Disney Princess Criticism - What's Your Opinion?

[blackcauldron85]

Thanks for sharing- I did post back in the Snow White thread!

If Cinderella isn't your favorite Disney princess, let's talk
(Like with the Snow White one, I'm typing as I'm watching!) Disney Duster, how do you feel about Liana in the video saying that without Cinderella III, Cinderella would not be her favorite princess? Even with the original story, people think that Cinderella is a gold digger and that she's weak? I mean, that's sad that people think that Snow/Cindy/Aurora are just waiting for a man to come along. Like, man or no man, Snow and Cindy are enslaved to their families, not cared about. The mental abuse they go through, in addition to the physical abuse that we see Cinderella go through-- these women need a change in a life, they need an improvement, they need to get away from their abusers. So sure, it may come in the form of a man, and that's just what these stories tell of. But what if a circus came to town, and Snow and Cindy had the opportunity to run away. Maybe it wouldn't be a perfect life, as the life of a princess is perceived to be, but it'd still probably be an improvement to their lives, right?

OMG, she addressed the "Transatlantic accent," as she called it. I've always wondered why people in older movies have a not-quite-American, not-quite-British accent! That's not something we had learned in my film classes.

So, when she is talking about Cinderella losing her parents and suffering...I mean, same for Snow White. They both have evil stepmothers, so while she acknowledged Snow having a hard time, I do see the parallel between Snow and Cindy's family life. Disney Duster, I'm curious as to how you see Cinderella's family life/life at home vs. Snow White's. {As I said, I'm typing as I'm watching.} Okay, so she did mention that Snow may not have known that she was as hated as she was by the Queen. So sure, doing manual labor is not the same as also being physically abused, and at least in the film, we didn't see the Queen physically abuse Snow White, like we see Drizella & Anastacia abusing Cindy. But both had a hard life for sure. I do agree that it's amazing when you think about it that Cinderella was able to remain kind while knowing the living hell that she was in. I love that she defended the fact that Cinderella realistically couldn't have just left the home (and I think you recently mentioned this, DD, but it's not something that I usually think about. But that's her dad's house and if she were to leave, she'd be leaving that behind, when really that should be her house.

Hmm, that is interesting that she could have told Prince Charming (she didn't know who he was obviously) that she was in need of assistance to get out of her situation, but she didn't. Yes, she did only want one night out and she was beyond content with getting that wish, but if she had mentioned it, if she knew that that was an option (if it was an option), then would she have thought to tell him?! *mind blown*

Okay, when earlier Liana said 'But it's Cindy's dad's house and it's the last thing she has of her dad,' and then she says she left her stepfamily in the chateau. I mean, surely Cindy can come visit her father's house whenever she wants, right? Like, to use the argument of not wanting to leave her father's house, but then also Cindy so easily moves into the palace. I mean, her situation is what she needed to leave behind, whether her stepfamily moved out or Cindy moved out...I don't know how else to word this, so I hope it makes sense.

Yay, Cindy's sassiness & humor! And yes, she is such a great friend. And yes, that was a HUGE gesture for Cindy blocking Lady Tremaine from Anastacia in CIII- it speaks SO MUCH about Cinderella's character.

IN DEFENSE OF CINDERELLA - Why I Love Cinderella (A Video Essay)
Yes, I like that she says that emotional strength is just as valid as physical strength. Yes, like the previous video, this is her father's house, but YES, who else would take care of the animals if Cindy were to leave?! This video has been making me cry- I relate to a lot of what she's speaking about, and [not to get too off topic] I know that in real life, women's shelters don't usually (or ever) allow animals, so that's a huge barrier to abused people needing to stay in their situation [not to derail the subject, but there is a nonprofit that is working to solving that issue: https://www.purina.com/about-purina/pur ... sh-project]. So even if Cindy did have a place to go, she probably would have had to leave behind all of her animal friends. [Um, did she bring all the chickens and horses to the palace?] "Accepting help is okay." This is a huge lesson that probably doesn't get enough attention.

[DisneyFan09]

That's why I despise Elle Fanning's Aurora who supposed to be a modern heroine. She literally races to the castle (ON HER OWN!!!) even though she's well aware that she's cursed.

To be honest, while this statement may be irrelevant, I thought Elle Fanning was a total miscast as Aurora in every single way! Not only did she look to young for the part, but she lacked the beauty and the charisma to make Aurora interesting. So she was a complete miscast!

[Redadoodles]

I completely agree but to be fair, she didn’t have much to work with either. At least Mary Costa could showcase her breathtaking voice and Marc Davis could showcase his brilliant animation in the original. I think they had originally more scenes for Elle but they got deleted/rewritten because on the back of my Aurora doll, it is mentioned that she was also supposed to be known as briar rose like in the original but in the final product she’s only known as Aurora.

[Disney Duster]

I only count the original films made.by the original creators of a character. I do understand that she says Cinderella III showed a natural progression of Cinderella to be strong and take action and protect her stepsister, and that it was not out of line with what the original.Cinderella would do, but I simply don't count it. I wish she liked Cinderella as much only from the original film. Oh, well.

I believe people would say the original fairy tale's Cinderella was a gold digger and weak, yes. And of course they would be wrong.

I could see Snow and Cindy running away to the circus, sure. They wouldn't love it, but it would be better than how they were treated before.

I love Cinderella's voice, whatever that accent is.

I don't know if Snow White's stepmother physically abused her, but I could see the Queen having her servants hurt Snow if she didn't do work, and cast her out if she didn't do work as well..Honestly Snow and Cindy were in the same situations until the Queen made Snow's worse by wanting to kill her! It is great both Snow and Cindy remained kind despite their misfortunes. Neither of them could have a better life on their own. Actually, Snow is a little better than Cinderella regarding escape because she found a home she had a better life in with the Dwarfs. I still think Cinderella is better overall but that's my opinion! Snow also would want to stay in her own castle as the princess she was, another reason she didn't leave until later. I actually feel Walt Disney stole Cinderella's situation to put in Snow White.

Cinderella could have indeed told the man she danced and talked with about her real life, but she was probably embarrassed. The proclamation that any girl who fit the slipper would marry the Prince is what she needed to know she could use a man to get out of her situation.

Cinderella definitely could have still visited her house, and even if she couldn't, wanting to live where you grew up is never a good reason to stay in a bad situation. But I could understand Cinderella having an emotional al.attachment to her home.

I hugely agree with the rest of what you said.

[Vlad]

Hey, I think Vlad and Amy will be very interested in this post I made about a favorite film and character of yours, Snow White!

I quite agree with everything you said in your post, Duster. I also think Snow White is Walt's definitive masterpiece. Maybe it's because when he made the movie, he was 100% dedicated in its production. When it came time to do Pinocchio, Fantasia, Dumbo etc, he was already thinking of other projects as well, and maybe he wasn't as dedicated. He even started production for Pinocchio and Fantasia during the time when Snow White, and still his main attention was on Snow White, if I understood correctly.

If I compare Snow White to Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty, the best thing about her is that she has the most screen time, and me as the viewer, have the chance to spend time with her and care for her, and basically fall in love with her. I live the story through her, and at the end, I'm happy for her, when her dream comes true.

[blackcauldron85]

I wish she liked Cinderella as much only from the original film.

Thanks for your thoughts on that. She did defend 1950's Cinderella, too, and she does love her, so I was happy about that, at least.

I believe people would say the original fairy tale's Cinderella was a gold digger and weak, yes. And of course they would be wrong.

You tell 'em!!

I could see Snow and Cindy running away to the circus, sure. They wouldn't love it, but it would be better than how they were treated before.

That was just one, out-there example that came to my head. I don't know much about life back in those days...

Actually, Snow is a little better than Cinderella regarding escape because she found a home she had a better life in with the Dwarfs.

Very, very true.

I still think Cindeeella is better overall but that's my opinion!

Of course! I wouldn't try to change your favorite movie!

Snow also would want to stay in her own castle as the princess she was, another reason she didn't leave until later.

Very interesting point- I wasn't even taking into consideration that Snow is a born-princess. I mean, as you said, staying with the Dwarfs was better than her life in the castle, so I wonder if she could have been happy staying with the Dwarfs for an extended period of time, but she did dream of a Prince.

I actually feel Walt Disney stole Cinderella's situation to put in Snow White.

You are making me want to pull out my fairy tale books and look up both original stories to see how similar they were!

Cinderella could have indeed told the man she danced and talked with about her real life, but she was probably embarrassed. The proclamation that any girl who fit the slipper would marry the Prince is what she needed to know she could use a man to get out of her situation.

Very good point...she just met him, she wanted a lovely night, she didn't want to be reminded of her home life or kill the vibe for her dancing partner...

And regarding bringing her chickens, horses, etc. to the castle-do you have any idea?

[DisneyFan09]

I completely agree but to be fair, she didn’t have much to work with either. At least Mary Costa could showcase her breathtaking voice and Marc Davis could showcase his brilliant animation in the original. I think they had originally more scenes for Elle but they got deleted/rewritten because on the back of my Aurora doll, it is mentioned that she was also supposed to be known as briar rose like in the original but in the final product she’s only known as Aurora.

True that.

[Redadoodles]

Actually, Snow is a little better than Cinderella regarding escape because she found a home she had a better life in with the Dwarfs.

Well, Snow White escaped because her life was threatened. I'm sure that if Cinderella's stepmother had tried to have her killed, Cinderella would have done just the same.

[Disney Duster]

I so agree, Vlad. I so agree.

Amy, yes I was happy she at least still liked Cinderella from the original somewhat. Haha, I don't know when a circus would come to Cinderella or Snow White, either. Snow White undoubtedly wanted to live in a castle with a Prince, but she would have been fine living with the Dwarfs if it was either that or be killed. Actually in the original, original story of Snow White, her own birth mother was jealous of her and wanted her dead. It seems the Grimm's took the stepmother idea from Cinderella and put it in Snow White later. Cinderella undoubtedly left her chickens and perhaps some other animals at the chateau, but we see at the end of Cinderella (1950) that Bruno, Major, and the mice all come to the castle with Cinderella. They are all at the wedding.

Redadoodles, what you said is very true.

[blackcauldron85]

Well, Snow White escaped because her life was threatened. I'm sure that if Cinderella's stepmother had tried to have her killed, Cinderella would have done just the same.

Super-good point.

Actually in the original, original story of Snow White, her own birth mother was jealous of her and wanted her dead. It seems the Grimm's took the stepmother idea from Cinderella and put it in Snow White later.

Oooooooooooh. Wow, that makes sense... Grimms, bringing the evil stepmother trope since 1812.

Cinderella undoubtedly left her chickens and perhaps some other animals at the chateau, but we see at the end of Cinderella (1950) that Bruno, Major, and the mice all come to the castle with Cinderella. They are all at the wedding.

Yeah, I know that she brought her "favorite"animals (I mean, the birds easily can visit her at the castle!)...I guess since the chickens give eggs and the horses can transport them, that Anastacia & Drizella should be able to feed them, I suppose!

[Redadoodles]

It is a well known fact that Walt Disney has borrowed from both the Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty fairy tales when he produced his version of Snow White. At the time he didn't know he would end up producing those two stories as well and as a result, he used the magical kiss from Sleeping Beauty (in the original fairy tale, Snow White wakes up because her coffin was moved) and the Cinderella maid storyline.

[Disney's Divinity]

Well, Snow White escaped because her life was threatened.

She had to be pushed to do that by a man first though.

It is a well known fact that Walt Disney has borrowed from both the Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty fairy tales when he produced his version of Snow White. At the time he didn't know he would end up producing those two stories as well and as a result, he used the magical kiss from Sleeping Beauty (in the original fairy tale, Snow White wakes up because her coffin was moved) and the Cinderella maid storyline.

That explains why those three characters sort of get typified as all being the same. I think Cinderella is superior to Snow White and Aurora as far as being a fully-fledged character, but also when it comes to being more powerful. Sometimes I want to give Snow White a pass for being so infantile and dependent on all the male characters because she's technically a little girl, but if you give the movie a pass that way, then it makes the ending even more problematic that she's riding off to get married with an adult man at the end. Yeah, yeah, those were the times, but that's not something children should be watching these days.

Leaving aside feminist criticism, I always found Snow White to be sort of like a neutered Betty Boop.

[Redadoodles]

Well, in the fairy tale, Snow White is not fourteen, she's actually seven years old. For that reason, a lot of what happens in the story makes sense for her child like behaviour.
Now, even though the Disney character is fourteen (fifteen when she wakes up), it is still very young and a lot of her innocence comes from the fact that she is lonely and sheltered.
She has no role model to look up to aside from her vain stepmother who infantilizes her in order to keep her from growing up. I've always interpreted that the day that the magic mirror changed his answer and chose Snow White as being the most beautiful woman in land was the day Snow White had her first period. In that way, it made her a woman in the biological sense and thus a real rival to her stepmother.

I don't think Snow White is a good role model for girls in the sense that she makes a lot of mistakes but those same mistakes can blamed on her innocence and lack of experience in the real world. She has no access to books nor education. However, she's a good character in the sense that she's compelling and has great qualities. That fact that she cleans the cottage in order to get accepted is a way to showcase that she uses whatever (limited) skills she has to survive and get by.

As for the fact that she reminds you of Betty Boop, the latter was used as an inspiration for the creation and character design of Snow White.

[Jules]

As for the fact that she reminds you of Betty Boop, the latter was used as an inspiration for the creation and character design of Snow White.

Yes! And, Grim Natwick animated on both Betty Boop and Snow White, for Fleischer and Disney respectively.

[Disney Duster]

Yes, exactly, Amy.

You're right, about Walt borrowing and probably even about Snow White's period, Redadoodles.

Snow White could definitely be watch by children despite the an 18 year old marrying a 15 year old. They should be older children though, like teenagers, to understand why it's wrong, though.

[Disney Duster]

I found this great video about the Disney Princesses! It's long, though. It's an interview of a woman who wrote a book called Saving Cinderella about how Feminists can get Disney Princesses wrong. Now, the most talk is of Cinderella and Ariel. There is a lot of talk about both of them. There is only slight talk about the rest of the princesses. But I'd say it's worth a look if you care about Cinderella and Ariel!:
Faith Moore: What Feminists Get Wrong About Disney Princesses

[Vlad]

I LOVE that video! I will surely buy her book, as I'm super curious to read her detailed analysis on each Princess.

It's interesting that people prefer Cinderella instead of Merida, Moana or even Raya. I think these Princesses are great role models, and they're amazing characters, but I don't think that 50 years from now, they will still be remembered as Snow White or Cinderella. They made money when they came out in theaters and on home media, but they lack that timeless quality that the early classics have, and they certainly won't be as iconic as the two I mentioned.

[Disney Duster]

So glad you enjoyed the video, Vlad! And I agree! The classic princesses are timeless and forever. I must say I was shocked to hear Cinderella is the most popular princess and not Ariel. I was so happy to hear that. Long live the Queen, Cinderella! She and Snow White will live on forever.

[Vlad]

I was kinda expecting her to be the most popular. Her rags to riches story is one with universal appeal, and every one of us wishes for something like that in our lives, which is why she is so relatable as a character. I especially liked what Mrs. Moore said in the video about Cinderella at the ball and why the Prince fell in love with her. She put it beautifully.

[Disney Duster]

Yes, I completely agree! The Prince was like seeing what was so good about her, but through visual magic.