who latch on to hope as a copying mechanism and find comfort in that which is perfectly acceptable too.

[Disney's Divinity]

I thought we had moved to the Acceptance Stage, but some may still be in the Bargaining Stage.

For example, Song of the Sea was made for $6m whereas Big Hero 6 for $165m.

Garbage costs a lot of money to make these days.

[JTurner]

It's not like you have anything to lose by hoping something happens. It doesn't take time out of your day or anything.

Waiting for something improbable to happen year after year takes an emotional toll on you. Getting your hopes up only to have them dashed over and over again is not pleasant. I just want people to realize that what they want is not realistic so as to manage their expectations and avoid further disappointment and heartbreak. But I understand that there are people who latch on to hope as a copying mechanism and find comfort in that which is perfectly acceptable too.

I'm just one of those people who doesn't believe in loosing hope altogether. It's not easy, I know, but it really hasn't weighed me down or anything.

I'm only sorry for those who have lost hope. Do things look bleak now? Sure. But realistic or not, there's nothing wrong with being hopeful as long as you manage expectations.

Sure, having too much faith CAN lead to disappointment sometimes, but for me it just doesn't work going the opposite direction. It just doesn't do me good. Not that I'm saying that hand drawn animation will make a comeback in the next three years or so, but giving up altogether… that just doesn't work for me. I feel that that's a bitter substitute.

[Sotiris]

Former Disney animator, Will Finn, talks about the future of 2D animation.

Q: How has the digital age impacted the way in which traditional animation is approached today?

Wil Finn: Well, if you’re talking about hand-drawn animation, it replaced it. In some ways, it replaced it faster than I thought it would. […]

I read the reviews for the [live-action] Jungle Book and they all compared it to the original. They always said it’s so much better than the old cartoon from 1967 because there’s so much more detail. I thought ‘Well, they’re two different mediums, really. You can’t compare them’. But then I thought ‘If I was young and just an average moviegoer and I looked at the hand-drawn one and then I saw this gorgeous CG one, I’d pick the CG’.

I can’t see the general audience going ‘Oh, boy! Let’s have another 2D movie’. It’s like saying let’s go back and make silent movies again. People don’t want to see that anymore. 2D will have a life on TV which is a more light-weight, faster thing but I don’t think it’s coming back on the big screen. It just can’t compete. People love reality. For most people, there’s an emotional impact that goes with the real: real form, real textures, real perspective. That’s more important to people than this sort of caricatured form that 2D lends itself to. I don’t think it’s coming back, unfortunately.

Source: http://mof1podcast.com/episode-21-2-san ... will-finn/

[JTurner]

Mr. Finn may have lost faith, but it's a good thing we have indies fighting back.