Sleeping Beauty Discussion

[Disney's Divinity]

It looks like the right choice, yeah. But I've never really liked Phillip the character... He is handsome though, I can agree to that. Still, I'm glad to have characters like Kristoff who don't look model-esque. Still really wish we'd got Bastion though (from deleted Rapunzel artwork), that design was really cute.

[Sotiris]

Oh wow, I do not like that nose. Very glad Walt changed it. He always had a knack for this sort of stuff and this is just further proof.

I think we are all glad Philip's design got changed. Walt had a great sense of appeal, design, and aesthetics. I also recall him having Ward Kimball change Jiminy Cricket's design to make it more appealing.

[JeanGreyForever]

Oh wow, I do not like that nose. Very glad Walt changed it. He always had a knack for this sort of stuff and this is just further proof.

I think we are all glad Philip's design got changed. Walt had a great sense of appeal, design, and aesthetics. I also recall him having Ward Kimball change Jiminy Cricket's design to make it more appealing.

I actually didn't mind the original Jiminy Cricket design that actually resembled a cricket but I can see why he was changed because general audiences of the time probably wouldn't find him endearing that way. Also while he looked good to me on paper, that didn't necessarily mean he would have the same charm when animated in motion.

[Sotiris]

The 90-Year-Old Voice Of Sleeping Beauty Asks Disney Fans To Stop Contacting Her
https://www.cartoonbrew.com/disney/the- ... 95324.html

[Disney Duster]

I think her letter said it in the nicest way possible.

[Marce82]

What a lovely letter, and completely understandable.

I was lucky enough to meet her briefly, several years ago. I told her how wonderful her voice was, we took a picture and she was very gracious. I didn't have anything for her to sign, but some guy next to me had brought his Platinum Blu Ray, and was too nervous to ask her, so he asked me to have her sign it. She was very sweet about it.

And she looked AMAZING. So put together, so glamorous. And she hadn't aged a DAY in like 15 years...

Long Live the Princess Aurora!

[lord-of-sith]

How lucky we are to still have her among us! And still so well spoken and sharp, even at 90!

[disneyprincess11]

One of my favorite voices. Enjoy your golden years and relax, ma'am. You deserve it.

[Disney Duster]

That's wonderful Marce82 for what you did for that guy, and getting to see Mary herself!

Yes, so true lord-of-sith!

Haha, yes disneyprincess11, I agree.

[Disney's Divinity]

I watched SB on Blu-ray for the first time today! The film’s always been stunning and the upgrade didn’t disappoint.

I tend to be a sort of passive viewer the majority of the time, but for the first time watching the movie, I was like… Why is Flora going to put everyone to sleep?? Just to hide her own failure and spare them pain? That really wasn’t her choice to make… I know that’s the danger that sometimes comes with film in that it depicts something and the viewer just automatically accepts it as right simply because the world within the film acts as if it’s right—and, as I said, I’m a little too passive when watching movies a lot of the time. Not to say this was some horrible, heinous thing Flora did; it was just the first time I really asked myself—wait, what?—at that story beat. And wouldn’t putting everyone in the kingdom Aurora’s been living in asleep hypothetically impede the possibility of Aurora getting kissed by her True Love since the only people she might know will be asleep likewise? If Flora hadn’t just happened to hear Hubert talking and Phillip hadn’t just happened to be elsewhere at the time, everyone could’ve ended up asleep forever. I know, I know, fairy tale logic.

I still giggled at little things like Fauna trying to sing and then giving up when her voice cracks, or Hubert realizing he’s fighting with a fish instead of a sword and then putting it in his belt afterwards anyway. Maybe I was just in a good mood, but Aurora was a little less cold to me this viewing. I think it’s funny how the ‘50s had *so many* blonde and blue-eyed female characters. What’s a shame is Aurora and Phillip never actually get to sing together in “Once Upon a Dream.” She stops as soon as he starts, and then the choral part takes over. You never really get to hear the voices combined together, which is a shame.

Eleanor Audley’s voice acting is just so phenomenal, especially during the dungeon monologue at the end. Still amazing after all these years. I'm so glad they didn't go with making her older or ugly like in deleted scenes and/or early versions of the film, although it would be interesting to see how Maleficent would've looked in the finished film if she had actually appeared to Aurora as a woman working at the spindle wheel as happens in the fairy tale. Maleficent is a very beautiful character. Cruella is pretty at many moments, too. I had a thought when watching the scenes and it goes back to how I've wondered before why the Renaissance wouldn't have had more female villains after TLM's success. I wonder if part of it is that Ursula is an old school witch and a hag, and that might've been seen as more of a been-there-done-that "Walt thing" (diva villainesses in general were common in Walt's day, too) and the new blood artists of the Renaissance simply wanted to forge in different directions that hadn't been done as much by Walt overall? They did bring a great deal many great male villains to life with Frollo, Scar, Hades, Jafar, etc., so I guess it was worth having something different as long as they were successful attempts. If all those villains had ended up as bland as Clayton though, I'd say they shouldn't have shied away from Walt-esque villainesses.

Watching most of the bonus features, it’s interesting to me that Walt decided to make a film where the design wouldn’t lose itself in translation to the final film because he felt Mary Blair’s work on Cinderella, Alice, etc. was never completely realized the way he wanted. What I don’t understand is, why did he then choose to get someone else entirely like Earle to design the film rather than let *Blair* have a go at making a film where her design was fully-envisioned onscreen for once?

[Marce82]

Hey Disney Divinity....

You make some interesting points. I guess it would have made more sense for the fairies to put the castle to sleep AFTER they found out about Phillip. Although... maybe Flora was thinking they could find the "man in the forest" Briar Rose had spoken about to get him to kiss her. But yeah... the everyone-asleep notion is from the original fairy tale. It's about walking into a castle that is frozen in time... and how eerie that would be. And keep in mind, in the original tale, she sleeps for 100 years and she had never met the prince!

As for the duet... Im pretty sure if you find the "Once Upon a Dream: the making of sleeping beauty" doc (both on laserdisc, the special ed dvd and maybe even the 1997 vhs), there is a duet version during the closing credits. It's definitely Mary Costa singing... not sure if it's Bill Shirley with her.

Also found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo_NfXtaO2w

A lil too operatic for my taste.

And about Mary Blair... her style is great, but it doesn't quite fit the epic, 70mm cinemascope grandiosity Walt wanted for this film. This is a very medieval-set film... Earle style fits it better than Blair's, IMO.

[Disney's Divinity]

A lil too operatic for my taste.

Same.

[Marce82]

Disney Divinity,

Funny we both had the same impression. Oddly enough, Mary Costa's voice sounds a lot lighter in the film, a little more natural. Like you can see she could sing opera, but she is singing a little more like a regular girl. And that works for me...

Side note: if you watch the "current" spanish dub of the film, the girl singing for Aurora can't reach the high notes. It's pathetic... the original spanish dub (used 1959-2002), they had an incredible opera singer singing for Aurora... sigh.

[Disney Duster]

Marce82, that's such a shame about the Spanish dub.

Pertaining to what was recently discussed, they do not say the whole kingdom was in the castle, and the fairies suspected a peasant, not a noble, to be Aurora's true love.

[Redadoodles]

It looks like the right choice, yeah. But I've never really liked Phillip the character... He is handsome though, I can agree to that. Still, I'm glad to have characters like Kristoff who don't look model-esque. Still really wish we'd got Bastion though (from deleted Rapunzel artwork), that design was really cute.

I would take Phillip any day over Kristoff. Both are used as props but Phillip has less screen time so it is not that noticeable. One of the reasons I dislike Phillip (even though he's the most gorgeous Disney prince in my opinion) is because:

1. He is willing to sacrifice the future of his kingdom without thinking twice about it. On the other hand, Aurora chooses her duty over her soulmate (even though it breaks her heart).

2. He decides to snub Princess Aurora (who's been gone for sixteen years) in order to go back to the forrest . So not only he's willing to cancel their wedding but he also refused to attend her birthday/homecoming celebration.

[Disney's Divinity]

I would take Phillip any day over Kristoff. Both are used as props but Phillip has less screen time so it is not that noticeable.

It's your prerogative (I find Kristoff very cute), but I can't agree with the assessment of Kristoff as a prop at all. While he isn't as developed as Anna or Elsa, he's not the cardboard cutout that both Phillip and Aurora are.

2. He decides to snub Princess Aurora (who's been gone for sixteen years) in order to go back to the forrest . So not only he's willing to cancel their wedding but he also refused to attend her birthday/homecoming celebration.

At first, I thought you were saying what you like about Phillip, and only realized you said dislike after-the-fact. Because of that confusion on my part, I actually came to agree with the above reason as something good about Phillip the more I thought about it. It actually makes him seem more in love with Briar Rose that he would snub a woman he's never met and the prestige / power she would bring him in marriage to be with Briar Rose. The fact that he gets to have his cake and eat it, too, makes the ending even happier.

I still don't much like Phillip though.

[Redadoodles]

I would take Phillip any day over Kristoff. Both are used as props but Phillip has less screen time so it is not that noticeable.

It's your prerogative (I find Kristoff very cute), but I can't agree with the assessment of Kristoff as a prop at all. While he isn't as developed as Anna or Elsa, he's not the cardboard cutout that both Phillip and Aurora are.

2. He decides to snub Princess Aurora (who's been gone for sixteen years) in order to go back to the forrest . So not only he's willing to cancel their wedding but he also refused to attend her birthday/homecoming celebration.

At first, I thought you were saying what you like about Phillip, and only realized you said dislike after-the-fact. Because of that confusion on my part, I actually came to agree with the above reason as something good about Phillip the more I thought about it. It actually makes him seem more in love with Briar Rose that he would snub a woman he's never met and the prestige / power she would bring him in marriage to be with Briar Rose. The fact that he gets to have his cake and eat it, too, makes the ending even happier.

I still don't much like Phillip though.

When I say that Kristoff is a prop, I actually mean that he's only there to let Anna choose to save her sister instead of herself. I feel bad for the guy actually haha.

[DisneyFan09]

I would take Phillip any day over Kristoff. Both are used as props but Phillip has less screen time so it is not that noticeable. One of the reasons I dislike Phillip (even though he's the most gorgeous Disney prince in my opinion) is because:

1. He is willing to sacrifice the future of his kingdom without thinking twice about it. On the other hand, Aurora chooses her duty over her soulmate (even though it breaks her heart).

2. He decides to snub Princess Aurora (who's been gone for sixteen years) in order to go back to the forrest . So not only he's willing to cancel their wedding but he also refused to attend her birthday/homecoming celebration.

You know what? Lately I`ve come across a couple of threads who actually praises Aurora for the things you`ve said. Regardless of how the movie never truly shows that Aurora is truly willing to choose her duty (at the end, it`s doubious that the Goodfairies would force her), she does the right thing at the end.

The fact that he gets to have his cake and eat it, too, makes the ending even happier.

Well, at the end both of them gets their cake and gets to eat them, too As for all the criticisms about how trite and conventional their love arc is, at least it`s clever how they both get to meet each other, without realizing that they`ve met their betrothal (which their parental figures confronts them with).

[Redadoodles]

I would take Phillip any day over Kristoff. Both are used as props but Phillip has less screen time so it is not that noticeable. One of the reasons I dislike Phillip (even though he's the most gorgeous Disney prince in my opinion) is because:

1. He is willing to sacrifice the future of his kingdom without thinking twice about it. On the other hand, Aurora chooses her duty over her soulmate (even though it breaks her heart).

2. He decides to snub Princess Aurora (who's been gone for sixteen years) in order to go back to the forrest . So not only he's willing to cancel their wedding but he also refused to attend her birthday/homecoming celebration.

You know what? Lately I`ve come across a couple of threads who actually praises Aurora for the things you`ve said. Regardless of how the movie never truly shows that Aurora is truly willing to choose her duty (at the end, it`s doubious that the Goodfairies would force her), she does the right thing at the end.

The fact that he gets to have his cake and eat it, too, makes the ending even happier.

Well, at the end both of them gets their cake and gets to eat them, too As for all the criticisms about how trite and conventional their love arc is, at least it`s clever how they both get to meet each other, without realizing that they`ve met their betrothal (which their parental figures confronts them with).

Except that Aurora deserves her happy ending for being selfless. Indeed, she would be forced to follow the fairies anyway but mainly because there was still a curse on her at that point. There would be no point in defying anyone when she was still in mortal danger. Phillip on the other hand is selfish and .. HE DOESN'T EVEN KILL MALEFICENT. Fauna helps him with that at 90%.
The only prince that is more moronic or selfish to me is probably Derek from Columbia's Swan Princess. (Who's based on Phillip --' ).

[Redadoodles]

Have you guys noticed that whenever some drama happens in the film it is BECAUSE of Merryweather ? Haha.. Like every single time.