What's your religion?

[Goliath]

@ Siren: you are completely correct with your posts about the origins and uses of fairy tales, and their relation to (Christian) religion. I remember being amazed when I learned all this in college. All those connections... It blew my mind. It's good to see you posting about it, although you probably won't convince the die-hard believers. But then again, believing is not rational.

[Siren]

Super Aurora, essentially you are telling me what to believe. The people who wrote the Bible believed Jesus was doing something that was not magic, as Jesus told them it was not magic, as well. If they differentiate between miracles and magic, while Wicca differentiates between bad religious magic and good religious magic, and Disney and fairy tales differentiate beween bad made-up magic their fairies and witches have and good made-up magic their fairies and witches have, then acknowledge the differences that they intended.

Deciding to think of it all as the same thing is what you can believe, but not everyone, especially the people who thought of those differences when they wrote those tales, as well as the thing that real people believe in, divinity and miracles that is not magic.

You might as well say what the Greek gods did was magic or that God making Adam was magic, or do you mean magic is when a mortal or human does something supernatural? Otherwise you might as well say the world existing was magic because that was made in a way no ordinary human ever could, whether you believe it was God or what.

Magic....miracle.....Different word, same meaning. Moses walked around with a staff, performing magical acts, all he needed was a pointy hat and a beard and he was Gandalf in Egypt. Jesus walked on water, turned water into wine, maybe he wasn't the Son of God, maybe he was a gifted wizard/witch. If you took away the words, God, Jesus, etc and said, "A man came to the village, he took a bowl of water, touched it and it became the sweetest wine.".....sounds pretty magical to me.

[Disney Duster]

Goliath, believing isn't rational? Well, that's what you...believe.

Well Super Aurora, you also seem to be misunderstanding me as much as I may have been misunderstanding you.

And how is any magic from religion sparkly or with puffs of smoke?

Those are special effects invented for made-up magic in fairy tale illustrations, cartoons and movies. They may be inspired by smoke from candles religious people lit, or the stars that they say they get their power from, but no real religious magic has stars or smoke literally appear out of nowhere as the form of their magic, not like in the movies (Cinderella was the first place anywhere to have such sparkly magic).

If some religion could make that happen, well hot dog! I'd like to see!

Siren, I don't understand. I thought you understood there is a difference between magic and miracles. If you don't know it, well, the authors of the Bible did, and many people of many faiths do, and believe in it. But when you admit there's a difference between Harry Potter/fairy tale magic and religious magic, between magic and magick, I would think you would also know there is a difference between magic and miracles, something divine and something magical. I think you do, but you're arguing for arguments sake, comparing something to something else and ignoring the difference.

[Siren]

Siren, I don't understand. I thought you understood there is a difference between magic and miracles. If you don't know it, well, the authors of the Bible did, and many people of many faiths do, and believe in it. But when you admit there's a difference between Harry Potter/fairy tale magic and religious magic, between magic and magick, I would think you would also know there is a difference between magic and miracles, something divine and something magical. I think you do, but you're arguing for arguments sake, comparing something to something else and ignoring the difference.

Let me put this in different terms.....

When I perform a spell, I am asking a specific god or goddess to lend me their powers, so I can make what I need happen. If I did what I was suppose to do right and its the will of that god or goddess, it will happen.

How do I get that power? I pray, I chant, I sing.

When you want something....what do you do? You pray. You chant. You sing. If its God's will and you are doing God's work, you get your prayers answered.

Its just a different word, but magic and miracles, they have the SAME outcome.

[Super Aurora]

Well Super Aurora, you also seem to be misunderstanding me as much as I may have been misunderstanding you.

Uhh no I understand exactly what you're saying. It's you who don't which is what I will explain for your quote below.

And how is any magic from religion sparkly or with puffs of smoke?

That's the point you're missing. Magic isn't just "sparkles or puffs of smoke" You're only thinking magic though the stereotypical image of magic. Magic is way more than just that.

Here's definition of Magic

Main Entry: 1mag·ic
Pronunciation: \ˈma-jik\
Function: noun

1 a : an extraordinary power or influence seemingly from a supernatural source

Is that not what Jesus and others did?

[Siren]

I must say, I've done plenty of spells. None of them include sparkles and "puffs" of smoke. Smoke when burning thinks but no "POOF!" kinda stuff. That's completely from the fictional magic.


Like I said....3 meanings of magic in the REAL WORLD. Not talking movies here.

1.)Magic as in illusions and magic shows. Such as David Copperfield and Sigfried and Roy.

2.)Magic as in an emotion you feel. A way to describe something that makes you feel happy and euphoric. Such as the feeling of flying, being in love, holding your baby in your arms for the first time. All these can be "magical feelings".

3.)Magic as in a supernatural act. Such as a spell to make it rain or the ability to walk on water. Its doing something against "the norm" of nature. A power you have to go beyond what is within the natural world.

[Disney Duster]

No Siren, you are putting that god or goddesses power in you to use. God is within me and maybe does things to or for me, but I cannot "use" his power. Plus you are forgetting that any being that isn't God, according to my religion, would not be a god but be ether false or some spirit of the occult or something. Some occult power that isn't God, and is bad. In my religion. So again it wouldn't be the same thing.

Jesus was God. So he could do what God could, of course.

The Bible may have been forbidding a magic other than the kind you use today, but of course it also forbid any other gods or religion which would also count that.

To you and Super Aurora: The dictionary can say that, and you two can say that. Of course the dictionary is not going to differentiate between magic and miracles or works of God, because the dictionary can not pertain to any religion, it won't get too specific in its definitions or differentiate.

But like I said, with that definition being taken so broadly, you might as well say the world existing was magic.

Siren, you know when you talk to people about your religion you say you perform magic because people of other religions do not do that in their religion. You know it's different. But it doesn't matter. I understand the difference between what Jesus and Moses and God himself did and magic, and if you don't, that's just yet another thing you and Super Aurora don't believe or I guess don't understand, but I and many others do.

[Siren]

And you think your religion is the one true religion.

That's the big difference between you and me any why we will never agree on religion.

Wicca is NOT the one true religion. Because there is NO one true religion. I'm not gonna tell you your God and Jesus is false.

And the whole Jesus IS God...Why did God impregnate a woman and allow her to be stoned and hated? Why not just come down to Earth himself and let himself get crucified? Why bring a child onto this earth that is YOU and let that all happen to him? God has some serious double personality issues there. You can't be a father and your own son. I accept the fact Jesus was God's son. I accept the fact Jesus was a living breathing person who did extraordinary things, I don't accept the words from some old man who wasn't even alive when Jesus was, saying, "Jesus is God". That's when Christians start getting a bit too Westboro to me. But saying Jesus IS God is better than saying Jesus is a god because that would go against the whole, "God is the only god" thing. Christians worship God and Jesus....two deities. Sounds pretty Pagan to me. Same with all the saints and angels. All prayed to. If God is the only God, why have saints at all? Why have a son?

In Wicca, its well know, God and Goddess bare children and when God and Goddess died (with each new year), their children are then born and God and Goddess are reborn again. I celebrate my new year on October 31st, it signals the beginning of winter. The beginning of the God and Goddess' death. The trees "die", the plants "die", the earth is cold like the dead. Come spring, it is reborn, as are the God and Goddess. That makes sense to me.

And you are not understanding what I am saying, I am not "using" their powers in the way you think. Its a request from me, not an order. Frankly its a prayer. Like saying, "Please help me heal his wound". If its your's or my god(s) will, then we are given that power, through them.

You are just bothered by the fact that I am comparing Paganism and Christianity. They got a lot in common you know. For instance, the Holy Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Well in most Celtic derived Paganaisim, we have the Triple Goddess. The Maiden, the Mother, and the Crone. Fact is, Christianity ripped a lot of Paganisim off. Decorating eggs and trees for holidays, Pagan. Gathering family and friends in celebration and giving gifts in winter time, Pagan. The Cross, Pagan.

Frankly, Christianity is a pretty "new" religion in the history of time. Its a mishmash of many religions, all pagan. Like I made the comparison of Hercules and Zeus and Jesus and God.

If there is one true religion, its been lost in time. It was a religion before reading and writing, it was passed down verbally and then spread across the 4 corners and just like any story, the more people who tell it, the more it changes. Which is the birth of ALL religions. And this is why I feel ALL religions are right. They are right for someone after all. And they are all based on that first religion.

And actually, I usually choose the word ritual, over magick.

And I know the Bible forbids all other gods and magic. But then again, the Bible forbids a lot of things, you probably do. Or have family who does. And yet you still call yourself Christian, right? For instance, the Bible forbids gay love. Face it... The Bible is OUTDATED. And the picking and choosing of what you want to believe and don't want to believe from the Bible is hypocritical. If you are going to use the Bible as a reason to tell me my religion is wrong, because the Bible told you so, then please, go tell every gay person they are wrong. That would be interesting indeed.

If you stood here and said you believed every single thing the Bible said was right and agreed with every bit, there wouldn't be much argument from me. But it just irks me when Christians pick and choose verses from the Bible that suit their needs and anything they are doing that the Bible calls sinful, well, in that case, the Bible isn't right or is outdated. You can't have it both ways. The Bible tells you not to judge, but it also teaches you HOW to judge. For instance, back to gays....don't judge God's children, but kill the gays? Isn't that judging them?

Case in point....

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?
October 2002

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

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[Super Aurora]

To you and Super Aurora: The dictionary can say that, and you two can say that. Of course the dictionary is not going to differentiate between magic and miracles or works of God, because the dictionary can not pertain to any religion, it won't get too specific in its definitions or differentiate.

That's the most stupidest thing I've heard in awhile. You are truly blinded by your religion.

Siren pretty much cover everything else for me.

[Siren]

To you and Super Aurora: The dictionary can say that, and you two can say that. Of course the dictionary is not going to differentiate between magic and miracles or works of God, because the dictionary can not pertain to any religion, it won't get too specific in its definitions or differentiate.

That's the most stupidest thing I've heard in awhile. You are truly blinded by your religion.

Siren pretty much cover everything else for me.

Sorry, maybe I should hand the soapbox over now and then. I have problems with sharing

[disneyboy20022]

people people please.....Even though I am a christian....I don't go around telling people that their religion is wrong....and I don't find it right to tell people that their belief is wrong...maybe I'm just not the missionary type but I don't find right at all asking people who are either aeithist hindu, Wicca or whatever religion or simply don't care I don't believe in resulting to asking what if your wrong and I'm right.....because when you put it that way it sound smore like a lottery or a raffle fund to get into.....honestly its not something you try to sell....relgion that is...Yes in my opinion I believe in trust in God and all that and I believe myself to be a christian....but just because a person is not a Christian doens't mean I don't talk to them or befriend them...I have friends who arent christians at least to my knowledge....for me...I trust in God that we are all here for a purpose.....as im sure many other religions also say that in a way...im just saying....So what if Disney Duster and I are christians and SA and Siren dont follow that path...so what? I mean are you going to stop talking to each other?? I mean.....can't we all get along even if our take on religon is differ.........my late grandpa of 17 years use to say....If the all the guys in the world only liked one woman...we would be in trouble then which translates into to each their own....

[Siren]

I'm not saying Christianity is wrong. I am simply pointing out the false truths within it. I repeatably said how I felt that even I don't feel my religion is for everyone. But many Christians like to bash people over the head that Christianity is the only way. Its people's choice to be what religion they want, but don't say they are right and everyone else is wrong and not expect someone to defend their own beliefs. I am simply pointing out the fact that Christianity has many Pagan themes, because Christianity borrowed/used them. They used them because they were trying to ease Pagans into the Christian way of life and the easiest way to do that was adopt their holidays, traditions, customs and beliefs. Meaning...Christianity was certainly not the first religion, or the one true right religion for this world. I don't want everyone to be Wicca either though. I like the diversity of religions. But I don't like the oblivious ignorance. I am willing to sit here and admit my religion has a dark past and has a dark side. But put the facts on the board about Christianity's own shortcomings and I'm going to hell.

[yamiiguy]

I'm a 100% Athiest though I do like Buddhism but couldn't possibly strictly follow it. I certainly do not believe in God or in deities or in creationism and I would defend evolution etc. to my very last breath. I respect other religions however and find them very interesting, RME is one of my favourite subjects.

[ajmrowland]

Yeah, I'm still non-religious. SOMETHING had to create the Universe!

[Disney Duster]

Misunderstandings abound.

I used terms like "according to my religion" and "in my religion", trying to stress that that was just what one religion said and believed and what I also believe.

Siren, you somehow missed that and took a big opportunity to defend your religion. Well, at least you got to say some things you wanted to say. But I never said your religion was wrong, even though my religon says that, too, but I was explaining what my religion believes. It seems people ignore details more than I thought, even when I stress them.

I don't remember Mary getting stoned, you may have read that some place you think it is official information but it's not, or maybe it really is in the Bible, I just have not read that in there.

God became a human possibly to see how it feels and he probably could have done it another way but what we believe is he had to come down, be like us, and then die for us so we could go to Heaven, to go through all that pain and suffering, to be like us, feel like us, then save us. It's a pretty cool mysterious thing that I do not fully understand and shouldn't, it's God, it's power I will never fully understand. But it speaks to me and touches me and I believe it. You say "you can't be father to your own son", well that's what you say, we can't understad it all, this is an all powerful God that human logic cannot completely comprehend. And the people who wrote the Bible heard that Jesus was God. Jesus revealed it somehow or it was revealed somehow spiritually which also has to do with the divine inspiration the writers had to write the Bible in the first place. And Jesus is not a deity except that he is the one only deity, a different name for God. He is the human form and name given to God, perhaps even with his own personality, I can't know that one, nor do I need to. To explain it better, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are not all deities but parts or forms of the same one God.

And why pray to angels or saints or anyone else at all? Because God says it's okay and we like to. I think it's cool we have a saint of lost things. I would love to talk to him or pray to him. God's not ignoring the people who died and were such good people and want to help people on Earth. I like that. So our religion has a lot of great different things we can do. I like that. Believe and pray if you want to, is the point.

You said "that makes sense to me" about your own religion. So then you can leave me to like my religion and say my religion makes sense to me, as it does.

You also said in your religion you "are given that power". There it is. God does not give us power. And with Moses or any other prophet, it's more that God would decide to do something and they would go along with it. It's more that the prophet might raise a stick or do a gesture but God's power would not be given to them or go through them, God would just do something miraculous in front of them. If you still don't get it, oh well, that's why you have your religion.

And when I said "using" their power, from your words, I did not mean you ordered it, I know you still asked for it, like a prayer.

Now, if what you say about Wicca is true and that's what Wicca has been since Biblical times, alright then maybe the Bible was referring to different practices other than the very same one you do have. But I suspect Wicca has not always been that way, or there were other divisions or ways of doing Wicca...perhaps a false Wicca but whatever. The point was mainly that we believing in the one God shouldn't practice any other religion.

I was just stating what my religion says. According to my religion there is one God and no other gods, meaning no Wiccan gods or any other gods, they would be false. And in your religion you have specific gods and goddesses, too, according to your religion it believes that there are only those, specific gods.

As for other things you said, yea, we decorate with trees and give presents, kind of like the Pagans. That's okay, they mean different things to us, we do the things out of different meanings, I mean there's only so many colors in the world but we give them all different meanings, and we don't have to do those things either, they aren't in our Bible or what our religion is about, just something fun to do and some ways of celebrating. We just like the trees and presents. As for the cross, what the, the Romans crucified people, Jesus was crucified, that's where the cross comes from. If it happens to look like a symbol Pagans have oh well. There's only so many basic shapes in the world, too.

And of course Christianity is new! Jesus came later in life! And before that God said to people who were worshiping other gods in other religions "yo, it's time I came out and explained I'm God, I'm the only God, and this is a good way to live your life and show some love for me who made you and gave you everything".

As for all the rest you said about the one true religion, all I can say is eh, maybe, and that's what you believe. But there are specific things I believe and want to believe in. Exact things that fit what I believe exactly.

You turned what was a misunderstanding into a big list of things the Bible forbids. Okay, yea, I already explained that I use my heart and what I feel is right because I know that even though God's word is in the Bible and there are messages in it that speak to my heart, some of the Bible could have been changed and added to by humans at the time it was written and later.

Of course I will believe I should only worship and respect and believe in one God, that is the core of my belief, and of course then I will think the other gods or goddesses of any religion are not true. That's what believing is! I just believe that! Jeeze! And of course it makes sense to me to love and respect that one God, but not to stop falling in love with the same sex when God has made me so happy when I do that, and it feels like he wants me to be happy, and to fall in love with whomever makes me happy.

Super Aurora, you might as well say I'm blinded by my own beliefs. Everything you do is based on what you believe in. Even believing you should post on a forum saying what you say. I can understand a difference between magic and miracles, spirituality, divinity, and religion (and even religions that use magic). I know you do too, and you were just comparing them and using a very broad definition to say they are like the same for the sake of argument. I think that was the sake for you, too, Siren. I pay attention to differences, you were paying attention to how they are alike for this discussion. Otherwise there wouldn't be different words like miracles or divinity. But there are. Say whatever you want, I believe in the difference with those different words, and I understand, see, and know the difference. I think you do too, and you are trying to ignore the difference for argument, but ah well.

yamiiguy, I am Christian and believe in evolution as well. And what ajmrowland said!

[yamiiguy]

I realise that but I don't believe in God or creationism. I do not know how the universe was created and I'm content with never knowing, sure I like the theories but us humans aren't meant to know anything.

[Super Aurora]

Misunderstandings abound.

I used terms like "according to my religion" and "in my religion", trying to stress that that was just what one religion said and believed and what I also believe.

Siren, you somehow missed that and took a big opportunity to defend your religion. Well, at least you got to say some things you wanted to say. But I never said your religion was wrong, even though my religon says that, too, but I was explaining what my religion believes. It seems people ignore details more than I thought, even when I stress them.

I don't remember Mary getting stoned, you may have read that some place you think it is official information but it's not, or maybe it really is in the Bible, I just have not read that in there.

God became a human possibly to see how it feels and he probably could have done it another way but what we believe is he had to come down, be like us, and then die for us so we could go to Heaven, to go through all that pain and suffering, to be like us, feel like us, then save us. It's a pretty cool mysterious thing that I do not fully understand and shouldn't, it's God, it's power I will never fully understand. But it speaks to me and touches me and I believe it. You say "you can't be father to your own son", well that's what you say, we can't understad it all, this is an all powerful God that human logic cannot completely comprehend. And the people who wrote the Bible heard that Jesus was God. Jesus revealed it somehow or it was revealed somehow spiritually which also has to do with the divine inspiration the writers had to write the Bible in the first place. And Jesus is not a deity except that he is the one only deity, a different name for God. He is the human form and name given to God, perhaps even with his own personality, I can't know that one, nor do I need to. To explain it better, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are not all deities but parts or forms of the same one God.

And why pray to angels or saints or anyone else at all? Because God says it's okay and we like to. I think it's cool we have a saint of lost things. I would love to talk to him or pray to him. God's not ignoring the people who died and were such good people and want to help people on Earth. I like that. So our religion has a lot of great different things we can do. I like that. Believe and pray if you want to, is the point.

You said "that makes sense to me" about your own religion. So then you can leave me to like my religion and say my religion makes sense to me, as it does.

You also said in your religion you "are given that power". There it is. God does not give us power. And with Moses or any other prophet, it's more that God would decide to do something and they would go along with it. It's more that the prophet might raise a stick or do a gesture but God's power would not be given to them or go through them, God would just do something miraculous in front of them. If you still don't get it, oh well, that's why you have your religion.

And when I said "using" their power, from your words, I did not mean you ordered it, I know you still asked for it, like a prayer.

Now, if what you say about Wicca is true and that's what Wicca has been since Biblical times, alright then maybe the Bible was referring to different practices other than the very same one you do have. But I suspect Wicca has not always been that way, or there were other divisions or ways of doing Wicca...perhaps a false Wicca but whatever. The point was mainly that we believing in the one God shouldn't practice any other religion.

I was just stating what my religion says. According to my religion there is one God and no other gods, meaning no Wiccan gods or any other gods, they would be false. And in your religion you have specific gods and goddesses, too, according to your religion it believes that there are only those, specific gods.

As for other things you said, yea, we decorate with trees and give presents, kind of like the Pagans. That's okay, they mean different things to us, we do the things out of different meanings, I mean there's only so many colors in the world but we give them all different meanings, and we don't have to do those things either, they aren't in our Bible or what our religion is about, just something fun to do and some ways of celebrating. We just like the trees and presents. As for the cross, what the, the Romans crucified people, Jesus was crucified, that's where the cross comes from. If it happens to look like a symbol Pagans have oh well. There's only so many basic shapes in the world, too.

And of course Christianity is new! Jesus came later in life! And before that God said to people who were worshiping other gods in other religions "yo, it's time I came out and explained I'm God, I'm the only God, and this is a good way to live your life and show some love for me who made you and gave you everything".

As for all the rest you said about the one true religion, all I can say is eh, maybe, and that's what you believe. But there are specific things I believe and want to believe in. Exact things that fit what I believe exactly.

You turned what was a misunderstanding into a big list of things the Bible forbids. Okay, yea, I already explained that I use my heart and what I feel is right because I know that even though God's word is in the Bible and there are messages in it that speak to my heart, some of the Bible could have been changed and added to by humans at the time it was written and later.

Of course I will believe I should only worship and respect and believe in one God, that is the core of my belief, and of course then I will think the other gods or goddesses of any religion are not true. That's what believing is! I just believe that! Jeeze! And of course it makes sense to me to love and respect that one God, but not to stop falling in love with the same sex when God has made me so happy when I do that, and it feels like he wants me to be happy, and to fall in love with whomever makes me happy.

Super Aurora, you might as well say I'm blinded by my own beliefs. Everything you do is based on what you believe in. Even believing you should post on a forum saying what you say. I can understand a difference between magic and miracles, spirituality, divinity, and religion (and even religions that use magic). I know you do too, and you were just comparing them and using a very broad definition to say they are like the same for the sake of argument. I think that was the sake for you, too, Siren. I pay attention to differences, you were paying attention to how they are alike for this discussion. Otherwise there wouldn't be different words like miracles or divinity. But there are. Say whatever you want, I believe in the difference with those different words, and I understand, see, and know the difference. I think you do too, and you are trying to ignore the difference for argument, but ah well.

yamiiguy, I am Christian and believe in evolution as well. And what ajmrowland said!



tl;dr: blah blah blah

[Goliath]

Discussion taken from thread What movie did you last watch?
http://www.dvdizzy.com/forum/viewtopic. ... &start=800

The princess and the frog
I have to say that I am more than a little disappointed .
I am rather disgusted that Disney put voodoo in it especially when it is U rated, I feel that is not the kind of think that should be pumped into kids, or adults for that matter. It totally ruined the film for me and my entire family. Another Disney we will not be buying, we are glade we rented it before we wasted our money on it.
I though the animation was fantastic though! I enjoyed that part of it.

'Black pearl' said that she was disturbed by it, "especially" because of the rating, not soley because of the rating. She also added she thinks voodoo shouldn't be "pumped" into "adults, for that matter". I don't know how PotC connects with voodoo, but if it does, 'Black pearl' *is* being hypocritical.

That would not be my beef with her post. I simply think she is a drama queen.

Voodoo is seen as black magic by a lot of people, and the Pirates series HAS tons of black magic, including bringing the death back to life, dealing with Gods and the like.

But my biggest issue with Black Pearl's post is the statement that adults shouldn't be exposed to Voodoo. I understand kids since they can get scared or doesn't get it. BUT adults have the right to know about it, make an educated opinion and see how it is used in the story.

So yeah, it is being dramatic.

well it could be her religon...she's a Christian from what her siggy says and I too am a Christian however when I see movies like Pirates or sometimes they have black magic in them..I simply say they are just movies and a movie is just a story being told. It's okay to have fun watching movies.. The Big hype about Harry Potter being evil and god says no to potter I think is silly. It's just a movie. I won't change my beliefs in the lord Jesus christ. Now for people with kids I understand they are entitled to what they let their kids watch...althoguh I one time was watching Return of Jafar at a friends house and they said turn that off when a big red Genie ka Jafar popped outta the lamp saying they will not watch it because it has the devil in it...which I think is overreacting.... I mean I understand it's very thin line about this kinda stuff but I say the movies are fiction and overall the movies I mainly watch the Good Guy beats the bad guy and good triumphs....it's only a movie though I don't like watching thinks such as Aliens, Predator or Freddy VS Jason or any movies like that just because I don't care for them

I too am a Christian however when I see movies like Pirates or sometimes they have black magic in them..I simply say they are just movies and a movie is just a story being told. It's okay to have fun watching movies. . The Big hype about Harry Potter being evil and god says no to potter I think is silly. It's just a movie.

I am concerned about the comment you made about it being okay to have fun watching movies that have voodoo, witchcraft etc, considering we share the same faith.
The bible says in Deuteronomy 18:10 (niv). “Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, who practises divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the lord” God clearly finds these things detestable and not fun. It is the enemy who says these things are just a bit of harmless fun in an attempt to deceive people into not following Gods word.
I suggest you retract that statement from the board.
To backup with other verses, Isaiah 5:20 “woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter”.
2 Timothy 2:19, “Everyone who confesses the name of the Lord must turn away from wickedness”. I thought I should point this out to you in case you didn’t realise, I hope this is helpful to you.

adults have the right to know about it, make an educated opinion

However pumping it through a U rated film is one sided. I agree about an educated decision 100% and I know no better place to get info than the bible, and the bible also agrees with you that you have the right to make your choices whether right or wrong, this is where free choice comes in.

Oh... and you do know that whatever you see projected inside the magic box isn't going to come out of it into your living room, right?

wrong!

Once again the discussion has gone off topic, if anyone wants to discuss this matter further you are more than welcome to start a thread in off topic and I will do my best to answer any legitimate questions, bear in mind I am only human, Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, Romans 3:9 what then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin. So where do people get the idea we think we are better than them? if you want perfection look to God .

and the bible also agrees with you that you have the right to make your choices whether right or wrong, this is where free choice comes in.

Unless you choose not to believe in God. Then 'his' people will slaughter you, right? It says so in the Old Testament. Even Jesus preached that he came to bring the sword.

Once again the discussion has gone off topic, if anyone wants to discuss this matter further you are more than welcome to start a thread in off topic and I will do my best to answer any legitimate questions,

Why would we do that? You're only repeating Bible-verses. It's easy to parrot what you've read and what you were taught elsewhere. You might as well record it and play it again, and again, and again

Everybody has a right to believe what they want, but I find it insulting that you claim that the things 'disneyboy' writes is something of "the enemy". Does that make 'disneyboy' also an "enemy"? Who is this enemy anyway? I also think it's rude that you "suggest" that 'disneyboy' deletes his comments. Just because you're a religious fanatic, doesn't mean we all have to be.

Thanks to both Lazario and Goliath for defending me. I know you guys don't believe in Jesus and all that was very kind of you to defend me of black pearl telling me to take down my post.....my point is in the movies It's not real. It's Fictioin (unless you count your inspired by a true story which sometimes it horror relates but mostly sports flims of history.

Also I'd like to add...people still read Romeo and Juliet or watch the movies. The Little Mermaid even the Disney one...what do you think Urusula did to make her human....call 1800 get legs for Ariel, or how about Aladdin...Jafar uses dark magic a bit....Any Shrek has some demonic like creatures (the pub and the witches and knock off versioins o Disney Villains) or how about The Nightmare Before Christmas...dont think that one needs an explanation. or Indianna JOnes or Star wars. Heck even Kung Fu Panda talks of dark elements. Marry Poppins has Magic....good magic, or what about Bedknob and Broomsticks? Or Witch Mountain or Any type of Comic Book movie? Idk if I have to avoid all of them to be a Christian in your eyes Black Pearl, but if you do, also remember in the bible a verse says don't judge others. Leave that to God.

[Goliath]

Thanks to both Lazario and Goliath for defending me. I know you guys don't believe in Jesus

I do believe there was a Jesus from Nazareth, who was born 5 years B.C. (we were five years off when calculating the birth of Jesus), who was a preacher in Judea. There's some historical evidence about this, if I'm not mistaken. There's supposed to be letters from Pontius Pilatus concerning Jesus, but this casts Jesus as merely one more preacher amongst many others. Historical fact is that the jews and Romans saw early christians as a cult, like they saw many new 'branches' of judaism as cults, and Jesus was one of many leaders of such 'branches'. That's all I know what's historical about Jesus. All else is a matter of faith.

You're welcome, by the way. I hate it when one person claims to speak for an entire communtiy of millions of people, in this case christians. I also find it arrogant to think one can speak for God. If God really exists, he's incomprehensible to us; our tiny brains (which we only use for 10%) can't understand 'God'. That's why I don't believe in the Bible. If there really is a God, he can't have all the petty, everyday human traits the Old Testament assigns to him. A god is too big for that.

How do we even know the Devil's "The Enemy". He could just be God's whipholder/prison matron. considering "sinning", no matter what it is or the size of it will have us banished to hell, there'd have to be some mutual agreement.

The way I see it, the concepts of 'the devil', 'hell' and 'sins' are made up by the church to keep people in line with whatever they preached. Also remember monarchs ruled by 'the grace of God' and therefore needed to oppress people with frightening ideas about 'sinning'. If you went against the monarch, you went against God, which is a sin... I think it's all meant to control people.

as for the Bible having all the info we need, then we'd be VERY confused if it did. It contradicts itself frequently and has been rewritten several times. who know's what's been left out?

More than I could mention in this post, and more than I can remember at the moment. The only thing I have in mind right now is a broad understanding of how people high in the church's hierarchy have decided on which gospels were 'canon' and which were not. I think of the Concilium of Nicea in 325. There are a *lot* of gospels (gospel according to Judas; gospel according to Maria; gospel according to Mary Magdalene) that were considered 'canon' in the beginnings of christianity, but were deemed 'not canonical' later by the church's leaders. Keep in mind that most people couldn't read or write in those days and the Bible was only read aloud in Latin in church, a language most people didn't understand. But all this could be googled.

as a smart christian, I dont even think the Virgin Mary was a virgin. that part of the story just reeks of cover-up.

Mary wasn't a virgin, since Jesus had an older brother. The New Testament says so.

[Jesus] probably did exist but he's not a ghost who magically manifests himself in the good things about Mankind. If there is a heaven and he's there, that's where he stays. He doesn't telepathically or spiritually communicate with people on Earth. That's a fairy tale, like Santa Claus, to reinforce the belief that you get rewards for doing good things while you're alive. We all know how we get rewarded- by doing things ourselves. Anything more than that on Earth while we're living is a luxury. Not spiritual payment for being morally clean and holy. Believing in Jesus's ability to make us do things is like giving someone else credit for what we do ourselves- same thing with blaming the Devil for the bad.

That's another inconsistency in christianity: whenever something goes well for certain people, they didn't do it themselves, no: God/Jesus made it happen. They have to thank God. You see it on award shows all the time: : "thanks to Jesus this horrible cheap crap got this meanless award". On the other hand, when something bad happens, it's not God's fault, but it's the devil. God handles the good, the devil handles the bad. I see it as a convenient escape for churchleaders who have to explain why there's so much suffering in the world when God's supposed to be a kind and loving being: "it's the devil!" It also provides people with an instant excuse: "the devil made do it!"

[Super Aurora]

If there really is a God, he can't have all the petty, everyday human traits the Old Testament assigns to him. A god is too big for that.

That's why I decide being a deist is best way go. It give a God in neutral and indifference stance. God aligning with one side is not how a God in reality would be like. Simple human concept like good and evil are pure human's inventions to create a moral stance for themselves of what's good and what's bad. God who supposely would be all powerful and all knowing would give a shit or belittle himself with such trivial problem smaller than microscope molecule(in his eyes).

That's another inconsistency in christianity: whenever something goes well for certain people, they didn't do it themselves, no: God/Jesus made it happen. They have to thank God. You see it on award shows all the time: : "thanks to Jesus this horrible cheap crap got this meanless award". On the other hand, when something bad happens, it's not God's fault, but it's the devil. God handles the good, the devil handles the bad. I see it as a convenient escape for churchleaders who have to explain why there's so much suffering in the world when God's supposed to be a kind and loving being: "it's the devil!" It also provides people with an instant excuse: "the devil made do it!"

It also add to inconsistency of God supposedly being "all good", in addition to his all powerful and all knowing status.