End of Disney animated films?

[Zoltack]

Now that I think about I honestly don't think that CGI isn't all that bad. I just like to see more 2D animation movies now. I mean most of the Disney animation movies I like are the classics and why is that? Because they're hand drawn, 2D animation.
Coincidence? I think not!!!

[blackcauldron85]

This made me cry:

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... -guns.html

I got a call today from one of the c.g. artists who was bounced at the end of Bolt's production. The guy had been there ten years, but you know how it is: "You're last performance review was a little weak Charlie, here's your final check, and thanks for being part of the team."

And after a decade and five movies, the artist takes one for the team -- out the door and off to a rendezvous with unemployment benefits.

But I was amazed how non-bitter the ex-employee was, really more sad and resigned than angry:

"Disney Animation doesn't have a lot of development going on. I don't know what they're going to be doing after Rapunzel. There's the King of the Elves thing, but after that? One of the rumors going around was Robert Iger wanted to close Disney Animation and just have Pixar do the animation..."

I know that it's just a rumor, but that wouldn't really happen, right?!?! Especially if Bolt and The Princess and the Frog do well, right?!? And then Rapunel will eventually come out, and The King of the Elves...surely they'll have more projects in development before those 2 movies come out, right?!?

[Escapay]

Financially, it somewhat makes sense. The Feature Animation division hasn't been picking up the slack as much as the company wants it to, and if Bolt, The Princess and the Frog, Rapunzel, and King of the Elves continue that tradition (making decent box-office returns but nothing staggeringly as vast and large as The Lion King or modestly successful as Lilo and Stitch), it seems more likely that the division will be closed. I'm not saying it will be closed, nor am I saying I wouldn't mind it being closed. I'm just saying that it does seem like a very possible decision they'll make if the revenue from their next four films aren't what they want it to be. The deciding factors obviously seem to be The Princess and the Frog and Rapunzel, so if either underperform, that will likely see the development of future films (beyond King of the Elves) either halted/shelved, re-evaluated, or sent over to Pixar (where they'll probably just drop it altogether in favor of their own projects).

albert

[2099net]

And people are surprised at this because?...

You didn't have to be Nostradamus to predict this as soon as Pixar was bought by Disney.

[yukitora]

I think its better to have two animating studios under the one magicians hat.

What happens when Pixar falls into obscurity? Looking at their hectic schedule and WALL-E's relatively poor performance, I wouldn't be incredibly confident.

Though it'd look cool if the official disney canon ended with exactly 50 films (not counting DINOSAUR and The Wild/Valient)





personally, i'd watch a disney move over a pixar one anyday, just because

[PatrickvD]

Hey this is just like the time they wanted to close the studio when Walt dies. And that time when The Black Cauldron tanked.
And when Treasure Planet bombed before they switched to CG.

Keep in mind they're building this studio back up from scratch. And I doubt they'd announce three new films and then shut it down. There's also 4 new animated shorts in the works and they just launched a new website.

My guess is they're holding off on doing anything untill they see what Princess and the Frog and Rapunzel do.

Also, I doubt Iger will lay the fate of all Disney animation in Pixar's hands, a studio that cares little about what audiences want. Remember how nervous everyone got when they realised WALL-E was taking on fat people and consumerism? exactly.

Also, it's no secret WALL-E underperformed BIG time for Disney. Their in-house tracking had it at a $70 million+ opening weekend and a total north of $260 million. Not only did it not reach that, it's underperforming overseas as well, failing to match Ratatouille in virtually every market.

[2099net]

I think its better to have two animating studios under the one magicians hat.

But currently that's costing approximately twice the cost, for (box office performance and projections considered) less than twice the income. Remove one division, including letting 50% of their employees go, merge the remaining 50% with the other division and you've lowered the costs and (theoretically) greatly increased the profit potential.

What happens when Pixar falls into obscurity? Looking at their hectic schedule and WALL-E's relatively poor performance, I wouldn't be incredibly confident.

Well, I don't think that will happen, but if it does, no problem. They'll stay the same and just take on the Disney name. It's not so much the company that was/is the issue, but the people. You've got duplication, and not just in the artistic side. Do you need as many human resource managers? Or accountants? Or even cleaners?

Given the comments on the Ratatouille DVD, Pixar are seriously thinking about hand-drawn animation, so what separates them from Disney Feature Animation? On the face of it, nothing. And if they do move in to hand drawn animation (which lets face it, given their upcoming movement into Live-action is not that far-fetched) they'll simply employ a few key currently-Disney Feature Animation animators to help them.

While Pixar was a separate company, it made sense for Disney to keep Walt Disney Feature Animation running. After all, Pixar were masters of their own destiny, and who knows what they could do in the future.

Now Pixar ARE Disney, it doesn't make sense to have two divisions in the same company doing the same thing. And if you decide to ditch one, you're bound to keep the most profitable.

[2099net]

Hey this is just like the time they wanted to close the studio when Walt dies. And that time when The Black Cauldron tanked.
And when Treasure Planet bombed before they switched to CG.

Keep in mind they're building this studio back up from scratch. And I doubt they'd announce three new films and then shut it down. There's also 4 new animated shorts in the works and they just launched a new website.

My guess is they're holding off on doing anything untill they see what Princess and the Frog and Rapunzel do.

Regardless, I see the studios being fully merged (with loss of duplicate positions) and Pixar being the name surviving. As for equipment, Pixar is doing live-action. Pixar has expressed interest in hand drawn animation. Nothing needs to be wasted.

[PatrickvD]

Just recently Pixar made clear they're not going to do handdrawn animation and they will also not be doing visual effects for live-action movies, even ones produced by Pixar.

I really think this is just a rumor, wich comes from the fact that people over at Disney are still trying to figure out what type of films Disney animation should be making.

And does anyone truly believe Disney will shut it down or merge it before the release of Rapunzel in 2010? that would kill PaTF and Rapunzel at the Box Office.

[2099net]

Just recently Pixar made clear they're not going to do handdrawn animation and they will also not be doing visual effects for live-action movies, even ones produced by Pixar.

I really think this is just a rumor, wich comes from the fact that people over at Disney are still trying to figure out what type of films Disney animation should be making.

Pixar already has done hand drawn animation. The opening titles to Monsters Inc. and Ratatouille were done in house. And they seem pretty pleased and enthusiastic to do more on the Ratatouille DVD/Blu-ray (in various segments). What's changed?

As for any company making any statement, well, you can't take anything at their word. It's not a dig at Pixar before people accuse me of that. It's just a dig at corporate politics.

[PatrickvD]

the little doors movin around in Monsters, Inc and the stuff from Ratatouille barely qualifies as traditional animation.

And if they were ever commited to doing more of that I think they're refering to the wonderful credits of Wall-E and find a way to incorporate this into their CGI films in the future rather than make films animated entirely this way.

[yukitora]

Ah I see the benefits now, 2099net (can I call you netty?).

I wonder how closing down Disney's animation department would effect their home theater releases. Surely the sales will be effected. General interest in the companies history would fade away in the coming generations and "animated disney" would just become something of the past. Sure there would still be Pixar, Disneyland, disney's live-action films, Disney Channel, and every else, but something would always be missing.

[2099net]

Although I'm not known as being that friendly towards Pixar, I'm not saying Lasseter and company are sitting around in their offices laughing manically while twirling their 1930's style villain moustaches plotting the downfall of Walt Disney Feature Animation.

But it was obvious from the second Pixar was bought by Disney that two animation divisions would not co-exist for long. It's just business sense. You're paying for duplication.

Although it's unlikely, ALL of the talent from Walt Disney Feature Animation could move to Pixar's California base along with a selection of its administrative staff and you've automatically made a huge saving. Duplicate support staff roles are removed, office rent reduced, equipment can be shared… The actual creative process of making the movies wouldn't have to change at all, or even the key producer, director, animator talent, but you've saved money.

It's freaking obvious, and it's also freaking obvious this would have been planned from the very first day. You don't spend billions on acquiring a company unless you expect both increased income and increased annual savings. Again, that's freaking obvious. Its also freaking obvious that the company you value higher than your existing internal division making similar products is going to be the preferred option. Individuals don't really come into it, only the money.

However, while the above scenario may have been planned (or at least semi-planned) from day one, the Disney board are likely to want to go further, and have increased savings. Pixar are ambitious – they are already moving into live-action movies. Again, while I'm of the opinion Pixar are generally overrated, I'm not going to slight them for being ambitious. You need ambition to push yourself creatively. It seems clear that some of the same key creative staff who make the award winning CGI movies are keen to spread their wings, and in doing so may cast a shadow over existing key staff at Walt Disney Feature Animation. It seems inevitable that some overlap is likely, and some key staff will end up being let-go. Not because said Pixar staff will demand it like spoilt divas, but because stuff like those hideous "time and motion" studies will show that dropping the positions can be financially justified. You've already got Lasseter and Catmull wearing the same corporate hats for their Pixar and Walt Disney Feature Animation positions as it is.

Given the time scale mooted in BlackCauldron's post, it seems about right to me. The only debate is how the new entitiy will be named. And it appears they're thinking if the Disney brand doesn't have a resurgence, they may as well keep the Pixar name. I understand. You can't expect the awkward "Disney-Pixar" to stay hanging around for ever.

[Jack Skellington]

Let's just keep our fingers crossed for The Princess of the Frog and Rapunzel to do well. But why would anyone ignore those two films, they look destined to be classics like BATB and TLM, they're probably going to restore the company to it's former glory.

My little cousins were so excited when I showed them the trailer for "the Princess and the Frog" on youtube, they ask me "Is it out yet ?" everytime I see them.

So this movie has appeal present with both adults and children, how can it flop ?

[PatrickvD]

Personally, I think if Disney Animation Studios is either merged or shut down (and I don't think this will happen), it will be the "Pixar" brand that goes, not the Disney one.

Much the same as how Nightmare Before Christmas was once a Touchstone release. Now it's just Disney.

[Elladorine]

Wow, old familiar thread here. And a lot has changed since I last looked through it.

I remember how devastating it was to me as just a fan to hear the news of the 2-D studio closing. I've since befriended a former Disney animator online. He doesn't talk about the studio much except that he was grateful for the time spent there. He also says he isn't bitter about the job ending because it actually opened new opportunities for him.

I feel that's a good way to look at it, and maybe in the grand scheme of things it's difficult to see the new doors that open in the wake of the closed ones. I feel that high-quality animated movies will live on, despite what happens at Disney within the next few years.

I also predicted a few years ago that 2-D would make some kind of comeback at Disney, and even if we don't have all the same people working on them we now have new features to look forward to. I just hope they do well.

[schoollover]

Sorry to bump this back but I always had the idea that should have done both.
Like when they announced chicken little they should have also announced a traditionally animated film with a fairytale theme like The snow queen which could have gone big and from there have one film every year and it could go
CGI
Traditonal
CGI
Traditional
and so on. This is what I think would be good.