Song of the South: Too Offensive to Release on DVD?

[Big Disney Fan]

And, I mean, is less than 3 minutes of footage enough to ban a whole film? A G rated film, I mean?

I guess so.

[ajmrowland]

Many great points Netty. I agree that there is nothing overtly wrong with Song of the South. I think most of the controversy found in the film itself come from thinking too much into things, but again, my view is that if people say it is offensive to them, it's not my place to tell them why they shouldn't be offended or that their feelings are invalid. And with my small background in psychology, I recognize many of these instances in the film and that there are some questionable messages that a child could pick up from the film. I know that you live in the UK and I admit that I don't know a lot about racism there, but I'm sure that things are at least slightly different here in the US. I guess no one can really say what will happen until it has happened, but I do feel that if this film were ever widely released here, there would be lots of controversy and backlash towards Disney, which is what they are avoiding by not releasing it. Maybe it wouldn't happen, but the risk for Disney as a company is too great.

I could say that it's people like you, the kind who "know their place" that make progress of sensitivity so slow, and are part of the reason millions in the us alone are offended by many trivial things. I do understand that there are things that a child could pick up, but that's the parents' problem, and if they end up overreacting to things the kid's much less likely to be interested in, it (mostly)helps to try and reason with them. It may make you look weird, but gives them something to think about. And from what I know about the UK, they're quite a bit less protective of their children than people in the US. And people are already backlashing Disney for "That Cable Network". If you ask me, giving a wide yet unadvertised release of the film here wouldn't do nearly as much to their rep as putting it on the platinum/diamond list.

[goofystitch]

I could say that it's people like you, the kind who "know their place" that make progress of sensitivity so slow, and are part of the reason millions in the us alone are offended by many trivial things.

You're absolutely right. Because I am sensitive to what offends others and because I am not mad that Disney hasn't and doesn't want to release this film, I am slowing down progress of sensitive issues. Yes, I am the reason that so many are offended by "trivial things" like racism. "People like me" do that.

I never said that Disney shouldn't release the film. I said I understand why the don't want to. I would love for them to release it with a documentary that discusses the offensive material and puts it in the context of when the film was made and takes place, with commentary on how far we've come, and how far we have yet to go. Discussion leads to progress, but it never hurts to be sensitive to the issues at hand, something you are not doing by acting like Disney needs to release this movie now now now.

[ajmrowland]

I could say that it's people like you, the kind who "know their place" that make progress of sensitivity so slow, and are part of the reason millions in the us alone are offended by many trivial things.

You're absolutely right. Because I am sensitive to what offends others and because I am not mad that Disney hasn't and doesn't want to release this film, I am slowing down progress of sensitive issues. Yes, I am the reason that so many are offended by "trivial things" like racism. "People like me" do that.

I never said that Disney shouldn't release the film. I said I understand why the don't want to. I would love for them to release it with a documentary that discusses the offensive material and puts it in the context of when the film was made and takes place, with commentary on how far we've come, and how far we have yet to go. Discussion leads to progress, but it never hurts to be sensitive to the issues at hand, something you are not doing by acting like Disney needs to release this movie now now now.

I was well aware of you're response as I typed what I said. All I'm saying is that social movements and civil rights activists exist for a reason. They have the guts to voice their thoughts/opinions/issues in the face of ridicule.

To keep this topic from derailing, I'm all for a re-release, and agree with you on some level about sensitivity and families.

[Escapay]

I could say that it's people like you, the kind who "know their place" that make progress of sensitivity so slow, and are part of the reason millions in the us alone are offended by many trivial things.

<snip>

And from what I know about the UK, they're quite a bit less protective of their children than people in the US.

<snip>

I was well aware of you're response as I typed what I said.

Really? REALLY?



albert

[ajmrowland]

Laugh if you want. I have a point. It's just not all about racism.

[SpringHeelJack]

So... I guess if you think "Song of the South" might offend some... you're the REAL racist here. It all makes perfect sense.

Wait, no it doesn't.

[Cordy_Biddle]

To be truthful, I haven't seen SONG OF THE SOUTH since it was on TV when I was a kid. Don't remember much except a scene where Bobby Driscoll is trapped by a wire fence (?).

If GONE WITH THE WIND can present a story in the same historical time-frame and go on to be such a classic, even in these un-PC times, what on earth is so terribly wrong with SONG OF THE SOUTH?

[blackcauldron85]

If GONE WITH THE WIND can present a story in the same historical time-frame and go on to be such a classic, even in these un-PC times, what on earth is so terribly wrong with SONG OF THE SOUTH?

I agree. Some argue that SOTS is a "family" film (even though I saw GWtW as, well, maybe a teenager, but still). As I said, kids a) don't know about the Civil War, at least younger kids, unless they're super-interested in history, b) don't know about racism unless they are exposed to racist people (like their parents or grandparents), and c) would see the movie for what it is: a nice old man tells moral stories to a kid whose family isn't perfect.

And as I said, it's the people who complain to complain who make a fuss. I still say, why can Disney offend Native Americans and Japanese-Americans but not African Americans? I mean, I don't want Disney to offend everyone, and I think that the Wartime shorts are more offensive than SOTS, and not all African Americans are offended by SOTS.

Not to make this the pick-on-Alex thread, because I don't want to pick on you and think that's unfair, going back to Eminem: his lyrics are edited on the radio just as violent films are edited on TV. But the unedited lyrics are on the CD, and the unedited violence is on the DVD. It all comes down to parental discretion and education. If I had kids, I would, without a doubt, let them watch SOTS. I think a parent could set the scene, and depending on the kids' ages, let them know a little background on the Civil War and slaves and whatnot, but when it comes down to it, it's a movie about an old man who tells moral stories to a boy whose family isn't perfect. Good lessons to be learned.

While watching Song of The South, I realized that the film took place in the same world as Gone with the Wind (1939, Victor Fleming). Yet, while GWTW is revered as “the greatest Hollywood film,” Song of the South has been banished to memory and slowly decomposing video tape.

If I had kids, I'd let them watch both SOTS & GWTW. Obviously SOTS is more kid-friendly, but it's not like GWTW is really violent or anything, and little kids won't understand what Rhett is doing taking Scarlett up the staircase...As I said earlier in this post, what it comes down to is parental supervision and education.

[goofystitch]

While watching Song of The South, I realized that the film took place in the same world as Gone with the Wind (1939, Victor Fleming). Yet, while GWTW is revered as “the greatest Hollywood film,” Song of the South has been banished to memory and slowly decomposing video tape.

If I had kids, I'd let them watch both SOTS & GWTW. Obviously SOTS is more kid-friendly, but it's not like GWTW is really violent or anything, and little kids won't understand what Rhett is doing taking Scarlett up the staircase...As I said earlier in this post, what it comes down to is parental supervision and education.

The difference is that Gone With the Wind is a more historically accurate film representation of slaves which doesn't paint a sunny and happy version of it, whereas Song of the South portrays an ideal freed-slave to master relationship, which is not historically accurate. I'm not saying that Disney films need to be historically accurate, but when dealing with a very touchy subject like slavery, you really do have to tread water. I read somewhere once that when Song of the South was made, they were more concerned with not offending the white Americans who didn't like black because that was their audience. The 1940's were very different times.

Also, Gone With the Wind is a violent movie. It's not gory by today's terms and there aren't many swear words, so it's not PG-13, but there are lots of wounded soldiers (and dead) soldiers, which gets graphic at times, violence towards the slaves, rape, a murdered baby, and lots of death, including Scarlet's daughter. Luckily, Gone With the Wind has zero appeal to young children, so it's not really a matter of "should I let my kids watch this?" because they won't want to.

And thanks to Escapay and SpringHeelJack for sticking up for me. I was hoping I wasn't the only one who thought that sounded off-the-wall.

[Sotiris]

I never said that Disney shouldn't release the film. I said I understand why the don't want to. I would love for them to release it with a documentary that discusses the offensive material and puts it in the context of when the film was made and takes place, with commentary on how far we've come, and how far we have yet to go.

Well said.

[WilbyDaniels]

Disney is sl;ick. AS long as it is easily avaiable as a "bootleg"
'. Disney is not interfering with the copies being sold because their "Name/ company is not associated with it. So, anyone who wants it ,that badly , can order one without association with Disney.I don't think they will ever release it .(but never say Never)

[ajmrowland]

So... I guess if you think "Song of the South" might offend some... you're the REAL racist here. It all makes perfect sense.

Wait, no it doesn't.

When did I say that?

*sigh*I guess sometimes I don't really make much sense, but what I'm trying to say is that most people who pass a hitchhiker on the highway will leave it to the person behind them to pick them up, and that all forms of intolerance lead back to fear. Those are my two points here, even if they're difficult to put in words sometimes.

And maybe I was wrong about Goofystitch. I shouldn't have taken everything out on him. It's frustrating when people don't understand what you're saying.

[2099net]

The main problem is Disney is DISNEY. It sounds silly but Gone With the Wind is Warners (well actually Turner, but MGM to most people I guess thanks to the lion opening). But regardless, Gone with the Wind is from the same studios who brought us collectively The Excorcist, Child's Play, Coma, Poltergeist, Eyes Wide Shut and Deliverance.

People have a mindset about what Disney films should be. It appears even Ebert has it, which is a same, because I had lots of respect for him in the past (not due to his reviews which we don't see over here, but his few DVD commentaries). I would have though he of all people would have championed the masses having their views challenged (even if Song of the South would only slightly challenge them).

Of course, in order to make a profit over the past few decades, Disney has purposely lived up to the public's expectations. The creation of Hollywood Pictures and Touchstone Pictures may have enabled them to put out harder hitting stuff (some it it incredibly hard hitting) but thanks to clever marketing, the vast proportion of the audience don't know that Disney is involved with the gory Kill Bill or the controversial The Crow. Creating the new studios enabled Disney to spread its wings as a company, but ironically clip the wings of it's cash-cow brand: The Disney name.

So to a certain extent Disney has created this "monster" itself, even though Song of the South (with reasonably contextual information) is far from monstrous. Of course, it going to be even hard to release it now, not only because of an additional decade plus in the vault, but because there's so many news organisations which don't report news, but report opinion and speculation - an anti-Disney story would be like manna from heaven to some of them looking for cheap soundbites in order to increase ratings. I think Disney are too afraid of such a release becoming a media circus. They're probably right.

I don't doubt it a release would offend some people. You can't please everybody all of the time. That's life.

I'm all for correct political correctness because if done correctly and not allowed to become bigger than the issue in hand (like it often can), political correctness is only asking people to treat others with respect. I think presenting Song of the South with contextual information is showing respect, so I think its an appropriate way of releasing it. And any objection about the release could be justified by Disney simply by pointing to the same issues being raised in the text or documentary accompanying the release.

And I'm sorry, but if some people are offended, then the only answer for them is not to buy it and view it.

[SpringHeelJack]

Ditto to what Netty just said. Additionally, and I'm not saying I agree with Disney here, they have the point that it's intended for more of a younger / family audience, whereas "Gone With the Wind" is not necessarily. Not to mention "Gone With the Wind" accumulated more kudos that "Song of the South" did, so Warner can always flash those credentials. Plus, like Netty said, Warner and Disney are just two very different studios.

Not saying I agree with their reasoning, but that's the point they could make.

[Escapay]

So... I guess if you think "Song of the South" might offend some... you're the REAL racist here. It all makes perfect sense.

Wait, no it doesn't.

When did I say that?

When you villified goofystitch because he stated that he can see understand why Disney won't release Song of the South and you attempted to go on a tirade about how people who think like him are slowing progress and basically saying that if he thinks that, he's not helping people to understand why the film is *not* a bad film.

*sigh*I guess sometimes I don't really make much sense

most people who pass a hitchhiker on the highway will leave it to the person behind them to pick them up, and that all forms of intolerance lead back to fear. Those are my two points here, even if they're difficult to put in words sometimes.

There's a load of difference between passing a hitchhiker so someone else can pick them up and understanding why Disney won't release a film.

First off, nobody has some kind of responsibility or obligation to pick up a hitchhiker, and if they pass one, they pass one. You're not going to get a ticket or have it on your conscience. Nobody has a *need* to pick up hitchhikers. I doubt there's a Hitchhiker-Picker-Uppers Society that meet together once a month to discuss the hitchhikers they pick up, and if they passed one on the road so that a fellow picker-upper could get it.

And secondly, hitchhiking is dangerous. You never know what wackos you'll find, if you're the hitchhiker or the hitchhiker picker-upper.

How you relate hitchhiking to "I can see why Disney won't release Song of the South" is totally beyond me.

If someone states, "I would like the film to be released, but I can understand why Disney won't release it" it does not mean they're intolerant towards it. And it certainly doesn't mean they're intentionally trying to keep the ignorant people against the release as ignorant people. What responsibility does he have to them, that he has to make sure they actually know what it is they're against? Let them figure it out on their own if they wish.

albert

[SpringHeelJack]

So if we all pick up more hitchhikers, Disney will release "Song of the South" on two-disc DVD and Blu-ray?

[Escapay]

Yes.

albert

[SpringHeelJack]

My hitchhiker was really grizzled and dirty, but I picked him up anyhow because if not the racists win. Then he stabbed me in the thigh. Does this mean I get a free copy of "SOTS"?

[David S.]

First off, nobody has some kind of responsibility or obligation to pick up a hitchhiker, and if they pass one, they pass one. You're not going to get a ticket or have it on your conscience. Nobody has a *need* to pick up hitchhikers. I doubt there's a Hitchhiker-Picker-Uppers Society that meet together once a month to discuss the hitchhikers they pick up, and if they passed one on the road so that a fellow picker-upper could get it.

I couldn't resist looking it up, although these aren't exactly what you had in mind:

http://www.autostop.lt/links.php
http://www.remyc.com/hitch.html
http://www.hitchhikerrvclub.com
http://www.okhitchhikerclub.com/