Disney Blocks Michael Moore's Film

[feedmelinguini]

I'd like to offer an opposing view. I believe that Disney is making a big mistake by interfering with Miramax's distribution of the film. When Disney purchased Miramax, they assured everyone that their influence would be strictly financial, not content-based. Eisner proved this to be wrong, both in the case of Dogma and Fahrenheit 911. (Also, the Big One was announced for DVD preorder, then pulled. I wonder...? )

I believe that we as a society benefit from a wide range of opinion, both in books and movies, as well as public discourse. Censorship is ugly. No one is forcing anyone to watch a particular film or read a certain book. To praise Disney for censoring a film out of fear of losing a Florida tax break for Walt Disney World (let's not forget who is governor) is troubling at best or frightening at worst. Has it become unpatriotic to question our leaders? The Bush family has financial ties to bin Laden through the Carlisle Group. Does this mean that he is acting in concert with bin Laden? Probably not. But don't we owe it to ourselves to explore the topic? Maybe when Bush sent airplanes from airport to airport to pick up bin Laden family members--without questioning them--at a time when even Americans couldn't fly, immediately after the 9/11 attacks, he was acting out of concern for their safety. Then again, maybe there was another reason. I want the questions asked.

Labeling Michael Moore as an absolute idiot is a bit premature, as few people have even seen the film yet. Perhaps viewing the film before criticizing it would be more appropriate. And if censoring it IS the best decision, are we admitting that our country can't handle thought-provoking material? Are we so stupid as a country that viewing a critical piece of art will corrupt us and bring chaos? Or can we discuss issues maturely, respecting those who disagree with us?

Just my two cents,
Lon

P.S. In the interest of equal time, please consider viewing the following site as well:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

[rnrlesnar]

Disney is not obligated to distribute that trash. He can find another distributor. Michael Moore is an obnoxious animal who is no better than the likes of Bin Laden. He hates America and he ought to get his fat a$$ out of this country and move to a "better" place.

[rnrlesnar]

Part of me thinks that releasing the film would actually help Bush. It would show how far the left will go to get him out of office in that the film would be full of outrageous lies and be nothing more than a representation of Moore's warped mind.

Come election time, I think Bush will win by a good margin. You have the 30% who hate him, but I think the majority of the nation is just going to be fed up with the America bashing that the left does every day. They preach that the economy is bad, when it is not, and every little thing that goes wrong in Iraq is blown out of proportion in order to make America look bad. The prisoner abuse thing is ridiculous. Don't know about you all, but I'd rather have naked pictures taken of me over the things Saddam's goons did to prisoners. Where's the apology from Saddam? There was no world wide out cry to defend Iraqi prisoners under Saddam. It makes me sick.
I laugh at the people who think Kerry is a war hero. His motive was simply to be in the military for political gains in hopes that he could be like John F Kennedy. He's a fraud.

[Mr. Toad]

rnrlesnar - please enlighten us on how filmmaking can be equated as bad as killing several thousand people? There seems to be a slight disconnect in your logic. And by the way, sometimes the people who point out what is wrong with their country are the ones that love it the most.

Now, everything Michael Moore has done isnt great. He has taken liberties with the truth(which I do find distasteful), but on the other side he has shown us some truths too. I also dont think he is nearly as insightful as Al Franken.

[feedmelinguini]

I laugh at the people who think Kerry is a war hero. His motive was simply to be in the military for political gains in hopes that he could be like John F Kennedy. He's a fraud.

I really didn't want to go here, but...

I am puzzled. How is Kerry a fraud and Bush a hero (in terms of their military records)? Kerry was in Vietnam and had one of the most dangerous jobs (in terms of percentage of soldiers killed/wounded). Bush served in the Texas National Guard and cannot account for some of his time "served." I realize that politics are emotional, but I just can't figure this one out.

-Lon

P.S. Before you go jumping to a conclusion (based on my comments and signature) that I am a Kerry supporter, please know that he is NOT my first choice. I am just trying to understand these comments and have heard them from many people.

[Mr. Toad]

rnrlesnar - again your logic is deeply flawed. Feedmelinguini has already pointed out the military record issue.

How on earth would anyone want to be subjected to what the US soldiers were doing to those prisoners. The only part of your thought that contained a grain of truth is that what Saddam did was wrong. Of course there is no apology out of him - he was clearly a sociopath. So that gives American soldiers the right to be only slightly worse than him? And that makes them the good guys.

As for the american economy - it faces the double whammy of somewhat low employment(the situation isnt a disaster, but it isnt good either) and rising inflation, led by oil prices exactly what the US began to face in the 70s. And for those of us that lived through it the first time, it didnt turn out very well.

[Loomis]

Disney is not obligated to distribute that trash. He can find another distributor. Michael Moore is an obnoxious animal who is no better than the likes of Bin Laden. He hates America and he ought to get his fat a$$ out of this country and move to a "better" place.

Do you see the irony there? You are supporting the country (America), and presumably all of its ideals (which include the first amendment).

However, you are saying anyone who doesn't agree with YOUR ideals should just get out?

THAT is the exact point of Moore's new picture (which like most controversial pictures, people have judged before they have seen it). The way in which the US government has not only pushed its agenda by using 9/11 as an excuse, BUT the way in which the attitude of "if you are against us your FOR them" has spread (which, if I take your sentiments as written, is exactly what you are saying).

YOUR attitude is no better than those who seek to repress free speech, because in fact that is what you are endorsing. You don't have to agree with all of what your country stands for (because I certainly don't agree with mine most of the time), but if you do support the concept of democracy as you claim to, you can't have it both ways. Why is questioning your government's actions "America bashing"? Surely that is the right of every citizen who lives in a supposedly free country? Or are we only free to do as they tell us?

]The prisoner abuse thing is ridiculous. Don't know about you all, but I'd rather have naked pictures taken of me over the things Saddam's goons did to prisoners. Where's the apology from Saddam? There was no world wide out cry to defend Iraqi prisoners under Saddam. It makes me sick.

I'm speechless! Are you even living on the same planet I am? Wasn't the whole rationale of the US invading Iraq to "free" it, and make it "safe for democracy" (oh, that and the non-existant WMDs).

You are basically saying here certain human rights abuses (i.e. doing naughty things with the dead) are OK, because they pale in comparison to what someone else has done. A VERY fine example that would set for the world! "Ooh, let's torch our prisoners alive, because this other country did much worse. We won't look as bad, and its fine because we are a free country anyways..."

Getting back on topic, as JJJ said "everything Michael Moore has done isnt great. He has taken liberties with the truth(which I do find distasteful), but on the other side he has shown us some truths too." Exactly. That is all we are asking to be done. Allow the film to be seen, so what ever contribution Moore might make/not make can be made/not made.

Comparing his films to a repressive regime is simply stupid. It proves that you have been subject to a good deal of propaganda (ooh, I said it!) yourself. Moore is not trying to say everybody but him is wrong - he is simply trying to point out his own viewpoint - something which I'm sure EVERY citizen of the world would feel as though they had the right to do.

[2099net]

I'm so happy that Disney is refusing to distribute Micheal Moore's new propeganda film. It supposedly links Bush to Al Caida and Bin Laden. Micheal Moore is an absolute Idiot, and can't be expected to get anything even remotely close to accurate. Remember Bowling for Columbine? That was laughable. I hope we can have some serious discourse here, because at HTF, where I regularly post, frowns on this type of discussion.

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com

Well, as I see it, there is no "supposedly" about it. It is a fact that there are line-time links between the Bush and Bin Laden families. If Moore (and indeed other books and commentators in the past) were telling outright lies, they would have been sued or had an injunction issued way before now.

Now, as for the Truth of Moore's films, I'll admit that they're open to question. But guess what? Without Moore making his films most of the issues wouldn't even register in the standard American media.

There's a simple rule of thumb - never believe anything you see in any form of media. There's so few media companies these days with each owning the other, or having part ownership and joint ownership in others that nothing can be taken as the truth. All reports and documentaries to some extent are edited or "spun" to bias a certain view for various reasons. The trick is to actually do further research on what you see and make your own mind up.

I applaude Moore for at least putting this issues into the wider public domain.

[2099net]

Disney is not obligated to distribute that trash. He can find another distributor. Michael Moore is an obnoxious animal who is no better than the likes of Bin Laden. He hates America and he ought to get his fat a$$ out of this country and move to a "better" place.

You know, critisising the people who are democratically elected is no way equated to being "no better then Bin Laden". It's the argument of a child. And how does critisising a number of political decisions, personalities or laws mean "he hates America". Lots of people here critisise Eisner's leadership of Disney. Does that mean that they "hate Disney"? If and when Bush or his successor gets voted out of office, does that mean the majority of the American public "hate America" for voting against him? Because that's the flawed logic you're using.

I'm sick to death of this worthless argument that if you disagree with any argument then you're automatically agreeing with the counter argument. I've never heard such crap in my entire life, and the fact that this nonsense is being force fed on the public (in the UK as well as the US) shows how shallow and pitiful politics are these days. No wonder turnout at the polls is so low. It's because you're all being treated like infants. Anyone with any inteligence knows that complex issues have complex arguments and and major decision needs a full and proper debate which shows all views and all aspects in an adult and challenging manner. Only children think everything in the world is simple black and white.

You know, every few year's there another election. It's a chance for the population to give their verdict on how the elected leadership is progressing. Leaders often get unelected because they are viewed as doing something wrong. It's the lynchpin the democracy you are so proud of - it means leaders have to be transparent in their leadership and are held accountable to their actions and decisions. It means leaders have to serve the public that elected them, and not their own interests. It also means that their actions and decisions and to a lesser extent background and beliefs are open to discussion, debate and critisism AT ANY TIME for ANY REASON.

I suppose in your world, you would want a single election and then the leadership set in stone for the rest of all time, with no bad word ever said against them at all.

[MickeyMouseboy]

I agree with Loomis and Netty 100%! Bush needs to get the hell out of command and stop using war on terrorism excuse to take over a country. that sad thing is that the majority of the american people buy that crap and are brainwashed to believe such nonsense! I think Disney should let Miramax release such movie. Everyone should read foreign papers instead of the wash down american papers. America has been shady to many countries in the past decades and what happened on sept 9th sadly to say we had it coming if it wasnt a conspiracy by bush and osama. but that's another thing.....

[karlsen]

... if it wasnt a conspiracy by bush and osama. but that's another thing.....

It is comments like this that makes a serious debat go of topic. You should realy not go talk about stupid conspiracy theories like that.

[MickeyMouseboy]

... if it wasnt a conspiracy by bush and osama. but that's another thing.....

It is comments like this that makes a serious debat go of topic. You should realy not go talk about stupid conspiracy theories like that.

even if Osama is not involved I know the only reason Bush declared war on Irak was to get his hands on the Oil and for no other reason. he just used 911 as an excuse to attack. Think about it Bush's family fortune comes from oil.

[karlsen]

Bin Laden was involved in 9/11, hi has clearly admitted that himself on released tapes. So there are no debate around that. The liberation of Afganistan was therefore to try and get Bin Laden and his men.

The invation of Iraq was to liberate the Iraqi people. Bush has wanted this for a long time, but has not found any excuse yet. 9/11 was his excuse and he used it for all it was worth.

Attacking Iraq just over Oil is stupid. America would never earn back all the costs that it had invading the country. Even President Carter has stated so, and he is one of those against the war.

It thakes a lot of people to decide on wheter to invade or not. If Bush was only thinking of his own wealth then he would never have gotten the others with him on this. I belive that Bush did this only because he looks upon it as his God given duty as leader of America.

I don't find that any less disturbing, but we must not put the blame where it should not be, because that only leads the debate over to something that almost everybody understands are false.

[Son of the Morning]

I'm so happy that Disney is refusing to distribute Micheal Moore's new propeganda film. It supposedly links Bush to Al Caida and Bin Laden. Micheal Moore is an absolute Idiot, and can't be expected to get anything even remotely close to accurate.

AHAHAH. Wait a minute... you're glad they're refusing to distribute it, but it's because you don't want to hear about the links to "Al Qaeda" (really, you're thinking of rich Saudi families, notably the Bin Ladens)... and you haven't done any intensive research into the subject yourself? You're just brushing it off? That's fairly comical: Pilgrim, Moore wasn't the first person to breach the topic... if you were up on off-FOXCNNMSNBC politics and news, you'd be at least casually acquainted.

It's pretty damned amusing, here... you're coming across as a caricature.

Anyway.

This film will be profitable. Immensely so. So, by normal standards, they shouldn't even think of dropping it. But, thanks to the GOP in Florida, by releasing this movie, they're set to LOSE money through tax break withdrawals. Does anyone else see that as a major problem?

[Son of the Morning]

P.S. In the interest of equal time, please consider viewing the following site as well:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/wackoattacko/

Fantastic. Beat me to it.

[Just Myself]

As much as I think the man's an idiot, this is just good ol' Eisner saying someone died and made him god. The public has a right to see this movie, and like the case with Song of the South, this is just that moron we call CEO of Disney trying to censor Americans to keep them "Pure", when we live in a time of sex, violence, drugs and Micheal Moore films

[rnrlesnar]

rnrlesnar - again your logic is deeply flawed. Feedmelinguini has already pointed out the military record issue.

How on earth would anyone want to be subjected to what the US soldiers were doing to those prisoners. The only part of your thought that contained a grain of truth is that what Saddam did was wrong. Of course there is no apology out of him - he was clearly a sociopath. So that gives American soldiers the right to be only slightly worse than him? And that makes them the good guys.

As for the american economy - it faces the double whammy of somewhat low employment(the situation isnt a disaster, but it isnt good either) and rising inflation, led by oil prices exactly what the US began to face in the 70s. And for those of us that lived through it the first time, it didnt turn out very well.

I'm not saying what the soldiers did was right, but compared to what other POWS have dealt with, it's nothing. Would you rather be on a death march to build a bridge, or be stripped naked and have women's underwear put on your head? The outcry over this is 100x louder than protests against what Saddam did to prisoners.
How can you say what the soldiers are doing is slightly worse than what Saddam did?
Unemployment is right at its average. It's not as bad as Kerry would like you to believe.

[rnrlesnar]

I compare Moore to Bin Laden in that they both obviously hate America and everything it stands for. Moore would be glad to model our government after communist Russia.

[rnrlesnar]

It is comments like this that makes a serious debat go of topic. You should realy not go talk about stupid conspiracy theories like that.

even if Osama is not involved I know the only reason Bush declared war on Irak was to get his hands on the Oil and for no other reason. he just used 911 as an excuse to attack. Think about it Bush's family fortune comes from oil.

If this were true we wouldnt have $2.00 a gallon oil. You are a fool if you still think this is a war for oil. I'll go on record as saying I truly hate people like you. You are a detriment to this country.

[rnrlesnar]

I'm so happy that Disney is refusing to distribute Micheal Moore's new propeganda film. It supposedly links Bush to Al Caida and Bin Laden. Micheal Moore is an absolute Idiot, and can't be expected to get anything even remotely close to accurate.

AHAHAH. Wait a minute... you're glad they're refusing to distribute it, but it's because you don't want to hear about the links to "Al Qaeda" (really, you're thinking of rich Saudi families, notably the Bin Ladens)... ?

I thought Moore did documentaries, not left wing fantasies.