Locked Threads & Getting Off-Topic

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Sunset Girl

Post by Sunset Girl »

I see that 2099net has closed down another thread. . .

I just want to say that I understand the decisions made by the moderators in the past few days; I'll go along with whatever Luke ultimately decides to do about all of this.

By the way, I apologize if I have a tendency to get too personal or too carried away around here with my posts; perhaps I've said all I can about these topics anyway. Then again, I'll probably add more if either of them do get opened back up.

Once again, I hope we've learned something here. And I hope that the something has nothing to do with being "right" about the fact that the thread was going to be closed.

It's times like these I'm glad I don't carry the responsibility of being a moderator for this place. :wink:
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Post by chaychay102royal »

Sunset Girl wrote:I see that 2099net has closed down another thread. . .

I just want to say that I understand the decisions made by the moderators in the past few days; I'll go along with whatever Luke ultimately decides to do about all of this.

By the way, I apologize if I have a tendency to get too personal or too carried away around here with my posts; perhaps I've said all I can about these topics anyway. Then again, I'll probably add more if either of them do get opened back up.

Once again, I hope we've learned something here. And I hope that the something has nothing to do with being "right" about the fact that the thread was going to be closed.

It's times like these I'm glad I don't carry the responsibility of being a moderator for this place. :wink:
I am very happy that the abortion thread was closed. I even made comments on there on how it should be closed.

Please, Lazario (and any others who wish to begin political threads)stop with the religion, the politics and the childish "I'm right and you're wrong. And people that are wrong are selfish, ignorant and stupid." I think everyone, especially the moderators, are sick and tired of it.
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Post by Loomis »

I would also like to add that I find the locking of threads to be a bit extreme.

Most UDers seem to come from the US, a country that claims to pride itself on free speech, yet whenever a topic looks like it MIGHT get out of hand, it gets locked. If it is reopened, it gets locked. Why even have the locking option in the first place?

We all know that the Abortion thread got locked last night for the following reasons.
Although given a quick scan of the posts in this thread (I'm at work) everything seems civil, I've decided to lock this thread (for the same reasons as the Rosie/Meltdown thead). I also feel the subtitle of the thread is designed to bring out high emotions.
Well, good! Bring out emotions! If you don't mean what you say, then why even post? If we start locking threads in which people say what they feel, we may as well just have the:

Disney is Great Forum
Slipcovers Forum
Box Cover Art Sucks Forum
Who Is Buying This DVD Forum
Polls and Games

Luke adds that the Abortion thread was designed to push an agenda. Well, aren't all the threads? How boring is it going to get if every thread is a:

"This DVD is being released." Followed by:

"Yes, I will buy"
"No, I won't. Eisner Sucks"

and so on.

Push the agendas, start arguments. That is discussion. If you don't like what is being said in the thread, make your opinion known or ignore it.

I find the action of closing the abortion thread - and any other - illogical and censorship in its ugliest form.

Oh wait. This isn't an open discussion forum. It is "YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS WE TELL YOU" forum. No wonder I stopped posting here. All you people ever want to do is talk about the same old crap.

While I can say I didn't agree with pushing an agenda to the detriment of all others, I thank Lazario for giving people an opportunity to debate a highly contentious issue by having their standpoint challenged.
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Sunset Girl

Post by Sunset Girl »

Loomis wrote:Apparently being civil wasn't enough - the topic was shut down before it had a chance to be started.
Well, thank god someone else finally mentioned this as well.

I'll admit I was angry in one of my posts in this particular thread, when I pointed out that this whole mess started when we moved from the beginnings of a very civil thread that was locked down as a "precautionary measure," manually redirecting us to another thread about a certain television star. And then we get to hear "I told you it was going to locked for getting off-topic," when we were basically invited to go off-topic in the first place. And many, many pages after we got "off-topic" to begin with, might I add.

Look, I'm easy to get along with. I don't want to start any hurtful arguments. And to be honest, I don't really think things got that out of hand, but I've politely been going along with all the moderator's decisions. Why? Once again, I don't want to start any hurtful arguments. And despite that I felt I was reprimanded for chastising administrators or moderators. No reply to my apology? And was my sarcasm at the end completely lost or is that why I didn't get a reply?

[edited here for personal reasons]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I happened to remain respectful about all those subjects, or at least I had until this moment. I am losing my respect. I am still hurting from all of this. I wish I had more time to say what I feel I need to, but I have to leave soon so I can get to my $1000 a day job. Oh wait, did I say $1000 a day? Oops, silly me, wrong post. -Didn't mean to get off-topic there. :roll:

Loomis- thanks for saying several things I was not brave enough to say in these three feedback threads. Nah, I'm not hurt anymore, I'm livid. And I'm starting to feel sick to my stomach again.
Last edited by Sunset Girl on Wed Jun 29, 2005 2:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by 2099net »

Loomis wrote: We all know that the Abortion thread got locked last night for the following reasons.
Although given a quick scan of the posts in this thread (I'm at work) everything seems civil, I've decided to lock this thread (for the same reasons as the Rosie/Meltdown thead). I also feel the subtitle of the thread is designed to bring out high emotions.
Well, good! Bring out emotions! If you don't mean what you say, then why even post? If we start locking threads in which people say what they feel, we may as well just have the:

Disney is Great Forum
Slipcovers Forum
Box Cover Art Sucks Forum
Who Is Buying This DVD Forum
Polls and Games
Well, we do tend to lock some duplicate threads, or merge them with others. Sometimes it's hard to catch duplicates.

But duplicate threads from previously locked threads are different to endless slipcover mutterings. The thread was started with the sole purpose of continuing one previously locked.

So I decided to lock the Abortion thread because it was duplicating the content of a locked thead. What's the point of locking a thread if another is immediately started up again on the same subject? Why bother having it locked? (which of course is a whole other question, and one I feel can be debated if need be)

As a rule of thumb, is it bad practice to continue a conversation when it has been locked. Surely you can understand this. It sort of ignoring the ruling of the board. It may sound harsh, but once a judgement has been made, it should be stuck to.

Sunset Girl, I wasn't critisising any of your posts, or anybody else's in the second thread (although I still stand by my assessment that the subtitle was needlessly emotive).

I may or may not have mentioned my feelings on abortion on this forum in the past (I think I have, long ago). I think most of the long-time members of this forum know I'm what the American's would call a "liberal". But they are immaterial to the matter in question, which was simply upholding a previous decision.
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Post by Luke »

I'm <i>so</i> glad that Loomis has returned to honk the "freedom of speech" horn. :roll: Constructive critcism is welcome but when you try to make the extremist "only moderator's opinions are allowed", that's just silly. I personally haven't closed either of the threads, and I probably would have let both go on far longer myself. Nonethless, try to show me what good was coming out of these discussions unless by "good", you mean insults and hateful comments.
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Post by AwallaceUNC »

Loomis wrote:Most UDers seem to come from the US, a country that claims to pride itself on free speech, yet whenever a topic looks like it MIGHT get out of hand, it gets locked. If it is reopened, it gets locked. Why even have the locking option in the first place?
Yet the moderator who closed that particular thread is from the UK.

And honestly, seeing UD moderators as a collective embodiment of America is a bit silly. It's not as if we see you only as "The Australian." (And to be fair, while they might be the minority, there is a decent number of non-Americans here, which I think is a wonderful thing).

I again want to emphasize that there is no right to discuss any issue here. Hostility is not what UD is going for. The "Bible" thread walked the border line but was mostly ok. The set of members participating in that and in other threads you mentioned are a different set than the ones who have revived the Rosie thread, launched the abortion and homosexuality threads, and started an ever-increasing number of threads to criticize/analyze/praise/criticize-through-praise the administration and moderation here. These members seem to be especially combative (and in some cases, especially young).

Sure, every thread might be an agenda in the sense that everything we say is opinion (the whole "even stated facts are opinions because you believe them to be true" thing). There's a big difference in, say, "I read the Bible and believe it is important and true, but I'm wondering where everyone else stands?" and "Unborn babies are worthless and if you disagree then you're ignorant and evil- discuss!" (paraphrased).

I really don't think closing the new abortion thread was all that pre-emptive, it was already overly hostile from post #1.

And if it's difficult to distinguish between the former and latter (though I'm having trouble seeing how), that's what admin/mods are for. That's their job, and they make a decision. A locked thread should not be an invitation for ten more to open up to discuss the locking, or to pick up where the locked thread left off. That defeats the purpose and a forum can't run constructively in that way.

Again, the focus of this forum is Disney DVDs. Some people can handle Off-Topic discussions of a sensitive nature. Some people can not. If you are one of the latter, then my advice to you is to ignore them and stick to General Discussion and some of the lighter Off-Topic posts. Of course several of these people don't listen to such advice and cause these otherwise-worthwhile discussions to degenerate.

As disappointed as I am by Loomis' decision to publicly blast Luke and Netty and the rest of the moderators, with whom he's been posting forever, at least he <i>has</i> been an active member long before all this drama. I'm honestly annoyed by many relatively new members whose primary contributions have been, at least in part, to these threads. To them, I suggest taking some time to become better aquainted with the forum and its members, and perhaps invest a little more constructively for a while, before forming your opinion on how it should be run and making a big to-do about it in OT and Feedback.

Sunset Girl, if you're "livid" and sick to your stomach, you really shouldn't be. Not be too abrasive here, but, get over it. Maybe these discussions aren't the place for you. Or maybe they are, but if so, be prepared for action to be taken when they get ugly. Off-Topic is for things not specifically about Disney DVDs, which can include sensitive subjects like these, but it's not a home for no-holds-barred debate on current events.

I echo Luke in that constructive and <i>tactful</i> criticism is a good thing, but negative criticism isn't. There's been too much of the latter lately.

I also want to thank all the other members and staff here, aside from a select few who insist on ruffling everyone's feathers, that make this place great.

I wish :roll: came in different font sizes, because this would be a big one if it did. :wink:

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Sunset Girl

Post by Sunset Girl »

2099net wrote:Well, we do tend to lock some duplicate threads, or merge them with others. Sometimes it's hard to catch duplicates.

. . .

As a rule of thumb, is it bad practice to continue a conversation when it has been locked. Surely you can understand this. It sort of ignoring the ruling of the board. It may sound harsh, but once a judgement has been made, it should be stuck to.
I'm sorry if I didn't make it clear that I can totally understand that. To agree with what I said on my first post of this thread, "I'm not looking to continue that particular discussion here; that would totally override the decision to lock the thread." I can understand that, being a moderator, you'd want to make a decision that was consistant with Luke's when it came to the abortion thread.
2099net wrote:Sunset Girl, I wasn't critisising any of your posts, or anybody else's in the second thread (although I still stand by my assessment that the subtitle was needlessly emotive).
Sorry if that's what you got out of my post; I never thought you were for a moment, Netty. I guess I should clarify:
awallaceunc wrote:
Chastising administrators or moderators for it is, in my opinion, uncalled for. It's their job to administrate and moderate, which is what they are doing.
And maybe I made an unfair assumption that what was said there might be directed at me; after all, Aaron said he wasn't directing this at any one member, but this was in a post immediately follwing the one where I said, "And the whole reason that happened in the first place is because <a href="http://www.ultimatedisney.com/forum/vie ... t=66">this thread</a> was locked before we even had the chance for a real discussion. I understand that homosexuality has been brought up before in threads like this locked one and that the debate can get quite heated. . ." I did offer an apology if I jumped to conclusions, wondering if I came off too abrasive. But I felt I had a valid point in saying that I didn't find it fair that the thread created specifically for discussion on homosexuality was locked down before we had a chance for a real discussion, and I didn't think it was right to have to shift the discussion over to a thread about Rosie O'Donnell's marriage, only to get chastised for getting off-topic when that's what we were given to start with. Whether or not a moderator is a seasoned veteran, I didn't feel it was a fair decision to jump to conclusions before letting the conversation have a fresh start and tacking it onto a thread already chocked-full of hatred.

But yes Aaron, I'll get over it. I'll be the first to admit I'm much too sensitive and I'm sure I come off as a whiner. I suppose it's my fault for getting too personal; I most certainly didn't mean to get livid or sick to my stomach, but exactly how important are these subjects to you?
Luke wrote:I personally haven't closed either of the threads, and I probably would have let both go on far longer myself. Nonethless, try to show me what good was coming out of these discussions unless by "good", you mean insults and hateful comments.
I honestly appreciate that, Luke, and I appreciate the fact that you've opened the thread back up for now.

And since you're asking what good was coming out of these discussions, please allow me to say a few things.

I hope I haven't come across as insulting and hateful.

I'm one of those people that needs to reach out and communicate with others; whether or not some of the subject matter is entirely appropriate for a Disney board like this completely out of my hands and is not for someone like me to determine.

But you have no idea how important all this has been for me. I've spent most of my life turning my emotions and opinions inward because of the abuse, but when I've tried posting about my problems on a board specifically for "survivors," I get outcast, ridiculed, and ignored because I was not physically harmed (only emotionally, which I guess doesn't count) and because I was not attacked or raped.

So yes, it may be hard to see or understand but there was some good to come from all of this. Maybe this will come off as especially whiney, but I have no family to turn to anymore, and I grew up under some unfortunate circumstances that kept me from having friends for most of my life. I'm sick of being lonely. I'm tired of having conversations with myself. I've been working hard to get my life back, struggling to come to terms with everything and to be able to talk about it openly.

Being able to do that in these threads as been a productive way to help me heal. I can't be the only one that feels that way, can I?

I love this forum. I love getting to know everyone here and that I get to talk about how much I love Disney without being labeled as immature or weird. But unfortunately, that's exactly how I'm feeling.

Peace out.
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Post by Siren »

Loomis>I have said this before to people just like you. Who throw out "freedom of speech", "Censor Nazi", and everything else.


NO ONE IS KEEPING YOU HERE! If it is SOOOOOOOOO bad, then go find a message board that meets your expectations. Or even better, create your own board and then see how quickly you have to lock, edit, delete, and ban.

So frankly, get over it or move on
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Post by chaychay102royal »

Siren wrote:Loomis>I have said this before to people just like you. Who throw out "freedom of speech", "Censor Nazi", and everything else.


NO ONE IS KEEPING YOU HERE! If it is SOOOOOOOOO bad, then go find a message board that meets your expectations. Or even better, create your own board and then see how quickly you have to lock, edit, delete, and ban.

So frankly, get over it or move on
I completely agree, Siren!
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Post by Lazario »

Loomis wrote:I would also like to add that I find the locking of threads to be a bit extreme.

Most UDers seem to come from the US, a country that claims to pride itself on free speech, yet whenever a topic looks like it MIGHT get out of hand, it gets locked. If it is reopened, it gets locked. Why even have the locking option in the first place?
...
Although given a quick scan of the posts in this thread (I'm at work) everything seems civil, I've decided to lock this thread (for the same reasons as the Rosie/Meltdown thead). I also feel the subtitle of the thread is designed to bring out high emotions.
Well, good! Bring out emotions! If you don't mean what you say, then why even post? If we start locking threads in which people say what they feel, we may as well just have the:
...
Luke adds that the Abortion thread was designed to push an agenda. Well, aren't all the threads? How boring is it going to get if every thread is a: "This DVD is being released." Followed by: "Yes, I will buy" "No, I won't. Eisner Sucks" and so on.

Push the agendas, start arguments. That is discussion. If you don't like what is being said in the thread, make your opinion known or ignore it.

I find the action of closing the abortion thread - and any other - illogical and censorship in its ugliest form.

Oh wait. This isn't an open discussion forum. It is "YOU ARE FREE TO DO AS WE TELL YOU" forum. No wonder I stopped posting here. All you people ever want to do is talk about the same old crap.

While I can say I didn't agree with pushing an agenda to the detriment of all others, I thank Lazario for giving people an opportunity to debate a highly contentious issue by having their standpoint challenged.
THANK YOU. And thank God for giving someone around here the gift of true sight.

SIREN, what's your problem? You think it's more important to challenge someone else's challenge, than to agree or disagree? Do you take any stands, or are you just a yes-man/no-man?
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Post by Siren »

No, I just get sick of all the piss-arse complaining. I find it immature. I guess you didn't seem to understand my post. In which I was making a stand against Loomis' comments. I feel exactly that way. I've been on message boards for over 10 years now. Believe me, I've seen it all and heard it all. I've seen a 1000 Loomis' before. Complain and moan about how "bad" the board is, but still keep coming back. Why exactly? Perhaps he likes the attention? Perhaps he has nothing better to do? I don't know. Frankly, I don't care. I find this board to be open to MANY ideas. If there was a problem of "freedom of speech" on this board, believe me when I say this Lazario, a lot of people would have been banned a long time ago. Not repeatably warned over and over again. Consider yourselves lucky you have an admin like Luke who is willing to put up with the sh!t.
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Post by deathie mouse »

Man! Someone release Cinderella PE 4 months early! Quick!
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Post by AwallaceUNC »

deathie mouse wrote:Man! Someone release Cinderella PE 4 months early! Quick!
rotfl

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Post by chaychay102royal »

deathie mouse wrote:Man! Someone release Cinderella PE 4 months early! Quick!
Why do you say that? :?
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Post by Lazario »

Siren wrote:No, I just get sick of all the piss-arse complaining. I find it immature. I guess you didn't seem to understand my post. In which I was making a stand against Loomis' comments. I feel exactly that way. I've been on message boards for over 10 years now. Believe me, I've seen it all and heard it all. I've seen a 1000 Loomis' before. Complain and moan about how "bad" the board is, but still keep coming back. Why exactly? Perhaps he likes the attention? Perhaps he has nothing better to do? I don't know. Frankly, I don't care. I find this board to be open to MANY ideas. If there was a problem of "freedom of speech" on this board, believe me when I say this Lazario, a lot of people would have been banned a long time ago. Not repeatably warned over and over again. Consider yourselves lucky you have an admin like Luke who is willing to put up with the sh!t.
Okay. That's better.

Now, what about the differences in your post amounts? He's only got 3,500+ more posts than you do. That says something to me. Not much, obviously. But still, something.
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Post by Siren »

Lazario wrote: Now, what about the differences in your post amounts? He's only got 3,500+ more posts than you do. That says something to me. Not much, obviously. But still, something.
:lol:
Oh, so now it's post amounts? Last I checked, I am a fairly new member. Less then a year. And I post just about everyday, but only in threads that interest me and only if I have something to say. I really don't care how long Loomis has been here, but I bet it's longer then me. And as I said, I DON'T care how many posts he's up on me. Oo boy! He talks more then I do. I better start screaming out useless banter and fighting to catch up! Wow, my feelings are hurt, that Loomise beat me in post count. I guess I came in what...10th place? I'll have to condition myself more. Geez Lazario, I expected a better reply then "He posts more then you do!"
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Post by Lazario »

Siren wrote:Geez Lazario, I expected a better reply then "He posts more then you do!"
Stop overestimating me, then. :D
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Post by Disney-Fan »

deathie mouse wrote:Man! Someone release Cinderella PE 4 months early! Quick!
Where? Where?
To the General Discussion says I! :D
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