Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Walter
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by Walter »

Lady Cluck wrote:DreamWorks will have a comeback I'm sure :roll: That doesn't change the fact that I don't enjoy most of their output, and feel they contributed to the temporary downfall of animation in many ways. I enjoy seeing their films suffer, especially when they're consistently mediocre or flat out AWFUL and they crank out THREE per year. Frankly they got cocky, and they deserve this slump after attempting to oversaturate the market with poorly planned junk. I'm sorry, but it'd be a bad thing if some of the brainless garbage they put out caught on because it'd affect the trends of the industry as a whole.

Now I like the Kung Fu Panda series, so I'll be happy to see the next installment do well, and How to Train Your Dragon films aren't my cup of tea but at least they're more mature than others. But HOME?! Give me a break. It looks awful and I hope it's another flop. I'm sure everyone is looking forward to The Croods 2, Madagascar 4, and Puss in Boots 2: Nine Lives & 40 Thieves as well :lol:

With the state of the world economy and income distribution, there are people far more deserving of your pity than DreamWorks executives and animators. Not only are publicly traded corporations fair game for criticism across the board (and DreamWorks is still comfortably in the upper echelon of film studios), there are MANY other animation studios that are rising in success to give other employment options, for people who would already be very well connected and well paid considering they were working for one of the top animation studios, something most aspiring artists can only dream of. It's not like DreamWorks dying will cause the demand for animated films/tv shows to die out either. I'm glad audiences are seeing the light and giving success to other studios and films.
I am definitely with you on "Home". Hearing Rihanna's voice is enough reason for hoping that the film gets the wrecking ball after a couple weeks in theaters. :lol: Yes, even worse than Zachary Levi and Will Smith put together.

At one point, I would have wanted Dreamworks to go out of business as well, because of the crap that they put out in the past. Their crap was the equivalent of crappy reality shows like the various Kardashian shows. Horrible, but still making a lot of money! But stuff like "How to Train Your Dragon" and "Kung Fu Panda" changed that for me, as well as remembering "The Prince of Egypt".
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by Avaitor »

Honestly, Home looks like a considerably more obnoxious Lilo & Stitch. And the fact that tumblr SJWs are jumping to support the film just because it has a black protagonist, while they continue to stay silent on Princess and the Frog says a lot.

But also, I just really hate Jim Parsons, whether or not he's doing his aspergers black face.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by unprincess »

But also, I just really hate Jim Parsons, whether or not he's doing his aspergers black face.
heh...good one! Im glad Im not the only one who hates how Hollywood portrays autistics/Aspergians as cutesy "others".
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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unprincess wrote:
But also, I just really hate Jim Parsons, whether or not he's doing his aspergers black face.
heh...good one! Im glad Im not the only one who hates how Hollywood portrays autistics/Aspergians as cutesy "others".
This because I have Asperger's myself.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Veteran Disney animator Randy Haycock talks about the future of 2D animation in the industry.
Q: I was curious on what you think awaits 2D animation given the current status of the industry.

Randy Haycock: I think 2D will always exist in some form, even if the big studios aren't producing it right now, there are many interesting things happening with 2D. Watch Glen Keene’s “Duet”, for example. I believe we will see a hand drawn feature again some day, but it may not look like what’s been done in the past. I believe the future of hand drawn animation will be exploring the art of the craft.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/109 ... ll-you-how


He shares his thoughts on the never-ending debate of 2D vs. CG.
Q: What is your opinion on the animation industry transitioning from traditional animation to CG? I've observed many avid fans that prefer traditional criticize studios for using CG, as it seems less personalized. Thoughts?

Randy Haycock: Though, naturally I lament the dearth of hand drawn films being made today, I do love a lot of the CG films. I’m less concerned about the medium (when it comes to liking something) than about the story and characters. If those are good, I’m sold. "The Incredibles” is one of my favorite animated films. But I also love “The Iron Giant”. Brad Bird showed that the medium isn't as important as the execution of the material. They are two very different movies, but I enjoyed them both for their humor and heart.

With that in mind, I love hand drawn animation. It has a personal quality that can’t be duplicated. It’s a quality that comes across in the personal styles and approaches of drawing and timing and acting of the individual animators. I love being able to identify an artist’s work by these things. It’s an artistic quality that lets me in the mind of the artist, tells me how he/she feels about what they are drawing. That kind of individual approach is possible, but has been discouraged in CG animation. The goal is to make all the animation look as if it were done by one person. A valid goal. I think, however, by casting an animator on a specific character, letting him/her live in that character, the character itself becomes more an individual, defined not only by the story, but by the views and feelings of the animator. It’s something that other animators (CG and hand drawn) and I have talked about and some agree. So, we’ll see how it plays out in future films.

I think Disney right now has the finest CG animators in the business working on their films. They are every one capable of achieving the kind of artistry I've been describing. They have already set the bar very high in the quality of their work and I believe they can achieve that personal quality I’m talking about if they are given the opportunity and the material.

One last word on hand drawn animation. I love to draw. I love expressing myself though drawing. I get into a “groove” when I’m animating pencil on paper. It’s a state where I can’t get my ideas on the paper fast enough. Hours flow by unheeded, and before I know it the day is gone. It’s a euphoric feeling that I cherish. So I will always find a way to animate with drawings because it makes me happy to do it. It’s one of the best things about being an artist, and I don’t take it for granted.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/110 ... ion-on-the


He talks about perceptions of 2D animation in America vs Europe and Japan.
Q: Why do you think 2D animation still has an audience in Japan and Europe (particularly the French/Belgian productions)? Do you believe it is because they tend to have more of a variety in both story and style or is it just a cultural difference? I feel like American studios tend to go either family-friendly or adult comedy full of snappy dialogue. Is there no middle-ground here, or has it just stayed underground and away from mainstream media? Have your experiences proved otherwise?

Randy Haycock: Although it’s true that Americans have a limited view of what animation should be, I don’t think that’s a factor in the lack of 2D. The European production and funding processes are different than in the US (more like an independent film, with multiple investors and little to no in house work, or per project contracts, whereas in the US it’s much more expensive to produce an animated film and therefore the profit margins have to be higher). I do believe that in Japan the popularity of Manga and its influence on Anime helps keep 2D culturally relevant.

I personally would like to see animation approach other forms of storytelling that would speak to different audiences. (I think “The Incredibles” was a step in that direction.) But it will take some time (and maybe a new generation) to get there with American audiences. I would like to see hand drawn animation progress and evolve. I don’t necessarily think it should always look like it has for the past 100 years. I like to think that if we did a 2D film that didn't look like it was painted on cells, but had an illustrative, or painterly quality that was completely new, we might begin to show the potential of the medium. Maybe then we could win back an audience for hand drawn.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/110 ... ill-has-an


He also talks about whether 2D animation will ever make a comeback.
Q: Just wondering, do you think there will be a return of 2D animation anytime soon? I appreciate the art of many CG movies, but there is something so special about 2D that I really don't want to be lost, and I think it could still do well at the box office. Maybe it wasn't the style of animation that made Princess and the Frog not do so well-- I mean, look at your art! It's crazy beautiful! Maybe the subject matter was just too tough for children?

Randy Haycock: I hope there will be a return of hand drawn animation. I agree that it has a unique quality that can’t be reproduced any other way. There are still folks out there who have some influence that are trying to keep it alive. If we see more hand drawn animation in the near future it will be in short films and maybe an independently produced feature. I don’t think the big studios have any plans for hand drawn at this time. But if a small, independent film comes out and does well, they could be persuaded. For them, it’s all about box office. I think there were a number of factors in why Princess and the Frog didn't perform as well as the CG films (It was still profitable, by the way, just not AS profitable). Perhaps the marketing wasn't right. Perhaps it was released against other family franchises that already had a guaranteed audience. I guess if we could figure that out we could guarantee all movies would be hits.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/110 ... -you-think


He explains why Disney abandoned hand-drawn animation.
Q: I know you've talked about CG vs 2D drawn animation before. What I'd like to ask is why? Why is Disney only making CG films? I've seen all these Frozen pencil tests, ones from Wreck-It Ralph, Tangled and so on and they look great, so I've got to know why they throw out all that craftsmanship away for bland, dull looking CG characters? They can still churn out 2D animated films yearly they did it in the 90's and it'd be easier now with the help of computers.

Randy Haycock: There is a simple answer to that. Animation is a business, and CG films make more money. If Princess and the Frog had made $500 million at the box office you bet we’d be making more of them. Unfortunately, the audience today for hand drawn films is not big enough for a major studio to want to keep making them. I think if a hand drawn film wanted to compete today it would have to find a new look and approach that is different from what’s been done in the past. Audiences love to see new things (as long as the story is engaging). So, I believe if a film maker can find the backing to do a hand drawn film that looked completely fresh and original (and appealing), they might find some success. Now let me say that I do not find CG to be bland or dull. Sometimes the stories are bland and dull, but I think both CG and Hand Drawn animation are unique, individual mediums and they both have value and appeal. I addressed these qualities in an earlier post. I hope there will someday again be room in the market for both.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/110 ... s-2d-drawn


He advises aspiring animators to learn CG if they want to get a job in the industry.
Q: Hi, I love your art and appreciate the pencil tests posted. I would like to A) Be an animator but I don't want to B) Work in 3D and C) Be homeless. Do I have to pick 2? Could I realistically land a job with just a kick-ass demo reel of traditional stuff?

Randy Haycock: I’m afraid that the reality of the industry (in the US at least) is that if you want to be an animator but don’t want to be homeless, is that you will need to learn to animate in CG. That is where the work is. None of the big studios are working in hand-drawn at this point. That’s not to say it may not have a rebirth at some point, but today it’s all CG. As far as the demo real, I know that Pixar would hire an animator based on a really strong hand-drawn demo reel. They figure the real talent lies in the ability to animate. They can teach you how to use the tools to do it in CG. That said, it’s always best to have some CG stuff on your reel as well.
Source: http://randyhaycock.tumblr.com/post/113 ... ncil-tests
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by unprincess »

oh Im glad this thread is back! I had wondered where it had gone!

I really wish Brad Bird would make another 2d film!
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by Disney's Divinity »

I agree with Haycock, the medium doesn't necessarily mean you love or hate a film. I enjoy The Incredibles, Frozen, How to Train Your Dragon, and Kung Fu Panda even though they are all 3D. I play many videogames and I grew up loving--still love--a 3D TV show, Reboot. Still, I think hand-drawn can take strong characters to another level. I actually would rather stop-motion over 3D, even though they should be very similar? (And in some cases, most "stop-motion" films are made with computers...?)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by estefan »

By the way, contrary to what Paramount is pushing in the advertising, the vast majority of the new SpongeBob Movie is underwater and hand-drawn. The scenes of them on land and CG are only in the last twenty or so minutes. It's poised to be a big success this weekend, though whether the studios credit that to the brand name or the marketing emphasising the final act remains to be seen.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Disney head of story Paul Briggs talks about 2D animation. I'm beginning to think that people at Disney actually believe the PR nonsense that the studio's feeding them. :roll:
Paul Briggs: I think there’s a place for 2D. It’s all up to the filmmaker. That’s always the thing. They are the person driving what they want. I love hand-drawn animation; I think there’s a place for it. I want somebody to create a story that there’s a need for it, a need for hand-drawn animation. I still look back at Persepolis, even what those guys are doing now like Tomm Moore with Song of the Sea, it’s like “Wow!” There is some amazing stuff out there. It can be done. Does everybody think Disney has to do it? No, Disney’s not the only place that has to do it; any studio can do it. It’s challenging because you have to figure out what’s the right story for it. What best fits for a filmmaker to go “This has to be done in hand-drawn animation.” […] There’s a place for it; just the story has to be right.
Source: http://taughtbyapro.com/podcast-11-bill ... interview/
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by Mooky »

Interesting... So I guess what he's trying to say is there's a place for it. 8)
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by unprincess »

there's a place for it...
but not here, let some other studio worry about it! :lol:

thats basically what I got from it:
No, Disney’s not the only place that has to do it; any studio can do it.
basically it's no longer their "problem"...


:|
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by disneyprincess11 »

I just watched Brother Bear (really good!) and I couldn't help thinking about Moana and how amazing she, Maui, & the movie would look in 2D. Moana would be beautiful, hand-drawn! This is the style Disney should do. Dang it, Lasseter! :facepalm:
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by unprincess »

yes I think Brother Bear is so underrated. It gets a lot of flack for being a Pocahontas meets Lion King rip-off but I think its my favorite of the 2000's era 2d flims. Its the most "Renaissance Disney" era-like of all of them...

Briggs comment also makes me wonder why Disney doesnt just themselves distribute some of these 2d animated films other studios are making. In a way theyd still be championing 2d animation while not actually having to be involved on making them. And itd allow for exposure to these films that otherwise people in the US wouldnt be aware of. Kinda like what they did with the Ghibli films. I really think they should have had a hand in getting Tom Moore's films and The Prophet released here in the US.

Speaking of The Prophet, I read that movie will finally get distribution here from GKids. So there's some good 2d news.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by Sotiris »

In yet another profile piece where Lasseter is portrayed as the savior of Disney Animation, he is actually bragging about bringing 2D animation back at the studio. Yes, Lasseter wants credit for that in a time when Disney has completely abandoned the medium and laid off their 2D animators. Can you believe this? :what:
When he took charge of Disney, one of his first actions was to reverse a decision that had been quietly made two years earlier, not often readily acknowledged by the studio even now, to shut down its entire hand–drawn animation division.

"The previous regime had decided that their audience didn't want to look at hand–drawn art anymore, they wanted computer animation," he says. "They didn't care about the artists, the history, the art form."

But Lasseter did. As a child, he'd pored over an enormous hardback Disney book, The Art of Animation, and dreamt of following in the footsteps of the "Nine Old Men": the animators who had worked with Walt Disney during the studio's early days. So in the most glorious raised middle–finger to the old guard imaginable, he rehired John Musker and Ron Clements, the co–directors of The Little Mermaid and Aladdin, and asked them to pitch a brand–new, hand–drawn Disney princess story.

"They thought the world had grown too cynical for traditional fairy tales, but I was sitting at Pixar thinking, 'No! Hollywood's grown too cynical for them! The rest of the world loves them!'"

Working with Musker and Clements allowed him to revive the old Disney recipe, albeit with a Lasseterian twist. "The technique was what Disney had been using for years, but the story had to have a little something extra," he says.
Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/film/big-her ... interview/
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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"Doesn't care about the artists, history or art form."

Pfft. What a hypocrite.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Sotiris wrote:Working with Musker and Clements allowed him to revive the old Disney recipe, albeit with a Lasseterian twist. "The technique was what Disney had been using for years, but the story had to have a little something extra," he says.
Let me guess, the Pixar racing-back-and-forth from point A to point B formula? Because otherwise, movies like TP&TF, Tangled and Frozen are not that different than the '90s. The one new thing he tried--Randy Newman--was an epic fail. Although I guess we could give him credit for the fact that the villains are so bland now? That seems to be another thing brought over from Pixar.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Disney's Divinity wrote:
Sotiris wrote:Working with Musker and Clements allowed him to revive the old Disney recipe, albeit with a Lasseterian twist. "The technique was what Disney had been using for years, but the story had to have a little something extra," he says.
Let me guess, the Pixar racing-back-and-forth from point A to point B formula? Because otherwise, movies like TP&TF, Tangled and Frozen are not that different than the '90s. The one new thing he tried--Randy Newman--was an epic fail. Although I guess we could give him credit for the fact that the villains are so bland now? That seems to be another thing brought over from Pixar.
I don't think the villains are bland as you say.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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Disney's Divinity wrote:Although I guess we could give him credit for the fact that the villains are so bland now? That seems to be another thing brought over from Pixar.
Agreed.

This could easily become a Pixar vs Disney comparison. But I genuinely think if there's one thing that Disney does better than Pixar, is their villains. Disney makes varied villians, both comical, sinister and all of the best villains have a certain charisma that makes them appealing. Pixar villains are bland, forgettable and boring.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

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DisneyFan09 wrote:
Disney's Divinity wrote:Although I guess we could give him credit for the fact that the villains are so bland now? That seems to be another thing brought over from Pixar.
Agreed.

This could easily become a Pixar vs Disney comparison. But I genuinely think if there's one thing that Disney does better than Pixar, is their villains. Disney makes varied villians, both comical, sinister and all of the best villains have a certain charisma that makes them appealing. Pixar villains are bland, forgettable and boring.
Not in my opinion.
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Re: Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

Post by DisneyFan09 »

jazzflower92 wrote:Not in my opinion.
Okay, then we can agree to disagree. Why do you find Pixar villains so appealing?
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