Tangled (formerly Rapunzel) Discussion - Part II

[Disney Duster]

Don't worry folks, it's nothin' like that. The witch's garden doesn't grow rampion.

But that garden rampion was why she was named Rapunzel in the first place, as the story has always gone!

[tsom]

Don't worry folks, it's nothin' like that. The witch's garden doesn't grow rampion.

But that garden rampion was why she was named Rapunzel in the first place, as the story has always gone!

Just wait and see.

At anyrate, they don't have to stick with the fairy tale that closely. Even Walt didn't stick that closely to the Cinderella fairy tale. If he had, then Cinderella's father would be alive, Cinderella wouldn't have been born with her name, there would be one kind stepsister, and there would have been two balls.

[Disney Duster]

I admit you're right about most of that (though I did wonder, was the idea that Cinderella was called so because of the cinders and stepfamily, but the storybook and the narrator just didn't specify that, or it was a detail lost to time?), but this film is straying farther from the fairy tale than any Disney fairy tale previously...

[Margos]

....and there would have been two balls.

No! Really? You don't say! On Cinderella!? Oh, dear....

(And Duster, the fact that the movie refers to Cinderella as "as lovely as her name," and says that the kind gentleman had a young daughter named Cinderella.... I think that implies that Cinderella is a perfectly normal, but extremely beautiful name in the film version, and not a derogatory nickname.)

[Disney Duster]

Well in the Perrault fairy tale the Disney version is based on, the meaner stepsister who wears yellow (which would be Drizella) called her Cinderwench, and the nicer stepsister (which would be Anastasia) called her Cinderella, because it was a nicer sounding nickname.

So Cinderella can indeed still be a lovely name. I'm just saying it's possible the "real life story" had her called Cinderella because of her stepfamily, but the storybook writers and narrator didn't know that...you know? Well it's just a possibility!

[Margos]

Then it never would have said that the man had "a daughter named Cinderella." I think they would have specified that it was just a nicer version of a cruel nickname. And the whole story takes place inside of the storybook, Duster, you can tell from the bookends. You're freaking me out a little with this "real life story" stuff again, man.... It's a movie.

[Disney Duster]

I know. What I'm writing is hard to get.

I'm saying...it's like when we watch the movie, that's what "really happened". Notice I am putting that in quotes because I know it's still just a movie. And then, the storybook didn't know the fact that her real name didn't used to be Cinderella, but Cinderella in "real life" decided to take that name and make it her identity, so it didn't matter the people who wrote her story down didn't get her name's origin right.

Like I said, it's just a possibility.

[Margos]

Umm.... OK... if you say so...

[disneyboy20022]

..... but this film is straying farther from the fairy tale than any Disney fairy tale previously...

[Escapay]

I think what Duster is saying is that within the Disney movie Cinderella, there is the universe that contains the storybook in the opening, and a "story universe" within the storybook. In the movie universe (and presumably real life), the name "Cinderella" is a nickname. In the storybook, it's treated as the real name. A story-within-a-story kind of thing.

Or am I confusing myself now?

This is why I tend to stick away from multiverse theories. Though I certainly wouldn't mind visiting a universe where Cinderella was an occurrence in actual history, and there's museums devoted to her royal family, with the real glass slipper among one of the artifacts that a tourist can take pictures with.

It'd also be cool to have a universe where everything looks like a Disney cartoon and we sing about how it's a wonderful day for pie.

albert

[Margos]

Well, to me, it's always seemed perfectly clear that Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty, Pinocchio, Enchanted, The Many Adventures of Winnie-the-Pooh, and the two parts of The Adventures of Ichabod and Mr. Toad are really happening, but at the same time, are really more like books coming to life. Because they are bookended with books, it seems as though it is like reading the book, only cooler, because they are moving drawings! Like, they are not books about real happenings, but rather, the movie is the contents of the real book. Does that make sense? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

[Escapay]

Like, they are not books about real happenings, but rather, the movie is the contents of the real book. Does that make sense? I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

Hmm...

The movie is a universe of its own.

The book is within the movie.

The events that unfold in the book (what we see in the movie when the book opens and closes) are events within the book universe.

They are not "real" to the movie universe.

It's like if I wrote down on a sheet of paper "I went to the store and bought a quart of milk, a dozen eggs, and a handgun." Within the universe I created on that paper, I did indeed go to the store and buy a quart of milk, a dozen eggs, and a handgun. But in my own universe, I did not go to the store to buy a quart of milk, a dozen eggs, or a handgun. I bought a gallon of milk, a dozen eggs, and a tazer. Thus, the paper universe is fiction, the real universe is real. At least, as far as people who read those sentences know. They could be a complete lie and I might have bought a 2-litre diet coke, some bonbons, and a paring knife.

However, my experiences within the real universe may in fact be a work of fiction inside the mind of someone in the actual real universe. We all may simply be a figment of their imagination. I expect Tommy Westphall to snap out of it anytime now, put down the snowglobe, and wash his hands for dinner.

Thus, when we watch one of the movies you mentioned and the book opens, the events that we see are contained solely in that "book universe", and not in the "movie universe" that the book resides in (even if the book itself is a movie we're watching).

albert (who does not mean a single word in this post, nor does he take any of it seriously, as he was just having fun. It's a movie, it's already fiction anyway.)

[Neal]

It'd also be cool to have a universe where everything looks like a Disney cartoon and we sing about how it's a wonderful day for pie.

If we were on Facebook right now... (perhaps, in some other dimension-verse, we are)

... I would "like" this for the perfect reference usage!

[disneyboy20022]

It'd also be cool to have a universe where everything looks like a Disney cartoon and we sing about how it's a wonderful day for pie.

If we were on Facebook right now... (perhaps, in some other dimension-verse, we are)

... I would "like" this for the perfect reference usage!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXtTtf5lcYo

[Neal]

That never gets old! (except for the unfortunate anti-semite crack...)

[Escapay]

I was glad someone picked up on that intentional reference. It's probably my favorite "Family Guy" parody (up there with their "Law & Order" opening credits spoof and the live-action scene with Patrick Duffy and Victoria Principal as Bobby and Pamela from "Dallas").

albert

[Polizzi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXtTtf5lcYo

It's A Wonderful Day for Pie (in C Major)



Peter Griffin: (Singing.) It's a wonderful day for pie. You can ask all the birds in the sky. And they'll tell you real sweet, with a musical tweet.

Quagmire as a Bird: (Singing.) It's a wonderful day for pie.

Chris and Meg Griffin (as Ursala from Disney's, "The Little Mermaid") : (Singing in children voices besides their own.) For pie.

Quagmire as a Bird: (Singing.) For pie.

Lois Griffin: (Singing.) For pie.

Joe Swanson as a Coffee Pot: (Singing.) For pie.

Stewie Griffin: (Talking to Brian Griffin.) This is wonderful Brian. Oh let's live in this universe.

Brian Griffin: (Talking to Stewie Griffin while pouring Joe Swanson as a coffee pot in the mug for himself.) Gosh it's pretty intoxicating, isn't it?

Stweie Griffin: (Talking to Brian Griffin.) I want to hear more music about pie.

Peter Griffin: (Picks up Stewie Griffin and sings.) It's a wonderful day for pie.

Cleveland Brown as a Skunk: (Singing as he enters the Griffin cottage.) And it smells a lot better than I.

Joe Swanson as a Coffee Pot: (Laughs at Cleveland Brown while being held by Brian Griffin.)

Adam West: (Comes out from his mouse hole inside the Griffin cottage, and sings.) Everyone in the house.

Peter Griffin: (Faces the audience while pointing at Adam West as he sings.) In this Adam West mouse.

Chris Griffin: (Eating honey from the bee hive.)

Singing Bees: (Singing while presenting Chris Griffin eating honey.) The bees making honey.

Tom Tucker as a Rabbit: (Singing as he comes out from his rabbit hole outside of the Griffin cottage.) Here's Tom Tucker Bunny.

Everybody: (Singing.) We all seem with glee. Cause we all agree. It's a wonderful, wonderful day..., for..., pie!

Herbert as a Witch in a Black Cloak: (Asks everyone in the Griffin cottage while observing the poison apple upon his left hand.) You wanna nice shiny red apple to put in that pie?

Everybody: (Shouts at Herbert as a witch in a black cloak with neglect.) NO! (They throw pies at him.)

[tsom]

I used to wish that Disney would print the storybooks used in their films and it would contain the movies' story as told in the film. That would be awesome!

I had no idea Oliver & Company was baed on Oliver Twist??? Even though I don't think I've ever seen it...

That would be cool if Cinderella's universe were real and there really was a museum with an exhibit of the royal family and her glass slipper as a monument to history.

That's my favorite Family Guy segment!

My Disney teacher always made fun of Cinderella's name. She used to say "In the movie, they say how lovely her name is, while in actuality, they are calling her Dirt Face". Hahaha.

Hope you all had a lovely day!! Enjoy your Wednesday!

[estefan]

Thank you, Polizzi, we don't need a transcript, sorry.

In regards to The Emperor's New Groove, didn't that start off as a spin on The Prince and the Pauper? Of course, after Kingdom of the Sun was changed about a lot by Mark Dindal, they thought of this quirky new title. But, yeah, unlike the other titles mentioned, I think they just took the title for inspiration and not anything else.

[Neal]

Yeah, it began as a new Prince and the Pauper.