The new Princesses being excluded from the lineup

[JeanGreyForever]

I said before that in my opinion M&C tried to say that she is a princess regardless of marketing with Maui dismissing her afterwards, bit people disagreed with me. Either way that line is not representative of the character, who does fit into the Disney Princess archetype.

I think we all suspected that despite what Moana says, Disney will still try to shoehorn her into the lineup like they did with Merida. Their favorite strategy is to have the character diss being a princess in the movie to get attention and acclaim from the audience and then after a healthy distance, put her into the franchise so they can continue to milk her for what she's worth for the rest of perpetuity.

[Sotiris]

Moana has been added into the Disney Princess Comics publishing and merchandise line.


Source: http://diskingdom.com/2019/02/17/disney ... -previews/


Source: https://diskingdom.com/2019/02/09/disne ... ming-soon/

[JeanGreyForever]

There's a recurring trend where Pocahontas and Tiana get excluded even while Mulan and Merida (and now Moana) still get some attention. I think this definitely reinforces the fact that the two American princesses are the least popular ones. Wonder why that is lol.

[Disney Duster]

Why do you not want an American princess? And why is Pocahontas ok? Can you explain?

[JeanGreyForever]

Because America doesn't really have any princesses or royalty with the exception of certain women who married into European royalty like Grace Kelly or now Meghan Markle and even then, although they are American-bred women, they would be the princesses of their new country, not America. Tiana bothered me more because she was such a direct attempt to create a black princess and appeal to an American audience. Disney didn't trust making an actual African princess, when there are so many African folktales and cultures they could have adapted. On top of that, it's weird to have a princess in a modern setting along with the rest of the girls in the lineup. It takes away from the timeless, fairy tale quality imo. I've said to other users here that Tiana reminds me more of modern-day women like Nani, who I like as a character but wouldn't see as fitting for the DP lineup.

I suppose one can criticize Anastasia for this as well because the 1926 setting is shared with TPATF, but that's more true for the second half of the film with the modern, Parisian setting. The first half is still set in Russia and all the Imperial Russian elements are dated and carry over from the 1800s, not to mention the 300 year Romanov dynasty. There's a reason the Russians were considered outdated, especially their monarchy, in the 1900s. Even in the program for the Broadway musical, they talk about how the story is unique because it comes from a classical fairy tale setting to something that is entirely modern and liberated, which people in the audience noted as well. I prefer the more fairy tale elements of the film and I always wish we had a film based on classical Russian fairy tales.

Pocahontas doesn't bother me because she still comes from a different culture that technically wasn't American since America didn't exist back then. It would be the Powhatan culture. On top of this, her story takes place long ago so it really isn't contemporary and although her status as a princess is debatable, since there wasn't such a title in her culture, she was considered a princess by the English. Even before Disney, she's been labeled a princess ever since her story circulated around the New World and England. She's the closest that America has to a real life American princess, so I suppose she's a special exception.

[Disney Duster]

Oh. Well that was all very well explained and thought out! Hm. Well I guess I don't feel like the DP line is magical...I know it should be, but it's like this money maker that slaps girls who are only the same in being the heroines of good enough-selling movies together to sell stuff. I am glad we have the line because it gives us some merchandise I actually like like storybooks, God I love those storybooks, but other than that I just don't feel something that magical about the line. A little magical, but it's mostly dollar signs for me. I guess I don't mind, and actually like Tiana being in the line, because I like her character ok, I like America, and I like the idea of an American princess. Like America has it's own magical fairy tale. I don't know, I guess I really like America and magic and fairy tales and princesses and like seeing all of that together.

[JeanGreyForever]

Lol thanks. I guess the DP line is magical for me because mostly it consists of fairy tales and even the ones that aren't have fantastical elements like Mulan and Moana. You're right though that at the end of the day, the franchise is purely concerned with $$$. The WIR2 scene proved that. I love how the Disney wiki page for the franchise features all these "rules" on what dictates being a Disney Princess, when Disney literally will break any of them in a second if they feel the franchise will sell more. Characters like Giselle, Merida, and even Rapunzel are proof of that. Giselle would have been live-action and the first non-Disney animated classic film in the canon to be added if it hadn't been for the rights issue. Merida ended up taking that honor instead, and she also became the first non-singing princess without a romantic interest. Rapunzel already paved the way for CGI princesses, which was unheard of back then and I remember lots of people felt she couldn't join the lineup because of that. If Elsa and Anna had joined as originally planned, they would change the rules too because we have two new princesses from the same film. Which, I've heard Disney was almost willing to do with Charlotte and Tiana until they realized the implications if Charlotte proved to be more popular than Tiana, their first black princess.

By magical, I mainly meant the individual movies, rather than how they are viewed in the franchise, because frankly the franchise doesn't care about the movies and their integrity.

I just don't see the U.S. as a magical place, considering there is no fairy tale lore, let alone ancient dynasties and palaces. I know Europeans scoff at the idea of American history because they say that our country barely has a history, which is true compared to them. Even The Wizard of Oz was first written because L. Frank Baum felt that Europe had all these wonderful fairy tales but the U.S. didn't have any of their own so he wanted to create the first American fairy tale. In general though, I feel like the idea of fairy tales, princesses, magic, etc. is such an antithesis to the U.S. which is founded on dissolving monarchies, aristocracies and their salons, and cares more for rugged individualism and realism.

Then again, Walt Disney was able to take these European fairy tales and present them in an American manner so that does say something, because most of the world is only familiar with his versions now. I remember reading that even back then, Europeans complained about how Americanized their stories were becoming because of his movies.

[Disney Duster]

Oh, I didn't know all the behind the scenes info on those princesses who were going to be, and then did or didn't, get to be added to the line up. Lol Wikipedia's "rules" that yes, Disney breaks whenever they can sell something! I didn't know about Charlotte and Tiana. Yikes. I actually do like Charlotte more...she's just so hialrious lol. I get your view on America, but Baum's Oz is like him sharing how I feel, that America should get more magical, and Walt Disney helped that, and I feel Tiana can help with that, too!

[JeanGreyForever]

Lol, I actually prefer Charlotte too because she's so hilarious although I don't really think she'd make a good fit in the DP lineup. Some people feel Giselle is already enough of a parody to fit in, so Charlotte is 10x more that. I do think though that a lot of Disney fans preferred Charlotte because she spoke more to them, with her belief in dreams come true and wishing on stars whereas Tiana is sort of the antithesis, having grown up from such childish stuff and believing in practicality and hard work. Tiana might appeal more to the general public but Disney lovers would recognize themselves in Charlotte.

Oh, I understand your view that you wish America would be more magical and thus why you agree with Baum and his Oz books to make it more that way. I suppose I'm jaded anyway because I've lived here all my life so it doesn't seem very magical. You know, the whole grass is always greener somewhere else. Most of the people I know think that Europe, Asia, or Latin America is a lot more enchanting and exotic and think they'll only find thrills there. I'm sure the people over there think the exact opposite and feel the real magic happens in America though.

[Disney's Divinity]

I love both Charlotte and Tiana. I'd say people gravitate to Charlotte because she's a very well-done comical character who felt fairly new and different as compared to Tiana who was the usual princess with a dream.

Having two female characters that were so different from one another, who weren't in a rivalry and who weren't hateful to one another was a new thing at the time. Similar to how a hodgepodge of elements seem borrowed from or tested out prior with films pre-TLM to The Lion King and onwards (the twin crocodiles and Syke's dogs that operate similarly to Flotsam and Jetsam, the scene of Medusa putting on her makeup while talking condescendingly to Penny - Ursula putting on her makeup while talking condescendingly to Ariel, Ursula's grotesque figure / dealmaker personality / sexual humor / desire for a powerful object and random skin color being similar to the Witches of Morva, the plot of siblings fighting over power dropped from TLM recurring in TLK with Mufasa and Scar, etc. etc.), Frozen's refreshing sisterly bond which catapulted it to enormous success / acclaim seems to have been first tested out in TP&TF and even that Tinker Bell film that Lasseter was involved with it, too.

[DisneyFan09]

Source: http://diskingdom.com/2019/02/17/disney ... -previews/


Source: https://diskingdom.com/2019/02/09/disne ... ming-soon/

Oh God, I hate that look on the Princesses. They look so awful and generic.

Because America doesn't really have any princesses or royalty with the exception of certain women who married into European royalty like Grace Kelly or now Meghan Markle and even then, although they are American-bred women, they would be the princesses of their new country, not America. Tiana bothered me more because she was such a direct attempt to create a black princess and appeal to an American audience. Disney didn't trust making an actual African princess, when there are so many African folktales and cultures they could have adapted. On top of that, it's weird to have a princess in a modern setting along with the rest of the girls in the lineup. It takes away from the timeless, fairy tale quality imo. I've said to other users here that Tiana reminds me more of modern-day women like Nani, who I like as a character but wouldn't see as fitting for the DP lineup.

I suppose one can criticize Anastasia for this as well because the 1926 setting is shared with TPATF, but that's more true for the second half of the film with the modern, Parisian setting. The first half is still set in Russia and all the Imperial Russian elements are dated and carry over from the 1800s, not to mention the 300 year Romanov dynasty. There's a reason the Russians were considered outdated, especially their monarchy, in the 1900s. Even in the program for the Broadway musical, they talk about how the story is unique because it comes from a classical fairy tale setting to something that is entirely modern and liberated, which people in the audience noted as well. I prefer the more fairy tale elements of the film and I always wish we had a film based on classical Russian fairy tales.

Pocahontas doesn't bother me because she still comes from a different culture that technically wasn't American since America didn't exist back then. It would be the Powhatan culture. On top of this, her story takes place long ago so it really isn't contemporary and although her status as a princess is debatable, since there wasn't such a title in her culture, she was considered a princess by the English. Even before Disney, she's been labeled a princess ever since her story circulated around the New World and England. She's the closest that America has to a real life American princess, so I suppose she's a special exception.

Well said! You deserve a thumbs up for this

[JeanGreyForever]

Oh God, I hate that look on the Princesses. They look so awful and generic.

Well said! You deserve a thumbs up for this

I agree. I liked it when it was just a fancomic but it didn't need to be anything official. Frankly it regurgitates all the most common complaints about the princesses which probably helped inspire the scene in WIR2 as well. I much prefer the Disney Prince comic that features all the male heroes living in a castle together as seen here.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/what-if-all-the ... 1441338165

Thanks for the thumbs up!

[Disney Duster]

Oh, I would never ever want Charlotte in the DP line. She's not a princess! She has the heart of one, or sure, but I only want actual princesses in. I love what you said about how fans connect to Charlotte more than Tiana because of wishing and dreaming! But Tiana does some of that, too, so I am ok with Tiana. I also like what you said about America. Yeah, I guess I just wish America could get it's own magic and I feel with Oz and Disney it has. I mean, true, it's not like it ever had a real monarchy, but I can imagine one and imagine and believe magic could exist here! Why not believe fairies could live in our backyards or witches could cast spells on some American beauties? We do have two Disney parks full of magic after all.

[Sotiris]

Remember when Disney said Moana is definitely not a princess?

Celebration over the introduction of a Pacific Islander princess in “Moana” has apparently been premature. Because the film barely mentions her lineage, the company will not be calling Moana a princess, according to a Disney spokesman.

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/11/busi ... ngdom.html

[disneyprincess11]

It's official!

[Disney's Divinity]

We all knew she would be thrown in there eventually. The same will happen with Elsa and Anna maybe a decade from now when the Frozen franchise isn't as strong anymore. That point will be, I'm assuming, half a decade or so after Frozen 3, but who knows if Disney would actually keep going with it. Frozen doesn't have the kind of plot / characters that could reasonably go on for an eternity like, say, Toy Story or Winnie the Pooh.

At least they did do their best to try to see if Moana could stand on its own legs as a property for a while first. They could've easily inducted her into the DP line immediately without showing any confidence in the film or the character(s), which would've been worse.

[Sotiris]

Moana is included in the Princesses Day pin collection.


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneyGazetteFr/sta ... 4792528896

[blackcauldron85]

^ Not to get off-topic, but the poster of all the pins (from that Twitter link) has a Tarzan one. I thought people said that Disney can't use Tarzan anymore??

[DisneyBluLife]

Moana is included in the Princesses Day pin collection.


Source: https://twitter.com/DisneyGazetteFr/sta ... 4792528896

I wonder why Merida is not included? Since these pins are based on the Pirate vs Princess festival parade in Disneyland Paris, which Merida too is a part of.

[disneyprincess11]

LOVE LOVE!

They just added baby Moana to a compilation video of baby Disney Princesses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEOc2bGV3j8