The Little Mermaid on Broadway

[Nandor]

Besides, who says Merfolk even know about such a thing as a God? It's a human religion and they don't have much contact with humans...

[Ariel'sprince]

Besides, who says Merfolk even know about such a thing as a God? It's a human religion and they don't have much contact with humans...

that's why i"m upset when the bring all of those pictures of ariel celebarte christmas,she's a mermaid for god sake! (and it's even worse when jasmine,pocahontas and mulan celebrate christmas too).

[UncleEd]

Well, I suppose Ariel could have found a Bible in one of those shipwrecks but she probably couldn't have read it anyway. But that was exactly my point, why would a mermaid say "Oh my God"/ It's a human expression.



I'd assume the merfolk would have some form of religion. I never really thought about that though.



Yeah, I never got that having them celebrate CHristmas when they couldn't know about it or wouldn't. Pocahontas doesn't bug me as much since in the comics she learned about it from John Smith. The others I don't get. (excluding the european princesses.) I highly doubt any of them ever talk about the Nativity story though, except Belle who sings about it, but I find that to be strange too. It's Disney being PC again.

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

Besides, who says Merfolk even know about such a thing as a God? It's a human religion and they don't have much contact with humans...

that's why i"m upset when the bring all of those pictures of ariel celebarte christmas,she's a mermaid for god sake! (and it's even worse when jasmine,pocahontas and mulan celebrate christmas too).

Nandor, what do you mean "God is a human religion"? I think every creature could feel the need to honour and thank its creator. God doesn't only mean Christ. For some people is Allah, for others is Buddah. But for everyone it means the creator of the universe and everything that lives in it. I know that many people do not believe in God, but why should all Merpeople be atheists? They could believe in, let's say, Poseidon, the God of Sea or something similar. We also know nothing about the Merpeople's background story. For example how was the first Merman was born/created? Maybe they were humen too first but due to some mutation/magic spell/ DNA gone crazy, they ended up as sea creatures. So Ariel may not be a Christian, but she could be a religious person in my opinion, just in a "mermish" religion or sthing.
As for the Christmas thing.. I think it's really a blasphemy for the Christians to show Jasmine, Pocahontas and Mulan celebrate Christmas. Jasmine is a Muslim, Pocahontas believes in Indian Spirits and Mulan is a Buddhist for goodness sake!!! Christmas is about Jesus given birth, how could they celebrate Christmas?
It has also been said in this thread that Disney movies do not refer to any religion and that's why everyone is happy. I disagree. Doesn't anyone remember SnowWhite praying to God before she was going to sleep? And what about Esmeralda's prayer in a totally Christian cathedral, Notre Dame de Paris? Or the Gods in Hercules? The Priest in Little Mermaid and the monk in Robin Hood? Or the Sultan referring to Allah?

[SpringHeelJack]

Assuming a Triton/Neptune relation, it might be kosher for her to say "Oh my Gods". Whatevs. I'm for a fan of "gosh" myself, that was one part that really jumped out at me when I heard it.

[Ariel'sprince]

[quote="UncleEd"] in the comics she learned about it from John Smith.[\quote]
really? why he told her that? and anyway in the disney princess christmas dvd ariel found a book about christmas and the star of the christmas tree,and after she ask scuttle she understand that it's some kind of a party and not a holday (she call it's chrissymas).

[Ariel'sprince]

It has also been said in this thread that Disney movies do not refer to any religion and that's why everyone is happy. I disagree. Doesn't anyone remember SnowWhite praying to God before she was going to sleep? And what about Esmeralda's prayer in a totally Christian cathedral, Notre Dame de Paris? Or the Gods in Hercules? The Priest in Little Mermaid and the monk in Robin Hood? Or the Sultan referring to Allah?

i don't like it,why in a world of pixie dust,mermaids,fairy tales and witchs should be a religion? it's just stupit and sholdn't be in there.
and by the way-there was also a priest in cinderella III.

[Aladdin from Agrabah]

i don't like it,why in a world of pixie dust,mermaids,fairy tales and witchs should be a religion? it's just stupit and sholdn't be in there.
and by the way-there was also a priest in cinderella III.

Because Disney creators tried to cover with pixie dust things that just can't be of the fairy-tale kind, just like "The Hunchback of Notre Dame". Notre Dame de Paris is a -very depressing, much more than the Disney movie- novel by Victor Hugo and because of its story it just has to have referrences to religion. Except for this case anyway, many of the classical fairy-tales, in their original form, do contain religious refferences.
As for the priest in Cinderella III, I haven't seen the film yet so I couldn't know about him.

[UncleEd]

The real Pocahontas converted to Christianity and shared that faith with her people. Of course DIsney ddidn't do that in any of their extended Pocahontas tales. In their 1995 Christmas time daily strip comic they had a story about the Starving TIme and Christmas and John Smith just tells her about the holiday. Of course there is no reference to Christ.


One of the things I liked in LIlo & Stitch is that Lilo prays to God for an angel and it's actually a prayer that is answered! Lilo needs Stitch and Stitch needs Lilo and by the end of the film look at all the characters who have changed for the better as the result of Lilo's meeting Stitch.


As for "i don't like it,why in a world of pixie dust,mermaids,fairy tales and witchs should be a religion? it's just stupit and sholdn't be in there." Let me explain this as a creator of all-age fantasy fiction. When you create anything you tend to find that aspects of who you are and what you believe rub off into your creations. If you read "children's" literature you will find Frank Baum's characters believed in a higher being, even in a Pegan world like we see in Life & Adventures of Santa Claus, all of the gods answered to God. You have people like C.S, Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien who also wrote fiction that had their faiths poured into. Jim Henson's political and religious views were also all throughout his work as well. It's what happens when you are a creator.


Whenever I create anything my characters tend to reflect myself. Even the villains reflect my faith, beliefs, and morality. You can't escape it. I have found that when people get easily offended by this it is always because they have some inner feelings that they feel ashamed to have so they lash out because they think you're exposing what's in their own hearts and they don't like it.


The new Disney has touch on many religions in their recent films but they tend to focus exclusively on new age and naturalistic religions. We see this in nearly all of the films of the 1990's. Rarely do they touch on CHristianity but that can also be for fear of a Bible belt rebuke. Hunchback touched upon Catholicism but it was by no means in depth. You have more in depth exploration in Pocahontas, Lion King, Mulan, and Brother Bear. Personally I was bored with Brother Bear because it was so preachy. From what I understand Thomas Schumacher started this sort of thing because he wanted to shape the minds of a generation to the "right" way of thinking and he saw he could do that with the Disney animated feature. (ask people who worked with this guy about him and you will be shocked by the stories they tell and you see comments made about him on DVDs in a new light.)


I hope this was helpful.

[Nandor]

For some people is Allah, for others is Buddah.

That's exactly my point. Why would she call Him God, if she's never heard him being called that? No matter what other animals believe, the name God is something only humans use (okay, I could be wrong there. I haven't actually checked this with other animals...).

[Disney's Divinity]

It has also been said in this thread that Disney movies do not refer to any religion and that's why everyone is happy. I disagree. Doesn't anyone remember SnowWhite praying to God before she was going to sleep? And what about Esmeralda's prayer in a totally Christian cathedral, Notre Dame de Paris? Or the Gods in Hercules? The Priest in Little Mermaid and the monk in Robin Hood? Or the Sultan referring to Allah?

And then, of course, there are the symbolic references. The Little Mermaid is totally a reference to Christianity and/or the "Fall of Adam." I remember reading a while back an article about Christianity in Disney movies and they noted something that was very interesting. In the older fairy tales, the Christian influence was obvious, with Cinderella and Prince Charming coming from a church after their marriage and Snow White being carried off to a "castle in the sky." But, in the newer films, priests are never seen when the "main" couple is getting married. There was a priest present when Ursula hypnotized Eric, one was seen when Gaston attempted to seduce Belle, but none were around when Belle & the Beast and Ariel & Eric were given their Happily Ever After's.

Not that it's a big deal. I, personally, am glad they keep religion out of the spotlight. A Disney movie is hardly the place for kids to learn about religion.

[UncleEd]

Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tales always had Christian morals but I don't consider the Disney one to be in that vain because the story is so different.


Also, in the TV series it's mentioned that Neptune was Triton's grandfather.

[Disney's Divinity]

Hans Christian Anderson's fairy tales always had Christian morals but I don't consider the Disney one to be in that vain because the story is so different.

If that was directed to me (not quite sure ), I meant the movie when I was saying that it was a reference to Christianity. It's not outright in the way the original tale is, but that was written by Hans Christian Anderson.

Triton = God / Christ
Ariel = Humans / Eve
Ursula = Lucifer (of course)
Eric = Knowledge [of the world above]

Even Triton's palace alludes to the pearly gates associated with Heaven. Ariel was just caught in the battle of good vs. evil without even knowing it.

[UncleEd]

I think the pearly gates thing is a bit of a stretch.


I remember when the film came out there was a CHristian talk radio show that was actively boycotting Disney for "ruining" a Christian Fairy Tale. Now, I'm a practicing Christian (and I'm not afraid to say it) and I found their hysteria to be silly. One woman called in and said the Holy Spirit told her not to take her kids to see the movie when she had them in the carready to go.
Their biggest objection was the use of magic and that Ariel disobeys her father to get what she wants and she still gets her own way. I would disagree. Ariel TRIED to get what she wanted and look at the outcome. Her dreams only came true when her father stepped in and granted them.


Anyway, this radio show, which I don't think is on anymore, was a hoot around 1996 when the boycott was in full swing. I remember another woman calling in telling how her little girl heard the radio say that if you like Disney you'll go to Hell because God doesn't love you. And her girl ripped her Beauty and the Beast T Shirt off screaming and threw all her Disney dolls in the trash. The shirt read "Far off places, magic spells, a prince in disquise." Oh, and their whole case against Beauty was that because she falls in love with him and doesn't know he's a man it advocates beastiality. Oh, shut up! It's no wonder we don't get this show anymore. But it was fun to listen in sometimes.

[Disney's Divinity]

I think the pearly gates thing is a bit of a stretch.

Really?

That talk show sounds freaky. Then again, there'll always be extremists.

Anyway, I think the whole "religion" topic should end anyway. I hope I didn't scare anyone off.

[UncleEd]

I meant the whole Adam & Eve theory seemed quite a stretch. That’s trying to read way too much into it. There’s a difference between subtle meanings to things and forcing it to fit.


Why should anyone be scared away? We’re all adults talking here and by avoiding “controversial” subjects we give those subjects their power and fear to discuss. It’s why Song of the South is so feared by Disney. They would rather not talk about it than confront any issues there may be with the film. Why should we be the same? People these days seem to be too quick to offend and people used to talk about things. I liked things better back then.

[UmbrellaFish]

I meant the whole Adam & Eve theory seemed quite a stretch. That’s trying to read way too much into it. There’s a difference between subtle meanings to things and forcing it to fit.


Why should anyone be scared away? We’re all adults talking here and by avoiding “controversial” subjects we give those subjects their power and fear to discuss. It’s why Song of the South is so feared by Disney. They would rather not talk about it than confront any issues there may be with the film. Why should we be the same? People these days seem to be too quick to offend and people used to talk about things. I liked things better back then.

Don't bring up The Song of the South. I want it soooooooo badly. Anyway, it's true that people can look too much into things. It'd just a movie! It was meant to be enjoyed, even if something reminds you of something. Somethings do have deeper meanings (often, though, whoever heads the project reveals the meaning), but other times people look to deep into it, (For example, The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis seems to be inspired by the Bible, but Lewis himself said he was just trying to write a fantastic children's novel). So lighten up people, and enjoy the movies.

[Disney Duster]

Okay, well...

First off, it may be a sad fact to some, me included, but Christmas is celebrated all the time by people who don't even believe in God. It is considered universal and international (well, it is factually international). It has lost it's meaning as just being about the birth of Christ. And Disney, in becoming a corporation that needs to do business, has done what every other company does and put all their beloved characters into Christmas merchandise. But I don't think you guys should be so offended by non-Christians joining in the celebration.

I hope I didn't offend anyone by that, but think about it. I've only gotten this from television, so perhaps my view is skewed, but it looks like a lot of Children, especially Jewish children, might feel left out of the biggest celebration, the biggest holiday of the year, even bigger than New Year's, I believe. I remember some children who weren't Christian looking so sad when there parents didn't let them partake in Christmas parties at elementary school. Would it be blasphemous for someone who wasn't Christian to eat a candy cane or decorate a tree? I would hope not... As long as the princesses aren't setting up a Nativity scene, I don't think it's that bad for them to join in the Christmas celebrations, because decorating a tree and wrapping presents almost has nothing to do with Christ's birth. True, people have tried to connect the light and the gift-giving to parts of the Nativity story, but in actualality, many Christmas customs came from Pagan practices that celebrated Winter solstices and all that jazz.

If you guys really still felt the Christmas celebrating should be kept to Christians, well, perhaps Disney should comes up with "Holdiday" or "Winter" themed merchandise about snow flakes and sledding for the Princesses to be on. The European princesses can sing Christmas songs (Ariel included, because Eric most likely taught her about Christmas), and the rest can just sings "Jingle Bells" and all the songs that have to do with the season, but not the holidays.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say. If you guys really want to talk about Disney and religion, start a new thread, which will surely be the talk of the forum! But this thread is about The Little Mermaid On Broadway. Let's keep it that way! Seriously, start a new thread if you want to talk about Disney and religion more. I believe that is what Disney's Divinity meant by ending the religion topic, that it shouldn't be discussed here. End it here, and if you wish, start it again in a new thread.

[UncleEd]

All I was saying was we worry too much about offending people and we shouldn't.


As for Christmas being celebrated by everyone, I think it's a double standard when anyone can celebrate one group's holidays and if you were a non member of a group and wanted to celebrate Kwanza or Passover there would be people who would get mad. Why the double standard? Either we can celebrate everyone's holiday or we can't. And I know PLENTY of kids I went to school with who were THRILLED not to celebrate the school Halloween or Christmas Party just so they got the day off.


The pagan side of Christmas isn't as big as non Christians would have you believe (I write books using Christmas history so I know what I"m talking about from my research) That movement only started to justify why Christmas wasn't a Christian holiday. And you know the really interesting thing? Halloween is considered to be a Pagan holiday but it started as the Jewish holiday that remembered the day of the GReat Flood and every culture in the world has a Day of the Dead of some sort during this time of the year. The interesting thing is Christians condemn Halloween as Pagan and it's roots are in Judism, same as the roots of their faith.


I think Disney has been doing more of a Holiday/winter theme lately. I think that's safer because anyone can apply them to their holiday then. I remember seeing a Pooh and a Mickey Menorah in the Disney catalogue and that seemed just wrong.

[SpringHeelJack]

I remember seeing a Pooh and a Mickey Menorah in the Disney catalogue and that seemed just wrong.

Why does that seem "wrong"?