Disney's Divinity wrote:the Disney image in general has improved among audiences, though I'm not sure if they're on the same level they were in the '90s yet.
Not even close, and I doubt they'll ever will be simply because they don't have the monopoly and power on the animated feature business they used to.
That's what I was thinking, too. And I think it's better that they don't, tbh, because competition leads to better work--usually. The reverse would be copying ideas from the (more successful) competition, but thankfully they're not doing that so much anymore.
Whether it was simply an "unfortunate choice of words" or not, he said it, and it wasn't something a veteran of the animation industry should say.
I doubt he's kicking himself because a couple of people on the UD forums find it disrespectful. Besides, as you said, he is a veteran, with more experience across genres to speak his mind than anyone here (and that includes me, of course).
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
Wow, way to be disrespectful. "That person" is a Disney Legend, going back to the days of Sleeping Beauty.
Anyway, I agree with a lot of what Norman says, except for the "real animators" comment. CG animators work very hard and have done some stunning character and background animation over the years. A lot of animators for computer animated films have probably done hand-drawn work in the past, too, before even putting their hands on a mouse.
Well, just because I agree that we need more hand drawn animation, doesn't mean I agree about getting rid CGI. Besides Disney is doing a great job with CGI thanks to Tangled.
Probably kicking a dead horse, but if John Lasseter promised for Disney to make more hand-drawn films, I really want him to fulfill his promise. And yet since he said that would happen, many people who worked for Disney ended up jumping ship (quitting) or pretty much fired.
Frankly, I kind of think Lasseter's screwing us (the fans and animators) over royally.
Yeah. It's almost as if his company was praised as the best animation studio and snagged several awards for four years in a row or something.
Oh wait. That did happen.
I will say this. Though like so many other people, I also wish for 2D animation to return, I think the last few movies were still of pretty good quality.
DisneyJedi wrote:Frankly, I kind of think Lasseter's screwing us (the fans and animators) over royally. Sad
Without wanting to start another debate about John Lasseter, I disagree with this.
In the case of people like Glen Keane and Andreas Deja, I'm not going to say that the lack of hand-drawn projects at WDAS didn't play a part in their respective decisions to leave but after the service they gave to Disney (Glen was around 40 years, Andreas around 30), perhaps their decisions were influenced just as much by their desire to achieve their individual aspirations outside of their careers at the studio.
In regards to the article by Floyd Norman, I wouldn't disagree with a lot of what he says but I agree that he comes across as if he considers CG animation inferior; I'm not saying that's what he thinks but the way he words himself I think gives that impression. I agree that it wouldn't be a risk on the part of WDAS to release more hand-drawn features; I loved PATF so I am definitely of the belief that there is still a market for the medium. I still think that hand-drawn isn't "dead" at Disney; I think if a director came up with a project that had quality and they were passionate about producing it in 2D then Disney would not oppose it; it might be one hand-drawn film every five or six years but I think it could happen, though I'm definitely not saying it will. Perhaps this is just blind optimism but I'm an optimist by nature so I'm happy to wait and see what the future brings.
Disney's Divinity wrote:I doubt he's kicking himself because a couple of people on the UD forums find it disrespectful. Besides, as you said, he is a veteran, with more experience across genres to speak his mind than anyone here (and that includes me, of course).
His status as a veteran doesn't give him an automatic pass. If posters here find his statements to be disrespectful, they are free to call him out.
I don't think he's being purposely disrespectful but that the way he words his argument might give that impression, even if it isn't intended. He does say that he means no disrespect to CG animators but the way he phrases himself before that does give the impression that he considers their medium inferior to traditional hand-drawn animation. Personally I don't think he does think that or intends that to come across in what he says but I can also see why some could have the opinion he is being disrespectful.
The fact that he's a veteran is exactly WHY he shouldn't be saying that. People look up to him and his career - many of them CG animators. It's not the fact that he offended a few UD members- he can offend me all he wants- he owes us nothing. But the artists that believe in their respective art form the same way that he believes in his are being belittled here. He is a role model in the industry - he should act like one.
DisneyJedi wrote:
In regards to the article by Floyd Norman, I wouldn't disagree with a lot of what he says but I agree that he comes across as if he considers CG animation inferior; I'm not saying that's what he thinks but the way he words himself I think gives that impression. I agree that it wouldn't be a risk on the part of WDAS to release more hand-drawn features; I loved PATF so I am definitely of the belief that there is still a market for the medium. I still think that hand-drawn isn't "dead" at Disney; I think if a director came up with a project that had quality and they were passionate about producing it in 2D then Disney would not oppose it; it might be one hand-drawn film every five or six years but I think it could happen, though I'm definitely not saying it will. Perhaps this is just blind optimism but I'm an optimist by nature so I'm happy to wait and see what the future brings.
having him on facebook, at least he seems to like Annoying Orange(judging by his drawings and also assuming he doesnt work on it; I once heard about storyboards) which is clearly animated in what one could consider an inferior style to both mediums.
Also, while I agree ideally a director with a quality idea should be able to do that, there's a lot of studio politics involved in film production. You cant deny that Disney seems to be the only one who denies the existance of such a thing.
ajmrowland wrote:Also, while I agree ideally a director with a quality idea should be able to do that, there's a lot of studio politics involved in film production. You cant deny that Disney seems to be the only one who denies the existance of such a thing.
I'm not denying that, behind-the-scenes politics rule at companies like Disney. All I'm saying at the moment is that I'm kind of choosing not to rule out seeing another hand-drawn feature from Disney in the future. We might not but like I said, I'm an optimist so I'm happy to wait and see what the future brings at WDAS.
ajmrowland wrote:Also, while I agree ideally a director with a quality idea should be able to do that, there's a lot of studio politics involved in film production. You cant deny that Disney seems to be the only one who denies the existance of such a thing.
I'm not denying that, behind-the-scenes politics rule at companies like Disney. All I'm saying at the moment is that I'm kind of choosing not to rule out seeing another hand-drawn feature from Disney in the future. We might not but like I said, I'm an optimist so I'm happy to wait and see what the future brings at WDAS.
SWillie! wrote:Whether it was simply an "unfortunate choice of words" or not, he said it, and it wasn't something a veteran of the animation industry should say.
He obviously shouldn't have said that but I don't think he meant it. He has praised CG animated films and animators multiple times in the past, and I don't think he would have if he believed CG wasn't real animation.
If he has worked in both types of animation, I don't think 2D could be considered "his art form." I doubt he regrets anything he said, and there's no reason he should, really.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
Disney's Divinity wrote:If he has worked in both types of animation, I don't think 2D could be considered "his art form." I doubt he regrets anything he said, and there's no reason he should, really.
Maybe there isn't - as I've said, I understand he didn't mean it "that way". But he ought to clarify his poor choice of words. You can't tell me that saying "yeah, you heard me CG animators... I said REAL animators" isn't rude.
DisneyJedi wrote:Probably kicking a dead horse, but if John Lasseter promised for Disney to make more hand-drawn films, I really want him to fulfill his promise.
Agree. It would be nice to to the CGI movies like Ralph and a 2D movie every couple of years like he originally promised.
DisneyJedi wrote:Probably kicking a dead horse, but if John Lasseter promised for Disney to make more hand-drawn films, I really want him to fulfill his promise.
Agree. It would be nice to to the CGI movies like Ralph and a 2D movie every couple of years like he originally promised.
This makes me want to punch John Lasseteer in the face for breaking his promise. He even break a pinkie promise.
Pinkie Pie: JOHN LASSETER! <iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/8O9HVV-vPMM?rel=0" frameborder="0"></iframe> I know. I know. It's part of my silly pony expression, but I was trying to be funny.
Last edited by TsWade2 on Mon Nov 12, 2012 9:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Once again, Lasseter is the final word on everything at Disney.
Right now, with all the company politics and employment practices, I'll punch Iger and half the board of directors any day of the week before I punch lasseter.
Hi everyone, I've been reading this forum for a while and finally decided to join today.
Bleeding Cool has an interview about Paperman, and this quote from Renato Dos Anjos is interesting...
Bleeding Cool: And yet there’s no traditionally animated film in the pipeline. It’s sad.
Dos Anjos: Well, actually… I’m not going to tell you what but there’s actually something happening right now. But as a studio, we really leave the decision up to the filmmakers. It’s really up to the directors. If that’s story they want to tell and the medium they want to use, then it’s really up to them. We want to support that.
Toonist26 wrote:Hi everyone, I've been reading this forum for a while and finally decided to join today.
Welcome!
Toonist26 wrote:Bleeding Cool has an interview about Paperman, and this quote from Renato Dos Anjos is interesting.
The feature he's talking about is probably Clements and Musker's upcoming film which will utilize the 'Paperman' technique.
But as a studio, we really leave the decision up to the filmmakers. It’s really up to the directors. If that’s story they want to tell and the medium they want to use, then it’s really up to them. We want to support that.
Yeah, right. No one is buying that fairy tale anymore.
When we do pitch, it's made clear to us that the stories aren't necessarily for a hand-drawn project. When we've brought it up with John Lasseter, he's shied away from committing to a hand-drawn feature.
Last edited by Sotiris on Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
