Elton John & Lady Gaga Collaborate On Song For 'Gnomeo &

[Goliath]

Yet one more reason NOT to go watch this dreadful-looking film.

I see a lot of sour grapes from some sore folk who just can't accept that Lady Gaga is here to stay. And why should pop have any unconventional stars?

It wouldn't be so bad if she actually had any talent at all. (Other than dress up funny and pimp her 'singing' with computer tricks.)

Oh, and it was on David Letterman's show that Bruce Willis wore that 'meat-head'.

[milojthatch]

I just saw the trailer. I kept thinking it felt like that horrid animated film, "Alpha and Omega." It makes me sad to see so much crappy animation in the world. I'm happy Disney has the sense to not put their name on this one.

[skyler888]

Goliath, GaGa certainly has talent! have you ever seen any of her live acoustic performances?

she has an amazing voice, is quite good at playing the piano, and writes all her own music (even if you don't enjoy all her music, you must admit that some of her songs are catchy)

[magicalwands]

is quite good at playing the piano, and writes all her own music

This is how Gaga gained my respect. I do not think many music artists can play the piano. (I am talking about the pop artists from the 90's and today: Britney, Nsync, etc.)

Add that she is being the way she is to make the world okay for us to wear whatever we want and be whoever we want; to allow us to truly be ourselves. Yes, her meat dress was a little crazy, but it has a point! Although I can't defend her music because it is on pure taste, it is simply just fun singing Telephone.

Anyways, back on topic: I'm surprised my pun is so funny!

[2099net]

I'm so glad this thing is under Touchstone. It looks atrocious. And Lady Gaga, well I wouldn't dare talk bad about the world's most beloved Diva of Déja Vu, so I'll just leave it at that.

also, this can probably go into the existing Gnomeo thread... if there is one?

You know, I bet people said the same thing about The Nightmare Before Xmas. It looks atrocious, a Disney film about monsters and kidnapping Santa Claws. And Tim Burton, didn't he do that awful Batman Returns movie I took my kids to? And Danny Elfman, what does he know about writing good songs, being part of that strange, silly, cult Oingo Boingo (or whatever you call it, it makes GaGa sound sane) group.

[stitchje1981]

Yet one more reason NOT to go watch this dreadful-looking film.

I see a lot of sour grapes from some sore folk who just can't accept that Lady Gaga is here to stay. And why should pop have any unconventional stars?

It wouldn't be so bad if she actually had any talent at all. (Other than dress up funny and pimp her 'singing' with computer tricks.)

Oh, and it was on David Letterman's show that Bruce Willis wore that 'meat-head'.

I aboslutely LOVE your way of thinking



I couln't agree with you more and thanks for refreshing my memory with the David Letterman show mate

[Goliath]

Why, thank you! Very kind of you! And here's the video of Bruce wearing the meat-head and Dave... well, you'll just have to watch.

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[Lazario]

I see a lot of sour grapes from some sore folk who just can't accept that Lady Gaga is here to stay. And why should pop have any unconventional stars?

It wouldn't be so bad if she actually had any talent at all. (Other than dress up funny and pimp her 'singing' with computer tricks.)

You know you're asking for it again, G. I've already told you what I think about your ability to judge the pop / dance genre. I don't think you have the experience to back up your talk - and I think you lump people like Lady Gaga in the batch with a lot of performers that she is easily superior to.

Put a little substance for once in a reply to a discussion of pop music and then we'll talk. You don't gain points in my book for just nodding along with the Conservative-America bobbleheads in this thread who are bitching pretty much just because she dresses strangely. Who in America honestly does that anymore when it isn't Halloween? When Bjork, David Arquette, etc. do, they get crucified for "wanting attention" when they're just expressing their personalities through their outfits.

And as for your claim that she doesn't have talent, I see you never bothered to respond to people like Skyler888 and Magicalwands.

[The_Iceflash]

I definately think Lady Gaga has talent and like some of her songs myself. I do think some of them are over-produced and would have sounded better if they weren't. I also don't think her songs aren't that spectacular to warrant the attention they've gotten. I think she's over-rated personally. I also think she wore out the outfits. It was cool and interesting at first but I think just it's getting old.

That said, I was impressed by their grammy performance and see potential in them working together. Just as long as the film's soundtrack doesn't consist of dance-pop/electro-pop.

[Goliath]

You know you're asking for it again, G.

Why you think I wrote that?

I've already told you what I think about your ability to judge the pop / dance genre. I don't think you have the experience to back up your talk

And I believe I have told you I don't give a flying fuck about that.

Put a little substance for once in a reply to a discussion of pop music and then we'll talk. You don't gain points in my book for just nodding along with the Conservative-America bobbleheads in this thread who are bitching pretty much just because she dresses strangely.

I didn't know liberals and socialists were required to like Lady Blabla in order to not get called 'conservative'.

And as for your claim that she doesn't have talent, I see you never bothered to respond to people like Skyler888 and Magicalwands.

There's nothing that gets past you, is there?

[Lazario]

I definately think Lady Gaga has talent and like some of her songs myself. I do think some of them are over-produced and would have sounded better if they weren't. I also don't think her songs aren't that spectacular to warrant the attention they've gotten. I think she's over-rated personally. I also think she wore out the outfits. It was cool and interesting at first but I think just it's getting old.

I just don't see anyone who is currently a better pop / dance artist in America. And people judge the idea of a public persona over quality of actual final product way too much here, as well. I'm really tired of all the nitwits who just say she's too "out there" and think that opinion even relates to her talent.

I've already told you what I think about your ability to judge the pop / dance genre. I don't think you have the experience to back up your talk

And I believe I have told you I don't give a flying fuck about that.

Then don't get involved in discussions about artists like Lady Gaga. Nobody wants to hear what someone who doesn't care thinks- we have millions upon milliions of losers in any given Yahoo! News comment section to do that for us.

Put a little substance for once in a reply to a discussion of pop music and then we'll talk. You don't gain points in my book for just nodding along with the Conservative-America bobbleheads in this thread who are bitching pretty much just because she dresses strangely.

I didn't know liberals and socialists were required to like Lady Blabla in order to not get called 'conservative'.

I guess yesterday was a real sloooooooow day for you.

And if you choose to reply here just to piss me off, you are Trolling. And frankly, I don't have the patience to deal with you when you refuse to think. You're bad enough when you're actually convinced you know what you're talking about.

I can take good natured ribbing. But there's also a line where you know I consider this your way of making a fool out of me. You're going over it for no good reason. There hasn't been a single member on this board more critical of bad mind-numbing superficial "entertainment" than I am (ask anyone here who likes The Gilmore Girls). And yet, I find quality in this artist. She's not stupid. And her fans (bigger fans than I am, I just get excited by her because her work is still much fresher than the majority of what comes out over here) wouldn't have to treat her like a goddess / godsend if people who don't care would shut the hell up until they learn something about her. You are fueling the very thing you're criticizing. Why? Just so you can pretend to be extreme or tough and piss people off.

[PatrickvD]

Lady Gaga is NOTHING NEW

I would go through a lot of trouble trying to articulate why I dislike her, but sociologist Camille Paglia pretty much summed up brilliantly in the Sunday Times exactly how I feel about Gaga:

"Despite showing acres of pallid flesh in the fetish-bondage garb of urban prostitution, Gaga isn’t sexy at all – she’s like a gangly marionette or plasticised android. How could a figure so calculated and artificial, so clinical and strangely antiseptic, so stripped of genuine eroticism have become the icon of her generation? Can it be that Gaga represents the exhausted end of the sexual revolution? In Gaga’s manic miming of persona after persona, over-conceptualised and claustrophobic, we may have reached the limit of an era…

... Gaga seems comet-like, a stimulating burst of novelty, even though she is a ruthless recycler of other people’s work. She is the diva of déjà vu."

And that's all I see when I look at her: recycling. From Elton John and Britney Spears to Cher and David Bowie... and well, everything in-between.

Lady Gaga does not exist and I find there's nothing interesting about her. Just my opinion of course.

[The_Iceflash]

I definately think Lady Gaga has talent and like some of her songs myself. I do think some of them are over-produced and would have sounded better if they weren't. I also don't think her songs aren't that spectacular to warrant the attention they've gotten. I think she's over-rated personally. I also think she wore out the outfits. It was cool and interesting at first but I think just it's getting old.

I just don't see anyone who is currently a better pop / dance artist in America. And people judge the idea of a public persona over quality of actual final product way too much here, as well. I'm really tired of all the nitwits who just say she's too "out there" and think that opinion even relates to her talent.

I agree. I don't think her "out there" persona has anything to do with her talent. I personally think the persona is getting old though. I can see her becoming a caricature of herself very soon.

Lady Gaga is NOTHING NEW And that's all I see when I look at her: recycling. From Elton John and Britney Spears to Cher and David Bowie... and well, everything in-between.

I agree. That's one of the reasons why I think she's overrated. I don't see what makes her standout musically.

[Disney's Divinity]

"Despite showing acres of pallid flesh in the fetish-bondage garb of urban prostitution, Gaga isn’t sexy at all – she’s like a gangly marionette or plasticised android. How could a figure so calculated and artificial, so clinical and strangely antiseptic, so stripped of genuine eroticism have become the icon of her generation? Can it be that Gaga represents the exhausted end of the sexual revolution? In Gaga’s manic miming of persona after persona, over-conceptualised and claustrophobic, we may have reached the limit of an era…

... Gaga seems comet-like, a stimulating burst of novelty, even though she is a ruthless recycler of other people’s work. She is the diva of déjà vu."

Gaga androgynous? How perceptive.

Really, wasn't that the point (along with her "Monster" Ball)? I don't think she ever represented herself as a "sex icon" like Madonna or Britney (both of who I could care less about). To me, people have just pinned that onto her because of the predominance of women like Katy Perry, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton.

[Goliath]

And that's all I see when I look at her: recycling. From Elton John and Britney Spears to Cher and David Bowie... and well, everything in-between.

And her act of changing 'images' every month is reminiscent of Madonna. Good call, Patrick!

I just don't see anyone who is currently a better pop / dance artist in America. And people judge the idea of a public persona over quality of actual final product way too much here, as well. I'm really tired of all the nitwits who just say she's too "out there" and think that opinion even relates to her talent.

It's not just her public persona. I could deal with that if she made even halfway decent music. But how people could fall for "Po-po-po-po-pokerface, po-po-pokerface" or "Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro, Alejandro", with a computer to brush up her singing, I will never understand. Now, to each his own. You don't have to like what I like and I don't have to like what you like. But you seem to be on a crusade to convince everybody that Lady Gaga is the best artist since the invention of music. And you can't leave it alone when someone disagrees. You have to personally insult and bash that person.

Then don't get involved in discussions about artists like Lady Gaga. Nobody wants to hear what someone who doesn't care thinks- we have millions upon milliions of losers in any given Yahoo! News comment section to do that for us.

You have to read better before you start calling your fellow forum members nasty names, Lazario. I didn't say I don't care about discussing Lady Gaga. I said I don't give a damn about what you think my 'credentials' are. I don't need your seal of approval before entering a discussion on pop music.

I guess yesterday was a real sloooooooow day for you.

And if you choose to reply here just to piss me off, you are Trolling. And frankly, I don't have the patience to deal with you when you refuse to think. You're bad enough when you're actually convinced you know what you're talking about.

Awwww, come on, Lazario. Please enlighten me: why do you think *anybody* who doesn't like Lady Gaga is a conservative nitwit? You made that charge. Please explain. Don't try to distract me by attacking me personally. Why do we have to like Lady Gaga in order to not be seen as conservatives? What's the relationship between disliking Lady Gaga and being a conservative? I wanna know.

I can take good natured ribbing. But there's also a line where you know I consider this your way of making a fool out of me.

You're the one who's making a fool out of yourself, not me. I merely stated my opinion on Lady Gaga. I didn't ask you to go into a rant and attack me. You're doing it yourself.

You are fueling the very thing you're criticizing. Why? Just so you can pretend to be extreme or tough and piss people off.

A lot of people in this thread have been very negative about Lady Gaga. Why are you singling me out? Could it be this is something personal from your side?

[Lazario]

Lady Gaga is NOTHING NEW

I would go through a lot of trouble trying to articulate why I dislike her, but sociologist Camille Paglia pretty much summed up brilliantly in the Sunday Times exactly how I feel about Gaga:

"Despite showing acres of pallid flesh in the fetish-bondage garb of urban prostitution, Gaga isn’t sexy at all – she’s like a gangly marionette or plasticised android. How could a figure so calculated and artificial, so clinical and strangely antiseptic, so stripped of genuine eroticism have become the icon of her generation? Can it be that Gaga represents the exhausted end of the sexual revolution? In Gaga’s manic miming of persona after persona, over-conceptualised and claustrophobic, we may have reached the limit of an era…

... Gaga seems comet-like, a stimulating burst of novelty, even though she is a ruthless recycler of other people’s work. She is the diva of déjà vu."

And that's all I see when I look at her: recycling. From Elton John and Britney Spears to Cher and David Bowie... and well, everything in-between.

Lady Gaga does not exist and I find there's nothing interesting about her. Just my opinion of course.

That is a perfect reply, THANK YOU. Absolutely fascinating insight from Camille (though I don't agree with her on Basic Instinct, so I sure wouldn't say she always gets-it). And, I mean to say, it's very accurate about somebody. But not about Lady Gaga. And this is another one of the things that attracts me to her. She forces everyone to admit they hate the superficiality in our culture. Also making hypocrites out of so many people it's not even funny. But if anything, she's not a creator of it - she's a reaction to it.

Sexual revolution? Now, this is where her argument completely crumbles and falls apart. Lady Gaga is not trying to be sexy. She never thought of herself, personally, as being sexy. She has said this several times in interviews. Didn't Camille ever try this thing called: research? For years before "Just Dance" exploded in January '09, she was a writer for other artists. She would not have gotten a career as a singer and performer without the years on the other side of the music business. She's not some dumb girl who thought she could sing that the record industry picked up at the last minute and made her into something because they thought she was trendy or sexy: she is a self-made act. They knew she could write and perform her own material and so they just gave her a contract. Lady Gaga is just expressing whatever sex she is and what she feels. She encourages others to say whatever they are and feel too. But she also does it in a way that isn't obvious- just accept it. Even when I've thought her videos meant nothing, they've been studied and dissected by highly intelligent people who say they all mean somethng underneath the hype, etc. I've had to accept it myself to get to where I am now on her Fanship Scale. You can't just judge her at Face Value.

But you seem to be on a crusade to convince everybody that Lady Gaga is the best artist since the invention of music.

Incorrect. I wrote this very clearly in my last post:

I just don't see anyone who is currently a better pop / dance artist in America. And people judge the idea of a public persona over quality of actual final product way too much here, as well. I'm really tired of all the nitwits who just say she's too "out there" and think that opinion even relates to her talent.

Now, enlighten me: how does that in your book equal: "trying to convince everybody Lady Gaga is the best artist since the invention of music"??? I already told Margos she's an easy artist to dislike and takes a long time to get used to. Several times. Many months ago. People can dislike her all they want to. But, and this is the way I am with everything - when people feel entitled to speak their minds about something and I think they're not being smart about the way they're doing it: I tell them so. That's my only crusade. One I've been on for the entire 5+ years I've been here. It sure isn't fueled by Lady Gaga. She wasn't on the map in '05.

When I hear a good actual criticism of her (and not merely some personal hang-up or head-trip someone's on that has almost nothing to do with who she really is which they feel compelled to indulge in publically and blame someone else for), I will applaud it.

(THIS NEXT semi-paragraph is left over from part of a response I partially deleted):
I won't say: why do I bother with you? I know why I do. But some discussions- you don't try at all. You let someone else do your work for you and quote them with a clap or a picture or something. Here, it seems to be Patrick. In the past, it's been Super Aurora.

And you can't leave it alone when someone disagrees. You have to personally insult and bash that person.

To use one of your favorite words: bullshit. You've pulled this routine before and it's a familiar pattern (last time, it was the Godfather thing). I didn't bash a single person on UD, I - like many here - bashed the Yahoo! losers. And, sure, suggested that what you were saying was no better than they've got. But if anything, I'm saying to you: don't be like that. You're better than that. That's the way I always am. I look at very few people as a lost cause. If I ever seem to be doing that- it's just because I am tired to dealing with your lesser routines. I'd like to be treated better than this and I think it's the topic of discussion that's dictating how you're deciding to treat me.

I didn't say I don't care about discussing Lady Gaga. I said I don't give a damn about what you think my 'credentials' are. I don't need your seal of approval before entering a discussion on pop music.

I work with what you give me. You had nothing to say to start out. I was sick of the drivel that I hear every day with no bite in it (again, what the others say; people I have no interest in hearing their verbal diarrhea parroted), so I let you know that. Maybe I poisoned the discussion we might have had by giving you the same thing you were giving this discussion but you don't change very often. You're quite the bull, you know. I've simply decided to stop waving the red flag in front of you.

Awwww, come on, Lazario. Please enlighten me: why do you think *anybody* who doesn't like Lady Gaga is a conservative nitwit?

Has your opinion of me completely changed in the last few days? Have you learned nothing about me whatsoever in the dozen or so arguments we've had over the past 2 years?

I'm stubborn, not stupid. A stupid person thinks "*anybody* who doesn't like Lady Gaga is conservative." And you should know by now I don't make points literally. That gets attention. From *anybody*. What I meant was: the points people have been making here are from Conservative-Minded Thinking. The Points People Here Have Been Making. I also indicated this in my post, which you replied to. Allow me to show you where:

You don't gain points in my book for just nodding along with the Conservative-America bobbleheads in this thread who are bitching pretty much just because she dresses strangely.

Therefore, I say the charges Stitchie and Estefan have made were thoughtless snapshot judgments based on the conservative viewpoint of: what right does any woman have to be aggressive and try to be provocative and sexual at the same time, etc. You probably didn't stop to think about how your words and actions would look to someone like me.

You know I'm like this, G. I don't know why you haven't learned to: Ask Questions with me instead of: Immediately Jump to Accusations. I'm not someone here for your enjoyment or persecution. I only even bother replying to you because you usually understand that I have a damn point. I can't always make it by being literal. If something I've said looks shocking - ask me about it. You should know me better by now. Even when it comes to Lady Gaga, I'm not stupid.

I can take good natured ribbing. But there's also a line where you know I consider this your way of making a fool out of me.

You're the one who's making a fool out of yourself, not me. I merely stated my opinion on Lady Gaga. I didn't ask you to go into a rant and attack me. You're doing it yourself.

No, this is a case of: You know I take this seriously. You're not taking this subject seriously. You're trying to manipulate me into the person you're talking about so you have a chance to go after someone you say is bashing people, insulting people, etc. Which I haven't done here.

You are fueling the very thing you're criticizing. Why? Just so you can pretend to be extreme or tough and piss people off.

A lot of people in this thread have been very negative about Lady Gaga. Why are you singling me out? Could it be this is something personal from your side?

I really don't think so. I've said many times - people should know what the hell they're talking about before they open their mouths. That's why I'm not cool with the Lady Gaga bashing. I haven't found any substance in it that's actually about her and not them - their own prejudgments of young, white women (whatever factors about her make bashing her interesting to them). They're not original. It's a Stupid Bandwagon everyone jumps on because they don't know one other pop figure they can trash for being different from the rest. Why is that such an appealing aspect of a person to attack or make pathetic jokes about? Oh, I hear you say: she's got no talent. But YO, do you remember anything I've said about music and what it is and what it means to people? Have you been ignoring me this whole time or did you honestly forget?!

[skyler888]

lol dang this topic is getting hot and heavy

[milojthatch]

lol dang this topic is getting hot and heavy

Agreed.

[Goliath]

Incorrect. I wrote this very clearly in my last post: [...]
Now, enlighten me: how does that in your book equal: "trying to convince everybody Lady Gaga is the best artist since the invention of music"???

Well, let's see, you said she's the best musical performer in the US nowadays, which is a very subjective claim, but which you bring as a stone-cold fact. You trash everybody who goes against your opinion on Lady Gaga. For instance, you call them 'nitwits', or 'losers' or you say 'they're nodding along with conservative America'. If somebody doesn't like Gaga, there must be something wrong with them, if I were to believe you. Yes, I would call that a crusade. Especially when you take into account replies like the last one you made to PatrickvD, in which again, you act like she's the best singer since the invention of music.

People can dislike her all they want to. But, and this is the way I am with everything - when people feel entitled to speak their minds about something and I think they're not being smart about the way they're doing it: I tell them so. That's my only crusade.

Oh, please. If that were really true, you would at least take the people who express their dislike for her seriously. Who's to say whether or not people "are being smart" about their opinion on Lady Gaga? What does that even mean? Who's the judge of that? Oh, right, *you* are. You are the judge of whether or not people are "smart" about an artist that you are obsessed with. Somehow that doesn't come of very convincing to me...

I won't say: why do I bother with you? I know why I do. But some discussions- you don't try at all. You let someone else do your work for you and quote them with a clap or a picture or something. Here, it seems to be Patrick. In the past, it's been Super Aurora.

What are you talking about? I've made a very extensive post in which I formulated my own thoughts on Lady Gaga. I replied to you directly. Quoting PatrickvD was only a tiny part of that. And why shouldn't I? Why shouldn't I let other people know I agree with them? And why am I defending myself over this? How did this thread suddenly became about *me* instead of Lady Gaga? Like I asked you in my previous reply: why are you singling out me again? Quit your personal vendetta against me.

To use one of your favorite words: bullshit. You've pulled this routine before and it's a familiar pattern (last time, it was the Godfather thing).

Like I said above: quit this personal vendetta. You don't like me? Fine. Just don't use it as a cover-up in every other discussion. If you can't stand that I don't like Lady Gaga, that's your problem. Don't bother the entire forum with it.

I didn't bash a single person on UD, I - like many here - bashed the Yahoo! losers.

You did bash people. You called anyone who doesn't agree with you 'nitwits' and you were talking bullshit about my so-called 'credentials' on discussing pop music. You always have to discredit people personally.

If I ever seem to be doing that- it's just because I am tired to dealing with your lesser routines. I'd like to be treated better than this and I think it's the topic of discussion that's dictating how you're deciding to treat me.

What is this; a page from a soap opera script?

I work with what you give me. You had nothing to say to start out.

That's your opinion. I don't like Lady Gaga, and *thus* I "had nothing to start out". That's your reasoning. You're trying to dress it up nice; hide it in fancy words and endless paragraphs; trying to impress me or others with your so-called calm and logic reasoning. But we can see through that. The only way you would be content with my posts, is if I had said Lady Gaga is a good artist and a good choice for this film. And again: why should I give a flying fuck whether or not *you* think my opinions and arguments are right? You don't like them, fine. Come with arguments of your own to dispute me --instead of making it all personal again, and making it about me.

You know I'm like this, G. I don't know why you haven't learned to [...]

Oh, for the love of G...! Why am I even wasting my time on this endless psychobabble?

lol dang this topic is getting hot and heavy

That is what you get when you say you think Lady Gaga is an overrated worthless second-rate dress-up singer: Lazario will go ballistic on you.

[Lazario]

Incorrect. I wrote this very clearly in my last post: [...]
Now, enlighten me: how does that in your book equal: "trying to convince everybody Lady Gaga is the best artist since the invention of music"???

Well, let's see, you said she's the best musical performer in the US nowadays, which is a very subjective claim

It would have to be, since I said, and I quote to you for the 2nd time:

I just don't see anyone who is currently a better pop / dance artist in America.

I already admitted my opinion was subjective, Goliath. Where did I lose you...

You trash everybody who goes against your opinion on Lady Gaga. For instance, you call them 'nitwits' or 'losers' or you say 'they're nodding along with conservative America'

BULLSHIT: I said people who dismiss her based on what they make of her behavior, fashion, or music videos are nitwits.

As for calling people losers, again what I said referred to the people in the Yahoo! Comments Section. That place is filled with them. They (the people I'm clearly referring to) don't think about what something is - they just react to seeing it. They say things like "Gaga has no faith in Our Lord and Savior." Not to mention they have the attitude of "what makes this person news?" If they weren't losers, they would be used to celebrities making the headlines for doing nothing. Just look at every celebrity couple who've been getting together and splitting up SINCE THE 80'S!!!!!!! Cher, Elizabeth Taylor, Larry King, Jennifer Aniston, Ricki Lake, Charlie Sheen, Hugh Grant, Eddie Murphy, Britney Spears, Johnny Depp - the list goes on forever. If these people gave a flying fuck about the superficiality of celebrity headlines, they wouldn't try to blame everything on Lady Gaga because it looks to them like all she's doing is trying to get attention with trampy clothes because they think she thinks she's the hottest thing since Pamela Anderson.

That is what I meant, G. And really, it's also what I said. So:
Stop twisting my words around.

People can dislike her all they want to. But, and this is the way I am with everything - when people feel entitled to speak their minds about something and I think they're not being smart about the way they're doing it: I tell them so. That's my only crusade.

Oh, please. If that were really true, you would at least take the people who express their dislike for her seriously. Who's to say whether or not people "are being smart" about their opinion on Lady Gaga? What does that even mean? Who's the judge of that? Oh, right, *you* are. You are the judge of whether or not people are "smart" about an artist that you are obsessed with. Somehow that doesn't come of very convincing to me...

Goliath, I have told you several times so far: people are judging her without knowing anything about who she is or what she is doing. They don't want to see her any other way than the way they've chosen to see her. And I wouldn't care about that if they didn't feel they must share their reactions (not thoughts) with the world. You're telling me that I'm saying everyone has to like her. If you can read, you know that's not true.

Give me one single piece of anything shared here or elsewhere that signals to you the people who hate her are actually judging her based on her actual talent and not on the fact that she's different. One thing you've seen said in this thread SO FAR. One moment of criticism that actually had to do with her writing, singing, dancing, etc. Instead, it's all about the way she dresses, behaves, etc. She's not "normal." She's screwed up- her parents didn't raise her right, she went crazy or fell in with a bad crowd (that is what people are implying with their accusations of her not being normal). But what about the messages in her music? The quality of the production of it? Where in any of your replies have you addressed any thing like that at all? That's why I'm telling you you're not trying to discuss this. I don't see anything real in anything you've said about Lady Gaga. And I've been looking this whole time.

What are you talking about? I've made a very extensive post in which I formulated my own thoughts on Lady Gaga. I replied to you directly. Quoting PatrickvD was only a tiny part of that. And why shouldn't I? Why shouldn't I let other people know I agree with them?

EXTENSIVE? WHERE? I must have been out that day.

As for quoting Patrick, read what I said again: for some discussions- you don't try at all; you get other people to do the work for you and reply with a clap (verbal or picture).

You think the same old charge of autotune criticism is going to trash the entire body of work of a very interesting musician and artist, who is clearly breaking ground in terms of - if nothing else - popularity? Hell, post Christina Aguilera's "Beautiful," which was considered something of an empowerment theme for the gay community, we (gay community) have come to (very much) across-the-board embrace a figure of an almost robotic drive (work ethic) to dance hard and encourage others to express whatever is inside of you: whether it's ugly, sexy, attractive, bizarre. Whatever. She is a woman who accepts people blindly and a lot of people like that. And that threatens the conservative view of things in this country. That's why I don't take lightly to people criticizing her for stupid, irrelevant things.

Of course, if you had said something smart, maybe original, or the slightest bit funny - I would appreciate it or give you credit for it (not that you would ever admit that you haven't been saying anything of substance about her thus far). I say it for the 3rd or 4th time to you, I still consider Roisin Murphy and Goldfrapp (and ask anyone here how I feel about Björk) to be far superior artists working today. They are far more deeply provocative. But they don't look at America or try to give us something that is distinctly about us. Lady Gaga is a kind of mimic, yes. In visual style. But she's also a mirror to show everyone how cheap inside we've become. Which she does without using religion to judge people. She sings love songs that aren't about love. Songs about fame that aren't glorifying it. Sex songs with violent imagery. Relationship songs about the impossibility to connect. She has a lot to say, but no one talks about it. Instead, they reduce everything she does to: she's an attention whore. Why shouldn't someone come along and say something about those people?

and you were talking bullshit about my so-called 'credentials' on discussing pop music. You always have to discredit people personally.

No, I'm trying to get them to use a different argument. I told you you don't know anything about dance and pop music because you continue to say you don't care about it. So, I told you - either stop getting involved in these discussions if that's true, or come up with real arguments. That's what I said, that's what I meant.

And why shouldn't I bring up what you said in the past about pop music? You replied to me. You keep it up. You won't let it go either. We never deal with it. It just gets sand laid over it until Lady Gaga comes up again. So, of course I'm going to always remind you that you pissed all over everything I had to say about Goldfrapp and Roisin Murphy. IT WAS INCREDIBLY RUDE. And yes, in my eyes, that degrades what you are saying here about Lady Gaga. As long as you continue to get by on just parroting the bare mimimum of what everyone else says.

Why would I forget that? You don't give me ANY credit for anything I have to say about music. Yet, you won't stop speaking to me and trying to cut me down.