Representation of women in Disney films......please help!

[BelleGirl]

The only real thing missing (as far as femininity is concerned) from Disney films is that almost none of the [human] girls have biological and/or benevolent mothers. The few characters who do are animals.

Only Mulan, Wendy, and Aurora have a biological mother as far as I can see. But they hardly play any role at all in the various movies.

That's what I would like to see in Disney movie: a close mother-daughter relationship. There were plenty of father-daughter relationships in the nineties, and at least two mother-son relationships fairly recently (Tarzan, Treasure Planet).

[Disney's Divinity]

Only Mulan, Wendy, and Aurora have a biological mother as far as I can see. But they hardly play any role at all in the various movies.

Yeah, I nearly forgot that Wendy captivates the Lost Boys with the idea of a mother. Which, at least, is an honorable representation.

That's what I would like to see in Disney movie: a close mother-daughter relationship. There were plenty of father-daughter relationships in the nineties, and at least two mother-son relationships fairly recently (Tarzan, Treasure Planet).

I agree with you. Maybe it was just me, but while I was in high school (I can't believe I can say that now) it seemed that whenever a girl was badtalking her parents it was usually her mother. I, personally, would like a film that shows how important, powerful and clever a mother can be to her daughter in the same way that Mufasa took care of Simba or that Triton sacrificed himself to save Ariel.

[Disney Duster]

Mulan, who is (I think) the first Disney heroine to actually defeat a villain.

I would say Cinderella, or Cinderella's fairy godmother's magic, defeated the villain, if you think of how Lady Tremaine broke the slipper and the two men in the home were helpless until Cinderella brought out her shoe and proved she was the one at the ball, but the slipper was given to her by her fairy godmother. Actually, fate kind of did it because Cinderella was always losing her shoe. I don't know. You think on it.

Also, most Disney women seem to dress the same. Why do nearly all the heroines dress in light blue, & most of the villains dress in blacks/purples. Of course there are exceptions, Esmeralda wears purple, this is usually worn by the villains, does this mean that she is being represented as being less than good-she does dance around poles!

Well, did you know that in the past, when they started using colors for gender, light blue was considered a girls' color because it was calm and serene, and pink was a boys' color because it was loud and bright? Apparently it changed after world War II, but since that war ended in 1945, why were girls in Disney movies after that still shown in blue?

Here's more on the pink and blue: Boy=Pink, Girl=Blue?

Anyway, purple is a royal color, and I'd say a powerful color.

You also need to take into account that Cinderella and Aurora were more rescued by their fairy godmothers than their princes. Similarly, the Blue Fairy spends the entirety of Pinocchio protecting the puppet and caring for Geppetto.

Exactly! I've noticed that fairies and magical women Disney films are very powerful. The evil queen would have crushed the dwarfs were it not for nature taking care of her, Pinocchio's blue fairy gave him his life and happy ending, Cinderella's fairy godmother creates Cinderella's happy ending, so do the three good fairies for Aurora, and they also do the rescuing and heavily help defeat the villain.

Notice that out of those are three old women, like old women are the really powerful ones! The queen as an old woman gets what she wants and would have killed the dwarfs if nature didn't kill her and a prince broke her spell, the old fairy godmother's spell ends by midnight (which could be part of her "plan" to free Cinderella but usually Disney just likes fate to work things out) but the slipper endures and ensures Cinderella's slavation, and Aurora's three old fairies do almost everything in the movie, they just need a prince's romantic love to defeat the loveless fairy and break the spell.

And I LOVE your new avatar/signature combo! At first I was put-off by the very "gay" looking colors of Cinderella's restoration, but God that's beautiful. And I'm gay myself so of course I love those purples an pinks! Oh, and I love the composition and images you chose, too. How genius to shove that slipper in the stepmother's shocked face!

[BelleGirl]

Only Mulan, Wendy, and Aurora have a biological mother as far as I can see. But they hardly play any role at all in the various movies.

Yeah, I nearly forgot that Wendy captivates the Lost Boys with the idea of a mother. Which, at least, is an honorable representation.

Well, I just meant to say that Wendy did have a mum and dad.

[Ariel'sprince]

Mulan, who is (I think) the first Disney heroine to actually defeat a villain.

I would say Cinderella, or Cinderella's fairy godmother's magic, defeated the villain, if you think of how Lady Tremaine broke the slipper and the two men in the home were helpless until Cinderella brought out her shoe and proved she was the one at the ball, but the slipper was given to her by her fairy godmother. Actually, fate kind of did it because Cinderella was always losing her shoe. I don't know. You think on it.

Don't forget Ariel!,well,she killed a sidekick but still (she killed Floatsome and Jetsome).

[Prudence]

It is a sequel, but Wendy and Jane of Return to Neverland have a realistic relationship that is a loving relationship when all is said and done.

[Disney Duster]

Building upon what Lazrio said about Snow White getting the animals to help her clean the cottage when women back then were expected to do the job all by themselves, I wonder if Disney's princess films actually try to say women should get help cleaning and not be the only ones to do it.

Consider the fact that in her stepmother's palace, she was forced to work, and no one helps her, not even those white doves she talks to, and she's miserable. But then, at the cottage, she gets the animals to help her clean up and does so happily.

In Cinderella, the heroine is friends with the animals, and they help her get dressed and make her dress for the ball in return for all she did for them, but they never help her work, and she's unhappy until she gets a chance to syop working since her happy ending includes a home where she isn't forced to work and servants will do it for her.

In Sleeping Beauty, Aurora is unhappy as a peasant who we see dusting a window and holding a broom, and maybe that's not why she's unhappy but she's certainly not satisfied. The three fairies are disastrous when working by themselves, and it is only through powerful magic that does the work for them that they are happy or at least happy with the results.

If men were the ones getting help from animals and magic, I'm sure some feminist would criticize: "Oh sure, men will do the cooking, sewing, and cleaning, but not of their own accord/ability or not without lots of help!"

[purin]

And magic, I'm sure some feminist would criticize: "Oh sure, men will do the cooking, sewing, and cleaning, but not of their own accord/ability or not without lots of help!"

I'm not so sure about that. I wonder how a man would be helped by animals. Would he sing to them? Would it be done the same way that such scenes are done with princess types? What's his relationship to the animals? What would the perception of him be? I'm intrigued. Didn't Johnny Appleseed get help from his animal friends?


Aside from Cinderella, I can't at the moment remember seeing a classic princess really working. Sure, working's great when you have help, but what if Snow White did more than just use the broom (clever Snow White, getting them all to do the really exhausting stuff >D)? Well, we wouldn't have cute musical number with animal gags for one, and it would make her look rather pitiful, having to do all that by herself in a short amount of time. We'd feel exhausted looking at her. Now that I think about it, it would also make her look a lot more responsible and able.

I think there's a fantasy that women's work isn't really work. If men are stronger, why not make them do endless, often thankless work? Think about the glamorous pictures of housewives in the 50s effort to get women back in the home, with their appliances, makeup, fashionable and clean dresses and shoes. On the one hand, they're supposed to have the strength to care for a house, raise kids, sew, and cook, things that are vital to life and not easy or instinctual, but on the other hand they're too weak and simple minded to do "real" work and considered less needy of the same wage when they do (why the ink and paint department was female).

So, I'm wondering if, aside from being a chance to do a cartoony segment with animal gags and a cute song, the animal friends were a way of having a girl happily working without doing any real work.

Though, I agree that if you have a house to clean, get help and keep your spirits up. Whistle, even XD



On another subject, I really wished Giselle slashed at the dragon a little more in Enchanted. I wonder if she did in the part of that scene that got cut for being too scary.

[Lazario]

But these male sidekicks in general have no love interest, do they?

That's not what I meant when I was talking about male / female sidekicks. They may or may not have love interests. They did in Bambi, for instance. But, I'm saying that female characters who are sidekicks are usually not made to be attractive if they are human. If a female character in an animated Disney movie (I guess this documentary was only addressing the animated movies) is attractive, she is immediately made into a love interest of some male. Main character or sidekick potential of the male role isn't what I'm saying.

I still think this doc had a point.

I also think it's not so much Disney in particular that always has handsome people forming romantic couples, but Hollywood in general.

That's a very good point. But I can tell you exactly why the doc focused in on Disney. At least 2 reasons. 1 is that they are very family oriented, so children consume a lot of Disney products, thereby taking in a lot of their messages. And 2 is that they are a factory. So it can easily be said that they put out a lot of movies without thinking about the implications of the stories. For a lot of people it stings that ultimately the Disney world is so unreal and yet idolized. But that will never change the fact that we know they don't mean any harm. And it's somewhat far-fetched to say that Disney does harm directly. At their worst, they're just one more source where you find yourself walking away with more questions than answers.

[Disney Duster]

And magic, I'm sure some feminist would criticize: "Oh sure, men will do the cooking, sewing, and cleaning, but not of their own accord/ability or not without lots of help!"

I'm not so sure about that. I wonder how a man would be helped by animals. Would he sing to them? Would it be done the same way that such scenes are done with princess types? What's his relationship to the animals? What would the perception of him be? I'm intrigued. Didn't Johnny Appleseed get help from his animal friends?

Um, I said IF men did the work and got help from animals or magic. IF. It wouldn't happen in the way it happens to the princesses (well, unless they want to risk appearing feminine), I was just providing a "what if" to make a point.

I also know the animals were meant for entertainment and not to exhaust the princess, but if you think about what it says, it really does say a girl needs help cleaning up the house (and she does make them do the harder stuff!) They even help her make the dwarfs' pies, another job usually left only to women.

I hope you know women weren't only in the Ink and Paint department. Think of Mary Blair who greatly influenced the entire 50's films. I know some girls animated, and somewhere read about one who animated the dogs that fight Faline and Bambi. Apparently she had trouble with her timing, so perhaps if women weren't expected to be as good as the men it could have been because they weren't trained as well which would be blamed on the sexist trainers or could have come from most woman not being interested in animation, who knows? We typically think of famous male painters like Picasso and Da Vinci over...what female painters? But I leave you with this:

Yet barely 3 years later, in 1941, his studio full of unrest and at the brink of the strike that would tear apart the old illusion of happy cloudless days, none other than Walt Disney himself said these words in front of his assembled employees, at a kind of "state of the studio" speech:

..."The girl artists have the right to expect the same chances for advancement as men, and I honestly believe that they may eventually contribute something to this business that men never would or could. In the present group that are training for inbetweens[sic] there are definite prospects, and a good example is to mention the work of Ethel Kulsar and Sylvia Holland on the "Nutcracker Suite", and little Rhetta Scott, of whom you will hear more when you see "Bambi".

...if a woman can do the work as well, she is worth as much as a man"

Found at this this blog.

I can see your idea that the princesses are happily working without actually working, and agree that Giselle should have done a bit more to Narissa. That was one lame and far to obvious attempt to try and make the princess the hero.

[MrBananaBeak]

Hi,
I was just clearin out my favourites when I saw this page! And I thought it was reallyreally bad of me not to say a big thanks!!
I know it was aages ago now but your ideas really helped my research alot. I got my final A-Level results back the other day and I got a B in Media studies so thankyou v much!!
I really found all the ideas very interestin and really enjoying studying this as my focus. I really didnt expect that many thoughtful and knowledgeable responses, so I was really pleased. Should have probably told u this nearer the time but... yer... Thanks!
Ben

[Disney Duster]

I'm glad you got a B, I wish we could have given you something to help you get an A, but oh well...

Thanks for the thanks!

[TM2-Megatron]

Man, this question tends to be all over the IMDB boards every once in a while, as well. Professors are supposed to be fairly intelligent; they must be creative enough to come up with a new question every few decades, lol.