Glen Keane News & Discussion

[Rumpelstiltskin]

Glad to see the new clip didn't gave away everything.

Yes, that's probably the documentary I saw. It proves that much could still be done with the old medium. If only the tools (and budgets) had been available in the early 60s.

Lotte Reiniger, a female, made the oldest surviving animated feature; a story about a prince. Walt Disney, a male, released the first hand-drawn feature; a story about a princess.
The Adventures of Prince Achmed was more than just silhouettes on a background; a lot of experimenting was involved. Experimenting in animation these days usually happen through software or in stop-motion.

Didn't make the connection between Lunaria and the Chinese lanterns at first. Lanterns and tears.

[Redadoodles]

Here is a video of Glen Keane discussing his process and thoughts behind Pocahontas's design. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEb6xwkeWog&t=337s

[D82]

Lotte Reiniger, a female, made the oldest surviving animated feature; a story about a prince. Walt Disney, a male, released the first hand-drawn feature; a story about a princess.

It's true! That's curious.

Didn't make the connection between Lunaria and the Chinese lanterns at first. Lanterns and tears.

Me neither.

Here is a video of Glen Keane discussing his process and thoughts behind Pocahontas's design. Enjoy!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEb6xwkeWog&t=337s

Thanks for sharing! It's always a joy to watch him draw. And the comparison between Pocahontas and Ariel was interesting. They couldn't be more different from one another design-wise.

[Sotiris]

I would like to frame that quote and hang it on the wall.

The way "me" is pronounced in the line "I hear they say that the Milky Way can't help but envy me" also sounds strange to me, but maybe it's correct.

In songs, pronunciation is oftentimes stretched to match the rhythm of the song. If you noticed, "luminary" is also mispronounced (she pronounces it luMInary and luminaRY instead of LUminary), but that's generally considered an acceptable practice in singing.

Chang'e does sing "you revel to the glory of my beauty" in the lyric video. It's not just the lyrics as I said. The first time the chorus is sung she says "revel in", but the second time she says "revel to". However, in the full version of the song she sings "revel in" both times, so at least that error is not on the actual soundtrack. It's strange they didn't notice the mistake in the lyric video and they even wrote the lyrics wrong. It's also curious they didn't use the same recording for the lyric video than for the soundtrack, at least not all the time.

That's really strange. They must have noticed the mistake before the soundtrack went to press. Did they record the song twice or just edited it? Probably the latter which is cheaper. In any case, it's a relief that in the actual soundtrack the phrasal verb is used correctly.

And though I knew the basic concepts about the different types of animation, there were several details I didn't know and also some forms of stop motion I hadn't heard about before, like cut-out or silhouette animation.

Don't sweat it. There are only three animation mediums: hand-drawn, stop-motion, and computer. Everything else is either a subcategory or a hybrid.

In a new interview, Glen Keane says he tried to make the designs different from Disney. In my opinion, he wasn't completely successful, but I don't mind it at all.

Me neither. I would say Fei Fei is the most Disney-esque in design while the rest of the characters, particularly her family, are a bit more caricatured than how Disney usually designs them.

And it seems the ending will be open to interpretation as some of us feared, and it won't be made clear whether the adventures the protagonist has on the Moon were real or not.

While I'm generally not a fan of open endings, sometimes they work if they suit the story and are well-executed. I would have preferred the film made it clear it was a dream, but leaving it be open-ended is an understandable compromise. At least, it's better than saying it was all real outright.

I've also noticed there are a lot of products from the movie on Amazon. Has Netflix released so much merchandise for other films before?

I don't think so. Netflix usually doesn't give its originals a lot of merchandise. Aside from Spirit Rding Free, I don't recall seeing a lot of consumer products for any of its properties. They partnered with Mattel this time, so maybe that's why there's more merch than usual.

Now, things like the animation effects in Who Framed Roger Rabbit are easier to make with computers, so they don't use analog tools anymore. It's a shame, because it doesn't look the same when they use digital tools.

I agree. It doesn't look as good. The same goes for 2D animation that's made with software like Toon Boom.

One was the subtlety of performance and the acting was going to be dealing with real internal acting. That means the most subtle, tiny little gestures. If I could control every one of those things, then I could do it in hand-drawn. But when you're dealing with a team that we had of 120 animators, you have to do something that is a much more robust system for controlling that subtlety.

I don't buy that CG animation is capable of more subtlety than hand-drawn. I would even argue the opposite is true. Having a character blink more often or do some other micro-movements that aren't even detectable in real time does not make a performance more nuanced, authentic or believable.

[DisneyFan97]

I LOVE the song Ultraluminary !!

It's amazing !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOkCnb16fdE

And this music video is gorgeous !!

[DisneyFan97]

I read on IMDB that veteran Asian actress Irene Tsu a member of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and the Screen Actors Guild will voice a grandma character in the movie. Tsu has work steadily in movies ,tv and theater since 1961.

[Sotiris]

A track from the score titled Remember When We Said Goodbye has been released.

[unprincess]

Does that mean Chinese/Korean/Japanese kids like the same lowbrow cringe comedy that American/Western kids like?

Pretty much. There's a lot of Chinese animation out there that's really dumbed-down and tasteless. Not everything is a a serious action-adventure epic. Chinese media for kids aren't that different from Western ones, I'd say. The tone and the low-brow humor is pretty similar. Where they differ are the types of stories they use (usually derived from myths, folklore, and religion) as well as specific culture practices they reference.

I somehow missed your reply to my question about Chinese vs western audiences taste regarding humor. I wonder how much of this preference(tolerance?) for lowbrow humor is due to globalization. I also wonder if Pearl Studios future films will always be a mix of Asian and western themes/aesthetic.

I don't think so. Netflix usually doesn't give its originals a lot of merchandise. Aside from Spirit Rding Free, I don't recall seeing a lot of consumer products for any of its properties. They partnered with Mattel this time, so maybe that's why there's more merch than usual.

Mattel made dolls and role play toys for the She-Ra series as well. They must have made a contract with them to make merch for different projects.

[D82]

I've noticed that the Latin American music video for "Ultraluminary", unlike the domestic one, features the full song and all the visuals that accompany the song in the movie.

A track from the score titled Remember When We Said Goodbye has been released.

It's not bad; I think I'll like the score as well as the songs. That track was also part of this preview that was released some days ago. And here are some words from the composer.

In songs, pronunciation is oftentimes stretched to match the rhythm of the song. If you noticed, "luminary" is also mispronounced (she pronounces it luMInary and luminaRY instead of LUminary), but that's generally considered an acceptable practice in singing.

I knew about that practice, but I didn't realize that's what happened in that line. Thanks for explaining it to me!

That's really strange. They must have noticed the mistake before the soundtrack went to press. Did they record the song twice or just edited it? Probably the latter which is cheaper. In any case, it's a relief that in the actual soundtrack the phrasal verb is used correctly.

I guess you're right and that's what happened.

I would say Fei Fei is the most Disney-esque in design while the rest of the characters, particularly her family, are a bit more caricatured than how Disney usually designs them.

Yes, I agree. Although Chin and Chang'e (except her proportions; she's super tall) also look quite Disney-esque to me.

While I'm generally not a fan of open endings, sometimes they work if they suit the story and are well-executed. I would have preferred the film made it clear it was a dream, but leaving it be open-ended is an understandable compromise. At least, it's better than saying it was all real outright.

I, on the other hand, was hoping it would be made clear it was all real, but given that Fei Fei's journey to the moon seems quite implausible, in this case maybe it'll be for the best that it'll be left open-ended.

The same goes for 2D animation that's made with software like Toon Boom.

I agree.

Netflix usually doesn't give its originals a lot of merchandise. Aside from Spirit Rding Free, I don't recall seeing a lot of consumer products for any of its properties. They partnered with Mattel this time, so maybe that's why there's more merch than usual.

Mattel made dolls and role play toys for the She-Ra series as well. They must have made a contract with them to make merch for different projects.

Thanks for the replies and for the info. I guess you're both right and it has to do with their partnership with Mattel.

[Sotiris]

I've noticed that the Latin American music video for "Ultraluminary", unlike the domestic one, features the full song and all the visuals that accompany the song in the movie.

Thanks for posting that. It was nice to see the whole sequence as it appears in the film unaltered. The choreography of the scene is impressive. It must have taken the animators a lot of time studying reference footage to accurately animate the dance moves. By the way, is the sound off in that video or is it me? At certain places, the vocals became louder than normal and stood out from the rest of the song.

It's not bad; I think I'll like the score as well as the songs. That track was also part of this preview that was released some days ago. And here are some words from the composer.

From the sampling of the score you posted as well as the individual track that was released, I would say the score is just serviceable. Nothing special or particularly memorable.

I, on the other hand, was hoping it would be made clear it was all real, but given that Fei Fei's journey to the moon seems quite implausible, in this case maybe it'll be for the best that it'll be left open-ended.

The way the story is set up, that wouldn't feel right. It would be like if Alice really traveled to Wonderland and it wasn't just a dream. Of course, you can tell a story where a regular person is transported to a fantasy world and it's all real instead of a dream or an illusion, but you need to set the appropriate tone and the "rules" from the beginning for it to be believable.

Thanks for the replies and for the info. I guess you're both right and it has to do with their partnership with Mattel.

Well, it also has to do with it being a high-budgeted production that will be released theatrically in China and has a lot of merchandising potential. Tie-in merch for kids is where the money's at.

[D82]

Glen Keane draws Fei Fei and other characters from the film in this video, and there's some new footage in this making-of featurette for the Latin American version of "Rocket to the Moon".

It was nice to see the whole sequence as it appears in the film unaltered. The choreography of the scene is impressive. It must have taken the animators a lot of time studying reference footage to accurately animate the dance moves.

Now I can't find where, but I think I read somewhere that they hired a professional choreographer to advise them on that. They also enlisted the services of a famous Chinese costume designer, Guo Pei, to create the costumes.

By the way, is the sound off in that video or is it me? At certain places, the vocals became louder than normal and stood out from the rest of the song.

No, it's not just you. The sound in that video is indeed off. At first I thought it was my headphones since they sometimes give me problems and I kept plugging and unplugging them. I don't know how they didn't notice it before uploading the video.

The way the story is set up, that wouldn't feel right. It would be like if Alice really traveled to Wonderland and it wasn't just a dream. Of course, you can tell a story where a regular person is transported to a fantasy world and it's all real instead of a dream or an illusion, but you need to set the appropriate tone and the "rules" from the beginning for it to be believable.

I guess you're right, the fact that the protagonist could travel to the moon in a rocket she had created seemed a bit too far-fetched from the beginning.

Well, it also has to do with it being a high-budgeted production that will be released theatrically in China and has a lot of merchandising potential. Tie-in merch for kids is where the money's at.

Yes, of course. Mattel wouldn't have partnered with Netflix if not for that.

[Disney's Divinity]

I only read a little of the past page or so, but the discussion aboutwhether the ending will be a dream or not.... I have to admit the storyline always made me think the Moon Queen is supposed to be an insert for the protagonist's (dead) mother, sort of the way the Fairy Godmother is for Cinderella (who comes to her underneath the willow over top her mother's grave), as a way to help the protagonist cope with being without her mother or mend the scars grief has left on her. That to me would explain the protagonist's obsession with something crazy from her childhood--as a subconscious longing to be with her mother again in the material world (something as impossible as going to the moon). That's why I expect she'll wake up with nothing having really happened. Or that it was all in her head with the hint it could've happened and still hold meaning for her (you could look at it as she's been given this vision by her mother, for example). Reminds me of HP--"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" Idk, that was just my impression of how this would go since the first trailers.

This drops on Netflix 10/22, right? I had wanted to watch it the day of, but it looks like I probably won't see it until the weekend after or later. On the bright side, that's much earlier than I usually see things these days. Like TS4 or Avengers: Endgame, which I still have not seen...

[D82]

Sing Along Lesson with Phillipa Soo & Cathy Ang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9uizMZiVNQ

I only read a little of the past page or so, but the discussion aboutwhether the ending will be a dream or not.... I have to admit the storyline always made me think the Moon Queen is supposed to be an insert for the protagonist's (dead) mother, sort of the way the Fairy Godmother is for Cinderella (who comes to her underneath the willow over top her mother's grave), as a way to help the protagonist cope with being without her mother or mend the scars grief has left on her. That to me would explain the protagonist's obsession with something crazy from her childhood--as a subconscious longing to be with her mother again in the material world (something as impossible as going to the moon). That's why I expect she'll wake up with nothing having really happened. Or that it was all in her head with the hint it could've happened and still hold meaning for her (you could look at it as she's been given this vision by her mother, for example). Reminds me of HP--"Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?" Idk, that was just my impression of how this would go since the first trailers.

I think it'll be similar to what you described. However, if they leave the ending open to interpretation, I wonder how they're going to explain the fact that Chin is also with Fei Fei in her adventure. If it was all in her mind, he shouldn't "remember" anything at the end and then Fei Fei would know it wasn't real. Maybe Chang'e will erase all his memories from the Moon before they return to Earth for some reason?

This drops on Netflix 10/22, right? I had wanted to watch it the day of, but it looks like I probably won't see it until the weekend after or later. On the bright side, that's much earlier than I usually see things these days. Like TS4 or Avengers: Endgame, which I still have not seen...

It's actually released on October 23. I hope you can watch it sooner rather than later.

[Rumpelstiltskin]

It's true! That's curious.

And they're both based on stories from classic fairytale sources. Would have been interesting to see The Adventures of Prince Achmed as a modern remake (even if I prefer original stories).

The same goes for 2D animation that's made with software like Toon Boom.

I don't know what it is, but it is usually possible, and sometimes very easy, to notice the difference between hand-drawn animation done with software, and animation done on cels.

I don't buy that CG animation is capable of more subtlety than hand-drawn. I would even argue the opposite is true. Having a character blink more often or do some other micro-movements that aren't even detectable in real time does not make a performance more nuanced, authentic or believable.

True or not, that's the explanation he gives for choosing CGI. With his next movie I hope he thinks the script requires hand-drawn. That would also make it possible for him to hire old professional artists like Mark Henn, Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, just to mention a few, which are unable to use their skills in any hand-drawn projects for the moment. The talent and experience is out there, just waiting for someone to hire them.

From a new article:

https://io9.gizmodo.com/how-over-the-mo ... 1845371242

“First, I looked at it and went ‘Is that mine?’ But I said ‘No, it looks better. What is it?’ [There was] something really different and nice about it proportionally. There was this elongation or something. And I told my producer, ‘I want that. I want to get that into my drawing.’ She said, ‘Well, let’s hire her.’”

So the team hired artist Brittany Myers to come on board and help with the film, which is just one example of how Keane found that the work he’s done during his career inspired a generation, which is now inspiring him right back.

“It was really this wonderful new thing for me on this movie that I am going to keep going on for the rest of my life, which is reverse mentorship,” Keane said. “Surround myself with younger people that are so awesome and wonderful that I can learn from. And I know I’m going to share something that I’ve got hopefully with them, but I am unashamedly learning from them.”

That's what I have meant for a long time; there are so many different styles out there that would work great in animation, both hand-drawn and/or CGI. The younger generations of artists has a lot to offer, but so does established artists like for instance John Byrne. His style from his X-Men days could be adapted to the animation medium, and offer something new in hte medium.

[Sotiris]

Glen Keane draws Fei Fei and other characters from the film in this video.

Thanks for sharing that video! Glen's drawings are so full of life and appeal. It's just a delight to look at them. I'm sad at the thought we might never get another movie with a character animated by him.

They also enlisted the services of a famous Chinese costume designer, Guo Pei, to create the costumes.

I've looked her up and her work is awe-inspiring. Beautiful, but also challenging and original. A perfect blend of avant-garde and traditional.

I have to admit the storyline always made me think the Moon Queen is supposed to be an insert for the protagonist's mother as a way to help the protagonist cope with being without her mother or mend the scars grief has left on her. That to me would explain the protagonist's obsession with something crazy from her childhood--as a subconscious longing to be with her mother again in the material world (something as impossible as going to the moon.)

That's what I understood as well. Fei Fei identifies Chang'e with her mom and believes the tragic love story between her and Hou Yi is the same as the one between her mom and dad. That's why she's so reluctant to accept a new woman in his life. This adventure to the moon is a way for her to not only learn how to cope with loss, but also realize that moving forward doesn't mean you're forgetting the ones who've passed or love them any less.

However, if they leave the ending open to interpretation, I wonder how they're going to explain the fact that Chin is also with Fei Fei in her adventure. If it was all in her mind, he shouldn't "remember" anything at the end and then Fei Fei would know it wasn't real.

You make a good point. Maybe they won't show Fei Fei questioning if it was real or not. Maybe they'll gloss over that and take us straight to the happy ending. I'm also curious as to how they'll execute that supposed open ending.

[D82]

New videos: "Meet Gobi" clip and How to Build a Rocket with Cathy Ang.

Glen's drawings are so full of life and appeal. It's just a delight to look at them. I'm sad at the thought we might never get another movie with a character animated by him.

I couldn't agree more. I hope he gets to direct one more movie, though, but this time in hand-drawn animation, or at least more shorts. But it's incredible what he has achieved so far since he left Disney; he received an Oscar and now has directed his own movie. I'm really glad he has managed to do all these things lately.

I've looked her up and her work is awe-inspiring. Beautiful, but also challenging and original. A perfect blend of avant-garde and traditional.

It's true, and that's perfect for this movie. I wonder if there'll be more costumes in the film that we haven't seen yet.

Maybe they won't show Fei Fei questioning if it was real or not. Maybe they'll gloss over that and take us straight to the happy ending.

I hope not, I hope they address it, but I wouldn't be surprised if they do what you said and don't explain it.

And they're both based on stories from classic fairytale sources. Would have been interesting to see The Adventures of Prince Achmed as a modern remake (even if I prefer original stories).

That's also true. Well, The Adventures of Prince Achmed was a silent film, so a remake at least would have a lot of room for making it different.

With his next movie I hope he thinks the script requires hand-drawn. That would also make it possible for him to hire old professional artists like Mark Henn, Andreas Deja and Eric Goldberg, just to mention a few, which are unable to use their skills in any hand-drawn projects for the moment. The talent and experience is out there, just waiting for someone to hire them.

I hadn't thought of that possibility. That would be so amazing! I hope it does happen.

[D82]

New Over the Moon videos

Ken Jeong Surprises Kid Writer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fb0xDu3GX4

Over the Moon Q&A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z9K_RPV9x0


More interviews with Glen Keane

The Disney renaissance was just a stepping stone for Glen Keane
https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/21/2152 ... s-animator

How legendary animator Glen Keane went from making your favorite Disney movies to directing his first animated Netflix film
https://www.insider.com/how-glen-keane- ... etflix?amp

‘Over the Moon’: How Glen Keane Leveraged His Disney DNA for Netflix’s Chinese Moon Goddess Fable
https://www.indiewire.com/2020/10/over- ... 234594035/

How Disney Animation Legend Glen Keane Finds Magic in Everyday Life
https://www.backstage.com/magazine/arti ... oon-71938/


And interviews with the composers

Composer Steven Price on Making Music for Over the Moon
http://www.btlnews.com/composers/steven ... -the-moon/

Netflix Animated Film 'Over the Moon': Interview with the Songwriting Team
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi9jCfOuy24

[Rumpelstiltskin]

I find some of his comments interesting (still have a couple of articles left to read):

You don’t have to have a computer to draw something that’s solid and dimensional. You have to have a mind that sees it like that.

Production designer Celine Desrumaux came up with the idea of everything on the moon emitting its own glow and light. This idea excited Keane, who decided to draw upon the works of surrealist painter Joan Miró — something that he’d wanted to do ever since randomly meeting the artist’s grandson on the streets of Paris, and falling in love with the artist’s spherical wonders.

Keane says he likely did more drawing for Over the Moon than for any Disney movie (“I think I drew over every shot”). It’s easier to communicate with drawings, he says, instead of giving vague instructions.

And:

When asked if one of the reasons he left Disney was because he didn't get an opportunity to direct, Keane told Insider, "No, not really."

"I started to develop another project there that I love, and I think that that was going to be...," Keane continued before trailing off and starting over. "I really was happy at Disney and loved my relationship there, but there's something about a huge studio that you carry so much weight on your shoulders as what that film has to represent."

I wonder what project he was developing at Disney back then. A short or a feature, and what happened to it?

[D82]

Once again, the actual reviews aren't as glowing as the first reactions. Over the Moon currently has a 77% score on Rotten Tomatoes with 44 reviews. It's not a bad score, though.

And here are links to listen to the film's songs on Youtube, though I'm afraid they'll probably only work for Europe. Anyway, they'll soon be available in the rest of the world too.

1. On the Moon Above: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wTz8ccUBtM
2. Mooncakes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5X4r4dtr87s
3. Rocket to the Moon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJnagpz2M3M
4. Rocket to the Moon (Reprise): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05hDQygE0Pc
5. Ultraluminary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd2zSQ3gtQE
6. Hey Boy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4zNkb1N6Mo
7. Wonderful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rz1we6w1EI
8. Yours Forever (Reprise): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09C4HF8FY2o
9. Love Someone New: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xnybb12HGk

When asked if one of the reasons he left Disney was because he didn't get an opportunity to direct, Keane told Insider, "No, not really."

"I started to develop another project there that I love, and I think that that was going to be...," Keane continued before trailing off and starting over. "I really was happy at Disney and loved my relationship there, but there's something about a huge studio that you carry so much weight on your shoulders as what that film has to represent."

I wonder what project he was developing at Disney back then. A short or a feature, and what happened to it?

That's really interesting! It hadn't been revealed before, had it? I wish he had given us more details about the project in that interview.

[Farerb]

Quick Review:

I saw the film and I enjoyed it, especially the heartfelt moments between Fei-Fei and Chang'e in the end, the beginning with Fei-Fei's mother was good and I also liked the overall message of letting other people in after you lost someone and how it connects both Fei-Fei and Chang'e.

What I didn't like was all the things that happened from when Fei-Fei arrives at the moon till she gives Chang'e the gift. I don't mind "adventures" but the way it was implement here was juvenile and mostly for kids (it's fine just not really for me). It also felt more like padding rather than something integral for the story.

As for the music, I feel like the songs are mostly fine, they are better in the context of the film, but tbh I don't feel like they are that memorable on their own. When Disney releases a soundtrack I end up listening to it for days or weeks and that's not the case here for me. My favorite song is "Yours Forever (Reprise)", though I would have used "full version" to describe it rather than a reprise. My least favorite song is "Hey Boy" it's just dreadful, but less awful in the context of the film. Phillipa Soo is amazing.

Personally I feel like this movie is what Disney's The Snow Queen should have been in a lot of ways.