Which Disney film has the best or worst script?

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Post by DisneyFan09 »

Escapay wrote:Honorable mention goes to Aladdin for having a good balance between scripted dialogue and improvisation (mainly due to Robin Williams) whilst still telling a balanced story and creating a protagonist that has an edge and flaws but is still inherently good.

Dishonorable mention goes to Chicken Little. As much as I love the film, half the conversations sound cliched and "This is the part where we realize Plot Point C, then have a discussion on Plot Point D". I still enjoy it, because it's a meta-fictional mockery of animated CGI comedies of its time (whilst still trying to be an animated CGI comedy). Plus, the story itself (how does Chicken Little "redeem himself" after the sky-is-falling faux pas, and will people accept him?) is a worthwhile story to be told. It just needed to be told better.

albert
I agree with your statement with Aladdin. It has a clever script, balancing many components. The only thing who is really lacking is the development of Princess Jasmine, but the film wasn't really about her, though.

"Chicken Little" has a very thin screenplay, but that's not the worst problem of the film (in my opinion); The film can't just balance between the emotional and funny moments. The emotional moments seems forced, while some of the jokes are just akward.
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

estefan wrote:
PixarFan2006 wrote:Best: Beauty and the Beast
Worst: Chicken Little
Pretty much agreed with PixarFan09 on this one. Though, if we're also including direct-to-video releases, Pocahontas II and The Little Mermaid II has some pretty terrible writing, too. And when it comes to live-action, My Favourite Martian and High School Musical are just embarrassing screenplays all around, in my opinion.
I think I saw "My Favourite Martian" once (which proves how forgettable the film really is). You shouldn't expect a TV movie as "High School Musical" to have a profound script, but the film is stretching the theme all through the movie. It's just like the screenwriters saying: "Oh no, we must stretch out the theme, otherwise this film won't last long enough".

I don't mind the screenplays of "The Little Mermaid II" and "Pocahontas II". Not that those movies are great, but they're just passable enough. The Disney sequel who has the worst writing, in my opinion, is "The Lion King II". It's just a thinner, more poorly developed version of "Romeo and Juliet".

It's quite interesting that you mention "Pocahontas". Despite that I love that movie, it has some lazy writing and a rather rushed script (listening with your heart, the lack of development of Smith and Pocahontas' relationship, the ending who seems forced and out of place).
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Post by Rudy Matt »

Best: Darby O'Gill and the Little People (wonderful dialog, rock-solid story construction)
1st Runner Up: 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
2nd Runner Up: Mary Poppins
3rd Runner Up: The Three Lives of Thomasina
4th Runner Up: Old Yeller

Worst: Dinosaur (the dialog absolutely destroyed the film)
1st Runner Up: Unidentified Flying Oddball
2nd Runner Up: Million Dollar Duck
3rd Runner Up: Ten Who Dared
4th Runner Up: Herbie Goes Bananas
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Post by Wonderlicious »

Escapay wrote:Worst Script - Sleeping Beauty. Hear me out before you attack.
omg how can u be such a diznee fan when u think tat sleeping beauty has the worst script ever???? :x omg, u make me cry more than i have since watching twilight saga eclipse. :cry: :cry: how can u call it korny when aurora is the prettiest princess like ever (even more beautiful than bella swan). aurora and phillip are one hot commodity. :twisted:

anyway sleeping beauty has the best script as it has such sinsere moments (like when aurara starts crying when she realizes that she may neva see phillip again not realising she will :cry: :(). pochanotas also has the best script as it is great and john smith is hotter than joe jonas. :D

treasure planet has the worst script as its a boys movie and disney should make more universal films like the princess movies. pinocchio is boring and that movie has no meaning in any of our lifes. :x and as for fantasia...wat a dum script! they dont even say anything, not even mickey! :x so much for being a classic... :roll:
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Post by 2099net »

Based on responses, I'm assuming we're talking non-Pixar animations?

Best script:

Treasure Planet by far. (Even with all of B.E.N.) I say this because it's absolutely NOT Treasure Island, and yet, it also absolutely IS. It does things many more literal adaptations fail. It captures the feel of the original work, without being a slave to it.

It also has intelligent use of foreshadowing, while even I'm undecided if Jim is the animated hero character with the most depth, John Silver most definitely is the animated villain with the most depth and motivations.

That said, it could have done without Morph really. While B.E.N. doesn't annoy me as much as he seems to annoy other people, he was enough in the "Disney cliche" count. So its not a perfect script.

Worst Script:

Easily Sleeping Beauty. It is so flimsy it doesn't even need a light breeze to fall apart.

But I also have issues with Beauty and the Beast (considering it was nominatated for a Best Picture Oscar®) - it's just not good enough for such an accolade. Not only is it full of stereotypes but fundamental ethical issues are simply ignored which should be addressed.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

DisneyFan09 wrote:It's quite interesting that you mention "Pocahontas". Despite that I love that movie, it has some lazy writing and a rather rushed script (listening with your heart, the lack of development of Smith and Pocahontas' relationship, the ending who seems forced and out of place).
What's wrong with listening to your heart? It's logical and popular advice... I agree to an extenet about the lack of development between John Smith & Pocahontas' relationship...but the movie is only so long; "If I Never Knew You" is a welcome addition, allowing us to see them together in a tender moment, but yeah, maybe an extra scene of two of them sounds good...but who knows; besides "If I Never Knew You", apparently the filmmakers put in what they wanted us to see. And how do you think the ending feels forced and out of place? I mean, it's good that they stayed true to history (as far as them not staying together)...I think the movie is pretty perfect. The ending gets me every time.
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Post by REINIER »

Escapay wrote:Yeah, but when it's a Disney film on a Disney board, then it's a sign of the Second Coming. :P

albert
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

blackcauldron85 wrote:
DisneyFan09 wrote:It's quite interesting that you mention "Pocahontas". Despite that I love that movie, it has some lazy writing and a rather rushed script (listening with your heart, the lack of development of Smith and Pocahontas' relationship, the ending who seems forced and out of place).
What's wrong with listening to your heart? It's logical and popular advice... I agree to an extenet about the lack of development between John Smith & Pocahontas' relationship...but the movie is only so long; "If I Never Knew You" is a welcome addition, allowing us to see them together in a tender moment, but yeah, maybe an extra scene of two of them sounds good...but who knows; besides "If I Never Knew You", apparently the filmmakers put in what they wanted us to see. And how do you think the ending feels forced and out of place? I mean, it's good that they stayed true to history (as far as them not staying together)...I think the movie is pretty perfect. The ending gets me every time.
Sorry, I didn't formulated myself right. I should rather write that I meant the language gap, which was solved by listening to the heart. Yes, it is a nice lesson, but a little unlogic.
I don't think there's anything wrong by the ending scene itself; It's indeed a powerful moment. But now we're talking from script-perspective, right? I think if they absolutely should have a unhappy ending, they could have a made it more plausible. Although the historical John Smith was send back to England after being wounded, he would more probably die on his voyage back (as he would in the film). And Pocahontas actually had the choice to go with him. I can't come up with other ideas to end the (Disney) story in a tragic way, but that's one of the examples which proves that "Pocahontas" suffers from lazy writing.
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

Wonderlicious wrote:
Escapay wrote:Worst Script - Sleeping Beauty. Hear me out before you attack.
pochanotas also has the best script as it is great and john smith is hotter than joe jonas. :D

treasure planet has the worst script as its a boys movie and disney should make more universal films like the princess movies. pinocchio is boring and that movie has no meaning in any of our lifes. :x and as for fantasia...wat a dum script! they dont even say anything, not even mickey! :x so much for being a classic... :roll:
John Smith is hotter than any Jonas Brother.

How do you think that Treasure Planet has a bad script?

Fantasia was intented to be a experimental project.
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Post by Rudy Matt »

blackcauldron85 wrote:What's wrong with listening to your heart? It's logical and popular advice...
Maybe, but as a method of foreign language education, it's fairly crappy. I could listen to my heart all day long, that isn't going to teach me how to speak Spanish. I guess this only works for Native American tongues.
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Post by Rudy Matt »

2099net wrote:But I also have issues with Beauty and the Beast (considering it was nominatated for a Best Picture Oscar®) - it's just not good enough for such an accolade.
Agreed. The songs are fantastic. The rest of the film is thin and cliched.
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Post by Wonderlicious »

DisneyFan09 wrote:John Smith is hotter than any Jonas Brother.

How do you think that Treasure Planet has a bad script?

Fantasia was intented to be a experimental project.
lol, that was "Twilight Fangirl Wonderlicious". It's a spoof of Disney Princess fans who can't like anything that doesn't have a girly protagonist in it, as well as moody teens who are obsessed with Disney Channel stars and Twilight. :p This personage is supposed to be stupid; surely everyone will understand that Fantasia is not a script-based film. ;) If you want a serious answer, here we go...

Being serious now...

As far as Sleeping Beauty really goes, as much as I agree that it's a classic overall, one cannot simply ignore that it has a number of plot problems that should have been more properly solved in pre-production. The main problem that sticks out is the idea that the fairies would leave Aurora completely alone in the castle when she's technically still not safe; the idea of just giving her a bit of peace is a bit threadbare. There's also the question of Maleficent's evil, and the fact that she could let a bunch of blatantly incompetent goons do a simple job she could easily do herself, in addition to the use of padding (the kings' drinking scene), though a number of Walt-era films are admittedly also guilty of this. As for the dialogue, some of it is a bit ludicrously archaic ("yonder top most tower") and corny ("the cottage in the glen" has become a family in-joke of sorts - since when was Sleeping Beauty Scottish?), yet equally, it should be best viewed within the context of its time period. For example, I think that the "14th century" line probably wouldn't have sounded as corny back in 1959 as it does today. Either way, considering that the original fairy tale is one of the weaker of the traditional tales for screen adaptation (charming, yet short and almost anecdotal), I think that from a script and story perspective, it came out reasonably well.

I originally didn't really like Treasure Planet, but I watched it again about two years ago and found it a lot better. It's a well structured story overall, and the characters are very well defined. One thing that did make me cringe, though, was the use of expressions and nuances that I felt brainless executives thought would look cool to modern audiences. One thing that sticks out Doppler doing a little dance and singing "Go Doppler, Go Doppler", which just seems lame, as something of that ilk would do in any film. Needless to say, it overall is a daring piece of work, and ought to be at least applauded.

As for my personal choices for best and worst scripts:

Best:
Despite what "Twilight Fangirl Wondy" says, Pinocchio has to be one of the best scripts. It does what a fairy tale intends to do, by making everyday trials and tribulations really mirror the more fantastic misadventures that Pinocchio gets into. The exploiters have evident motivation, and their victims are equally as oblivious. The Coachman is probably the most underrated and overlooked of the classic Disney villains. It also has a protagonist whose flaw is his own loveable innocence and naivety: a cipher, one could argue, yet ultimately someone whose personality helps drives the action more than a lot of other classic Disney protagonists.

I'd also mention Aladdin for reasons Escapay has already given, and 101 Dalmatians for its sheer simple yet genius use of fusing elements of an escape thriller (akin to the WW2 films of its era) into a film about dogs in London.

Worst:
Chicken Little is definitely down there. I don't want to sound like part of the "modern is bad" mob, but it just is extremely inconsistent. It tries to be two things at once. It starts off as a low-key Ugly Duckling story about a son trying to make his father proud, yet ultimately switches into a silly kiddy film about aliens invading. It overall just seems schizophrenic and unsure of itself.

The Black Cauldron is also pretty bad. It isn't very sure of itself and completely loses direction once they leave the Horned King's castle. The characters are a bit flat; the Horned King is just evil personified (and little more than that), Gurgi is an annoying and unsympathetic funny animal, and the princess and especially the minstrel are tag-along cyphers). The fact that the guy voicing Taran seems uninterested and an overall bad actor doesn't help.
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

2099net wrote:Based on responses, I'm assuming we're talking non-Pixar animations?

Best script:

Treasure Planet by far. (Even with all of B.E.N.) I say this because it's absolutely NOT Treasure Island, and yet, it also absolutely IS. It does things many more literal adaptations fail. It captures the feel of the original work, without being a slave to it.

It also has intelligent use of foreshadowing, while even I'm undecided if Jim is the animated hero character with the most depth, John Silver most definitely is the animated villain with the most depth and motivations.

That said, it could have done without Morph really. While B.E.N. doesn't annoy me as much as he seems to annoy other people, he was enough in the "Disney cliche" count. So its not a perfect script.

Worst Script:

Easily Sleeping Beauty. It is so flimsy it doesn't even need a light breeze to fall apart.

But I also have issues with Beauty and the Beast (considering it was nominatated for a Best Picture Oscar®) - it's just not good enough for such an accolade. Not only is it full of stereotypes but fundamental ethical issues are simply ignored which should be addressed.
About "Treasue Planet"; I always got the impression that Scroop was the main villain, while Silver was something in between. He was torn being his desire to get the treasure and his affection for Jim. It got me a little confused, by the way, but it made him a complex character. B.E.N. annoyed me first time, but he grew on me.

And when it comes to "Beauty and the Beast"; Finally someone else who thinks it isn't as marvellous as Disney fans wants it to be. Although I have nothing against that movie, I don't find it outstanding and marvellous. I think one of the reasons that many people love that film so much is because of the message; Love can heal anything.

I agree that it's full of stereotypes (although I like Belle), although I have mixed feelings about the enchanted objects. Although they're not obnoxious enough as the Gargoyles from "Hunchback", they still have their akward moments, (although they have their good moments as well). Gaston is also a weak link; He's just not a worthy antagonist enough. He's too shallow and not menacing enough, compared to other Disney villains. People have complained about Ratcliffe in "Pocahontas" and Clayton in "Tarzan" being weak villains (which they are), but they're nothing compared to Gaston.

Otherwise, when it comes to script problems; As a reviewer once pointed out, why would the Prince open the door to the old woman himself when he had servants? And if the servants had waited ten years for a woman to come to the castle (as they point out in "Be Our Guest"), would it make our Prince only 11 years old when he was transformed into a Beast?
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Post by 2099net »

DisneyFan09 wrote: About "Treasue Planet"; I always got the impression that Scroop was the main villain, while Silver was something in between. He was torn being his desire to get the treasure and his affection for Jim. It got me a little confused, by the way, but it made him a complex character. B.E.N. annoyed me first time, but he grew on me.
Well, of course, that's the point. John Silver changes. The environment and his interactions with Jim change him. How many other scripts have such ideas in them? Treasure Planet has proper, logical and thought-out arcs for most of the characters. Most Disney films only have arcs for the heroes/heroines.
And when it comes to "Beauty and the Beast"; Finally someone else who thinks it isn't as marvellous as Disney fans wants it to be. Although I have nothing against that movie, I don't find it outstanding and marvellous. I think one of the reasons that many people love that film so much is because of the message; Love can heal anything.

I agree that it's full of stereotypes (although I like Belle), although I have mixed feelings about the enchanted objects. Although they're not obnoxious enough as the Gargoyles from "Hunchback", they still have their akward moments, (although they have their good moments as well). Gaston is also a weak link; He's just not a worthy antagonist enough. He's too shallow and not menacing enough, compared to other Disney villains. People have complained about Ratcliffe in "Pocahontas" and Clayton in "Tarzan" being weak villains (which they are), but they're nothing compared to Gaston.
But its the objects which are the main problem. They're not good characters. They get a free pass because they're voiced and animated so well. But look at them for what they really are: national stereotypes. They're shortcuts to great characters. I know some may say there's not enough time to flesh-out the characteristics of the three main objects (Ms Potts, Cogsworth and Lumiere) but if that's the case, why have them at all? What do they add to the story apart from humour? In fact, I find that they distract from the story, being as despite being obviously afraid of the Beast's rages, they have no moral doubts about basically "pimping" Belle out, with no concern for her safety - most likely motivated just as much for their own gain than for Belle's or the Beast's. I really think the story would be better without them - that way Belle's love for The Beast would unquestionably be her own feelings, untainted by others.

I also have problems with Gaston - another stereotype. How much more refreshing would it be if Gaston wasn't a sexist, egotistical jerk and actually loved Belle, and genuinely attempted to rescue her. How would Belle react to the Beast if her love was torn between Gaston and The Beast? As it is, there's nothing to pull her away from The Beast.

As for Ratcliffe and Clayton, I don't find them weak at all. I'm pretty sure Ratcliffe is closer than you may think to the sort of pompus, pen-pushing people who, through privilidged family ties were placed in such positions.

As for Clayton, he's evil and realistic in his evil. Not everybody has to have schemes to take over kingdoms or kill their step-children to be evil.
Otherwise, when it comes to script problems; As a reviewer once pointed out, why would the Prince open the door to the old woman himself when he had servants? And if the servants had waited ten years for a woman to come to the castle (as they point out in "Be Our Guest"), would it make our Prince only 11 years old when he was transformed into a Beast?
I don't really see those as major problems, although I always thought it was silly the staff were punished as well as the Prince. I'm sure you can find such matters with most fairytales, but a little thought could have prevented these issues.
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

Well, of course, that's the point. John Silver changes. The environment and his interactions with Jim change him. How many other scripts have such ideas in them? Treasure Planet has proper, logical and thought-out arcs for most of the characters. Most Disney films only have arcs for the heroes/heroines.
That's true. I've never thought about it before you mentioned it. Although the film don't have the most memorable characters, it does have a intention/purpose for almost everyone of them (although I used to find it a bit distracting that Jim and his mother were obviously the only humans in a planet with different creatures). But I like this movie, though.
But its the objects which are the main problem. They're not good characters. They get a free pass because they're voiced and animated so well. But look at them for what they really are: national stereotypes. They're shortcuts to great characters. I know some may say there's not enough time to flesh-out the characteristics of the three main objects (Ms Potts, Cogsworth and Lumiere) but if that's the case, why have them at all? What do they add to the story apart from humour? In fact, I find that they distract from the story, being as despite being obviously afraid of the Beast's rages, they have no moral doubts about basically "pimping" Belle out, with no concern for her safety - most likely motivated just as much for their own gain than for Belle's or the Beast's. I really think the story would be better without them - that way Belle's love for The Beast would unquestionably be her own feelings, untainted by others.
Agreed. But there comes the problem with the famous Disney-formula; Including components to both kids and adults. The filmmakers created the enchanted objects to light up the mood (as they did with the animals on "Pocahontas" and the Gargoyles in "Hunchback"), when they're actually distracting the (screen)time and development Belle and the Beast could eventually have. And as you point out, it seems as they want Belle to fall in love with the Beast for their own sake (although Chip appears to be the only one who genuinly cares for Belle).

Ironically, I never found the enchanted objects particularly funny as a kid, but strangely enough I liked the Gargoyles as a kid (probably because they were a tad more cartoonier). But it proves that they did what they were supposed to do; Entertain the audience. Now they're just devastating the film, although "Hunchback" is, in my opinion, still one of the strongest releases from Disney.
I also have problems with Gaston - another stereotype. How much more refreshing would it be if Gaston wasn't a sexist, egotistical jerk and actually loved Belle, and genuinely attempted to rescue her. How would Belle react to the Beast if her love was torn between Gaston and The Beast? As it is, there's nothing to pull her away from The Beast.
Or it would be more refreshing if Gaston was a stronger antagonist in general. A egoistic, shallow jerk isn't good enough antagonist to a Beast. I do have the feeling that deep down he might felt a affection for Belle, but his shallow, sexist nature didn't allow him to do the rational thing.

But Belle being torn between Gaston and the Beast wouldn't be such a bad idea. That's one of the issues with "Pocahontas"; Kocoum wants to marry her, but she doesn't want to marry him (and it's no wonder, since he was so serious). Although he defintively had some affection for her, it would be more refreshing if she was torn between him and Smith (although she does feel torn between two guys in the sequel). The plot would be just as strong without the betrothal and if a random Indian attacked Smith, for example.
As for Ratcliffe and Clayton, I don't find them weak at all. I'm pretty sure Ratcliffe is closer than you may think to the sort of pompus, pen-pushing people who, through privilidged family ties were placed in such positions.
I was talking in behalf of those who has critized Ratcliffe and Clayton. But speaking for myself, I do have mixed feelings about Ratcliffe. He does have a villanious nature and does want to kill the Indians because of the gold, but does have some moments where he doesn't come off as threatning as a villain should be.
As for Clayton, he's evil and realistic in his evil. Not everybody has to have schemes to take over kingdoms or kill their step-children to be evil.
That's true, but I think many people think consider Clayton as a too stereotypical, shallow and conventional villain; No debt, no hidden past, ect. The main problem with "Tarzan" is the fact that the script has much going on (now that we're talking about scripts), telling the whole life-story of Tarzan in just 90 minutes or so. To quote a reviewer; The conflict between Tarzan, Kerchak and Sabor is enough for a whole movie, but it's fades quickly for a second plot (and to be true to the Disney formula); Tarzan's meeting humans for the first time and getting torn between them and his ape family, which would be enough for a second act itself. Although the plot of Clayton capturing the ape family does add some thrills and excitement, it becomes too conventional and typical Disney-fare and that's another reason that many consider Clayton as a weak villain. Sabor was a good antagonist, though, although a savage, non-talking leopard shouldn't be considered as evil.
I don't really see those as major problems, although I always thought it was silly the staff were punished as well as the Prince. I'm sure you can find such matters with most fairytales, but a little thought could have prevented these issues.
I don't consider those as major problems either, but they came up in my mind when we were mentioning plot holes/script problems. Yes, it was unfair that the servants should be punished as well.

I like you, though. You seem to have a mind of your own. And you come with good statements as well.
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Post by Super Aurora »

Disney Duster wrote:
Super Aurora wrote:The bible is a over glorified fan-fiction, and Shakespeare is overrated.
NO it's not. At least you don't know about the first one.
I saw this post coming in from a MILE away. Learn to take a joke.

And how do you know that I don't know about the first one? Maybe I really do know. Image

Disney Duster wrote:And second, as someone who has finally grown to understand and love Shakespeare more fully being in theater, I think it deserves most if not all of it's praise.
It's good but it's praise way too much than it should be.
Disney Duster wrote:ALL of Walt's fairy tales have elements of Shakespeare (fate, fairies, stars, royalty, love at first sight, a ball, forced marrige and awakening from death or death driving them apart) and many elements of the Bible. In fact, some of those things are in most of Walt's films, period!
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Escapay wrote: Worst Script - Sleeping Beauty. Hear me out before you attack. The movie is very nice to look at. It's very nice to listen to. But it's got such a weak script and story that it makes Home on the Range look like Shakespeare. Lines like "You're living in the past, this is the 14th century!" just sticks out like a sore thumb, and the plotline inconsistencies are worse. Wouldn't Maleficent suspect something after the first five years of her goons searching for babies? When the fairies return to the cottage and see a hat on the ground, how do they know that it's Maleficent who took Phillip? Why doesn't the queen say anything at all beyond "Then you're not offended, Your Excellency" and "Oh, no!" and why do the fairies leave her alone minutes before sunset? So many "wtf" moments in the entire story. Also, while the movie is titled Sleeping Beauty and she is the focal point of the entire thing, the catalyst for everything that happens, the character itself is very very dull and more or less mute in the second half of the film. Everyone else is then structured to be fighting for or against her that their own character doesn't develop beyond being all-good or all-evil. Yes, it could simply be a way of saying "this is the archetypal good v. evil" but it simply doesn't work (for me) the way it may have been intended to. Like I said, it's very nice to look at, very nice to listen to, but it makes for a lousy read.

Well said. As much as I like Aurora, her movie's screenplay sucks.
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Post by merlinjones »

"Pollyanna" and "The Parent Trap!", both written and directed by David Swift, are among the best written scripts (if not THE best) from the Walt Disney era: sharp, resonant, funny, dramatic, emotional - - excellent characters, themes, situations. Bravo, David (and Walt)!
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Post by merlinjones »

>>As much as I like Aurora, her movie's screenplay sucks.<<

It should be noted that there were NO complete scripts or screenplays for the classic era animated features, only extended treatments and detailed sequence outlines, some with suggested dialogue. The stories and final dialogue were worked out in storyboard form, in the recording booth and in editing the leica reels.
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Disney Movies Best and Worst Scripts

Post by Disney Duster »

Super Aurora, I won't take jokes that offend what I take to be sacred. That's something I just won't change on.


Anyway, boy do I feel people are being too critical.

I don't think any Disney film has just stereotypes until the latest flops. And make sure you aren't confusing stereotypes with archetypes, and even then Disney always made them more than just archetypal.

A shallow, egotistical jerk isn't a good enough antagonist to the Beast? What about a hunter, the natural enemy of a beast, or a cold-blooded jealous (attempted) murderer, of which he also is because the Beast is really a person, and which past Disney villains were. Or how about how Gaston seems like he may be what the Beast was when he was younger, that he had to change from, how's that for being his match? Okay, maybe he wasn't jealous or insecure and was just killing him, but they easily could have intended him to be. If not, well then yes, he would have been better if he was those things. I don't deny that he did feel for Belle as much as he thought he could love someone, though.

I also just realized, making Gaston a good person who loved Belle just like the Beast would completely lose the point the filmakers were trying to make: that people can seem good because they look good but really they may not be and you need to find a person who has real beauty and goodness inside.

Who the heck decided "how a villain should be"? Can't there be many, many different types?

They have to have debt or a background? What? I don't need to know every villain's past, that is unnecessary, and frankly if they decide every villain is only a villain because of his past that completely negates that some people do choose to do evil things, and this back history trope would become hackneyed if it hasn't already.

Pointing out that the Sabor was a great antagonist while you say Clayton was too simple just screams hypocrisy. The Sabor's a simple animal just following instinct! Though when it comes to Disney, their animals do sometimes seem to be either evil or good. For instance, if you think Monstro was not intended to be more evil than your average whale, watch the movie again, watch that green-eyed whale again.
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DisneyFan09
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Post by DisneyFan09 »

A shallow, egotistical jerk isn't a good enough antagonist to the Beast? What about a hunter, the natural enemy of a beast, or a cold-blooded jealous (attempted) murderer, of which he also is because the Beast is really a person, and which past Disney villains were. Or how about how Gaston seems like he may be what the Beast was when he was younger, that he had to change from, how's that for being his match?
Gaston wasn't menacing enough. He wasn't threathning enough; Just shallow, egocentric and a sexist jerk. At least Gaston could be more sinister, have a more evil and greater presence and aura.
Who the heck decided "how a villain should be"? Can't there be many, many different types?
True, but remember that a person's view on a villain is subjective. A villain/antagonist is, from a superficial, supposed to be a believable threath to the antagonist(s). Sure, there can be different types of villains as long as their believable and good villains. Malificent, Frollo, Hades and Facilier are some examples. They're four different villains, but quite good.
They have to have debt or a background? What? I don't need to know every villain's past, that is unnecessary, and frankly if they decide every villain is only a villain because of his past that completely negates that some people do choose to do evil things, and this back history trope would become hackneyed if it hasn't already.
True, you do have a point. But the past of a character does however gives a understanding on the character. Just look at Meg from "Hercules" or Ratcliffe from "Pocahontas".
Pointing out that the Sabor was a great antagonist while you say Clayton was too simple just screams hypocrisy. The Sabor's a simple animal just following instinct! Though when it comes to Disney, their animals do sometimes seem to be either evil or good. For instance, if you think Monstro was not intended to be more evil than your average whale, watch the movie again, watch that green-eyed whale again.
You should read my post again!! I never claimed that Clayton is too simple, but I stated that several has claimed him as simple. Stop calling me something that I'm not!
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