Beauty & the Beast original colors - in upcoming platinu

[Rudy Matt]

You know, this is starting to frustrate me. The VHS/Laserdsic version was an analog transfer taken from an analog film interpositive which was itself struck from the analog negative which was struck by three argo gas lasers from the digital CAPS files. It was three generations down from the CAPS files. What you guys saw in theaters was a Digital-to-Analog-to-Subsequent Analog transfer, what you saw on VHS and LAserdisc was another step down from that, using technology created in the 1980's! Remember The Rescuers Down Under DVD? It was an analog port from a film Interpositive, not the CAPS files, and it looks like garbage -- Look at Hercules and Hunchback. Same thing. I can't wait for digital to digital CAPS releases for RDU, Hercules and Hunchback. They're going to be stunning.

But you know what's going to happen when they street? Someone, surely with good intentions, is going to complain the digital-to-digital ports don't look like their old worn out VHS tapes and laserdiscs. And as well-meaning as they are, they are going to make the claim that the films were altered, the artists rights are being trampled on, etc.

I think you guys, well-meaning though you truly seem to be, are making a mistake. The DVD release was digital-to-digital. Not digital (Caps files) to analog (negative) to analog (Interpositve) to analog again (VHS/Laserdisc).

If I was going to start a petition, it would be asking Disney to take a percentage of the profits from the last video release and put them towards reanimating all the rushed animation in the film. I don't blame the animators. They're given a budget and a time-table, and they can only work with the resources they have. But Beauty and the Beast will never stand alongside Pinocchio, Fantasia, Bambi, Sleeping Beauty, Dumbo, Alice in Wonderland and Lady and the Tramp for me when it has such rushed, community college-level animation in so many places. The animators did what they could with what they had in the time allowed to them, but I don't care how pretty the music is, and how appealing the story -- if Beauty and the Beast wants to lay claim to "best animated film of all time", it has a lot of 'splainin' to do about the sub-standard animation, Lucy.

[Beast_enchantment]

You know, this is starting to frustrate me. The VHS/Laserdsic version was an analog transfer taken from an analog film interpositive which was itself struck from the analog negative which was struck by three argo gas lasers from the digital CAPS files. It was three generations down from the CAPS files. What you guys saw in theaters was a Digital-to-Analog-to-Subsequent Analog transfer, what you saw on VHS and LAserdisc was another step down from that, using technology created in the 1980's! Remember The Rescuers Down Under DVD? It was an analog port from a film Interpositive, not the CAPS files, and it looks like garbage -- Look at Hercules and Hunchback. Same thing. I can't wait for digital to digital CAPS releases for RDU, Hercules and Hunchback. They're going to be stunning.

But you know what's going to happen when they street? Someone, surely with good intentions, is going to complain the digital-to-digital ports don't look like their old worn out VHS tapes and laserdiscs. And as well-meaning as they are, they are going to make the claim that the films were altered, the artists rights are being trampled on, etc.

I think you guys, well-meaning though you truly seem to be, are making a mistake. The DVD release was digital-to-digital. Not digital (Caps files) to analog (negative) to analog (Interpositve) to analog again (VHS/Laserdisc).

Well, if that is indeed the case why is there no dramatic leap in colours between the VHS/Laserdisc versions of Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas etc and their DVD editions? Surely your rambling makes no sense when you take these films into consideration.

[ajmrowland]

Even though it's likely not to succeed due to analog, the petition has been sent in. I'll be posting the link, shortly.

[Rudy Matt]

Well, if that is indeed the case why is there no dramatic leap in colours between the VHS/Laserdisc versions of Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas etc and their DVD editions? Surely your rambling makes no sense when you take these films into consideration.

They are! Are you blind?!? -- The colors and details in Aladdin are actually so vivid and saturated, my Mother In Law (who saw her boys and daughter grow up with the film) walked through the room, saw the DVD on the HD set, and was startled by how the colors looked.

And its not just Aladdin, Pocahontas, Beauty and the Beast and The Lion king -- go compare your Limited Issue DVD of Mulan (taken from an analog master struck from an analog IP) with the DVD (digital to digital port). Wait until you see how A Bug's Life looks on Blu-Ray. Your mind is going to be blown.

By the by, the Blu-Ray of Enchanted features many clips from the HD version of Beauty and the Beast. That release is going to be stunning.

Don't waste your time with your petition, just dump your laserdiscs onto DVD if you want that analog look you believe is the "true version" of the film. And as always, believe what you want to believe, because the truth obviously can't convince you.

[drfsupercenter]

The BatB DVD isn't a digital CAPS port though. That's the thing.

Look at Mulan and Pocahontas. Both of those WERE CAPS ports and I haven't really heard any complaints about them. (Besides they "special edition" stuff and whatnot, but nobody saying the colors bugged them)
And if I can find my old Mulan DVD I will show how the colors from the telecine are actually very close to the real CAPS colors.
Not anywhere near as drastic as Beauty and the Beast.

Again, I'm not saying the VHS/laserdisc colors are perfect. But they're better than the altered DVD. (I refuse to use the word "restored" as you can't restore something that's inherently digital to begin with like that!)

They are! Are you blind?!? -- The colors and details in Aladdin is actually so vivid and saturated with its colors, my Mother In Law (who saw her boys and daughter grow up with the film) walked through the room, saw the DVD on the HD set, and was sartled by how different they looked.

Aladdin, maybe. But see, Aladdin's DVD was also an "IMAX restoration"... they just never got around to showing it in the IMAX theater. I don't mind it as much a it's still the OTV (unlike TLK and BatB which are redrawn), just with a bit different colors. That's fixable, the other two aren't.

As far as Mulan, I actually did compare them and they look very similar.

As for "the truth"... the truth is that Disney took the CAPS files, made a ton of changes to them including the colors/detail, then put that version on a DVD and tried to pass it off as the original (the "OTV" anyway). I'm not saying the VHS is the perfect colors. But they didn't modify them when putting it in analog form as they did when they made the DVD.

[ajmrowland]

Well, if that is indeed the case why is there no dramatic leap in colours between the VHS/Laserdisc versions of Aladdin, The Lion King, Pocahontas etc and their DVD editions? Surely your rambling makes no sense when you take these films into consideration.

They are! Are you blind?!? -- The colors and details in Aladdin are actually so vivid and saturated, my Mother In Law (who saw her boys and daughter grow up with the film) walked through the room, saw the DVD on the HD set, and was startled by how the colors looked.

And its not just Aladdin, Pocahontas, Beauty and the Beast and The Lion king -- go compare your Limited Issue DVD of Mulan (taken from an analog master struck from an analog IP) with the DVD (digital to digital port). Wait until you see how A Bug's Life looks on Blu-Ray. Your mind is going to be blown.

By the by, the Blu-Ray of Enchanted features many clips from the HD version of Beauty and the Beast. That release is going to be stunning.

Don't waste your time with your petition, just dump your laserdiscs onto DVD if you want that analog look you believe is the "true version" of the film. And as always, believe what you want to believe, because the truth obviously can't convince you.

can't argue with that, I guess. A Bug's Life should look awesome in HD, as I've already seen the difference involving Cars and Ratatouille. Why did I even post that petition? Oh, yeah, because this argument never ends, no matter how much evidence points towards the DVD being closer to the CAPS files can't break the barrier of what is 16 years of false beliefs.

[SpringHeelJack]

Jeez. I don't even remember who likes what colors anymore. What a mind-numbing headache this topic has been.

[ajmrowland]

Jeez. I don't even remember who likes what colors anymore. What a mind-numbing headache this topic has been.

Let's give this up, then. It's clear that the Blu-ray will have the most pleasing image of all the releases. anyway.

[SpringHeelJack]

Unless it's too bright.

Either way, I'm going to avoid this forum for about a month when the movie is re-released.

[DisneyJedi]

"Dear Walt Disney Home Entertainment, many fans(myself included) on ultimatedisney.com, along with a few other sites, have been discussing the upcoming Beauty and the Beast platinum edition DVD/Blu-ray, and have a request. Many have complained about the previous Platinum Edition NOT having the Original Theatrical Cut, but simply a "watered down" version of the one that was released for IMAX screens without the "Human Again" sequence. hey notice the colors being different from that of the original VHS/Laserdisc version, as well as many of the theatrical trailers and tv spots.
Also, there are some scenes that were "trimmed" after the original release that some people would like to see.
If the movie was changed for the Special Edition release in any way(other than the "Human Again" sequence), if you can, we ask that you provide the movie with a direct port of the original CAPS files and the colors as they were shown in theaters during the initial release, along with what you did for the Special Edition."

Trimmed scenes? What were these trimmed scenes? Can anyone fill me in on the details?

[Thailog]

There is no doubt in my mind now that the DVD is not what it originally looked like. I tried denying it but I have come to see the light. The version on the DVD is not the OTV, end of story.

[ajmrowland]

"Dear Walt Disney Home Entertainment, many fans(myself included) on ultimatedisney.com, along with a few other sites, have been discussing the upcoming Beauty and the Beast platinum edition DVD/Blu-ray, and have a request. Many have complained about the previous Platinum Edition NOT having the Original Theatrical Cut, but simply a "watered down" version of the one that was released for IMAX screens without the "Human Again" sequence. hey notice the colors being different from that of the original VHS/Laserdisc version, as well as many of the theatrical trailers and tv spots.
Also, there are some scenes that were "trimmed" after the original release that some people would like to see.
If the movie was changed for the Special Edition release in any way(other than the "Human Again" sequence), if you can, we ask that you provide the movie with a direct port of the original CAPS files and the colors as they were shown in theaters during the initial release, along with what you did for the Special Edition."

Trimmed scenes? What were these trimmed scenes? Can anyone fill me in on the details?

I'm hearing stuff on this thread like them cutting out the Beast stuttering, or a bit that's been reanimated? Idk what these scenes are, but still.

[ajmrowland]

There is no doubt in my mind now that the DVD is not what it originally looked like. I tried denying it but I have come to see the light. The version on the DVD is not the OTV, end of story.

Okay, I'll put it simply, so you can understand it.

Movie made digitally gets stored in computer files.

Files are transferred onto low quality analog film.

Film gets copied to make more analog filmstocks.

Used, grainy, and worn filmstock gets transferred to VHS/ Laserdisc.

Here's what most likely happened for the DVD.

Computer Files transferred to DVD encode.

DVD encode is digitally recorded onto disc.

Basically, the difference between the VHS "original" film and the DVD is that of comparing a composite video cable(crappy little yellow one with the red and white audio ones), with a component cable(Red, Green, and Blue connections). Both the Latter have more color information and image detail than the former one.

If you still don't believe it, have fun with the one and only "correct" version that you'll ever see again.

[drfsupercenter]

ajmrowland, I think you have your facts wrong a bit.

It's not just a direct recording from CAPS.

It goes more like this:

-Film is made by hand, scanned into the computer and processed a bit, then stored in digital.
-Film is then transferred to analog and duplicated for theaters
-From that analog source (and likely a higher-end one before it deteriorated a bunch), it was transferred to VHS and laserdisc
-A few years later, they wanted to re-release it in the IMAX theater. So they took those CAPS files, brightened up the colors a bit and "fixed" some stuff they thought was wrong originally, as well as animate an entirely new song, Human Again
-Then in 2002, they took that IMAX version and converted it to a DVD.

Again, the VHS/laserdisc isn't perfect but you can't just say "Oh, the DVD is direct from digital so it's closer"... I could take a digital movie and mess with it 500 times as much as I wanted to and it would be nowhere near the original.

[ajmrowland]

ajmrowland, I think you have your facts wrong a bit.

It's not just a direct recording from CAPS.

It goes more like this:

-Film is made by hand, scanned into the computer and processed a bit, then stored in digital.
-Film is then transferred to analog and duplicated for theaters
-From that analog source (and likely a higher-end one before it deteriorated a bunch), it was transferred to VHS and laserdisc
-A few years later, they wanted to re-release it in the IMAX theater. So they took those CAPS files, brightened up the colors a bit and "fixed" some stuff they thought was wrong originally, as well as animate an entirely new song, Human Again
-Then in 2002, they took that IMAX version and converted it to a DVD.

Again, the VHS/laserdisc isn't perfect but you can't just say "Oh, the DVD is direct from digital so it's closer"... I could take a digital movie and mess with it 500 times as much as I wanted to and it would be nowhere near the original.

Okay, so maybe they DID brighten the colors a bit. I never said that it Couldn't happen. This is just so confusing. Not the process, so much as the opinions stated here. I need to get to bed.

[Disney Duster]

ajmrowland, if you don't even agree, why would you make that petition. I don't like the fact that someone who doesn't think there's anything wrong made the petition to change it. Anyway, I bolded the new changes I made when fixing some mistakes and things, could you change the petition with these?:

"Dear Walt Disney Home Entertainment, many fans(myself included) on ultimatedisney.com, along with a few other sites, (list these other sites, or consider just saying "many fans", because it's weird only naming one forum that thinks this, and they will think it's only that one forum) have been discussing the upcoming Beauty and the Beast Platinum Edition DVD/Blu-ray, and have a request. Many have complained about the previous Platinum Edition NOT having the Original Theatrical Cut, but the version of the one that was released for IMAX screens without the "Human Again" sequence. They notice the colors being different from that of their original theatrical viewing, the VHS/Laserdisc version, as well as many of the theatrical trailers and tv spots.

Also, there are some scenes that were altered after the original release, like the Beast's original stuttering the line "You wan-wanna stay in the tower?" and even re-animation of some parts, like Cogsworth asking "But Why?", and backgrounds changed to show the castle cleaned up, and any other changes from the originally released theatrical version.

If the movie was changed for the Special Edition release in any way (other than the "Human Again" sequence), if you can, we ask that you provide the movie with a direct port of the original CAPS files, or some other way provide the colors as they were shown in theaters during the initial release, along with what you did for the Special Edition. If, in any case the original CAPS files are unavailable, then we request a statement as to why they were changed in the first place."

DOES ANYONE KNOW any other changes to add to this, or KNOW ALL of the changes from the original theatrical version to the one on the DVD?

Also, drfsupercenter, Aladdin actually did have re-drawn and re-animated parts. I know of Aladdin getting re-drawn as he falls in a far away shot, and I know background characters and the kinds of thing that people usually wouldn't notice on a smaller screen, got "fixed".

[KubrickFan]

Also, there are some scenes that were altered after the original release, like the Beast's original stuttering the line "You wan-wanna stay in the tower?" and even re-animation of some parts, like Cogsworth asking 'But Why?", and backgrounds changed to show the palace cleaned up, and any other changes from the originally released theatrical version.

Those changes were addressed by the filmmakers in the audio commentary, so they don't need any fixing, I think. Also, the backgrounds are the original dirty ones in the Theatrical Cut, done with seamless branching.

[drfsupercenter]

Also, drfsupercenter, Aladdin actually did have re-drawn and re-animated parts. I know of Aladdin getting re-drawn as he falls in a far away shot, and I know background characters and the kinds of thing that people usually wouldn't notice on a smaller screen, got "fixed".

Hmm... really? I hadn't heard any complaints about it before like I have BatB and TLK. Know where there are any screenshots? As now I'm curious...

As for that petition, you can probably remove the last line about "if you don't have the CAPS files anymore"... as I'm sure they still have them. What studio just deletes its old film stock just because they didn't want to release it immediately?

[Jack Skellington]

There are a few sites devoted to petitioning. I can make one, if you want.

How does this sound?

"Dear Walt Disney Home Entertainment, many fans(myself included) on ultimatedisney.com, along with a few other sites, have been discussing the upcoming Beauty and the Beast platinum edition DVD/Blu-ray, and have a request. Many have complained about the previous Platinum Edition NOT having the Original Theatrical Cut, but simply a "watered down" version of the one that was released for IMAX screens without the "Human Again" sequence. hey notice the colors being different from that of the original VHS/Laserdisc version, as well as many of the theatrical trailers and tv spots.
Also, there are some scenes that were "trimmed" after the original release that some people would like to see.
If the movie was changed for the Special Edition release in any way(other than the "Human Again" sequence), if you can, we ask that you provide the movie with a direct port of the original CAPS files and the colors as they were shown in theaters during the initial release, along with what you did for the Special Edition. If, in any case the original CAPS files are unavailable, then we request a statement as to why they were changed in the first place."

Any Criticism on my grammar is very well appreciated.

That's very well written, you've got only one typo, I put it in bold, it says hey instead of They.

There's also one thing I want to be very clear to BVHE in that statement, and it's the significance of the dark hues to the movies, you should also mention the "come into the light" scene ,which is Belle's first encounter with the Beast to support your comment. (This is a hint that the colors should have been dark instead of what they look like now, since the Beast is plain to see.)

I'd probably be the first to sign the petition, I hope everyone here will too.

[Rudy Matt]

How does this sound?

"Dear Walt Disney Home Entertainment:

On behalf of the forum members of Ultimate Disney.com, I would like to apologize for the recent actions by others members who believe that the 1992 VHS videotape version of Beauty and the Beast represents the "true" version of the film, or the version approved of by the original creative team. These people have watched their VHS and laserdisc versions so many times they have convinced themselves that the image seen on those videotapes and laserdiscs is the true look of the movie. Incredbly, these people are asking that the 1992 transfer be made available on the upcoming Blu-Ray release. They can't wrap their minds around the fact that the trailers and tv promos were struck from a similar analog source, and they are screaming bloody murder.

Also, without any proof to back this up, they are claiming the movie was censored.

Notcie their language: "If the movie was changed for the Special Edition release in any way"....in any way? Then they list the following grocery list: "other than the "Human Again" sequence...with a direct port of the original CAPS files...and the colors as they were shown in theaters during the initial release, along with what you did for the Special Edition."

Can you make sense of all that?
Then they ask: "If, in any case the original CAPS files are unavailable, then we request a statement as to why they were changed in the first place."

Sirs, we request you ignore this petition as it is the result of paranoid reactionary emotional uninformed analog-loving nonsense."

Any Criticism on my grammar is very well appreciated.