Disney/Ghibli discussion

[magicalwands]

But, seriously, I don't think it's fair to dismiss Studio Ghibli as 'anime.' None of their films seem to have the tropes anime are prone to. It's connected to the anime genre, but it's not exactly 'anime' itself. It also has a much higher degree of animation (anime uses cheap shortcuts). The human designs aren't to my taste, but they are well-animated.

Thank you! What I assume from anime is: big boobs, big weapons, and big, detailed eyes. Miyazaki does not resort to most of these. He uses big weapons, but not to make it look "cool." (weapons were destruction in Princess Mononoke) I can't recall any characters with big breasts, and he has more range with his eye use. Also, his character head shapes are less sharp than the usual anime. They're more rounded in Miyazaki films. So please, don't call Miyazaki films anime. Oh, and his storytelling is just unbelievably better than everyone over there AND over here in America.

[Heil Donald Duck]

Sorry, but anime is in my books just everything animated that comes form Japan weather or not if its fits certain stereotypes, sees in Japnies Drawnings. And the Walt Disney Classics are just feature length cartoons.

[Little Red Henski]

Studio Ghibli films are anime.

Anime in my opinion are cartoons made in Japan that are aimed at a Japanese audience. So Studio Ghibli is anime.

Thunder Cats & the original Transformer series wouldn't be anime even though they were animated in Japan, because they were aimed at gaijin audience.

It's interesting that touchstone is handling it. Maybe Disney will release Only Yesterday & Ocean Waves via there touchstone label.

[jpanimation]

Actually, anime is an animation style started in Japan. Not all Japanese animated productions follow this style, hence, they aren't all anime. Look it up in any dictionary, it will confirm what I'm saying, Anime is an animation style. Depending on what dictionary you read, your description of what the anime style is will vary, but from what I've read, Ghibli film really don't meet any of the criteria. To just use 'anime' to describe all Japanese animated production would be a misuse of the word.

Nickelodeon's Avatar and Adult Swim's The Boondocks utilize the anime style and yet they're not from Japan. Cartoon Network did an adaption of DC Comics's Teen Titans with the anime style. The term 'anime' describes the style of a production, not it's origin.

[pap64]

I was under the impression that The Boondocks and Avatar were animated overseas, hence why they take so long to produce.

[Little Red Henski]

I consider shows like Avatar and Teen Titans as wannabe anime. Anime is more than just an art style. Crayon Shin Chan, Chibi Maruko chan, and Sazae san are all very popular Japanese animated cartoons that don't look like stereotypical anime. Just because some American draws a character with big eyes doesn't make his show anime.

I stand by my definition.

[jpanimation]

^^Exactly, they're both American productions made with the anime style, which is a style that originated in Japan but not exclusive to it. The animation for Avatar is produced at Nickelodeon Animation Studios in California while the animation was done by DR Movie (who sometimes works with Ghibli) and JM Animation both in Korea and The Boondocks is produced at Sony Pictures in California with the animation currently being done by Madhouse in Japan (the first season was done by someone else but show creator Aaron McGruder wanted the show to have a more authentic anime style).

Hell, a lot of Japanese animated shows are outsourced to Korean animation studios. If anime was any animated production made in Japan, then what would count? Would American productions animated in Japan count as anime? Would Japanese productions animated in Korea count as anime? Would only Japanese productions animated in Japan count as anime? As I said before: The term 'anime' describes the style of a production, not it's origin.

[Little Red Henski]

If the cartoon that was animated in Korea was done for a Japanese company and aimed at a Japanese audience. than yes it would be anime.

[jpanimation]

By "aimed at the Japanese audience" you mean done in the anime style. Once again, it's defined by it's look and feel, not it's origin. The difference between Lilo and Stitch The Series and Stitch! is not where they're animated (both in Asia) but the style they're produced in. One is specifically made in the anime style.

[Little Red Henski]

Anime is not a style. Anime is a cartoon that is made for the Japanese domestic market.

Sazae San


Chibi Mauko Chan


Crayon Shin Chan

[Neal]

Agreed. Anime is not a style. It is as much a style as "film," "western animation," or comedy. All those terms are too vaguely broad.

[jpanimation]

Anime is a cartoon that is made for the Japanese domestic market.

Then how is Ghibli considered anime? They're just well told stories, not specifically aimed at any market. Maybe an age demographic but not a market.

Kiki's Delivery Service has witchcraft, is a coming of age story, and takes place in Europe, none of which exclusively appeals to the Japanese audience. So I'm not sure how it can be considered 'anime' under your definition.

Anime is a style. Not only in looks but also in feel (that just happens to appeal to the Japanese domestic market). Just like a movie can have a style of humor, it is not only visual. Once again, it has nothing to do with where it's made. If it looks like anime and feels like anime, then it's anime, regardless of whether it was made in Japan or not.

[ajmrowland]

I consider shows like Avatar and Teen Titans as wannabe anime. Anime is more than just an art style. Crayon Shin Chan, Chibi Maruko chan, and Sazae san are all very popular Japanese animated cartoons that don't look like stereotypical anime. Just because some American draws a character with big eyes doesn't make his show anime.

I stand by my definition.

Avatar actually handled it pretty well. It deifinitely carries the style to an extent, some American abound. Also, tell that to Barne & Noble where they sit ridiculously overpriced in the anime section.

Teen Titans, I'm not even sure it tries to be anime.

[littlefuzzy]

Anime is a cartoon that is made for the Japanese domestic market.

Then how is Ghibli considered anime? They're just well told stories, not specifically aimed at any market. Maybe an age demographic but not a market.

Kiki's Delivery Service has witchcraft, is a coming of age story, and takes place in Europe, none of which exclusively appeals to the Japanese audience. So I'm not sure how it can be considered 'anime' under your definition.

How is it NOT considered anime? It was made primarily for the Japanese audience, just because it is set in Europe doesn't preclude that - see the movie EuroTrip which was made primarily for the U.S/North American audience (particularly teenage/college-age males.) The fact that Kiki's is relatively popular in other countries doesn't change that it was made for Japanese Audiences. Anyway, anime is hardly known of among the average American viewer.

I have yet to see any animation from Japan NOT be called anime. Just because it is made with a larger budget and shown in theaters doesn't stop it from being anime. There aren't specific styles that make it anime or non-anime - Hmm, Big eyes? check! Colored hair? check! Wacky families? Check! Long, drawn-out fight scenes? Check! Magical girls? Check! Giant robots? Check!

There can be an anime without any of that (like the Studio Ghibli films).

FYI, The word anime in Japanese basically means animation, and ALL animated works (including Disney) are called anime. However, I think it's pretentious for anime fans to try to do that when they are speaking in English.

Also, there is a difference between Anime and Anime-Style (such as the Teen Titans.) I would say anime is anything intended primarily for the Japanese market, with exports an afterthought. If it is directed by a Japanese, with Japanese being the primary language, then it is anime even if it is farmed out to Korean animation studios. Actually, there could even be an argument for some Korean or Chinese animated shows being called anime, they are quite a bit closer to the Japanese stuff than American shows like Teen Titans. Their graphic novels (manhwa and manhua) are obviously based on the manga tradition, as well.

The problem with American "Anime-Style" shows is that it is just a surface similarity... *In a studio boardroom* "Hmm, this 'anime' seems popular with the kids, it's all big eyes and small mouths. We'll make a show that looks like that, and the kids will like it!"

[jpanimation]

Well, I'm done arguing. I've definitely thrown this thread way off topic

I stand by my guns, anime is a style developed in Japan. The confusing seem to lie on the fact that everyone seems to think the word 'style' refers strictly to visual. Once again, look it up. That would be misusing the word 'style.' I'm going by dictionary definitions.

Ghibli is not anime. They're Japanese animated productions. You say Kiki's Delivery Service was made primarily for the Japanese audience, how? What in that movie is aimed at that specific audience? I really couldn't find anything. Not the characters, not the setting, not the story, not the designs, not the humor and not even the storytelling techniques. It's a pretty damn universal movie.

That's the last I'll argue about that. My opinion's out there, other's opinions are out there. Heck, I don't know why I've even argued this long about it. Even taking four years of Japanese, I hate the anime style but love Ghibli's style. They avoid seizure inducing flashes and swirly poop.

I apologize for all this annoying arguing I've done.

[Heil Donald Duck]

I think we need to agree on 2 things

1. There is Anime ie every thing that is made in Japan

2. Then the Anime-Style Big eyes etc mantra.

[Disney's Divinity]

Things we won't agree on:

1. All anime are the same.

2. If I've seen one bad anime (regardless of whether its a TV show or a film, or whether it's aimed at children or adults), then I can dismiss them all as equally bad.

Really, it's just ignorant. And I wouldn't hesitate to say racist, since the crappy American shows haven't made you swear off all things American.

[Escapay]

When I go to the store to buy Italian bread, I know it's not actually bread from Italy, but just bread that was made with an Italian recipe, and baked in an Italian way. Genuine Italian bread comes from Italy. Even within Italy there surely are different recipes for bread and different methods for baking it. And there can even be non-Italian bread recipes that are made in Italy, but that doesn't make it Italian bread. It could be Fnarg* Bread, simply baked in an Italian kitchen.

"Anime" to me is Japanese animation, made primarily in Japan, with Japanese animators/filmmakers. Its universal appeal is like Italian bread. People like it because it's a similar experience with whatever bread they normally eat, but still its own unique recipe of bread.

But you can't have real Italian bread in America. You'll have to import it (and I wonder if it'll last in transit before going stale). Likewise, you can't make "real" anime in America, you can only import real anime. American-made "anime" is as Japanese as a Chinese fortune cookie. Just like American-made Italian bread is as Italian as a German Bundt Cake.

Then again, what does location matter anyway? Bread is bread and animation is animation no matter where it's made.

albert, who wants some Italian bread now...

*"Fnarg" courtesy of Steven Moffat

[yamiiguy]

In my opinion Anime is not a style. Manga is a style or has a style. Anime is often just an adaptation of a manga series.

[blackcauldron85]

Another World: Studio Ghibli’s CG video game
http://www.cartoonbrew.com/anime/anothe ... -game.html