Dissapointing Nemo....

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indianajdp
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Re: Dissapointing Nemo....

Post by indianajdp »

herman_the_german wrote:
Pixar has serious writing problems ...
Well, I would agree that their overall depth can't hold a torch to what we've seen from Disney Studios...but "serious problems"? I think if their writing was truly that bad it would be reflected in their grosses. Movies like Nemo and Monster's Inc. succeed because folks want to see them again and again. And it takes more than just a pretty picture to accomplish that.
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Re: Dissapointing Nemo....

Post by Captain Hook »

herman_the_german wrote:Pixar fits the CUTE description, but they need to grow beyond that. That should be their next step.
Hmm... just wondering, but did you think it was "cute" when Corral and the eggs got eaten? Or how about the part when all the fish get caught in the net? At both parts, the little four year old girl next to me in the theater started sobbing. That isn't exactly CUTE. :x

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Pixar cute

Post by herman_the_german »

No need to get all huffy, I am describing their overall work (prior to Nemo), including their early shorts. I am not focusing on one specific scene in the new movie.

Yes, their oeuvre has so far been "cute", with a lack of depth in their writing (Nemo and Toy Story II excepted).
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Re: Pixar cute

Post by Captain Hook »

herman_the_german wrote:No need to get all huffy.
Sorry! :oops: That seems to be my nature to be huffy. Please forgive me! I really really liked Nemo and Pixar, but I do like a lot of other Disney movies better. And I guess there are quite a few parts that fit the "cute" description.
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Post by 2099net »

I wouldn't say Nemo has story problems. The story does have hidden depths (pun intended) and almost everything that happens, happens for a reason... it's used or referenced later in the film. In that respect it shows classical story structure and obeys the "show don't tell" rule.

I actually missed out on Dory being a subsitute child for Marlin, which is odd because it's so obvious and I got Gil as the subsitute father for Nemo.

But this new knowledge doesn't make me appriciate the film more.

I feel Pixar are stuck in a creative rut. Nemo did not innovate. Nemo did not stray from the tried and tested Pixar formula. All Nemo had over other Pixar films really was the underwater setting (and to be honest I prefered the imagination of the Monsterworld, even if it did look darker and duller), and Dory. As a result it was all rather underwhelming. I can understand a child would not share my concerns, but I've got to wonder what Cars will be like.

Based on the Pixar trend, I guess it will be a 2 car buddy pic, where they both have to trek across America together (down Route 66, the original title for the film?) having various adventures and growing together. They have to do this to save another car - perhaps from being crushed or something. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't hold out much hope of being wrong.

At least the Incredibles is totally Brad Bird's baby, and as such is Pixar's "Dark Horse". And Herman, I thought Monsters, Inc was Pixar's best story and script to date.
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Post by Luke »

"Cute" is really shortchanging Pixar's creative talents. Yes, their films have fit a mold of sorts, and in a lot of ways structurally, Finding Nemo is reminiscent of Toy Story 2. But all 5 of their films have delivered a non-stop mixture of charm, excitement, and characters you really care for. Compare this to something like Atlantis, or Treasure Planet, even, and I think you'll see exactly why Pixar's films have connected with audiences, while Disney keeps struggling to find what people want.
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Post by jebsdad »

I enjoyed Finding Nemo at the theaters. The film entertained me and made me care about the characters. There were several fun scenes to the movie that made me laugh. I loved the joke at the very end of the film after the credits - I laughed, and laughed, and laughed.

I much looked forward to owning the DVD.

However, after watching the DVD, Finding Nemo is mainly one of those "very enjoyable the first time only" films for me. The DVD viewing, while "OK", just didn't "do anything" for me. I'm not sure when, if ever, I'll watch this film on DVD.

I was also disappointed by the extras on the DVD - the "Making of Finding Nemo" and the "Tour of the PIXAR Studios" was very amateurish and a waste of my time to watch.

But at least I did much enjoy the film at the theater.

I have loved the other PIXAR films - both at the theater and after multiple viewings on video and DVD. I can't really explain why the Finding Nemo DVD leaves me disinterested. I do admire the story, and animation, and the technical improvements...but...I just don't care anymore.
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Post by Disneykid »

I completely disagree with the majority of the posts in this thread. Finding Nemo is one of the most brilliant films I've ever seen-Pixar or otherwise. True, Monsters, Inc. provides the strongest story, but Nemo excels in everything else. What I love about Nemo is how mature it feels. The witty dialogue feels grown up and not padded down for children, yet simple enough for children to follow. Nemo also has the best cinematography of all the Pixar films. With its flashbacks, rotating shots, and other things, Nemo feels like a live action film shot in CGI. Dory is, of course, the highlight of the film, but there are many other colorful and interesting characters besides her, even if she does shine above them. Although it's true that Pixar is doing the buddy picture a lot, I don't think their "formula" (if you must call it that) isn't as much about a buddy picture as it is "getting there is half the fun". All their films (minus perhaps Bug's Life) have been about getting to your destination can be just as interesting/fun as the actual destination. Toy Story 2 wasn't a buddy picture like the original was, and neither was Bug's Life (as stated earlier). If Finding Nemo has one fault, to me its that its sentimental scenes could've been re-worded to not come across as (very mild) sap. Though, this could also be Albert Brooks' fault since he puts a lot of crying/touching emphasis into his sentimental lines. The only sentimental scene that I thought was perfect was Dory's "When I look at you, I'm home" scene which I thought was brilliant. Everything else (Gill's apology to Nemo for the filter stunt, Marlin's depression inside the whale) felt slightly forced. Still, I feel Nemo is the best film so far of 2003 as well as the best Pixar film, yet. Those are my 2 cents (well, due to the length of this post, let's say 2 bucks).
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Post by herman_the_german »

2099net wrote:...And Herman, I thought Monsters, Inc was Pixar's best story and script to date.
That is fine, personally I think Toy Story II is a masterpiece, but to misquote Sturgeon "90% of everything is crud": we cannot expect a studio (or anybody else for that matter) to come up with winners all the time, which was the gist of my response. Why should we expect 100% gold from anybody? Being disappointed because of high expectations 100% of the time is unfair.
Even if only 1 movie in 5 is good that is a good deal (for us viewers).
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Post by 2099net »

It's cool Herman. Everyone is different and that's what makes life fun.

Personally, I prefer TS1 much more than TS2. Toy Story 1 is basically an analogy to a family when a new baby is born. Woody was previously the centre of attention, and is therefore jealous when the new arrival Buzz enters the "family" stealing the attention away from himself. It's an ideal little parable for young children who may find themselves in identical situations while at the same time it is clever and sharp enough to appeal to the older viewers.

Toy Story 2 doesn't have a central concept to latch onto. While the overall moral or message is strong enough it just doesn't have the immediate connection to 'real life' that Toy Story 1 has. I also could of done without the Zurg subplot – I feel it dragged the movie down.

Monsters, Inc. again has no immediate 'real world' connection, but I suppose it's message is not to fear the unknown and that happiness is a stronger emotion than fear. But I prefer Monsters, Inc. from other films because I felt everything gelled in this film. Plus it was the most fun film Pixar have done.

There's three problems with Nemo, but I don't consider the story to be one of them. The first problem is unavoidable given the media these days: There was just no way that I (living in the UK) could ever see the film without my expectations being raised unfeasibly high. Yet I make concerted efforts to ignore most hype (I wonder how other more impressionable people my feel upon seeing it). In short the hype killed the movie for me. I'll hold my hand up right now and say that. It's wasn't the film, it was the hype. Which really isn't fair on Pixar. But there you go.

The second is I didn't feel that the characters (apart from Dory) were strong enough. I didn't like Marlin (I didn't dislike him, but I didn't like him). I didn't like Nemo himself. I didn't like the gang in the Aquarium. All I liked were Dory and Nigel.

The third point is borderline story, but mainly it's just my personal preference so it would probably be unkind to label it as a "story problem". It's just that there was no strong villain in the film. I'm a firm believer in the stronger the villain, the stronger the hero. "Always judge a man by the strength of his enemies" as Dr. Watson once said about his companion Sherlock Holmes. Just look at Flick when he stands up to Hopper to save Dot in A Bug's life (and bonus points to Pixar for showing Flick looking actually hurt after his beating).

So to sum up, Finding Nemo was disappointing because it could never live upto the expectations attributed to it since it's American opening, it had weak characters and no villain.

And if anyone thinks I'm being anal with this reply. Yes I am! I make no bones about it. But when the film has seemingly done so well (17 million copies sold in 5 days!), and if far from Pixar's best, a little anal analysis is inevitable. Normally I would just shrug it off – "A good film from Pixar, but not one of their best" – type thing.
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TOY STORY II

Post by herman_the_german »

My take on TSII is that the obvious central theme is the built-in obsolescence of children's toys, but the main things are the difficult, even painful, questions on aging, mortality, the instability of relationships, the impermanence of love, and the like. ("Do you really think Andy is going to take you to college? Or on his honeymoon?"). The Toys become surrogates for Parents dealing with their kids growing up and leaving the nest (also a theme on Nemo), I don't know if you have kids, but I'm sure the animators and creators of the film are young parents (as I am), and addressing these questions is part of growing up as a parent. Thus the movie is really a very personal and felt story.
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Post by Rebel »

Although I thought Toy Story 2 was an excellent film in its own right, I much prefer the original Toy Story. There is just so much emotion in it. The scene where Buzz leaps from the top of the stairs in attempt to fly out the window...it has to be one of the most heart wrenching moments from any film that I have ever seen. They totally captured Buzz's loss of innocence in 3D.

Between Nemo and TLK, it is probably a toss up for me. Both have areas where they excel and where they fail. I definitely enjoy them both very much, but I would rank Toy Story, Toy Story 2, and A Bug's Life all higher.
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