60's & 70's Aspect Ratios (from Sword in the Stone)

[drfsupercenter]

That theory is good, except you're giving Disney too much credit.

It's probably "n00b cropped" like the rest of them.

1.75:1 is just a number - I could take any print of that movie and make it fit that size... whether it's done properly or not. It's the correct RATIO, but we don't actually have proof that it's the correct framing.
And I kinda like the open matte version more. That being said I can barely tolerate singing cats as it is

--EDIT--

And whoops, I completely forgot about that Mary Poppins laserdisc! And it ended for a mere $4!

If I find another cheap one I'll feed it to AuctionSniper this time.

[disneyfella]

It's not like the aperture was panning and scanning the image for a 1.75:1 image. By the late 1950s all 'cropping' or 'matting' was done equally off the top and bottom leaving the center of the frame the primary image. That's how filmmakers knew how to frame the image on the screen, because they knew exactly which parts would be matted out.

My guess is that Disney wouldn't use a travelling matte throughout the movie to completely reframe it for a DVD release. Now you're giving Disney too much credit...that would be too expensive and actually take time and effort.

You can actually prove that this DVD is released in the proper OAR because all you have to do is take the Gold Collection disc and manually center matte the film. Then compare that print to the Special Edition print.

[disneyfella]

And whoops, I completely forgot about that Mary Poppins laserdisc! And it ended for a mere $4!

If I find another cheap one I'll feed it to AuctionSniper this time.

One of the docs I'm rotating with just told me about those sniper programs....I so need to get me one of those LOL! I'll keep my eyes peeled for those Poppins laserdiscs if you keep me posted on any "Something Wicked This Way Comes" laserdiscs you find

[drfsupercenter]

Well, I can try cropping the GCC myself... generally I just stock up on open mattes by nature though. (ESPECIALLY since any TV can turn open matte into "theatrical matted" in the case of equal cropping... on a 16:9 TV you use the "Zoom" button. That would make it 1.78:1 but that's so close it's not even a big deal.)
Plus, as I said, Aristocats is way at the bottom of my list of DACs by how much I liked them...

The site is just called www.auctionsniper.com, and you can get a few for free (You get more for every person you refer so if you DO sign up tell them I referred you )

Right now there's none of the Archive collection for auction. Only in the eBay stores and those are like $25.

[Escapay]

Thanks as always, disneyfella, for the pressbook information.

albert

(eta: I originally had other stuff here, but I figured it's not worth arguing about. If people just want to believe what they want to believe despite evidence to the contrary, I'm not going to bother trying to correct them.)

[drfsupercenter]

Heh, it's funny how I can copy and paste small text into Notepad so I can actually read it

Was that aimed at me?

What I'm saying is... just because a DVD is a certain ratio doesn't mean anything. Mary Poppins is 1.66:1, which is also the original negative ratio, but it's anything but the original negative ratio on DVD.

So that new disc is the original theatrical ratio, sure, but it could also be improperly cropped like the rest of Disney's releases.

Ultimately I'm in favor of having both the open matte and theatrically matted versions on one disc (like Finding Nemo, or something to that effect), but if I had to choose one I'd pick open matte. Because you can always subtract picture, but you can't add what isn't there. (Same goes for fullscreen movies... I'll buy the widescreen any day and if my sisters want it to fill the screen they can use the "zoom" button on my DVD player)
And are there any Disney movies that they actually move the frame around within the matte (like they did for Back to the Future)? Because from what I can see they just chop the same amount off the top and bottom so it's really easy to redo in any video program or encoder.

[2099net]

Even if the cropping is somehow incorrect (which I doubt), surely it's still more accurate than a full frame presentation?

The arguments now are getting really desperate and petty.

Now there's only one remaining mystery for Disneyfella to solve: The mythical Fox and the Hound OAR!

[Flanger-Hanger]

Even if the cropping is somehow incorrect (which I doubt), surely it's still more accurate than a full frame presentation?

The arguments now are getting really desperate and petty.

Now there's only one remaining mystery for Disneyfella to solve: The mythical Fox and the Hound OAR!

That's already been done thanks to clips from an old Disney animation special. The clips shown were matted academy when compared to screenshots form the film.

[disneyfella]

Now there's only one remaining mystery for Disneyfella to solve: The mythical Fox and the Hound OAR!

LOL! I actually ordered some premiere release stuff from "Fox and the Hound" last week. I'm hoping that the pressbook is included. I've been trying to track this one down for a while.....soon, though.......soon

I'm at least happy to hear that more than 3 or 4 people are actually interested in this info. It's getting mildly expensive to collect these things, and somehow with more people getting something out of it, it makes it a little more worth it. (If only I could say the same for my collecting back issues of "Starlog" or "The Disney Channel Magazine")

[Flanger-Hanger]

Disneyfella, I saw the press book for The Happiest Millionaire for sale on ebay, would that let us know if 1.66:1 is the right ratio for it?

[disneyfella]

Yep! The "Pressbook" will usually have the projection instructions on the first or second page.

The problem begins in the mid 1980s when Walt Disney Productions expanded to Walt Disney Pictures (beginning with "Never Cry Wolf"). The marketing changed and for a while you had both "Pressbooks" and "Press kits". Then by the end of the 1980s I've only been able to find "Press kits" and it seems the 'pressbooks' were phased out by that time.

This is by no means a rule-of-thumb or encyclopedic explanation....just the trends I've been able to notice. I could be totally wrong with the marketing changes. I haven't found ANY 'press kits' for anything before 1980 from Disney, though.


But in short.....yes. The 'pressbook' is what you are looking for.

::runs to ebay to check out the pressbook::

[disneyfella]

I actually got several pressbooks the other day, and am slowing posting the info on here to make them last longer (it may be a while before I get to buy more for a while).

Anyway, it appears that ANOTHER of Disney's films have actually been released in the proper theatrical framing:

"The Apple Dumpling Gang" 1975 Premiere Release Information

"Mr. Exhibitor: The Aspect Ratio To Best Exhibit The Hilarious Wild West Action In The Apple Dumpling Gang Is 1-75 To 1."



I'll update it on the post on the previous page as well.

[disneyfella]

Got another pressbook in.....

"Ride a Wild Pony" 1975 Premiere Release information:

(NOTE: When "Ride a Wild Pony" premiered, it was attached with a re-release of the 1941 full length animated feature, "Dumbo")

"The Aspect Ratio for "Ride A Wild Pony" and "Dumbo" to achieve the best screen image is 1:75 to 1"

(NOTE: While the theatrical ratio for "Ride a Wild Pony" is 1.75:1, the DVD release is 1.33:1. Also, apparently "Dumbo" was presented in 1975 in an aspect ratio of 1.75:1 which hadn't been invented until almost 15 years after "Dumbo" premiered, and therefore this showing is an example of the critically frowned upon re-release of Disney animated films in improper aspect ratios)

[disneyfella]

This post has been edited and bumped to page 16.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Good to hear Aristocats was done right! (well ratio wise, bonuses could have been better)

[disneyfella]

I found an auction on ebay for a pressbook of "Pete's Dragon" from its 1977 premiere. This clearly states the aspect ratio of the film.....(and the current DVD release of it is in an improper aspect ratio!!!). Check out the link:


http://cgi.ebay.com/1977-MOVIE-PRESSBOO ... 18Q2el1247



If you read the top left of the pressbook picture it says:

"So Elliott the Dragon can be seen at his brazzle dazzle best please project "Pete's Dragon" at the aspect ratio of 1.75 to 1".


Usually there is a special message explaining how important it is that the film be screened in the proper ratio, and I'm wondering if the black box next to this caption is that message. I couldn't make it out, and can't quite afford to purchase a bunch more pressbooks right now (I do have a few more on the way so I can update here accordingly).

Now, the movie was filmed as almost EVERY movie was (and has been) in a full frame ratio and screened in theatres widescreen (1.75:1). It has also seen a VHS release in an open matte transfer (1.33:1). Also the Gold Collection DVD release of the film is (1.66:1).

Three different aspect ratios for this film have been released. Which is the Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio? Why isn't the original theatrical aspect ratio available to the public? Is there a widescreen laserdisc out there in the proper ratio? Come on Disney!! Get your act together and preserve these films as they were originally seen!!!!

I popped in my Gold Collection DVD of "Pete's Dragon" and caught myself wondering if it isn't actually 1.75:1 on the DVD instead of 1.66:1 like the back of the box says. I can't measure it or anything (my TV has overscan), but it looks like the black bars are bigger than they should be if it was simply 1.66:1 (like on "Lady and the Tramp II: Scamp's Adventure").

Can anyone verify that the "Pete's Dragon" DVD is not actually in 1.75:1 ratio? I know what the box says, but I was hoping the box was simply a mis-print (it's happened before).j


EDIT:

Sorry I should've done some more digging. I measured the screencaps taken for the ultimatedisney.com review of the "Pete's Dragon" Gold Collection disc and sure enough - it is 1.66:1. Shucks!

I can't stand watching the movie if I know it is misframed!!!!

Disney better fix this for the Special Edition DVD treatment.

[disneyfella]

I found this link online which shows some more aspect ratios:

http://www.ioffer.com/i/Vintage-Disney- ... k-73806356

According to this pressbook for the re-release of "The World's Greatest Athlete" and "Snowball Express" the aspect ratio for both films on this re-release were 1.75:1


According to this 1973 combo-release pressbook:

"MR. EXHIBITOR...PLEASE NOTE! For best screen presentation, project these films at the aspect ratios indicated below:

The World's Greatest Athlete aspect ratio 1:75 to 1

Snowball Express aspect ratio 1:75 to 1"

(NOTE: While the pressbook states that both films should be shown in 1.75:1, "Snowball Express" is on DVD in 1.33:1, and "The World's Greatest Athlete" is on DVD in 1.85:1)

[disneyfella]

Finally, after a MONTH of "back and forth" with a pretty dead beat ebay seller I got my copy of "The Fox and the Hound" pressbook in today. As I had guessed, the aspect ratio for the film was in fact widescreen, and actually the pretty common Disney aspect ratio of 1.75:1

"The Fox and the Hound" 1981 Premiere Release Press Information:

"The Aspect Ratio For A Sparkling Image Is 1:75 To 1"

(NOTE: While the Theatrical framing of the film was 1.75:1, the DVD release is 1.33:1)


That makes 2 verified animated films that were premiered in a matted widescreen aspect ratio. This means that from almost day 1 the animators knew what ratio to frame the film in, and the theatres knew what ratio to project the film in. This was the ratio intended to be seen at least for "The Aristocats" and "The Fox and the Hound".

[Flanger-Hanger]

Who wants to bet Robin Hood's 1.75:1 DVD is right too and The Rescuers and The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh's 1.66:1 are undermatted?

If Aristocats to Fox and the Hound are 1.75:1 then all we need to know is what were the ratios for 101 Dalmatians to Jungle Book.

[disneyfella]

I'm kind of on the same notion as you are, Flanger. I'm pretty sure that "Robin Hood" and "The Rescuers" were probably 1.75:1. "Winnie the Pooh" however, was originally released as several short subjects. There is a small chance that when it was released as a compilation feature, the original short subject aspect ratios were maintained (whatever they were). However, I'm more inclined to think that when the compilation feature "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" was released to theatres it was probably instructed to be matted in the all too familiar Disney ratio of 1.75:1. However, it might also have been 1.66:1 if the shorts were originally projected in Academy ratio.

I'm pretty sure that "The Jungle Book" was released in 1.75:1 in theatres (despite the DVDs matte job of 1.85:1).

I asked someone who has the 101 Dalmatians original release pressbook to check into the aspect ratio, and their response was that on there is no matting instructions whatsoever. Disney apparenlty did NOT specifically state what aspect ratio the film should be shown in (which leads me to beleive that it was probably framed and shown in Academy Ratio...I doubt in 1961 Disney would instruct a film to be shown in Academy Ratio, but rather only instruct if the the projectionist was supposed to matte the film, a technique that was less than 10 years old).

That being said, however, this contact did report that a 1979 re-release pressbook stated that "101 Dalmatians" was instructed to be matted to a screen image of 1.75:1. I'm going to have to dig further on the original release of Dalmatians, but here is my take on it:

"101 Dalmatians" probably was framed and projected in Academy Ratio upon its premiere. Disney hadn't matted any animated films at that point. The only widescreen animated films were using scope lenses. It is "Sword in the Stone" and "The Jungle Book" which might hold the key as to when the matting of animated films and altered framing began.

We know this at least started in 1970 with "The Aristocats", but I am pretty sure that "The Jungle Book" was also 1.75:1.

The hunt continues to explain what Disney clearly has no clue about........their own catalog of films.




EDIT: I'm also curious about "The Great Mouse Detective" and "Oliver and Company" aspect ratios....I seriously doubt Disney was releasing animated features in the 1980s at 1.66:1.......who knows.