Frozen Becomes The Highest Grossing Animated Film Ever

[Disney Duster]

(The only part that let Frozen down for me was when Anna punched Hans at the end. Kind of destroyed the whole "equality" point that they had going but anyway.)

What equality did it destroy? How?

[thelittleursula]

I'm sorry but Hans deserved that punch. Hans left Anna to freeze to death and then wanted to behead her sister.

Even if Kristoff punched him, it still wouldn't be right, because Anna needed to stand up for herself and not let Hans' abuse get to her.

But Hans shouldn't of been evil in the first place, the plot-twist was unnecessary and random, but he's evil, and Anna needed to whack him hard.

[DisneyFan09]

Now here's my interpetation on the "Pocahontas Syndrome". Now some of you may know that The Lion King and Pocahontas were in development at the same time and Katzenberg thought Pocahontas was going to be the next Beauty and the Beast and had little hope for The Lion King because of how new and "experimental" it was; and no one thought that it would be a hit and what do you know, it was. So when Pocahontas was almost ready to be released everyone at the studio had an air of "cockyness" thinking that if The Lion King was a hit then Pocahontas was going to be as great as that one, and of course, it was not the case.

As for Big Hero 6, it won't fall victim of the "syndrome" because it doesn't fall into the same structure that Frozen does and it's a Marvel property that's obscure and no one (the public and the studio), will think it will be a smash hit like Frozen and it will do well on it's own merits, therefore avoiding the cocky behavior the previous management suffered.

Good theory. But also remember how similar all the films from the 90's were. With the exceptions of the underrated "Rescuers Down Under" and "Fantasia 2000", all of the films in the 90's followed a similar formula; Musicals about protagonists who were outcasts or loners, had sidekicks, had to win over a villain and had love interest. Although "The Lion King", "Pocahontas" and "Hunchback" took risks, they were still quite integrated to the formula.

With the exception of "Frozen" and "Tangled", Disney are making more diverse films. "Wreck-It-Ralph" is a good example of it; a non-musical, Pixaresque film that took audiences by surprise (although the protagonist is still an outcast). But I love the Disney-formula and as long as it's done well, I don't mind to see a good "formulaic" Disney movie.

And remember; Although "Pocahontas" is seen as the one who destroyed the early Renaissance, it still wasn't a flop and made 141 millions domestically.

[thedisneyspirit]

I'd see a bit more differences between Pocahontas and Big Hero 6's dislikes. Many people found the interpretation of the Native Americans racist and the historical innacurracies terrible.

(funny how only disney is crapped for historical innacuracy, whereas other unfaithful Pocahontas films get off scott-free from criticism).

With Big Hero 6, I only see extreme Marvel fanboys getting annoyed at the film not being faithful to the comics. And maybe some people who'll think it's so "racist" to have a film starring japanese characters...

I'm hoping the female characters will be interesting. By the info, they sound good and kinda cool. I guess they'll be on the same vein of Calhoun and Vanellope, in terms of characterization (since they won't be princesses after all...I hope their popularity doesn't go down for that same reason though).

[DisneyFan09]

Many people found the interpretation of the Native Americans racist and the historical innacurracies terrible.

True, but there were some praise for the Natives as well. Some people thought the interpretations were good. And at least it was more accurately than the Natives in "Peter Pan".

(funny how only disney is crapped for historical innacuracy, whereas other unfaithful Pocahontas films get off scott-free from criticism).

People tend to forget that the story of "Pocahontas" is a myth as well. There aren't many written information about what actually happened between her and John Smith. It's confirmed that Pocahontas (a.k.a. Matoaka) was a real person who were a witness to the arrival of the English settlers and that she met Smith, but besides that, the story is surrounded in mystery. And besides, the historical Smith didn't have a good reputation.

[candydog]

(The only part that let Frozen down for me was when Anna punched Hans at the end. Kind of destroyed the whole "equality" point that they had going but anyway.)

What equality did it destroy? How?

Basically saying it's ok and funny for a woman to be violent against a man when that certainly wouldn't be accepted if the genders were reversed.

And no, I don't need anyone to point out that Ursula was stabbed by a ship etc, a direct punch to the face is very different and to see it exploited for comedy really undermined the point of equality that the movie made. Imagine if the Prince walked up to Lady Tremaine and casually decked her at the end of "Cinderella" while the audience laughed.

[Disney Duster]

Basically saying it's ok and funny for a woman to be violent against a man when that certainly wouldn't be accepted if the genders were reversed.

And no, I don't need anyone to point out that Ursula was stabbed by a ship etc, a direct punch to the face is very different and to see it exploited for comedy really undermined the point of equality that the movie made. Imagine if the Prince walked up to Lady Tremaine and casually decked her at the end of "Cinderella" while the audience laughed.

I do see your point on "if a female does it, it's comedic", and how that ruins it. However, two things: One is, who says that was comedic in the first place? I didn't find it comedic, I found it to be girl-power. Second, a man punching a female will in most cases be disturbing because, hate to say it, females are not generally physically as strong as men.

[Disney's Divinity]

I do get candydog's point about violence being wrong in all cases, not just when it's done in a "traditionally" bad way (such as a man hitting a woman, a white person denigrating a non-white person, a heterosexual beating a homosexual, etc.). That said, I don't think Anna hitting Hans falls under that, just because he tried to murder Anna's sister/Arendelle's Queen. He got off easy, when he should have been put to death.

[candydog]

I do get candydog's point about violence being wrong in all cases, not just when it's done in a "traditionally" bad way (such as a man hitting a woman, a white person denigrating a non-white person, a heterosexual beating a homosexual, etc.). That said, I don't think Anna hitting Hans falls under that, just because he tried to murder Anna's sister/Arendelle's Queen. He got off easy, when he should have been put to death.

Ah, so if the genders were reversed and Hans was an evil young Princess it would be ok for the male protagonist to punch her in the face because she deserved it?

I agree that Anna had to stand up to Hans, but she didn't need to punch him like that in order to do it. Sentencing someone to death is in fact a lot more dignified and central to a story than just casually knocking someone out for laughs after the climax has already happened.

[DancingCrab]

Anna punching Hans after attempted murder doesn't bother me. If we're going to talk about inappropriate abuse between Disney characters, I think Rapunzel takes the cake in her CONSTANT frying pan beatings and rendering Flynn unconscious.

[qindarka]

Anna punching Hans after attempted murder doesn't bother me. If we're going to talk about inappropriate abuse between Disney characters, I think Rapunzel takes the cake in her CONSTANT frying pan beatings and rendering Flynn unconscious.

She only hits him twice, one quite justifiably when he sneaks into the tower and the other to re-hide the crown.

[Marce82]

Well... there are a few differences here...

When Ursula got stabbed, she was completely out of control, and about to deliver the final strike towards Ariel, having already defeated Triton and owning the seas.... she HAD to be stopped.

The reason I find Anna's punch so offputting (among other reasons), is because it was pointless, and petty. Hans was already defeated. Had she punched him in an attempt to save Elsa, or save Kristoff (THAT would have been girl power!), then it would have been ok. But I dont recall ANY other disney hero/heroine being violent after the villain has already been defeated. Villans are the aggressors, heroes/ines are the ones who are violent as a defense to themselves or others.

Note: Rapunzel's pan thing was partially out of fear. She had been told that people were evil, and this man was an intruder. Im not a fan of its slapstick-y nature, but I find it more forgivable than Anna's punch.

[candydog]

Well... there are a few differences here...

When Ursula got stabbed, she was completely out of control, and about to deliver the final strike towards Ariel, having already defeated Triton and owning the seas.... she HAD to be stopped.

The reason I find Anna's punch so offputting (among other reasons), is because it was pointless, and petty. Hans was already defeated. Had she punched him in an attempt to save Elsa, or save Kristoff (THAT would have been girl power!), then it would have been ok. But I dont recall ANY other disney hero/heroine being violent after the villain has already been defeated. Villans are the aggressors, heroes/ines are the ones who are violent as a defense to themselves or others.

Thank you! That's exactly how I felt! There was no need for that punch. If Anna had to have the final word there were plenty of other ways that she could have told Hans how she felt.

I just think it's silly that so many people here think it was justified when if the tables were turned it would not be considered acceptable at all.

[DisneyFan09]

Anna punching Hans after attempted murder doesn't bother me.

I actually liked that Anna punched Hans. He deserved it and it would be less satisfying if she didn't.

[candydog]

Anna punching Hans after attempted murder doesn't bother me.

I actually liked that Anna punched Hans. He deserved it and it would be less satisfying if she didn't.

Oh I give up

[Disney's Divinity]

Ah, so if the genders were reversed and Hans was an evil young Princess it would be ok for the male protagonist to punch her in the face because she deserved it?

I guess not, although I have to admit if the protagonist was a girl punching another girl it wouldn't bother me, so I guess it's just social rules that have been stamped into my head. >>;

[Warm Regards]

I personally think violence, same sex, male on female, or female on male, is dumb. Many people say the latter is justified, but why? Because it's good to see the stereotypical "weak" female hurt the stereotypical "strong" man? Because it's funny to see a guys masculinity degraded when a feminine figure harms him? Only in extreme circumstances is violence ever warranted. Anna punching Hans is in no means liberating. It just serves to cement how poor his transition to the dark side was, that she as the "good" character was justified to hurt him, a "bad" one.

This post on tumblr sums up my thoughts on the gender inequality issue.

Though at least the movie is a step up from the novelization, where Kristoff punches Hans first, knocks him out, then Anna gets her own jab in.

[unprincess]

yeah the punch was lame, also it assumes that all men are expected to be big & tough physically that they should be able to handle any violence inflicted on them & are strong enough emotionally to just shake it off. Except thats as much a gender stereoptype to men as always being sweet, delicate, & graceful is to women.

[candydog]

Ah, so if the genders were reversed and Hans was an evil young Princess it would be ok for the male protagonist to punch her in the face because she deserved it?

I guess not, although I have to admit if the protagonist was a girl punching another girl it wouldn't bother me, so I guess it's just social rules that have been stamped into my head. >>;

Yes, which is why I hated the punch at the end so much. The movie really did break down so many of those social rules and change the depictions of men and women so much that I was just so sad to see it fall at the final hurdle.

And as others have pointed out, the image of Anna punching Hans is destructive to the depiction of both genders. It says that it's ok and funny for men to be the victims of violence but at the same time it makes women appear so weak that a physical act of violence on their part shouldn't be taken seriously. It doesn't do anyone any favours.

I know you see scenes like this in films all the time, but Frozen just seemed to be making such progress that I hated to see something like this spoil it!

[Lady Cluck]

at people saying a woman punching a man on film is just as uncomfortable as a man punching a woman. How disturbing.