Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker

[Farerb]

I haven't read the leaks, but I read what people said about the film.
Basically that Rey is Palpatine's granddaughter. Kylo dies and Rey ends up alone even though that's not the future she wanted at the beginning, with that old lady...
So overall it sounds bleak and very nihilistic and pretty much retcons TLJ, which I loved.

[JeanGreyForever]

As someone who's fav Star Wars film so far was TLJ, I don't have too many issues with the actual plot. I've heard mixed stuff from TLJ fans because critics who loved it are eviscerating this film and so are some fans but other fans think the two films are perfect complements.

Yes, Rey turns out to be Palpatine's granddaughter but she was still a nobody in the sense that her parents were nobodies so that wasn't a complete lie (it's like the certain point of view from ROTJ). And I like the thematic parallel that this trilogy focuses on the grandchildren of the two main villains of the saga. Rey comes from the ultimate evil but she still chooses good despite the inclination towards the dark. Meanwhile, Ben is from a family of good, yet he turns to the dark even as he feels the pull to the light. It's essentially the sins of the father, or grandfather, in this case.

The ending I think is what most people are hung up about for the reasons you said, including me. I don't want Ben to die and I just hope in a future film they bring him back, although I don't want to wait 20-30 years for Episode X. It's a real waste of the character who is arguably the most popular from the ST and isn't a hopeful or optimistic message at all like JJ said. And Rey being alone for the rest of her life is just shocking especially since that scene with the old lady on Jakku from TFA comes from a JJ Abrams film yet he still went with this ending.

Considering that they refused to kill of Elsa, I was hoping they would do the same for Kylo since both are two of the most popular characters to come from Disney this decade. And I've heard that children are really upset and bawling from the ending, much like in the Frozen test screenings over the summer.

[DisneyJedi]

Please please PLEASE tell me time travel isn’t involved!! If it’s a spoiler, then don’t tell me.

[JeanGreyForever]

Don't worry, no time travel involved. This isn't Endgame.

[DisneyJedi]

Okay, that’s a relief. But I’m still worried about the overall product and how it’ll turn out. Is it... is it really that awful?

[JeanGreyForever]

What were your opinions of TFA and TLJ? That might influence your stance on this film.

I haven't seen it yet (will see it tomorrow) but the main complaints I've heard are about the pacing of the film. The first act crams a lot as exposition and people have likened it to a video game where you have to keep fulfilling mission objectives. However, someone else said that the pacing is similar to TFA (or any JJ Abrams film) so if you're fine with that, this isn't really that different. And the rest of the film, especially the final act, is getting a lot of praise and is totally worth it.

Some other "complaints" are about the abundance of fanservice but that's par for the course for any Star Wars film. Forget the Sequel Trilogy, the Prequel Trilogy, especially Revenge of the Sith was riddled with fanservice.

[Mooky]

I saw it last night and thought it was great. Easily my favorite of the new trilogy. It was fun, exhilarating and emotionally rewarding. It's closer in tone to TFA than o TLJ. A LOT of fan service. Yes, there are some exposition and pacing issues (it's basically a non-stop ride, the movie never stops), but it's not as convoluted or complicated as people are saying it is. The new cast finally does things together, there is a genuine connection between all of them, and Finn is not a bumbling idiot as before. And Daisy Ridley is amazing. People say it's a big FU to TLJ and that it retcons it, but I didn't really see it that way. It more or less builds upon what was done in TLJ (it also somewhat legitimizes the Reylo ship), so I wouldn't say the movie is completely ashamed of what came before.

[Kyle]

I would actually consider the no time travel thing a bit of a spoiler, as I was fully expecting it. Oh well, I gotta stay offline for a while I guess.

[JeanGreyForever]

I saw it last night and thought it was great. Easily my favorite of the new trilogy. It was fun, exhilarating and emotionally rewarding. It's closer in tone to TFA than o TLJ. A LOT of fan service. Yes, there are some exposition and pacing issues (it's basically a non-stop ride, the movie never stops), but it's not as convoluted or complicated as people are saying it is. The new cast finally does things together, there is a genuine connection between all of them, and Finn is not a bumbling idiot as before. And Daisy Ridley is amazing. People say it's a big FU to TLJ and that it retcons it, but I didn't really see it that way. It more or less builds upon what was done in TLJ (it also somewhat legitimizes the Reylo ship), so I wouldn't say the movie is completely ashamed of what came before.

I'm so glad to hear that somebody liked the film. After the reviews from the critics and the toxic fans freaking out online about the Sequel Trilogy in general, it's been difficult to find positive reactions and the ones that are out there get flushed out quickly by the haters.

I think it more than somewhat legitimizes Reylo...it's full-on canon Reylo and in the lore of the film, they're even soulmates! Can I ask what your thoughts were on the death of Ben? That's the only thing that's been bothering me so far and I'm really curious as to whether you were expecting it or not, felt it was justified or necessary for the story's conclusion, and what audience reactions in your theater to it were like.

I would actually consider the no time travel thing a bit of a spoiler, as I was fully expecting it. Oh well, I gotta stay offline for a while I guess.

I'm sorry for not spoiler tagging that then or not messaging DisneyJedi directly in case others didn't want to hear that. I didn't think it was a major spoiler because there's nothing in the marketing of the film to suggest time travel and time travel isn't something that's really been done in Star Wars before. Unlike in Marvel, where almost every major event features time travel and some non-MCU Marvel films have heavily featured time travel (ex. Days of Future Past), so it seemed a given for the fans that Endgame would end that way.

And yes, I would recommend staying offline because I've seen many spoilers being posted in non-spoiler threads and even in random or unrelated to Star Wars websites and articles. Some spoilers were trending on Twitter yesterday as well. Also avoid Burger King if you live in Germany.

[Mooky]

I'm so glad to hear that somebody liked the film. After the reviews from the critics and the toxic fans freaking out online about the Sequel Trilogy in general, it's been difficult to find positive reactions and the ones that are out there get flushed out quickly by the haters.

I think it more than somewhat legitimizes Reylo...it's full-on canon Reylo and in the lore of the film, they're even soulmates! Can I ask what your thoughts were on the death of Ben? That's the only thing that's been bothering me so far and I'm really curious as to whether you were expecting it or not, felt it was justified or necessary for the story's conclusion, and what audience reactions in your theater to it were like.

I was fine with it. I expected him to die one way or another, and would have hated it if he reformed and stayed alive. There's just a really long path of death, killings and destruction behind him for me to accept him as one of the good guys. Then again, I'm not a fan of redeemed villains in general, murderers in particular, corrupted by external forces or not. I'm glad he regained some of his humanity in the end, but I definitely didn't expect him to live after that talk with the memory/ghost of Han Solo. Right then I knew he'd either help Rey in her battle and die fighting or sacrifice himself to save her. I thought it was a good, logical conclusion to his story arc.

The theater was packed full, but there were only a few sighs when he died. However, there was a lot of clapping when the movie ended, and my countrymen don't do that often or ever lol. I did hear some people say the movie was terrible and awful, so not everyone liked it obviously.

[JeanGreyForever]

Thank you for your input!

What did you think about Ben's lack of appearance as a force ghost at the end with Luke and Leia? I find that omission odd unless it was deliberately done to bring him back to life somewhere down the line.

I'm glad to hear that the film got a lot of applause especially in a country where that isn't typical. That means at least that the majority didn't just like it but must have loved it to provoke such a reaction. There are always some people who will dislike a film so the grumbling of others is pretty normal as well.

Also quick question about the scene where Rey channels all the spirits of the previous Jedi to defeat Palpatine. I know Luke's voice is one of the prominent ones heard but is Leia's voice heard too? In the trailer, Luke says "May the force be with you..." and Leia finishes it by saying "..always" so I'm curious if that is how it goes in the final film.

[Farerb]

In my opinion Ben dying is just a repeat of the way Vader died. Which ultimately makes TFA and TRoS sort of "remakes" (I know it's not exactly but a general idea) of better made films from 40 years ago. Seems like Disney's style these days.

[Mooky]

Thank you for your input!

You're welcome

What did you think about Ben's lack of appearance as a force ghost at the end with Luke and Leia? I find that omission odd unless it was deliberately done to bring him back to life somewhere down the line.

Actually, I didn't think anything of it last night, but now that you mention it, it does seem strange he wasn't included alongside Luke and Leia. Perhaps he was beyond redemption to be absorbed into the Force after his death? Or maybe J.J. Abrams just wanted to focus on the people who made the most impact on Rey/trained her?

I'm glad to hear that the film got a lot of applause especially in a country where that isn't typical. That means at least that the majority didn't just like it but must have loved it to provoke such a reaction. There are always some people who will dislike a film so the grumbling of others is pretty normal as well.

Definitely. I've also been reading reactions on a local online forum and the majority of them seem to be negative so far, and mostly concerned with how Disney (badly) dealt with the sequel trilogy and the franchise in general. I don't know, when people have preconceived notions of how something should be (especially something as beloved as Star Wars, with decades of history, hype and growing expectations), they're not really open to changes and always measure something up to their own vision, so that's where all that frustration and negativity comes from.

Personally, I don't think they are a perfect set of movies, there have been quite a few missteps, and there hasn't been a cohesive vision for the three. (On the other hand, there was a singular vision on the prequels, yet I often found them boring.) I too would have preferred more originality (enough with the Death Stars already, and like farerb said, they are essentially remakes of ANH and RotJ), better world-building, and more creative risks, but this is the best we could have gotten considering Disney likes to play it safe. And let's not pretend the OT didn't suffer from some of the same issues like the ST. But I was entertained and enjoyed all three to varying degrees, and that's what matters to me.

Also quick question about the scene where Rey channels all the spirits of the previous Jedi to defeat Palpatine. I know Luke's voice is one of the prominent ones heard but is Leia's voice heard too? In the trailer, Luke says "May the force be with you..." and Leia finishes it by saying "..always" so I'm curious if that is how it goes in the final film.

Oh, there were so many voices. I believe the first one we hear is Obi-Wan saying "Rey", and I suddenly got so obsessed trying to figure out if it was Ewan McGregor or they used a soundbite of Alec Guinness's voice again, to pay attention to all the others lol. There was definitely Luke, definitely Yoda, so I'm gonna say Leia was there too. Maybe it was my ears playing tricks on me, but I thought I heard more female voices than just Leia's. Perhaps they used some of the female characters from Clone Wars -- I've never watched the show so I didn't recognize them. I also thought I heard Hayden Christensen's but I'm not sure if it really was Anakin.

[DisneyJedi]

It’s good to know you liked it, Mooky. I just can’t comprehend why most of the Internet has to be so negative about anything SW that isn’t the original (pre-special edition) trilogy or the Expanded Universe. And don’t even get me started on the people who claim to be fans and yet harass the cast and crew of the newer films over social media. Those people worked hard to make these movies and the consumers are acting like over-the-top entitled brats who have the whole “Do it OUR way or don’t do it at all” mindset.

[Farerb]

Gonna watch it in an hour and I'm dreading it. I don't want to feel like I felt with Game of Thrones.

[Farerb]

I saw the film and I didn't like it. To me Star Wars was always fun adventure movies but kind of that's it and I only got really invested with TLJ, so it was disheartening to me that TRoS was not really a fitting continuation. I don't want to be one of these fans so I'm just gonna let it be and I hope you enjoy the film.

[JeanGreyForever]

What did you think about Ben's lack of appearance as a force ghost at the end with Luke and Leia? I find that omission odd unless it was deliberately done to bring him back to life somewhere down the line.

Actually, I didn't think anything of it last night, but now that you mention it, it does seem strange he wasn't included alongside Luke and Leia. Perhaps he was beyond redemption to be absorbed into the Force after his death? Or maybe J.J. Abrams just wanted to focus on the people who made the most impact on Rey/trained her?

I doubt he was beyond redemption because Anakin became a force ghost and found redemption and he was literally a villain for more than two decades and killed countless people. The very day he was named Darth Vader, he slaughtered children and that wasn't even the first time he had done that. I imagine that after the film has been out a while, we'll see some sort of response from JJ as to why he made that decision because it couldn't have been an oversight. I'm thinking it's meant to suggest that they have more plans for the character and making him a force ghost would have negated those plans.

I'm glad to hear that the film got a lot of applause especially in a country where that isn't typical. That means at least that the majority didn't just like it but must have loved it to provoke such a reaction. There are always some people who will dislike a film so the grumbling of others is pretty normal as well.

Definitely. I've also been reading reactions on a local online forum and the majority of them seem to be negative so far, and mostly concerned with how Disney (badly) dealt with the sequel trilogy and the franchise in general. I don't know, when people have preconceived notions of how something should be (especially something as beloved as Star Wars, with decades of history, hype and growing expectations), they're not really open to changes and always measure something up to their own vision, so that's where all that frustration and negativity comes from.

Personally, I don't think they are a perfect set of movies, there have been quite a few missteps, and there hasn't been a cohesive vision for the three. (On the other hand, there was a singular vision on the prequels, yet I often found them boring.) I too would have preferred more originality (enough with the Death Stars already, and like farerb said, they are essentially remakes of ANH and RotJ), better world-building, and more creative risks, but this is the best we could have gotten considering Disney likes to play it safe. And let's not pretend the OT didn't suffer from some of the same issues like the ST. But I was entertained and enjoyed all three to varying degrees, and that's what matters to me.

That type of discourse has been par for the course for the last few years but it's been especially bad the past few days. Even places like Reddit, where you would generally find supporters of the films has turned into a cesspool. At least with this film, there is no new Death Star and Death Star tech is instead adapted to the Star Destroyers so that's still a somewhat new concept than Death Star II or Starkiller Base. Most fans are blind to the faults of the OT and how much of what the ST is being criticized for, originated there. And frankly, there is a lot of sexism because you can't go anywhere without hearing Rey called a Mary Sue (nevermind some of the stuff Luke, Anakin, and even Baby Yoda have accomplished without being branded by fans) or being told that the trilogy should have centered on Kylo or even Finn instead of her. Rose is another character denigrated constantly online and it really bothers me that JJ caved in to the haters and sidelined her this time around. He let the toxic fans win and granted credibility to their hate.

How would you rank the overall nine Skywalker Saga films or the three trilogies?

Also quick question about the scene where Rey channels all the spirits of the previous Jedi to defeat Palpatine. I know Luke's voice is one of the prominent ones heard but is Leia's voice heard too? In the trailer, Luke says "May the force be with you..." and Leia finishes it by saying "..always" so I'm curious if that is how it goes in the final film.

Oh, there were so many voices. I believe the first one we hear is Obi-Wan saying "Rey", and I suddenly got so obsessed trying to figure out if it was Ewan McGregor or they used a soundbite of Alec Guinness's voice again, to pay attention to all the others lol. There was definitely Luke, definitely Yoda, so I'm gonna say Leia was there too. Maybe it was my ears playing tricks on me, but I thought I heard more female voices than just Leia's. Perhaps they used some of the female characters from Clone Wars -- I've never watched the show so I didn't recognize them. I also thought I heard Hayden Christensen's but I'm not sure if it really was Anakin.

Apparently in the credits, both Ewan McGregor and Alec Guinness are credited. I think it's a case like in TFA where we hear both voices during Rey's vision. There were more female voices that come from the Clone Wars TV series (many of whom appeared in the films but were never voiced). Anakin's voice was also there and yes, he was voiced by Hayden. It's interesting because some people didn't recognize his voice at all and didn't even realize Anakin was there while others claim that his voice is the most prominent. The full list of Jedi characters who speak at the end are given their own special spot in the credits. It includes Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon Jinn, Mace Windu, Ahsoka Tanko, Kanan Jarrus, Luminara Undulu, Adi Gallia (whose name is misspelled lol), and Aayla Secura.

It’s good to know you liked it, Mooky. I just can’t comprehend why most of the Internet has to be so negative about anything SW that isn’t the original (pre-special edition) trilogy or the Expanded Universe. And don’t even get me started on the people who claim to be fans and yet harass the cast and crew of the newer films over social media. Those people worked hard to make these movies and the consumers are acting like over-the-top entitled brats who have the whole “Do it OUR way or don’t do it at all” mindset.

Even at the London premiere, there were people booing and Daisy Ridley even commented on it in one of her interviews because they wouldn't stop. Most of the EU was garbage although the Sequel Trilogy has always reminded me of Dark Empire which is fine because I loved Dark Empire.

Gonna watch it in an hour and I'm dreading it. I don't want to feel like I felt with Game of Thrones.

I've never seen Game of Thrones but a lot of people have been making comparisons with Ben and Dany's characters and how both are discarded at the end despite being the most popular characters who so many fans saw themselves in.

[JeanGreyForever]

I saw the film and I didn't like it. To me Star Wars was always fun adventure movies but kind of that's it and I only got really invested with TLJ, so it was disheartening to me that TRoS was not really a fitting continuation. I don't want to be one of these fans so I'm just gonna let it be and I hope you enjoy the film.

I'm sorry to hear that. In what ways did you feel TROS didn't build from TLJ? Did you feel like it was Game of Thrones all over again?

[Farerb]

I've never seen Game of Thrones but a lot of people have been making comparisons with Ben and Dany's characters and how both are discarded at the end despite being the most popular characters who so many fans saw themselves in.

Game of Thrones was worse for me, thankfully. I don't think I hated TRoS, just really disliked it.

[Farerb]

I saw the film and I didn't like it. To me Star Wars was always fun adventure movies but kind of that's it and I only got really invested with TLJ, so it was disheartening to me that TRoS was not really a fitting continuation. I don't want to be one of these fans so I'm just gonna let it be and I hope you enjoy the film.

I'm sorry to hear that. In what ways did you feel TROS didn't build from TLJ? Did you feel like it was Game of Thrones all over again?

I felt the resistance was in much better position than it was at the end of episode 8. I thought it was implausible that people rose up for Landau but not for freaking Princess Leia.

I think the big bad should be forsehadowed and set up before the final film (obviously that's not what the original plan was), I also didn't like Rey Palpatine. I like the idea that she was a nobody back in TLJ, cause it complimented Ben which came from a line of both heroes and villains.

Rose and Rose and Finn's relationship were sidelined.

Rey ends up alone on Luke's home as if finding where she belongs wasn't her storyline.

Snoke was just made up by Palpatine.

I didn't understand what was the point of the First Order if Palpatine built an entirely different army.

I don't know, overall I felt like this part was really disjointed from both TFA and TLJ which flowed really well together IMO. This film just throws everything away, reintroduce Palpatine (and kind of acts like he was always a thing in this trilogy) and tells us a completely different story.