Changing Black and White Films

[drfsupercenter]

1988? My VHS is that old?!

But the sepia is the correct version, right?

[Elladorine]

1988? My VHS is that old?!

But the sepia is the correct version, right?

I guess it is, lol.

Anyway, sepia is the correct version.

[Darby]

Although purists will probably burn me in effigy for saying this and, in truth, I would have preferred the original black-and-white versions, the colorized Zorro honestly does not look that bad.

Ladies and gentlemen, start your fires! LOL!

Darby

[goofystitch]

I agree that the colorization of Zorro doesn't look terrible. My main problem with the colorized version is that the mood changes so drastically. Because the show was filmed in black and white, it was much darker, so all of the daytime action scenes seemed more intense. On the colorized version, the sky is bright blue and in my opinion, the mood of those scenes isn't as dark.

I would rather have a colorized version of Zorro than no version at all, but it would have been nice to have to original broadcast versions.

[Darby]

I agree that the colorization of Zorro doesn't look terrible. My main problem with the colorized version is that the mood changes so drastically. Because the show was filmed in black and white, it was much darker, so all of the daytime action scenes seemed more intense. On the colorized version, the sky is bright blue and in my opinion, the mood of those scenes isn't as dark.

I would rather have a colorized version of Zorro than no version at all, but it would have been nice to have to original broadcast versions.

goofystich:

I concur wholeheartedly with you on both points! The colorized version is definitely not the same experience as seeing it in b&w, but I am glad to have at least the colorized Seasons 1 and 2 rather than nothing at all. Here's to hoping the proposed Zorro WDT doesn't disappoint.....

Darby

[nilyvn]

Hi,
Great article to read. It has brought a revolution in the cinema. I've seen so many black and white movies it's a wonder I don't dream in black and white, and yet, with all this modern technology that includes color saturation and high definition, there's something magical about old movies for me. Do yourself a favor some evening and watch an old, classic black and white film with great stars like Cary Grant, Lucille Ball, John Garfield, Barbara Stanwyk, Errol Flynn, or Paulette Goddard on Turner Classic Movies. Who knows, you might just become as big a fan as me.

[Disney Duster]

Why isn't this in Off-Topic? It's about colorization in general, is it not?

So...can they colorize absolutely anything?

Are they very good at being accurate to what the original colors were?

Could they colorize, accurately, the original TV debut of Rogers and Hammerstein's Cinderella with Julie Andrews?

[KubrickFan]

Why isn't this in Off-Topic? It's about colorization in general, is it not?

So...can they colorize absolutely anything?

Are they very good at being accurate to what the original colors were?

Could they colorize, accurately, the original TV debut of Rogers and Hammerstein's Cinderella with Julie Andrews?

There's no reason to. Many things that were shot in black and white were shot with black and white in mind. If colors are chosen to look good in black and white, that doesn't mean they look good when they're colorized.

[UmbrellaFish]

Why isn't this in Off-Topic? It's about colorization in general, is it not?

So...can they colorize absolutely anything?

Are they very good at being accurate to what the original colors were?

Could they colorize, accurately, the original TV debut of Rogers and Hammerstein's Cinderella with Julie Andrews?

There's no reason to. Many things that were shot in black and white were shot with black and white in mind. If colors are chosen to look good in black and white, that doesn't mean they look good when they're colorized.

Normally, I would agree, but R&H's Cinderella (with Julie Andrews) was meant to be seen in color.

See, what happened was, this television broadcast was never recorded properly, and the only way we have it is through a kinescope which was filming a TV playing Cinderella. However, the kinescope was only recorded in B&W, not color.

I wouldn't mind seeing Cinderella colorized, as either way you go, no presentation (B&W, Colorized) is what the broadcast was supposed to look like, and if done skillfully, a colorized version would perhaps be a more faithful representation.

[Escapay]

Wow, I forgot about this excellent article. Thanks for the re-read, disneyfella!

See, what happened was, this television broadcast was never recorded properly, and the only way we have it is through a kinescope which was filming a TV playing Cinderella. However, the kinescope was only recorded in B&W, not color.

If the B&W kinescope recording has any chroma dots from the television during broadcast, it may be viable for Colour Recovery, which has been used with success on several British television shows ("Dad's Army", "Are You Being Served?", and "Doctor Who"). But if there are no chroma dots present, then the only way to get a color version is to either:

1. Use a time machine to go back to 1957 and watch it on a color television set.

2. Give a set of 64-count Crayola crayons to Ted Turner and tell him to go wild.

I'd prefer the chroma dots to be there, but if not, then 1957, here I come!

Now, where did I park my time machine?

albert

[UmbrellaFish]

If the B&W kinescope recording has any chroma dots from the television during broadcast, it may be viable for Colour Recovery, which has been used with success on several British television shows ("Dad's Army", "Are You Being Served?", and "Doctor Who").

Wow, that's really, really interesting. I've never heard of that process before. I think someone should really look into whether this is possible or not for Cinderella because it would be brilliant.

Thanks for the info, Scaps!

[Escapay]

If the B&W kinescope recording has any chroma dots from the television during broadcast, it may be viable for Colour Recovery, which has been used with success on several British television shows ("Dad's Army", "Are You Being Served?", and "Doctor Who").

Wow, that's really, really interesting. I've never heard of that process before. I think someone should really look into whether this is possible or not for Cinderella because it would be brilliant.

Thanks for the info, Scaps!

You're welcome!

I don't think any US studios have looked into Colour Recovery yet (it originated in the UK), but given how better-archived most of our television series are, it doesn't seem to be that big a priority to them. There are still some programs and/or specials that would benefit from it as they are only in B&W despite originally being in color. For example, most of the episodes of "All My Children" are intact, but a lot of the early ones (mainly from the 1970-1975 period when it was owned by Agnes Nixon's company, Creative Horizons, and not ABC) are only available as B&W kinescopes, so hopefully chroma dots exist. But given how low soaps are on the television heirarchy, along with the unlikelyhood of ever having those old episodes broadcast again, we'll likely never see Colour Recovery on such gems.

albert

[Disney Duster]

Yes, they should do that for Cinderella. Can we write to someone to make this happen?

So...Ted Turner did not try to get the colors accurate? He just colored the picture however he wanted?

I thought all colorizations were meant to try and be as accurate to the original colors as possible!

Also, why do they sometimes have great colored costumes, but choose black in white? Like Roman Holiday. Did you know the outfit that Audrey Hepburn wore in that film was inspiration for Belle's dress? Anyway, it was in fact a beautiful gold dress...but it was a beautiful gold that no one saw because the darned thing was in black and white!

[Escapay]

So...Ted Turner did not try to get the colors accurate? He just colored the picture however he wanted?

It was a joke in reference to Orson Welles' comment regarding colorization: "Don't let Ted Turner deface my movie with his crayons."

For the most part, colorizations are done with conjunction with the original filmmakers when possible (e.g. the colorized movies of Ray Harryhausen), or if the filmmakers aren't around, color photos and production documents of the time (e.g. the Shirley Temple movies, "Lucy Goes to Scotland" from "I Love Lucy"). Sometimes, they have a bit of fun with the colorization (Reefer Madness has different colored smoke for the different characters), but they generally try to make it look natural.

Also, why do they sometimes have great colored costumes, but choose black in white?

Up until Eastmancolor (and various other color film companies) came about in 1950, Technicolor was more or less the only major company the studios could use, and their three-strip process was expensive. Thus why it was used on movies that would benefit from a color presentation. Even with the other color film companies coming out, some filmmakers opted to shoot in black and white artistically or because studio budget only allowed them to shoot in black and white. Columbia Pictures didn't shoot a color film until 1943 (The Desperadoes), despite other studios having done color films in the 1920s and 1930s.

On the flipside, Disney had exclusive rights to Technicolor beginning in 1932, and aside from a few exceptions (live-action portions of The Reluctant Dragon, The Shaggy Dog, The Absent-Minded Professor, etc.) all the studio's output were in color. They even filmed "Disneyland" episodes in color in anticipation of future reruns. Color television wasn't common in 1954, and Disney moved to NBC in 1961 because NBC was becoming an all-color broadcast network thanks to parent GE making color television sets.

But back to Roman Holiday. It was filmed entirely on location in Italy (maybe that ate up a lot of budget already), and aside from the WWII documentary Memphis Belle (1944), director William Wyler didn't make a color film until Friendly Persuasion (1956), so it may have been his own artistic choice. One can only imagine what films like Jezebel, Wuthering Heights, or The Best Years of Our Lives would have looked like had he used Technicolor on it.

Plus, the cinematography of black and white changes how colors look when lit. For example, in "I Love Lucy", her signature polka-dot dress looks black and white (obviously) on the series. But in actuality, it was blue (it looked a better "black" than black did), and the white dots were a pale blue, as that "translated" as white when lit for filming. Regarding Hepburn's gold dress, when lit for filming, the gold gave off a better sheer on film (at least that's what it looks like to me), so even though viewers don't know it's a gold color, they can see that it's a more impressive-looking type of fabric fit for a princess.




albert