Why do people hate Princess and the Frog so much?

[DisneyJedi]

Don't get me wrong, I thought the music in Tangled was pretty damn good. I especially loved 'I See The Light' (which SHOULD have taken home the gold instead of a certain TS3 song *cough*RIGGED*coughcough*). However, it just wasn't Alan's best work seeing as how whenever I hear his name, I usually think dynamic scores like with The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, etc. Heck, even his work on Enchanted seems stronger by comparison.

My point is, people claim that Princess and the Frog has a ton of flaws that make it seem "unwatchable" and yet they defend Tangled just because it's "perfect" when it's really the furthest thing from. I'll admit that Princess and the Frog has its flaws, but that doesn't mean it's a bad movie, same with Tangled.

[estefan]

I actually really like the music in Tangled. I just went with the first thing that popped into my head to use as an example in my discussion of personalising opinions.

[blackcauldron85]

Generic?! Each one is unique and beautiful! And one was Germanic, two were French, one was Danish or Meditteranean or both, and one was Middle Eastern!

No, I agree that each one is unique and beautiful, but I was meaning that...1920s New Orleans. A distinct time and a real place. Like you said, "one was Danish or Meditteranean or both"...and I love the looks of the other Princess movie environments, and I'm not saying that every Disney movie needs to be set in a real find-on-a-map place and time, not at all, but I like the 1920s New Orleans setting, from the historical food to the clothes, and even the fact that Tiana is an African American woman working hard for her goal in the 1920s South.

Well at first Naveen was excited for the restaraunt to happen and then Tiana smugly with attitude hands him a hammer and he frowns. Poor guy!

But he loves Tiana, so he'll get over it.

I love "When Will My Life Begin" and find it Disneyesque! It doesn't stink at all! I wonder why people don't like it.

I completely agree. It's actually become one of my all-time favorite Disney songs. I can really relate to Rapunzel in it, wanting so much out of life and never getting anywhere, every day is the same and you're just waiting for something new!

Another thing I love about TPATF is the artistic and creative visuals they produced...

This is especially evident in the musical numbers though.

Yes, I totally agree with this. (And I agree with this for Wreck-It Ralph, too...) I think it's visually stunning when the animation style changes...I personally think for TP&tF it's even more stunning since it's all hand-drawn.

while I know the "Gonna Take You There" scene gets a lot of flack, I think it's important in showing the majesty of the swamp and showcasing the fun, friendly nature of Ray. I remember just being absolutely awed when I saw the fireflies lighting up the swamp in theatres.

I completely agree. Taken as a separate entity, the song isn't the best Disney song, not at all, but the scene is very beautiful and feels so magical.

The [sidekick animals] in Pocahontas are just...there.

They're much-needed comic relief, in addition to being adorable, and I think that it speaks volumes when, at the end, Meeko & Percy are friends! It reinforces the idea that just because people (and animals!) are different doesn't mean that they can't be friends. (Pocahontas is one of my favorites just like TP&tF is...I need to defend it, too! )

[Disney Duster]

I see blackcauldron, well, as long as you don't think those environments are generic and yes, Naveen would work to help Tiana out of love.

I just now listened to "Gonna Take You There" and before I totally thought that song was called "Goin' Down the Bayou". I liked that part of the song. One of the few bits I remembered from the film, but I actually remembered the tune a little differently, so...I guess it was half memorable.

[blackcauldron85]

I just now listened to "Gonna Take You There" and before I totally thought that song was called "Goin' Down the Bayou".

For some reason, I always call it that!

[Big One]

Personally, I'm a little agitated that when it comes to PatF vs. Tangled discussions, they dismiss the former for having its flaws and yet they praise the supposedly "perfect" Tangled when it really isn't a flawless film either.

There's no such thing as a flawless film. It's all about how the film carries and executes everything, including making up for it's flaws or hiding them, that really matters. PatF didn't hide it's flaws of unnecessary comic relief, and on top of that it didn't hide the fact that the comic relief was largely unfunny and hurt the flow of the story.

[estefan]

Personally, I'm a little agitated that when it comes to PatF vs. Tangled discussions, they dismiss the former for having its flaws and yet they praise the supposedly "perfect" Tangled when it really isn't a flawless film either.

There's no such thing as a flawless film. It's all about how the film carries and executes everything, including making up for it's flaws or hiding them, that really matters. PatF didn't hide it's flaws of unnecessary comic relief, and on top of that it didn't hide the fact that the comic relief was largely unfunny and hurt the flow of the story.

I honestly find that more aggravating than the criticisms given to the film (none of which I have any problem with, as they're pretty valid from what I've read on this thread so far, even if I mostly disagree with all of them).

But, saying the comic relief was not funny is your (perfectly valid) opinion, not a fact. I said this on the previous page, but it's important to word your opinion where it sounds like you're giving an opinion, rather than stating it as a fact, when clearly not. You're free to dislike the comic relief character or how the story is structured, but don't say those elements are facts. I don't care for Atlantis, but you won't hear me say "It's a fact that movie is a bore with uninteresting characters and an obvious plot." No, I say "Atlantis bored me, I found the characters uninteresting and felt the plot was obvious and stale." Makes all of the difference.

[DisneyEra]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendel ... ne-screen/

Disney attempted to reignite the Disney animation brand, and 2D hand-drawn animation, in the wake of Pixar and Dreamworks’ domination in late 2009 with The Princess and the Frog. Since it was being sold as an old-school Disney cartoon, they attempted the old-school release pattern. But it (I’ve long argued) backfired horribly. The film sat on two screens over Thanksgiving weekend and racked up a terrific $393k and $373k per-screen figure respectively over those two weekends. It also left the film unreachable for the countless families who would have flocked to it over Thanksgiving weekend, with the vast majority of the film’s publicity occurring during that period when it was unable to actually be seen.

By the time the film debuted in mid-December, there was no buzz and the world had moved on to Avatar‘s impending debut and pre-release raves. Competition with Disney’s early-November release A Christmas Carol aside, I still argue to this day that The Princess and the Frog would have performed far better both on opening weekend ($24 million) and overall ($104m domestic, $267m worldwide, no small sum) had it gone wide on Thanksgiving. Disney didn’t make the same mistake twice, with Tangled dropping in wide release over Thanksgiving weekend to the tune of $68 million over the long holiday. Wreck-It-Ralph opened wide in early November 2012 and went without the Disney platform strategy for an opening weekend gross of $49m.

Anyone agree with this?

[TsWade2]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendel ... ne-screen/

Disney attempted to reignite the Disney animation brand, and 2D hand-drawn animation, in the wake of Pixar and Dreamworks’ domination in late 2009 with The Princess and the Frog. Since it was being sold as an old-school Disney cartoon, they attempted the old-school release pattern. But it (I’ve long argued) backfired horribly. The film sat on two screens over Thanksgiving weekend and racked up a terrific $393k and $373k per-screen figure respectively over those two weekends. It also left the film unreachable for the countless families who would have flocked to it over Thanksgiving weekend, with the vast majority of the film’s publicity occurring during that period when it was unable to actually be seen.

By the time the film debuted in mid-December, there was no buzz and the world had moved on to Avatar‘s impending debut and pre-release raves. Competition with Disney’s early-November release A Christmas Carol aside, I still argue to this day that The Princess and the Frog would have performed far better both on opening weekend ($24 million) and overall ($104m domestic, $267m worldwide, no small sum) had it gone wide on Thanksgiving. Disney didn’t make the same mistake twice, with Tangled dropping in wide release over Thanksgiving weekend to the tune of $68 million over the long holiday. Wreck-It-Ralph opened wide in early November 2012 and went without the Disney platform strategy for an opening weekend gross of $49m.

Anyone agree with this?

Um..........YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

[Mooky]

After watching the film again over the holidays, I can safely say that for me its rewatchability factor is much higher than that of any DAC that came after it. And not only that, but multiple viewings have made me appreciate the film, the characters and the setting even more than before, and inspired me to actually visit New Orleans during Mardi Gras. So come February you know where to find me

[carolinakid]

I read that many people were upset that Naveen was not black enough. That he was basically an olive skinned man with Caucasian features or some such nonsense. That stuff always bores me!

And I know folks were upset with the original name Maddie because they said it sounded like Mammy. WTF????? So Disney used a made up "black sounding" name like Tiana. Like I said, I pay very little attention to racist piffle. I like the film!

[sunhuntin]

i wasnt aware naveen was meant to be black. he always said "prince of maldonia", where ever that is meant to be? so it makes sense he isnt black, and also explains his accent [which is to die for!]

[Lady Cluck]

After watching the film again over the holidays, I can safely say that for me its rewatchability factor is much higher than that of any DAC that came after it. And not only that, but multiple viewings have made me appreciate the film, the characters and the setting even more than before, and inspired me to actually visit New Orleans during Mardi Gras. So come February you know where to find me

I couldn't agree more! The characters are vibrant and fun and it's a celebration of a REAL location and culture, at least in a Disneyfied way. Far superior to bland, manufactured, contrived, cotton candy Tangled.

I thought Naveen's race was rather ambiguous which is fine and reflective of our growing multiracial culture. Some people don't want to admit that I guess.

[Mooky]

The characters are vibrant and fun and it's a celebration of a REAL location and culture, at least in a Disneyfied way. Far superior to bland, manufactured, contrived, cotton candy Tangled.

That's just one of the things I disliked about Tangled -- a hodgepodge of cultural and period aesthetics that clashed with one another, from names to architecture. Every other Disney fairytale film felt representative of a singular culture -- even those that had no definitive counterpart in a real-life location (The Little Mermaid, for example, gave a very palpable sense of a Mediterranean setting, and even Aladdin's Middle-Eastern and Indian influences were complimentary to each other). In Tangled, on the other hand, it looked more like it was a change for the sake of change (much like the movie's prologue) than something done out of artistic merits.

I thought Naveen's race was rather ambiguous which is fine and reflective of our growing multiracial culture. Some people don't want to admit that I guess.

Well, you could look at it that way, but I always thought it was done to shut the PC crowd down. The original casting call for PatF called for a European and what felt like a very 'white looking/sounding' prince:

Prince Harry - A gregarious, fun-loving European Prince, in his early twenties. A young Cary Grant type.

Fueled by the whole 'Maddie/Mammy' controversy, I guess the original artistic intention was compromised to allow the film some breathing room.

[unprincess]

That's just one of the things I disliked about Tangled -- a hodgepodge of cultural and period aesthetics that clashed with one another, from names to architecture. Every other Disney fairytale film felt representative of a singular culture -- even those that had no definitive counterpart in a real-life location (

yeah, it reminded me of those generic fairytale kingdoms in those CGI Barbie movies.

[MeerkatKombat]

That's just one of the things I disliked about Tangled -- a hodgepodge of cultural and period aesthetics that clashed with one another, from names to architecture. Every other Disney fairytale film felt representative of a singular culture -- even those that had no definitive counterpart in a real-life location (

yeah, it reminded me of those generic fairytale kingdoms in those CGI Barbie movies.

I've never actually really thought about it before but yes, thinking about it, the setting of Tangled does feel generic. Too clean and pretty and bland because of it. No where for hostility to really happen.
Despite certain character problems I have with PatF (and they are less upon re-watching the film), I really got the sense of being somewhere that had a grounding in reality. You could see inspiration and influences and there is none of that in Tangled. I couldn't really give a guess as to where in the world Tangled takes place or what century it is meant to have taken place.

I don't hate Princess and the Frog. Really enjoyed it at the cinema and don't think it could be called a bad film. Musically, I prefer PatF to Tangled. I won't go into my problem with the Tangled soundtrack. I think my main problem was with the supporting characters. They never really grew on me apart from Lottie even with multiple viewings. I didn't watch it for ages, but watched it a couple of months ago and Ray annoyed me less than usual.

[Disney Duster]

Prince Naveen may have originally been meant to be European...but when you look at his skin (olive) and features (like a wide nose) and listen to his accent, it's obvious he is more like an Indian or Latin prince. He is at least obviously not supposed to be black or white.

[carolinakid]

When you see Naveen portrayed in the parks he usually looks Latino and I even saw a Naveen at the Magic Kingdom that I would guess was Filipino. They all are definitely VERY handsome, imo.

[thedisneyspirit]

I saw the movie again, and I can see why most people don't really care for it. The message is kinda phoned in and I imagine lots of kids would find boring/unrelatable the message of "work hard" and such. Most parents could find it a little too idealistic. And that goes along with what Duster said previously, that Tiana's character is so tied to the message of the film that it leaves little else for her to do. I don't feel she's that interested in Naveen, for instance. That and the stuff that happens once they're frogs is nowhere near as interesting as the human stuff.

Tangled and Frozen are so-so. The story and characters in Tangled are more interesting to me but the music in Frozen is superior. Frozen has interesting ideas and characters in Elsa and Hans but the focus is on Kristoff and Anna who are pretty much Rapunzel/Eugene x100. Hans is a better villain than Gothel is but it is true that it feels his villainy is kinda random. At times Frozen feels kinda derivative of Tangled, but at the same time Tangled is derivative of other Disney films.

Soo...I dunno, let's leave it at a tie.

[Farerb]

I saw the movie again, and I can see why most people don't really care for it. The message is kinda phoned in and I imagine lots of kids would find boring/unrelatable the message of "work hard" and such. Most parents could find it a little too idealistic. And that goes along with what Duster said previously, that Tiana's character is so tied to the message of the film that it leaves little else for her to do. I don't feel she's that interested in Naveen, for instance. That and the stuff that happens once they're frogs is nowhere near as interesting as the human stuff.

Tangled and Frozen are so-so. The story and characters in Tangled are more interesting to me but the music in Frozen is superior. Frozen has interesting ideas and characters in Elsa and Hans but the focus is on Kristoff and Anna who are pretty much Rapunzel/Eugene x100. Hans is a better villain than Gothel is but it is true that it feels his villainy is kinda random. At times Frozen feels kinda derivative of Tangled, but at the same time Tangled is derivative of other Disney films.

Soo...I dunno, let's leave it at a tie.

I agree. I think the The Princess and the Frog is overstuffed and I get the feeling that's because Musker and Clements were really sensitive about depicting the black princess right that they didn't know how to block every idea coming their way and concentrate on one thing. Something they learned to do in Moana.

Tangled has a much better script and characters development. Its music is inferior to Frozen's, but Frozen feels like it's written backwards.