Hand-Drawn Animation Dead at Disney

[DisneyEra]

WDAS is just 3 for 6 with CGI films though. While they have hits Tangled/WIR/Frozen they also have Flops/Disappointments CL/MtR & Bolt. Also, CGI films have been struggling as of late. Look no more than DreamWorks Animation, that has lost over $150 million via write-offs on RotG/Turbo & Peabody. Peabody lost them $57 million earlier this year. This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March. Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic. Pixar has never had a film flop & lose money. Every film from Toy Story to MU has been a Box Office hit. What I don't like is when a CGI film flops, it's never because it was "CGI", it's one piss poor excuse after another. But when a 2D film flops, it's because it was in 2D, end of story. I wondered before what would WDAS have done if Tangled suffered the same Box Office fait that P&tF did a year earlier. That would of been 4 CGI flops in a row & maybe they would of went back to 2D once more. But Tangled was a monster hit, and the studio hasn't looked back since

[estefan]

Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic.

Just to clarify, Epic wasn't a flop. Due to their smaller-than-average budgets (mainly thanks to Connecticut tax credits), they can have a movie make about $260 million, as Epic did, and still turn a profit. While it can be considered a disappointment, it still made money and unlike with DreamWorks, there weren't reports of money losses and lay-offs. Blue Sky is able to get away with a movie making $260 million while those studios that spend more money on their animated films, such as DreamWorks and Pixar, can't.

I actually think that's why DreamWorks is going to start spending less money on their movies and will also follow the Sony and Illumination models by outsourcing more of their animation production to China (as Kung Fu Panda 3 has already done).

[DisneyEra]

Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic.

Just to clarify, Epic wasn't a flop. Due to their smaller-than-average budgets (mainly thanks to Connecticut tax credits), they can have a movie make about $260 million, as Epic did, and still turn a profit. While it can be considered a disappointment, it still made money and unlike with DreamWorks, there weren't reports of money losses and lay-offs. Blue Sky is able to get away with a movie making $260 million while those studios that spend more money on their animated films, such as DreamWorks and Pixar, can't.

I actually think that's why DreamWorks is going to start spending less money on their movies and will also follow the Sony and Illumination models by outsourcing more of their animation production to China (as Kung Fu Panda 3 has already done).

True, it wasn't a flop but a disappointment. Still, Epic is in last place on Blue Sky's feature Box Office chart. It actually made $8 million more than Robots worldwide but Robots had a $75 million budget to Epic's $100 million. So while it may not be a financial flop it still was a major disappointment for the studio.

http://boxofficemojo.com/franchises/cha ... tudios.htm

[2Disney4Ever]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

[disneyboy20022]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

I respect your opinions 2Disney4Ever, but you have to realize there are those that do enjoy the status quot of films like Frozen, Wreck It Ralph and other CGI Films. Also just because we enjoy the CGI films doesn't mean we don't want 2D Animation to come back. Not everyone is going to agree with your point of views and you need to accept that instead of getting frustrated that people don't agree with you

[TsWade2]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

Will you get out of here already, before you make things worse?!

[Avaitor]

2Disney in 3...2...1...

Seriously though, I knew that Lassener wasn't enthusiastic about 2D coming back. Instead of story problems or release dates, they immediately blamed it on 2D and the marketing and the titles. It's as if they were like, "Do we HAVE to do 2D?" like whining 3 year olds w/ PATF. And when the 2 films failed, they're like "Oooops. Oh well. Quick! Change all fairy tales to Pixar names and make the marketing Dreamworks. QUICK!"

So, yeah: I honestly do blame Lassener for this, but oh well.

I don't mean to derail the topic, but it seems like you always get Lasseter's name wrong. Unless that's intentional? haha

[unprincess]

This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March.

I dont think them moving the release date has anything to do wth it being CGI, more with them being worried about it being a movie with a black female lead character...

2D, I really wish I could agree with you with your all of nothing view on Disney. I agree that they are not the compnay that they once were... there was a time I thought they were something special. now they are just a soulless corporate monster thats lost much of its identity. But Ive chosed to be discerning when it comes to them & their product(which is what theyve now amount to, a company that churns out product, rather then art like they used to). I do like some of their product these days. of course I fully support ALL their 2d films & own the majority of them on dvd/br disc. I like Frozen, not b/c its cgi, but b/c I like fairytales & snowy icey environments & Norweigan culture. I like the Tinkerbell films, Ive watched those on dvd. I liked Tangled. I dont like the majority of their cgi fims though. I have very little interest in their Marvel product or Star Wars. Ive chosen to ignore those or give them a Netflix rental when i have the time & thats it. I know that it just enables them to do more CGI product but I guess I dont have the willpower you do.

Im no longer putting my hope for 2d on Disney... forget about that. I doubt all their next several Cgi films flopping in a row, or a 2d hit from another studio is going to change their minds about 2d. Theyve made their decision and Ive made mine buy no longer considering myself a loyal Disney fan & picking & choosing only that which appeals to me & treating them like any other compnay. And you have the right to boycott them completely, but for many people, thats not an easy thing to do.

[disneyprincess11]

I ALWAYS mix his name up I don't hear the "t", just the n.

[Warm Regards]

I think Indie GoGo does allow any funds raised to be kept.

Indie GoGo offers both a flexible and a fixed funding campaign choice. With a flexible funding campaign you keep the funds you raised, but are charged a fee of 9% of the raised funds. With a fixed funding campaign you don't get to keep the funds and all of the contribution are refunded. This specific project is a fixed funding campaign so if they don't reach their goal they get zilch.

I realized "Hullabaloo" had a fixed funding choice shortly after posting that. But thank you for the clarification, I didn't know Indie GoGo had options for such things.

The Bancroft brothers talk about the status of 2D animation at Disney and the future of the medium in general.

There you have it. Conclusive proof that Disney is not interested in ever making another 2D movie.

Even if it's third-party information, it's as conclusive as one can get. Disney won't be heads or tails on the issue as much as hoping the coin will slowly roll away.

Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic.

Just to clarify, Epic wasn't a flop. Due to their smaller-than-average budgets (mainly thanks to Connecticut tax credits), they can have a movie make about $260 million, as Epic did, and still turn a profit. While it can be considered a disappointment, it still made money and unlike with DreamWorks, there weren't reports of money losses and lay-offs. Blue Sky is able to get away with a movie making $260 million while those studios that spend more money on their animated films, such as DreamWorks and Pixar, can't.

Note to self: never kid around with estefan when it comes to BlueSky's Epic.

But the point that DisneyEra made, that most studios don't judge a CG film for flopping or underperforming just because it's CG, is pretty agreeable.

[disneyprincess11]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Can you ever shut up about 2D vs. CGI? And no, we don't put any final thoughts to yours because it's nothing, but whiny nonsense and attacking everyone like what you just said. Disney will always be Disney no matter they are: 2D, CGI, stop motion etc. Tangled & Frozen is just like the Renaissance, but only in CGI. SAME. THING! You need to get over yourself and stop thinking highly of yourself and look down on others.

[estefan]

This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March.

I dont think them moving the release date has anything to do wth it being CGI, more with them being worried about it being a movie with a black female lead character...

I assumed it was because they wanted to put a movie with a recognisable brand in that slot that would do better competing against Big Hero 6 (since Frozen has made Disney Animation the go-to studio for many families again). And I know one of the storyboard artists currently working on Home, who says they're taking full advantage of the release delay to improve the story and script. So this delay should thankfully help both the quality and box-office prospects of Home.

Note to self: never kid around with estefan when it comes to BlueSky's Epic.

Oh, yes. I will defend that movie to the death.

I do think we need to make a point of differentiating between a flop and a disappointment. A flop is something that loses money (e.g. Treasure Planet, Legends of Oz, John Carter, The Lone Ranger). A disappointment has made money, but still performs below the studio's expectations. Epic, The Princess and the Frog, Bolt, Pacific Rim and Edge of Tomorrow would fall into this category. Although a number of box-office disappointments can end up making more money later through DVD sales. Pacific Rim seems to have done well enough in that area that a sequel was recently greenlit. Animated movies, in particular, do really well in home video so disappointments and even flops can ultimately make a good amount of money in the end. Rise of the Guardians sold a good amount of copies and the combination of disc sales and the Netflix sales have made Turbo more profitable than the theatrical run would indicate. Even Treasure Planet, Atlantis: The Lost Empire and the unsuccessful Don Bluth movies sold really well on home video (I believe All Dogs Go to Heaven was one of the best-selling VHSs, even though the film flopped on its theatrical release). A film's performance doesn't end at the box-office.

[jazzflower92]

Going off topic here to discuss the main lead in the next movie, Home. I remember that when they were looking for a voice actress for Tiana they tried not to pick a big name that would overshadow the character. Beyoncé Knowles, Jennifer Hudson and Alicia Keys, as well as actress and fashion model Tyra Banks all expressed an interest in voicing the character before it ultimately went to Anika Noni Rose who although starred in Dream Girls along with Hudson was not really a big namer like the rest. This is in contrast with the main character, Tip, who is voiced by Rihanna and one of the problems with DreamWorks is sometimes they pick the biggest named celebrities that often times overtake the characters. I don't mean celebrity voice actors are not good because look at the Robin Williams ( may he rest in peace) in Genie because that is a prime example of a voice actor that brings life into the character and people actually think of them separate from each other. DreamWorks can get this right I mean when it comes to their Kung Fu Panda and How to Train Your Dragon series they really know how to make the voice actors fit the role instead of using them to get their movies' publicity.

http://disney.wikia.com/wiki/Tiana

[Escapay]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

In a private message you sent to me a month ago, you stated:

• You may not have decided on whether or not I deserve to be banned, but that's okay, because you can just tell everyone here that I'm leaving this forum for good. I don't care what people here want to like or think is so good about Disney today. This whole forum is not even worth my time anymore.

I opted not to serve as your messenger, and even offered you permission to create a proper "Goodbye" thread given that both your "Sanctuary" threads were locked. Given that you've decided to waive this offer and continued posting regardless of your decision to leave, I feel that allows me to share not only the private message quoted above, but portions of my response as well.

• The moderating team does their best to ensure that every member feels welcome and free to post their opinions. But when members decide to circumvent forum moderation, disregard forum rules and guidelines, and ignore warnings, then perhaps it's best for some members to look elsewhere online to share their thoughts. I'm genuinely sorry that you've decided to leave this forum, but I will not act as your messenger. If you wish to start a "Goodbye" thread (or use a pre-existing one to do so), I will not stop you.
  
  [snip]
  
  If your main reason for leaving is the inability to find anyone who will talk to you civilly about your passion for hand-drawn animation, I would suggest you revisit past threads in which you've argued with others, and see whether or not it's behavior on your end that instigated any ill will. Perhaps looking at old words with a fresh set of eyes may help. Hindsight can help one view something differently. Of course, at the same time, I would also look at how others have responded to you over time, and whether or not they were always antagonistic. It may surprise you.
  
  But, if you decide to simply leave regardless of what I or anyone else says, I cannot stop you, so I wish you well in all your endeavours.

After I sent that private message (which has been confirmed via forum software to have been read), I assumed that you had followed your own word and left the forum for good. However, less than ten days after you sent that message, you fail to follow your own words by posting in the Robin Williams thread with this message:

• I'm not really supposed to be here anymore since I was quietly leaving this forum behind, but I saw the news and I just have to say something about it.

And you continued to post throughout the month, despite stating this a mere two days ago:

• I should be [leaving this site] officially, but I seem to be falling back into my old habits again.

Constantly declaring your departure seems to be a trend:

• Okay then, I'll step out. I keep telling myself I shouldn't be posting comments on here anymore, but instead I just keep sticking my nose into things wanting to say something about it.

But despite having told the forum several times already, these famous last words obviously wield no power at all:

• And with all that said, I think this should be considered to be my final post here, cause I don't feel that I really belong on here. People here have chosen to embrace what Disney has become, and I want nothing to do with that. I may consider myself a fan of Disney, but it's not in the way that most people here do, so I have no place being on a forum where people think that what they make now is good.

Because in less than twenty-four hours, you were back again

• Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?
  
  Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

Seeing as your own words hold no weight for yourself, one can assume they should hold no weight for other members. Therefore, though you declare your wishes to leave, I personally believe you will not, and that you will be back again in the near future simply because you cannot stay away from this forum. One wonders if you will not post again simply to prove me wrong.

For all other forum members, the moderators are aware of the reports sent. We are in deliberation. In the meantime, I highly advise the usage of the "Ignore" feature until a proper course of action has been taken and addressed.

Albert

[TsWade2]

Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?

Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

In a private message you sent to me a month ago, you stated:

• You may not have decided on whether or not I deserve to be banned, but that's okay, because you can just tell everyone here that I'm leaving this forum for good. I don't care what people here want to like or think is so good about Disney today. This whole forum is not even worth my time anymore.

I opted not to serve as your messenger, and even offered you permission to create a proper "Goodbye" thread given that both your "Sanctuary" threads were locked. Given that you've decided to waive this offer and continued posting regardless of your decision to leave, I feel that allows me to share not only the private message quoted above, but portions of my response as well.

• The moderating team does their best to ensure that every member feels welcome and free to post their opinions. But when members decide to circumvent forum moderation, disregard forum rules and guidelines, and ignore warnings, then perhaps it's best for some members to look elsewhere online to share their thoughts. I'm genuinely sorry that you've decided to leave this forum, but I will not act as your messenger. If you wish to start a "Goodbye" thread (or use a pre-existing one to do so), I will not stop you.
  
  [snip]
  
  If your main reason for leaving is the inability to find anyone who will talk to you civilly about your passion for hand-drawn animation, I would suggest you revisit past threads in which you've argued with others, and see whether or not it's behavior on your end that instigated any ill will. Perhaps looking at old words with a fresh set of eyes may help. Hindsight can help one view something differently. Of course, at the same time, I would also look at how others have responded to you over time, and whether or not they were always antagonistic. It may surprise you.
  
  But, if you decide to simply leave regardless of what I or anyone else says, I cannot stop you, so I wish you well in all your endeavours.

After I sent that private message (which has been confirmed via forum software to have been read), I assumed that you had followed your own word and left the forum for good. However, less than ten days after you sent that message, you fail to follow your own words by posting in the Robin Williams thread with this message:

• I'm not really supposed to be here anymore since I was quietly leaving this forum behind, but I saw the news and I just have to say something about it.

And you continued to post throughout the month, despite stating this a mere two days ago:

• I should be [leaving this site] officially, but I seem to be falling back into my old habits again.

Constantly declaring your departure seems to be a trend:

• Okay then, I'll step out. I keep telling myself I shouldn't be posting comments on here anymore, but instead I just keep sticking my nose into things wanting to say something about it.

But despite having told the forum several times already, these famous last words obviously wield no power at all:

• And with all that said, I think this should be considered to be my final post here, cause I don't feel that I really belong on here. People here have chosen to embrace what Disney has become, and I want nothing to do with that. I may consider myself a fan of Disney, but it's not in the way that most people here do, so I have no place being on a forum where people think that what they make now is good.

Because in less than twenty-four hours, you were back again

• Can you people ever shut up about CG movies to even so much as put any thought into my final words here?
  
  Whatever. Don't care about anything I say. It doesn't matter anyway, cause the second I finish writing this this is going to be the very last you'll ever hear of me here. I was only checking this to see if anybody was even going to consider anything that I had to say last night. Obviously not.

Seeing as your own words hold no weight for yourself, one can assume they should hold no weight for other members. Therefore, though you declare your wishes to leave, I personally believe you will not, and that you will be back again in the near future simply because you cannot stay away from this forum. One wonders if you will not post again simply to prove me wrong.

For all other forum members, the moderators are aware of the reports sent. We are in deliberation. In the meantime, I highly advise the usage of the "Ignore" feature until a proper course of action has been taken and addressed.

Albert

Thank you, Escapay, I was getting better for not obsessing about 2D hand drawn animation, until he or she came into this forum.

[DisneyJedi]

WDAS is just 3 for 6 with CGI films though. While they have hits Tangled/WIR/Frozen they also have Flops/Disappointments CL/MtR & Bolt. Also, CGI films have been struggling as of late. Look no more than DreamWorks Animation, that has lost over $150 million via write-offs on RotG/Turbo & Peabody. Peabody lost them $57 million earlier this year. This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March. Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic. Pixar has never had a film flop & lose money. Every film from Toy Story to MU has been a Box Office hit. What I don't like is when a CGI film flops, it's never because it was "CGI", it's one piss poor excuse after another. But when a 2D film flops, it's because it was in 2D, end of story. I wondered before what would WDAS have done if Tangled suffered the same Box Office fait that P&tF did a year earlier. That would of been 4 CGI flops in a row & maybe they would of went back to 2D once more. But Tangled was a monster hit, and the studio hasn't looked back since

Honestly, this sums up how hypocritical and biased animation studios are.

[MeerkatKombat]

WDAS is just 3 for 6 with CGI films though. While they have hits Tangled/WIR/Frozen they also have Flops/Disappointments CL/MtR & Bolt. Also, CGI films have been struggling as of late. Look no more than DreamWorks Animation, that has lost over $150 million via write-offs on RotG/Turbo & Peabody. Peabody lost them $57 million earlier this year. This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March. Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic. Pixar has never had a film flop & lose money. Every film from Toy Story to MU has been a Box Office hit. What I don't like is when a CGI film flops, it's never because it was "CGI", it's one piss poor excuse after another. But when a 2D film flops, it's because it was in 2D, end of story. I wondered before what would WDAS have done if Tangled suffered the same Box Office fait that P&tF did a year earlier. That would of been 4 CGI flops in a row & maybe they would of went back to 2D once more. But Tangled was a monster hit, and the studio hasn't looked back since

Honestly, this sums up how hypocritical and biased animation studios are.

Agree.
Slightly off topic but I don't have high hopes for Dreamworks Home. I watched the trailer and Rihanna sounds too old for a teenage girl. That was a bad casting choice. Also got a Lilo and Stitch vibe from it.
I guess Dreamworks gets by on Shrek/Madagasgar and HTTYD money.

[TsWade2]

WDAS is just 3 for 6 with CGI films though. While they have hits Tangled/WIR/Frozen they also have Flops/Disappointments CL/MtR & Bolt. Also, CGI films have been struggling as of late. Look no more than DreamWorks Animation, that has lost over $150 million via write-offs on RotG/Turbo & Peabody. Peabody lost them $57 million earlier this year. This had them move their feature Home from it's Thanksgiving release to late next March. Blue Sky had a big flop last year with Epic. Pixar has never had a film flop & lose money. Every film from Toy Story to MU has been a Box Office hit. What I don't like is when a CGI film flops, it's never because it was "CGI", it's one piss poor excuse after another. But when a 2D film flops, it's because it was in 2D, end of story. I wondered before what would WDAS have done if Tangled suffered the same Box Office fait that P&tF did a year earlier. That would of been 4 CGI flops in a row & maybe they would of went back to 2D once more. But Tangled was a monster hit, and the studio hasn't looked back since

Honestly, this sums up how hypocritical and biased animation studios are.

I know, right?

[disneyphilip]

Yeah, its no confirmation. Might be as close we we'll get to one though. Its nothing I think we didn't already know or assume anyway.

Yeah, I know. Like I said, I'll try not to go obsessing about it. Sadly, I'm just disappointed in John Lasseter right now. i hope things change as soon as Bob Iger left as chairman.

STOP BASHING IGER AND LASSETTER! It's just as annoying as all of 2Disney4Ever's posts!

Stop hating them just because they aren't making 2D features now. Stop forcing them to make 2D films, folks--they'll come back when they do!

[TsWade2]

Yeah, I know. Like I said, I'll try not to go obsessing about it. Sadly, I'm just disappointed in John Lasseter right now. i hope things change as soon as Bob Iger left as chairman.

STOP BASHING IGER AND LASSETTER! It's just as annoying as all of 2Disney4Ever's posts!

Stop hating them just because they aren't making 2D features now. Stop forcing them to make 2D films, folks--they'll come back when they do!

Who are you? Disney's lawyer or something?