Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs: Diamond Edition (Pt. 2)

[Disney Duster]

I read all Netty and goofystitch said, and as always think about it.

No, there was no restoration feature on the Sleeping Beauty's Platinum.

But kurtadisneyite who not only did many things at Disney, but even worked on Cinderella's DVD menus and more, explained how the colors of Cinderella III actually look closer to the original film, and he heard things from people doing the restoration about how they were deciding how the colors should be, not going by what was originally, but how they can change them to look.

It is indicative he knows very much about how Cinderella should look, especially having worked within the company...the issue is, as usual, not over.

[KubrickFan]

I read all Netty and goofystitch said, and as always think about it.

No, there was no restoration feature on the Sleeping Beauty's Platinum.

But kurtadisneyite who not only did many things at Disney, but even worked on Cinderella's DVD menus and more, explained how the colors of Cinderella III actually look closer to the original film, and he heard things from people doing the restoration about how they were deciding how the colors should be, not going by what was originally, but how they can change them to look.

It is indicative he knows very much about how Cinderella should look, especially having worked within the company...the issue is, as usual, not over.

If he only heard things from other people, it doesn't really indicate that he knows much about the film. How would he know how it's supposed to look? Tell me that. He didn't work on the film (only on the menus, apparently) so where does his credibility come from?

[Marky_198]

If he only heard things from other people, it doesn't really indicate that he knows much about the film. How would he know how it's supposed to look? Tell me that. He didn't work on the film (only on the menus, apparently) so where does his credibility come from?

We all do, because Walt himself stated that he deliberately toned down the colors of his films, and not "pump them up to the extreme", like the Cinderella dvd.

[2099net]

If he only heard things from other people, it doesn't really indicate that he knows much about the film. How would he know how it's supposed to look? Tell me that. He didn't work on the film (only on the menus, apparently) so where does his credibility come from?

We all do, because Walt himself stated that he deliberately toned down the colors of his films, and not "pump them up to the extreme", like the Cinderella dvd.

No. As far as I know, he only stated this regarding Snow White. Because he was afraid an audience may not have been able to cope with a brightly coloured full length feature. That was 1937. Cinderella was 1950.

In the meantime, audiences had been exposed to numerous brightly coloured feature films - including all the Technicolor ones, such as The Wizard of Oz. And not only had they managed to sit through them without their eyes melting, but they were captivated by them and greately enjoyed them. Also, when Cinderella was released, Cinema had an obvious competitor in the form of Television. Just as widescreen films were introduced in the 1950's to offer more than Television, colour was most definitely a selling point against black and white TVs.

It's ludicrous to state every film had its colours deliberately toned down simply because his first did. Each film has different context to not only each other, but also historical trends of the time.

[Disney Duster]

If he only heard things from other people, it doesn't really indicate that he knows much about the film. How would he know how it's supposed to look? Tell me that. He didn't work on the film (only on the menus, apparently) so where does his credibility come from?

Well, this guy doesn't answer everything I ask him, probably because he never sticks around for very long or re-checks a thread to often.

But he didn't just hear things, he actually came out and said Cinderella III got the colors closer to the original than the DVD restoration of the original. He mentioned how the original film had some things gray or off-white that could be made green or blue with a different way of processing the colors or whatever. He just indicated he knew so much.

All I can tell you is that you will not crush what I am able to discern from what he said just because you don't think so.

[goofystitch]

Gearing the discussion back on topic, the new restoration of Snow White will be previewed on the big screen at D23 Expo and the film will also run for an exclusive engagement at Disney's El Capitan Theater in L.A. I can't wait to see it on the big screen!

[Mason_Ireton]

I'm excited for this release and somewhat tempted to see it on the big screen....don't get me wrong, I long to see a Disney classic up on the big screen but for me, I always wanted to see Fantasia on the big screen. Currently I'm tryin to get my sis's friend to purchase tickets for Snow White's El Captain permire along with Fantasia

[KubrickFan]

Well, this guy doesn't answer everything I ask him, probably because he never sticks around for very long or re-checks a thread to often.

But he didn't just hear things, he actually came out and said Cinderella III got the colors closer to the original than the DVD restoration of the original. He mentioned how the original film had some things gray or off-white that could be made green or blue with a different way of processing the colors or whatever. He just indicated he knew so much.

All I can tell you is that you will not crush what I am able to discern from what he said just because you don't think so.

But again, where does he gets his information? How did he know what the original film looks like? The bolded bit doesn't really help, what do you mean by that? That the off white parts are supposed to be green or blue?

[Disney Duster]

He got his information from people working on the restoration within the company. He was working at the company on the DVD menus, and I forgot the other things he did also included using animation from the film in the menus. Like Jaq peeping out, etc. So he worked with stuff from the actual film, restored, unrestored, or being restored.

It doesn't matter if he heard it from others, he still heard it from within the company from people working on it. It wouldn't matter if he told us on this forum, as he did, or if they went on this forum themselves.

Anyway, it is clear from your post you will just not get some information, or see it differently than I do. But I will explain that he knows the original was supposed to have certain colors be gray or off-white, but when processed or photographed differently, can turn green or blue.

Remember how the colors of the cels are not the colors you are supposed to see in the finished Technicolor film? In Technicolor they look different. Aurora's hair was green in cels, they needed to find the process that made it gold.

[goofystitch]

Disney Duster wrote:

Remember how the colors of the cels are not the colors you are supposed to see in the finished Technicolor film? In Technicolor they look different. Aurora's hair was green in cels, they needed to find the process that made it gold.

While you are correct that colors don't appear the same in Technicolor, you have been fed some very false information about Aurora's hair being green in production cells. One simply needs to take a look at the numerous production cells from the film that are available to know that whoever told you this did not know what they were talking about. Examples can be found here, here, and here. The only time her hair would be green on a cell would be in the scenes where Maleficent is casting a green glow on Aurora. And according to Les Perkins, they don't just look at the cells. They look at how the cells would look using the same film technique used when the movie was made. So when they say that the bright colors found on the Platinum Editions of Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella are as close to the original as they can get to, you can bet that this is the truth. These are trained professionals who are going into the restoration with the intentions of restoring it to it's original brilliance, not making it the way they want it to look. Just because it doesn't look the way it did when you first saw it doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Just.A.Friend]

Does anyone know or have an idea to what size the Blu-Ray DVD case will be? The Sleeping Beauty size or the Pinocchio size?

[goofystitch]

The modern trend for Blu-Ray combo packs is to put them in a case that is the same width as a DVD case (like Pinocchio) rather than a Blu-Ray case (Sleeping Beauty). I don't think anybody knows for sure until they receive a copy, but I think it's pretty safe to say it will be the wider case that holds 3 discs.

[zackisthewalrus]

The modern trend for Blu-Ray combo packs is to put them in a case that is the same width as a DVD case (like Pinocchio) rather than a Blu-Ray case (Sleeping Beauty). I don't think anybody knows for sure until they receive a copy, but I think it's pretty safe to say it will be the wider case that holds 3 discs.

Well, Bolt and Bedtime Stories were held in smaller cases that held 3 discs, but Jonas Brothers 3D was put in a wide case, so it's hard to tell.

[Marky_198]

We all do, because Walt himself stated that he deliberately toned down the colors of his films, and not "pump them up to the extreme", like the Cinderella dvd.

No. As far as I know, he only stated this regarding Snow White. Because he was afraid an audience may not have been able to cope with a brightly coloured full length feature. That was 1937. Cinderella was 1950.

.

It's the same case with Snowwhite. We live in a different time now, and people are used to brighter colors, but I think it's wrong to make the colors of these films look so modern. The Snowwhite dvd looks horrific in my opinion. Over saturated, way too bright colors, snowwhite and the queen look like clowns.

With Cinderella it's the same in my opinion. Any fool can see that those colors could never have been in the film in 1950, because such bright and shiny pinks and greens just weren't used in that time.
Nothing of the film that ever existed, stills, pictures, posters, documents, cinema material, everything that's from that time that all looks exactly the same today, has all faded in the exact same way? I don't think so.
Also, and this is very important in my opinion, no one has ever stated that all that material looked so different from the actual film on the screen back then.


Even with Beauty and the Beast now. I have seen it in the cinema back then, and I know exactly what it looked like. I also know that I didn't notice any difference in colors in "my picture books, promotional cards, movie stills book, and all the other material that looked exactly the same", and the film on the actual cinema screen.

And believe me, I had a lot of material before I watched the actual film.

But then, when the dvd came out, and looked nothing like anything we've ever seen before, people would say the same things you say right now.
And now, when we show people clips of the original BATB caps files, you get reactions like this (in the batb 3d thread):

"Yeah, I dig the more subtle color pallet they have going on. seems slightly too desaturated though to me, but maybe I just need to get used to it after seeing the other one for so long."

[Deco King]

Perhaps I'm being overly naive or stupid here , but what about simply turning the colour control/brightness/contrast buttons on your individual television if the brightness and the overly bright hues bother you?

This forum seems to be more concerned with Cinderella at present rather than Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs it's intended target !!

[2099net]

No. As far as I know, he only stated this regarding Snow White. Because he was afraid an audience may not have been able to cope with a brightly coloured full length feature. That was 1937. Cinderella was 1950.

.

It's the same case with Snowwhite. We live in a different time now, and people are used to brighter colors, but I think it's wrong to make the colors of these films look so modern. The Snowwhite dvd looks horrific in my opinion. Over saturated, way too bright colors, snowwhite and the queen look like clowns.

I'm pretty sure the apple in Snow White WOULD have been brighter and redder. It's a little something called dramatic emphasis. Ever see Frank Miller's Sin City (the comic, not the film). See how he uses black and white for the majority of the frames, but sometimes uses red in addition for dramatic emphasis. Its a striking effect. Not all reds in Snow White on DVD are super bright. I think it was intentional. The "earthy" colours of the backgrounds and dwarfs still remain muted.

With Cinderella it's the same in my opinion. Any fool can see that those colors could never have been in the film in 1950, because such bright and shiny pinks and greens just weren't used in that time.
Nothing of the film that ever existed, stills, pictures, posters, documents, cinema material, everything that's from that time that all looks exactly the same today, has all faded in the exact same way? I don't think so.
Also, and this is very important in my opinion, no one has ever stated that all that material looked so different from the actual film on the screen back then.

Yes they were. Bright and shiney colours most definitely were being used at that time. As I repeatedly said, and repeatedly will, go and watch "Glorious Technicolor" on the Adventures of Robin Hood DVD/HD DVD or Blu-ray and then tell me with a straight face such colours didn't exist in the late 30's, 40's and 50's. Go watch Madonna's Material Girl video and ask yourself why its so bright and shiny? Because is purposely copies the sequence from the 1950's Technicolor film Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. I'm sick of people saying bright colours didn't exist before 1980![/quote]

[yukitora]

BRIGHT COLORS WERE ONLY INVENTED RECENTLY PEOPLE

The 30s-50s was a great era. People were quirky without leaving social expectations, comedies were funny and made sense and the film industy was growing up strong and healthy. technicolor represented this well. Interestingly enough compared to some popular black and white films, disney's 50s films were actually quite passive, like watching a film in slow motion, probably as they were heading towards a more painterly look. It just seems to me that before and after the 50s disney films were more spontaneous. Alice may be an exception tho.

[Marky_198]

I guess we're done talking if you don't know the difference between 1950's colors and 2005 colors.

Of course there were bright colours back then, but not the extreme fluoride pinks and greens that are used now.
It's not about brightness or saturation. It's about using a different kind of colors.

NOTHING that exists of the film from 1950 looks that way.
And yet, all the material, screenshots, stills, publicity shots, books, technicolor pics, that all look the same, have all faded in the exact same way? I don't think so.
And no one ever said that that material looked different from the film on screen back then.

Same case with beauty and the beast.

It's really sad that some people just believe that the Cinderella version that popped up in 2005 is the only right and accurate version, just because it's the newest? That's like saying that in 60 years they will come up with another restored version of Cinderella and believe that that's the only good one, the 2005 was crap of course, because they just didn't know any better in that old year 2005.

I compared the material and noticed FACTS.
The dvd is different from the film when it first came out.
On top of that the artists at Disney said that they ADJUSTED the colors.

Who are you to disagree?

[Deco King]

This thread is about Snow White aren't we getting off subject here? I guess the linkage is the feared colour or color changes in the upcoming Blu Ray of Snow White?

[goofystitch]

Marky_198 wrote:

It's really sad that some people just believe that the Cinderella version that popped up in 2005 is the only right and accurate version, just because it's the newest?...I compared the material and noticed FACTS.
The dvd is different from the film when it first came out.

You noticed the facts and compared the material? So you are aware that the production cells are closer to the 2005 colors than what was released on VHS? Before making bold statements, you should check your so called facts here and here. Both prove that the original colors would have been bright. In addition, I talked to somebody involved who KNOWS MORE THAN YOU about it. It's something that has been proven, so you are the "sad" one who refuses to accept that these are the original colors.

On top of that the artists at Disney said that they ADJUSTED the colors.

Aside from the fact that artists didn't do the restoration, they "adjusted" the colors to reflect the ORIGINAL release, not what they thought looked good. You are twisting what they said.