What's your religion?

[pap64]

Moving on and leaving the Clue references aside...

Here's a funny thing. There are people who truly believe that religion exists only to help them, and if they don't receive it then they damn the Church and its teachings. My sister is one of those people...

Right after my parents got baptized, my sister and her family decided to follow them and for a while, they were happy. But then they began to face some hard times, including some issues at my brother in law's job. My sister then started getting depressed, convincing herself that God decided to not help her and her family and started damning everything.

Here's what I believe...

- Yes, religion exists to help people and make life better for them. But what many, my sister included, don't realize is that YOU must also commit to your faith and WORK towards achieving your goals. In other words, don't put everything in God's hands. You must be the one setting things in motion, having faith and making a difference. Its like a saying goes... Help yourself so I can help you.

- When you commit to a religion you must be 100% SURE you want to go through with it. My sister has the annoying tendency of church hopping like it was something as meaningless as going to restaurants. Once you learn something you must learn to accept it, especially if you agreed with it. Its why I haven't committed myself to any religion because I am NOT ready for it. I have many questions about my faith as you guys saw, so I am not going to join a church only to leave it like it meant nothing. Learn about it before you say yes.

In the end, my sister has severe faith issues because she believes that religion only exists to serve her, and if things don't go her way its to hell with all. She is always negative about things, which bothers me a lot because she needs to learn that despite the things that go on in life you must keep fighting.

They don't write stories about the people that gave up halfway to the finish line...

[milojthatch]

According to the Bible, God gave us free will. That is why he isn't here now. We aren't suppose to see God till the prophecies in Revelations comes true. If your atheist, that can seem very convenient. If you are Christian, he is keeping his promise.

Yes, you would be right, God gave us free agency. But what that does not mean is that we are free to do what ever without consequences. A child is free to put his hand on a hot stove, even if his mother may tell him not to. But, just becuase that child has the freedom to go against the wise council of his mother and touch the stove anyway, does not mean he is free from the consequence of being burned.

The problem with the philosophies of Men and the World, is that it is taught you can touch that stove without being burned. Based on things I've been reading on this thread and talking with various people over the years, it seems there is a feeling that you can turn from God and still be happy. In fact, better yet, let's just all be jaded and claim there is no God and that suddenly means we are free from all consequences of our actions.

Such flawed thinking is the biggest reason why the World is the way it is. Until mankind can put aside their foolishness and turn to God, there will be no peace on Earth. Mankind can not achieve this action WITHOUT God Frankly.

This issue at hand and what is holding us back from such a life is two pronged. The first being is there a God? and the second being which church is true then? Both issues however seem to run into each other. Your average human wants rewards without work. Your average human wants to do whatever without being condemned for it. Your average human wants to turn to his own wisdom rather then that of God's. As such, he create religion or lack of based upon his own carnal desires and wishes and NOT based on God and His wisdom. This leads to confusion and fighting. Case in point, read this thread.

What your average human doesn't get however is that God is our literal Father. As such, our relationship with him is that of children dealing with a parent. Just like those same Earthly relationships here on Earth, many of us feel the need to rebel from our Father. But also the same, there is no happiness ultimately for such actions.

We need to understand that God Himself has rules He must follow. There is a Higher Law. It was becuase of this Higher Law that Christ had to go through the Atonement. Without Him, we could never live with our Father in Haven again or progress eternally. In that reality, death really would have been the end. But, becuase of our Savior's sacrifice, we have literally been saved.

To be a bit more blunt, He died so you could curse Him and not believe in Him. But make no mistake, no matter if you believe or not, it does not, nor will it ever change the reality of what it is. Reality is greater then one's mind. He lives, and no amount of disbelief is going to change that ever.

[Siren]

Well, that's your opinion Milo. Others are entitled to theirs. I don't see anyone "cursing" Him. Until we are dead, only then will we truly know. I just wanna be there and see your face when Goddess tells ya you gotta reincarnate Just kidding. Seriously though, we believe what we believe in our heart. My heart is not your heart and your heart is not mine. So I am not going to sit here and beat you over the head about how you should believe in God and Goddess. I do, I'm happy. You believe what you do, you're happy.

[xxhplinkxx]

To be a bit more blunt, He died so you could curse Him and not believe in Him. But make no mistake, no matter if you believe or not, it does not, nor will it ever change the reality of what it is. Reality is greater then one's mind. He lives, and no amount of disbelief is going to change that ever.

...You do understand that just because he's real in your mind/heart, whatever you call it, that it doesn't mean it's real, right? Like, for the rest of the world... Your beliefs don't equal that of everyone elses...

[Siren]

To be a bit more blunt, He died so you could curse Him and not believe in Him. But make no mistake, no matter if you believe or not, it does not, nor will it ever change the reality of what it is. Reality is greater then one's mind. He lives, and no amount of disbelief is going to change that ever.

...You do understand that just because he's real in your mind/heart, whatever you call it, that it doesn't mean it's real, right? Like, for the rest of the world... Your beliefs don't equal that of everyone elses...

True...just think of all the cultures and religions that came before Christianity. Or the ones who live in ingenious tribes who have little to no outside world contact...They don't know the Christian God, the Bible etc....I am not going to believe for a minute that when they die they would just go to limbo or worse hell.

Be happy with yourself. Sure, share your beliefs with others, but when they don't want to buy into it, don't sound like a used car salesman. If people want to be preached to, they go to church. Otherwise, MYOB. I am so glad I live in a country where I can believe what I want. I have that freedom, but that same freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion. Realize, we do not live in a cookie cutter society, nor a dictatorship. We all have our 1st amendment rights for a reason. So we can believe what we want. So while you are doing God's work, remember, you also have to do America's work (for those who live in America) and that means, allowing others the freedom to believe how they wish without feeling harassed and belittled.

[Disney Duster]

Milo, God can do anything. he does not have to do anything, including follow his own rules. He can choose if he wants to because it's a good thing, I guess. Also, many people have rebeled from their parents who, say, ask them to clean a floor with chemicals that burn their hands, and been happier for rebeling and not burning their hands. What if your parents say "Kill that person" but God says "don't"? How can you honor God and your parents? Easy. You can honor them but still not do everything they command if it makes you unhappy.

And on this earth, people don't listen to certain things that certain people say the Bible says, and are happier. For instance, they are in love with someone of the same sex, and so they make out with that person they love, making them happy. And maybe you think "Well, they may be happy now, but they won't be in the after life!" Well, that's awfully weird, I don't see why God would let it be possible for you to be happy with that but not happy later. And maybe you think "They aren't really happy", and you can think that, but trust me they are happy at least for those moments. And like I implied, who knows what God really wanted, when the Bible can be read different ways and it was changed throughout history anyway. I believe God wants things to make sense to us, and his word is in the Bible but we need to discern what we think he wants us to do and not what others tell us he wants us to do.

You are supposed to feel God and believe in him in your heart and mind. Not because someone else tells you to believe. Someone can tell you so that they help you decide to try and feel God, but you still have to feel God, or have it make sense, something. Do you really think God would want someone to read the Bible and only say they believe because they are told to? No. God wants you to feel/think what is right, that he is real and what he wants you to do.

I don't know how I'm supposed to believe in just text I read anyway when God sets some rules and then God in the form of Jesus says those rules don't apply anymore... It seems to me we would have to only listen to the latter half of the Bible. Or I guess read the whole thing then finally decide what to follow and what not to follow. And I guess God sends good people to read it to those who are blind or can't read...

[blackcauldron85]

I don't know how I'm supposed to believe in just text I read anyway when God sets some rules and then God in the form of Jesus says those rules don't apply anymore... It seems to me we would have to only listen to the latter half of the Bible.

Yes, I have such issues with this. It just gets confusing.

I'm not planning on going to church tonight. We've been really busy this past week and, even after my nap, I am pretty exhausted. I saw that Bobby put my Bible next to the door...I haven't told him yet. I don't want to deal with him or the people at church. If I'm tired, I'm not going to be paying attention, anyway. I'm sure that God understands that I'm tired. It's not like I'm not going because I don't like God...I'm not going because I can read the Bible at home if I so choose and I am just tired and would rather just rest, and eat if I get hungry. I'm just blabbing now, but I hate how people get freaked out if you decide not to go to church just because you don't feel like it. It should have nothing to do with those people.

I mean, people say that we're all responsible for each other in the church or whatever they say, but what I do is between God and them. I mean, then it comes down to the subject of, What if one of us was selling drugs, would we have the "right" to tell the person that that is wrong. But missing one week of church (I mean, I miss more than that but I've been going most weeks) isn't going to send me straight to Hell. Some people need to MYOB!

Rant over

[PeterPanfan]

I really dislike Jehovah's Witnesses. A few years ago on Halloween, when the JW's were out and about, my neighbors decided to play a trick on them when they knocked on their day. He answered the door wearing a Scream costume (The Scream mask and a black cloak), and just stared at them until they left.

[Siren]

I really dislike Jehovah's Witnesses. A few years ago on Halloween, when the JW's were out and about, my neighbors decided to play a trick on them when they knocked on their day. He answered the door wearing a Scream costume (The Scream mask and a black cloak), and just stared at them until they left.

LMAO! That is too funny! There is a similar Halloween prank on YT but reversed. A couple of teens made a life size "kid" dressed in a black robe and wearing a skull mask, holding a trick or treat bag. They place it at the door and ring the bell and hide in the bushes and film the people. They come out and are all, "Ooo, you're spooky...", they give him the candy and then watch him, just stand there, staring at them...the reactions are hilarious.

[Disney Duster]

Well Amy just remember we can't figure out why God does anything, but it is always possible that even though God's main messages are in there, some people added to it the rules of their day they wanted...that's why I use the mind and heart God gave me, as well.

Oh, and that reminds me Milo, I wanted to make clear that I don't believe God wants me to unhappily never be with the boy who will romantically make me happy. I'm gay, that's how God made me, and when I feel love for a boy, I feel and think the same things I hear in love songs men sing about their love for girls. God gives me a wonderful happy feeling for the same sex and I feel he wants me to be happy, and so I also think the Bible has been messed with or simply interpreted differently (others say it means something it doesn't) when it comes to homosexuality. I feel God wants me to keep having the happy feelings I get from falling in love with other boys that he decided I would have, and act on those feelings some day, if I'm married to the boy of my dreams or whatever I can do.

[PeterPanfan]

I really dislike Jehovah's Witnesses. A few years ago on Halloween, when the JW's were out and about, my neighbors decided to play a trick on them when they knocked on their day. He answered the door wearing a Scream costume (The Scream mask and a black cloak), and just stared at them until they left.

LMAO! That is too funny! There is a similar Halloween prank on YT but reversed. A couple of teens made a life size "kid" dressed in a black robe and wearing a skull mask, holding a trick or treat bag. They place it at the door and ring the bell and hide in the bushes and film the people. They come out and are all, "Ooo, you're spooky...", they give him the candy and then watch him, just stand there, staring at them...the reactions are hilarious.

LOL You should post that in the Youtube thread.

[Goliath]

I've been reading on this thread and talking with various people over the years, it seems there is a feeling that you can turn from God and still be happy. In fact, better yet, let's just all be jaded and claim there is no God and that suddenly means we are free from all consequences of our actions.

Such flawed thinking is the biggest reason why the World is the way it is. Until mankind can put aside their foolishness and turn to God, there will be no peace on Earth. Mankind can not achieve this action WITHOUT God Frankly.

Well, it seems to me, and I'm only reading every newspaper I can get my hands on and watching every news broadcast on tv, that much of the *violence* and *misery* in the world today actually stems from people being TOO obsessed with their God. Religious wars cost the lives of hundreds of thousands of lives each year; suicide bombers blow themselves and their fellow men up so they can be a martyr for God; large groups of people get denied their rights because opressive religious people say it's God will, etc.

That's how it is NOW. Imagine how bad it would be if people turned MORE religious...!

No, in fact, let's imagine something different. Imagine there's no Heaven. It's easy, if you try. No Hell below us. Above us only sky. Imagine all the people, living for today!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4cxhNGV7q8

Your average human wants to turn to his own wisdom rather then that of God's. As such, he create religion or lack of based upon his own carnal desires and wishes and NOT based on God and His wisdom. This leads to confusion and fighting. Case in point, read this thread.

Well, I asked a lot of questions about God and Christianity about things that I don't understand, but I never got an answer to any of them. Instead, people simply told me I was being too "negative". Fact of the matter is, the questions were too critical, and they were questions religious people never ask themselves, so to them, it's unthinkable that someone else would.

What your average human doesn't get however is that God is our literal Father.

Oh, but YOU get it? You're somehow the expert? God made you the expert on him, right? What self-righteous crap!

[Super Aurora]

To me I don't think religion is really needed in this day and age. Back then religion was more easily understandable and common as it was a way to explain the unknown or how things came to be. Like the ancient greeks for example. They didn't know how lightning came to be or what causes it so they made oral stories that a powerful god did it when he's angry or whatever other reason.

Now that we have a much more better understanding of the world and what's around it, religion isn't as important to rely on as it was back in old days.

[blackcauldron85]

This past Sunday's Parade magazine has an article about this topic, sort of.

From the Oct. 4, 2009 Parade magazine, p. 4-5, How Spiritual Are We? by Christine Wicker

Here are some highlights (and the poll was just for the U.S.):

What Americans are doing today is separating spirituality from religion, with many people disavowing organized practice altogether while privately maintaining some form of worship. The old terms- "athiest" and "agnostic"- are no longer catch-alls for everyone outside traditional belief. In fact, 24% of respondents put themselves into a whole new category: "spiritual but not religious."

A scant 12% of respondents said that their own religion was the only true faith, 12% said no religion has validity, and 59% said all religions are valid.

The largest percentage (33%) said religion was important but not the most important thing [in their lives]. The most religious and least religious respondents balanced each other- 24% said religion was the most important thing in their lives and 22% said it wasn't a factor at all. Another 22% said religion was in their lives but not particularly important.

[40%] picked "I believe [my religion is] a source of truth"...[19%] picked customs, traditions, and holidays as the most important part of their religion; another 19% chose teaching morals and ethics to their children; and 8% picked a sense of community. About 14% said that their religion's most important quality was that it makes them feel safe and secure.

Although 45% of respondents considered themselves religious, 70% of them said they participate in organized religion sporadically or not at all. That means one-third of the people who identified themselves as religious were only minimally connected to traditional worship.

...59% said faith can help solve the world's problems and offer hope to the suffering, while 41% said religion has too often led to war and suffering.

Spirituality also plays a role in our entertainment choices. There, too, Americans veered away from the mystical and weird. When asked to pick their favorite of these films involving spirituality- The Da Vinci Code, The Exorcist, The Omen, The Sixth Sense, The Ten Commandments, Ghost, and It's a Wonderful Life- one out of every four people selected The Ten Commandments. It was the hands-down winner, showing us that old-time religion still rules supreme and unchallenged- at least at the movies.

[yukitora]

I'm a Christian. Primitive Pedestrian Baptist, to be precise. (Teh, that sounds like we only believe in walking as a means of transportation. That's not what it really means at all.)

(i'm laughing at your comment, not your religion btw)

I'm a non-denominational Christian, and very much so. I struggle to make it my top priority practically, but value-wise it definitely is. Being Australian we don't get the 'GOD HATES FAGS' thingo which I think it purely a result of good old American angst. Honestly, I think America is responsible for most of the anti-christian beliefs out there in the western world, and having said that, I think many church goers themselves fail to truly understand the purpose of church and God's love itself. Sorry for being critical, but that's what I believe.

In Australia many of the more popular, modern churches are and have always been accepting of gay men and women. I believe this is part of the neo-christianity movement in which Christians have taken a step back and looked at the Christianity as a religion and seen it crumble and seemingly move away from God's intent. These people reject Christianity as a religion, and rather welcome it as a way of life... well actually, THE way of life.

The church I currently go to isn't one of these. They are publicly against gay marriage. But frankly, so am I. Marriage is a christian concept, and many homosexuals out there are against such a religion, so why do they want this? Just get a civil union or a celebration but don't attack christian societies just because you want something of theirs. I think one of the greatest problems in our modern society is that people equate love's future as marriage. This is why most marriages fail... because once the love ends, they simply believe there shouldn't be a marriage any longer...

It can't be denied here but a lot (not all, most are identical to their straight counterparts, and some are even christian themselves) of publicly open gays are incredibly promiscuous. If not, then at least these people are the sort that fall in and out of love too easily. If marriage was open to them, I think there would be just as much gay divorce as gay marriage (well obviously this isn't possible, but you get the point ). I think this ruins the sanctity of marriage just as much as any other divorce would, and I honestly don't believe that most of the people campaigning for gay marriage are those who truly believe in it - most appear to be people simply arguing for gay rights.

[xxhplinkxx]

and many homosexuals out there are against such a religion, so why do they want this? Just get a civil union or a celebration but don't attack christian societies just because you want something of theirs.

The only reason homosexuals are against it, is because the religion is against them. It's like trying to get into a night club you really wanna go to, yet the bouncer says you can't go in night after night after night. After a while, you're gonna get annoyed with that club and stop going, right?

And as to your comment of wanting something of "theirs"... you forget that gays are normal people and grow up in the church just like you; it should be just as much ours as it is yours. It's only when we get ostracized for being gay that we stop going to church, if we weren't, there would still be plenty of gay people who would still love to go to church. Can you blame us for wanting something that's been presented to us all our lives? If the entire world ran on civil unions, then fine, but it doesn't. And that's not fair. Why should we be treated like second class citizens? We're normal people who deserve to be married just like you do.

It can't be denied here but a lot (not all, most are identical to their straight counterparts, and some are even christian themselves) of publicly open gays are incredibly promiscuous. If not, then at least these people are the sort that fall in and out of love too easily. If marriage was open to them, I think there would be just as much gay divorce as gay marriage (well obviously this isn't possible, but you get the point ). I think this ruins the sanctity of marriage just as much as any other divorce would, and I honestly don't believe that most of the people campaigning for gay marriage are those who truly believe in it - most appear to be people simply arguing for gay rights.

Um. You need to stop watching so much TV. Straight people are just as, if not more promiscuous than gay people. Only difference is that gay people are more open about their sexual lives and probably seem like sluts just because we talk about it. And gays are always portrayed as whores in the media, and it's not true.

And no, I don't think there would be as much gay divorce as straight ones. Unlike straight people, we don't get forced into marriage, and we don't feel obligated to marry someone just because we've been with them for a long time or because the guy knocked up his girlfriend. We don't marry someone because we're bored and go get a quickie in Vegas cause we're drunk and have nothing better to do. Maybe heterosexuals should have marriage taken away from them for a hundred years or so, so they learn to treat it with more respect.

[Disney's Divinity]

Hate to state the obvious, but the concept of marriage has and does exist outside the Christian religion. Otherwise, Buddhists, athiests, wiccans, etc. wouldn't be allowed to marry in the US. Other points: civil unions don't allow the same rights as a marriage and marriages between men have existed throughout human history (China, Africa, Greece, etc. and among Native Americans, though they had different ideas about sexuality).

Also, men are accepted to be much more promiscuous than women in general. So, I think it would be fairly expected that relationships involving only men would have much more promiscuity than heterosexual or lesbian relationships (considering women usually don't feel the same way about sex). But let's please not use generalizations to decide what should be legal. Young people tend to be more promiscous than old people as well--should marriage only be allowed for old people?

[blackcauldron85]

Extremely well said, Disney's Divinity!

And also well said, Chris.

[Siren]

A good point about generalization....what age and sexual orientation group has the fast rising rate of STDs, mainly HIV/AIDS?

Not teens and not homosexuals...Elderly heterosexuals. Ok...now get over yourselves...yes, old people still have sex. And just as teens feel invincible and don't feel they are at risk for STDs....the elderly community feels they have lived this long without it and there is little to no risk of pregnancy, so a lot of them have unprotected sex.

Generalizations about certain age and sexual orientation groups do little when you have cold hard statistics.

We have separation of church and state for a reason. No one else is trying to stop gay marriage except those of certain religions. That's not separation of church and state. If two adults want to have sex and marry, let them. Stop pushing religion on people who have a right to be free from it.

[a-net-fan]

We have separation of church and state for a reason. No one else is trying to stop gay marriage except those of certain religions. That's not separation of church and state. If two adults want to have sex and marry, let them. Stop pushing religion on people who have a right to be free from it.

I agree with most of what has been said above. But one correction:

Speaking of generalizations you just made one. I work with and know a number of athiests and non religious people of all ages who do not believe in gay marriage. Many are more hateful and intolerant then many of my christian friends on the issue. By opposing same sex marriage you arent making a religious statement... it is simply a individuals position on a social issue.