The Universe has stomped on me thread. Rant or clear the air

[pap64]

Pardon me for rambling once more, but there was something else I wanted to talk about...

I won't lie, I am 29, I turn 30 in July. I am no longer a kid or a teenager. Yet, in the eyes of many I seem like a manchild due to my love of Disney, video games, movies, technology, gadgets and toys. That I should be more "adult" in my endeavors, to "grow up".

Here's the thing, on one hand, I get what they are saying. I have seen women in the 50s trying desperately to act like 15 to 20 year old girls and pretending they are forever young. I have also seen men in their 40s who are married, yet behave like they were still teenagers and still have a teenager mentality. With age comes certain responsibilities, ideas and beliefs. I know many don't want to face them, but it's life, and the more to try to be like a little kid the worse it will be in the end. Being in denial about the truths of life won't help you deal with them.

BUT on the other hand... I hate the idea that being an adult also means abandoning the passions you have because of your age. I love Disney, I love Pixar, I love stories, movies, animation, music and toys because they all have an artistic side to them that makes them fun to learn about, inspire you to create your own and they can be a relaxing hobby to partake in at the end of a stressful day. I don't see that as being childish, just a general pursuit of something that makes you happy.

I bring this up because I see it a lot on Facebook and other sites and friends. They desperately try to look and act adult, but in the end come up as being childish and stupid. Yeah, honey, saying that all men are the scum of the earth through a hilarious comic strip makes you a big girl. Oh sure, dude, drink yourself into a stupid while you whore yourself out to any girl that has a vagina, you are a big boy, just the way daddy raised ya! But mention that you like Disney or play video games and I am the worst manchild EVER!

Really, I may love all of those things, but I also happen to have THREE college degrees, all I worked hard to earn and sacrificed a lot of my heart and soul just to obtain them. I have seen many things at an early age that would strip anyone of their innocence. Nothing in my life has been easy, I have been lied to, I have been cheated upon, I have been unfairly judged, and yet I still wake up every morning trying to chase something of value. Does that make me an "adult"? Not really, but heaven forbid for anyone to call me a manchild for the things I like.

I am DONE trying to appeal to everybody. I am not going to let my happiness slide just to appeal to a couple of people that could care less about me. And if anything I do happens to offend them, I will just call them out on their own endeavors and see how THEY like it. As it stands, I am no longer going to paint myself as something I am not just because I fail to follow a status quo that society imposes upon us.

Ugh, I think the rant went out of hand for a second there! But I really wanted to mention it since it's a thought that has been on my mind for a while now.

[Super Aurora]

Interesting about the Video Game label. Cause In this day and age, video games actually seems much much more a norm now than it would been 15 or 30 years ago. Guys and even gals in young adult to middle age love play video game and aren't refer as "man child" or whatever. In this day and age with teh raise of internet, technology etc, the geek fandom like video games and such seem much more norm than one suspect.

I go to NYC all the time to school, and every time i'm on the PATH or subway, I see guys in full business suits young and middle ages playing Final Fantasy or Street fight etc on their PSP or Mario on Nintendo DS. This is NYC we're talking about lol. So I thin in video game case, it has been a lot more the norm than you'd expect.


Most people consider "MAN CHILD" as ultra nerd people who live with their mom in the basement with no job or college education etc.

So I don't think you should worry about being labeled that as it's would be true or apply to you anyway.

[pap64]

I should have mentioned that while no one has yet to make that label, the fact that I tend to have those tastes does make me a bit of an outcast, at least in my hometown. As Disney as that may seem, there are times where I feel I am disconnected with people in general, not because I hate them, I am anti-social or whatever, but because I tend to think slightly different from them, as well as have different interests.

Think of it this way, you know how in the musical number "Belle", Belle tries to strike up a conversation with the baker about the book she read, and the guy just ignores her? Well that is me, I am Belle and at times I feel like I am speaking to people in another language. Hell, my dad the other night said that I didn't have friends because I never really talked to anybody. As it stands my friends are all online or overseas because they know, understand me and get me better than most people in real life.

The other reason I wanted to vent is because I have this friend. Let's call him Fake Bin. When I first met him in 2004, he was like me: tall, fat, hairy and into technology, anime, video games, coding and such. He wasn't a looker, and he was happy that way. Then he started to play Dance Dance Revolution hardcore and he lost a lot of weight. He thought of it as an opportunity to re-invent himself as a man in order to be more social. So he lost a lot of weight, bought a lot of new clothes, changed his whole image and started visiting night clubs and bars more often. While I was happy for him that he achieved the goal later on I started to feel like he was judgmental towards me and the rest of our friends. In a way, I think he looked at me and thought of me as a bad image of what he used to be, and thus he started to treat me differently than from when we first met. Now that he was out being social, women loved him etc. he felt superior to us, and the smart, quiet guy became this loud, obnoxious "fake" guy that are a dime a dozen nowadays (and back in the day we used to call them METROSEXUALS).

What happened is that he pretty much became someone else because he was seeking the attention of others, and thus he began to think that he was better than someone like me who apparently fits his vision of what a man "should be". I think it's the biggest load of crap ever conceived since all of my friends didn't have to transform themselves to be social, achieve goals and eventually find wives. I made mention of it because while it is OK to try and become a better person either physically or emotionally judging others because you feel better about yourself just makes me think that you are trying to justify an annoying status quo, and that just makes me want to spit on their drink out of spite...

Of course, I am too much of a coward to do that sort of thing in real life, but still...

[Super Aurora]

ah that. Yes I heard of that.

I had a friend who did similar thing although he never lost weight or have image change that lead to "transformation" but he became more social and more outgoing in HS whereas in middle school he was same but hung out with us. So he started out getting in more popular crowd due to his clownish stunts and such and seems more distant from us however he still acted the same personality wise so while we miss having him hang out with us, he himself didn't change and we knew he'd be like that. He still interact with us sometimes and the same. Just he went out with other people and seem become more trouble maker lol.

It's funny that in my case, I use to be with popular people and such but as I got older I got less and less interested in what they love doing: sports. And more about my art or entertainment medium. so our close friendship gradually spread across. However I am able to chat up with them once in a while.

Sometimes I do get in conflict with one or two of the loud boisterous popular kid, but rather than feeling hurt and sad and angry inside, I actually "fight" back in the sense that i make smart or snide remarks in very condensing tone right back. I happen enough that we kinda did it as a norm and enjoyed it.

Though I don't tend to grab popularity (but it would be nice to have), I am able to interact with them easily or casually when I'm able understand conversation being in hand.(i'm hearing impaired so that kinda holds back my social enthusiasm).

[Rose Dome]

As if having another seizure on Thursday night (and having to skip a day of work to rest it off) was not enough to torture me, I just found out today at a brief meeting that I (and a few other employees) am going to be laid off from my job (AGAIN) effective next week. This news is extremely frustrating. I hate job searching as a lot of jobs nowadays either require massive degrees or are something I could never be able to do.

That's some awful stuff to be going through

My thoughts are with you ::

[Goliath]

@ Disney Duster:I hate to say it, but you have a very unrealistic idea of love. It doesn't happen like it does in a Disney movie. I think what slave2moonlight may be talking about, is the situation where two people know each other well and are good friends, but only one of them is in love with the other and only over time, the other one realizes he/she loves him/her back.

@ slave2moonlight: Do you think it's wise to immediately rush into living together with this girl, seeing as you never have had a relationship before? Usually, that's a big step couples only take after they've been together for a long time. Do you also think it's wise to make this girl dependent on yet another man before she has learned to live on herself? Just askin'.

[Disney Duster]

Thanks for the info and advice Super Aurora. Now I gotta think about what I wanna do, lol.

Slave2moonlight and Goliath, yea but...have there really ever been any romances where the people were very good for each other and both completely happy and in love, but the one person realized it waaaay later than the other person? That just doesn't seem to make much sense. Anyway, in real life sometimes people do both get hit with love or fall for each other at the same time like in some Disney movies.

Slave2moonlight, I haven't seen it so I'll try to remember to see The Shop Around the Corner when I have my own place where I can rent as many movies as I want. lol I think you should try to kiss or cuddle or touch the leg of this girl if she doesn't give you a cold, "just friends right now" kind of date. When you want to do something, that is a natural signal (unless you're like a boob grabber or a rapist which you're not lol). The first time I ever wanted badly to kiss someone was when I got a crush on my overweight friend, and I tend to like guys who are "chubby" and want to do just physical things to them like most people want to do with the six-pack people lol. By the way I think 6 packs are bad I don't think its normal to be so ripped like that but I digress.

As for love at sight, I was not talking about someone you already know and love, I was using it as an example of what sight in itself does. When you see someone you have known and loved for a long time, what is the way you can tell they are...walking toward you? By sight. You see them, and you get feelings of happiness and love because the reason you know/recognize that its the one you've loved for so long is because you see them. That's the real idea of love at first sight, that by sight, you are able to tell that the person is the one you are going to love.

Does that sound impossible? To most people it does. But love is a mystery. But sometimes who a person is is visible by sight. Say maybe they look artistic, or they are doing something you like, or the way they move is as gentle as you wished the person for you would be. It's something like that.

And in Beauty and the Beast she doesn't tell it's the Beast just because his eyes are the same shape and color. In his eyes she supposedly sees a look that indicates who he is in side, some serious, kind emotion, or thought. Like she can see his soul. That's what it's supposed to be. He gives her a look that he also gave her many times when he was a Beast. And she can see this look by sight. So if she hadn't grown to love the Beast, and he never got angry, and the first time she saw him, he had that look in his eyes, and it made her feel love, that would be love at first sight. Get it now?

Well, ha, I had a bitter college professor once who could really explain to you all the chemical reactions and how that's all the feeling and emotion of love is, but I'll agree to ignore that guy too, even if I don't believe in love at first sight, ha.

I think ever thinking like that is a real problem. I wonder how that guy lives happily, or just plain lives. I wonder if he could ever truly fall in love. If he does, my guess is he removes himself from feeling whenever he talks about love like that, but then his brain shuts up or distances itself whenever he actually does fall in love. It's good to ignore talk like that like you did. Wait, you said he was bitter. Yea, know wonder, if he thinks like that! It leads to unhappiness, what he's thinking isn't the real truth about what feelings really are.

When I said you should find the person who makes you feel like you only want them...I also meant you should keep feeling like that, too. If you just feel like that now, when you're in love and she's not "yours" yet...of course you would feel like that, you don't have her yet! The real test is feeling like that after you've been together for a while.

A hundred years with someone is technically and logically better than a day. I guess I meant if you find the love of your life very late in life, it is still the ultimate happiness either way and you won't be crying about how little time you have then. Maybe you would cry over not getting to be young together but honestly, most people who wait as long as it takes to find the right person don't get to find them when they are young. And since love is more about conversation and sharing than anything physical it doesn't really matter at what age...oooohhh except for sex, you with your libido, now I see... Well you can do that at any age, too. But if you're worried about sex...you can...find...people...for just that...

Well, like I said, I've seen it happen. I think just as far back as adolescence is nice enough, to share all those special kinda things with each other and no one else. That would really be special. And, yeah, I've seen junior high couples who never lost their feelings for each other and got married. Really good matches though. One particular pair comes to mind, because I was quite jealous of that guy, ha.

I'm partly jealous too, lol. But, um...you've heard of people who were in love before teens, or just in high school? Because yea high school's when you actually start falling in anything close to real love, I've never heard of real life really young kids who ended up marrying and being right for each other when they grew up. Benjamin Button was a beautiful movie though, lol.

Thanks for all the info and advice on the art path. I'm sorry for ya in that department. I also wanted to be a Disney animator when I was little but I'd rather work for myself and do original stuff, aside from other things I may do for others on the side or as a career till I got big if I ever do lol. Plus Disney's gotten all...not what I wanna do anymore... Good luck with your job and apartment and your girl!

Pap64 wow man, well, I'm sorry all that happened, you're such a good guy you didn't deserve any of that, but that you came out of it so strong, is really something. That guy who wanted you to read his book and got angry at you being busy reminded me that I may have been to hard on the guy I like who said they would hang out with me but he said he was busy. The reason I got so mad and thinking badly of him was so that I wouldn't think too optimistically of him and get hurt. So I think your friend was hurt and was getting angry because he didn't want you to be using him. You didn't read his book but kept posting things, which is partly why I got mad at my guy, he wasn't hanging out with me but was doing other stuff.

I also think maybe your friends care so much about you that when you do stuff that bothers them its because they really wanted to hang out with you or really wanted something from you over the other friends they care less about, that kind of thing. And think about all the animators and comic artists and video game creators. They are professional adults, they make buttloads of money off of what they do. No one would call them manchildren and technically their interests are really the realm of adults because only adults could make such things as they do.

[pap64]

Pap64 wow man, well, I'm sorry all that happened, you're such a good guy you didn't deserve any of that, but that you came out of it so strong, is really something. That guy who wanted you to read his book and got angry at you being busy reminded me that I may have been to hard on the guy I like who said they would hang out with me but he said he was busy. The reason I got so mad and thinking badly of him was so that I wouldn't think too optimistically of him and get hurt. So I think your friend was hurt and was getting angry because he didn't want you to be using him. You didn't read his book but kept posting things, which is partly why I got mad at my guy, he wasn't hanging out with me but was doing other stuff.

I also think maybe your friends care so much about you that when you do stuff that bothers them its because they really wanted to hang out with you or really wanted something from you over the other friends they care less about, that kind of thing. And think about all the animators and comic artists and video game creators. They are professional adults, they make buttloads of money off of what they do. No one would call them manchildren and technically their interests are really the realm of adults because only adults could make such things as they do.

Don't worry about me. One thing I learned during that "dark period" of my life is that there is always someone that is in far worse shape that I will ever me. Even with our monetary issues we always had something to eat, we always had shelter and we always had the important, basic things. I didn't enjoy it emotionally but I learned to be thankful for what I had. I mean, I didn't get any presents on Christmas, but I appreciated the fact that God gave us many opportunities to spend time as friends and families, and considering we lost so many relatives in the year the fact that we got together more than once and had fun means THE WORLD to me.

About my friend, I have to agree with ya. When I talked to him on New Year's he admitted that he felt bitter because he no longer had friends beyond his fiance (and quite frankly I am worried about the relationship for some things he mentioned in the past), and that I and another friend were the only people he trusted and could count on. Fake Bin, one of the friends I mentioned, got so preoccupied with his new lifestyle that it's likely they don't hang out anymore. My friend would "crash his style" so to speak, and another friend pretty much became enemies with everyone when they all ventured onto this new business idea they had, so he pretty much hates him for it.

So I definitely see why he would be feeling bitter. He lost some lifelong friends, his venture was a disaster and the only friends he can trust are too far away, and I didn't deliver on his promise right away.

I just wish there was a way to mend this, to let him think that he can still trust me and count on me on anything. Sure I did tell him why I was so tardy on the feedback, what happened on my freelance gigs (which he understood since he is a freelance voice actor himself) and still gave him insane amounts of feedback, opinions and suggestions to improve his book, so in the end he got what he wanted out of me. But I still can't shake the feeling a lot of trust was lost, and that he isn't telling me, but the worst thing is that I know, so he can be quiet all he wants, I still know what for a moment he was bitter about me and felt that I cared more for myself than his stuff and betrayed his friendship. And I don't want him to think that, because even with the disagreements and different ideals I still see him as a great friend, the first of many to show great trust in me.

That's another thing, I am constantly overwhelm by how people view me online. Many seem to trust me so much that they have confessed their love to me, both male and female, despite me not showing interest in any kind of relationship, and come to me for comfort and knowledge, even though I had never met them before in my life. My best friend once said way back in the day that there was a genuine innocence in my words that could be shown even online, and that it was something that could never be faked by anyone. Some are good at it, yes, but you can tell when someone is being legit. It just makes me worry that I do too much of a good job being a good person both online and off that if I make a mistake even once all of that hard work will be lost. And it has happened too. The best friend story is an example of that, and recently two friends that would frequently speak to me now just don't address me in any way because of a small comment I erased once on Facebook.

It just puts me in a position where I am seen as a saint, and I am not a saint. I make mistakes, I can be grouchy, I often say the wrong thing etc. Not saying to accept my negative qualities, but not to let it convince people that I am an evil person or to let it destroy any good memory I had made. It flat out hurts knowing that I spent so much time being a good friend to everyone only to say or do something and watch it all come done.

[Goliath]

Slave2moonlight and Goliath, yea but...have there really ever been any romances where the people were very good for each other and both completely happy and in love, but the one person realized it waaaay later than the other person?

I think most romances start the way I described it, yes.

That just doesn't seem to make much sense.

Not to you, it doesn't, because you're thinking about love in terms of cartoons. You seem to think you'll walk down the street someday, meet a guy you think is cute, your eyes will grow twice as large, your heart (in the form of the symbol 'hart') will come out of your chest, your tongue will become 2 meters longs and roll all over the floor... and the other guy will do the same, and you will live happily ever after.

Actually, what I described is a very, very, very realistic version which I've seen happening more times than I can remember. But that's reality.

um...you've heard of people who were in love before teens, or just in high school? Because yea high school's when you actually start falling in anything close to real love, I've never heard of real life really young kids who ended up marrying and being right for each other when they grew up.

You need to learn that just because *you* haven't experienced or seen something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You mean to tell me you know of no examples of 'highschool sweethearts' who married and got kids? And you seem to imply that in high school you can't fall in love, but only "anything CLOSE to real love"? WTF? That's a very strange thing to say. Who are you to tell?


@ pap64: whenever you're disappointed in a friend or when somebody whom you trusted betrayed you, put on this song and sing along OUT LOUD. It will relieve you. It has such powerful singing in it and the lyrics are just pure vengeful:

Positively 4th Street (Bob Dylan, 1965)

You got a lotta nerve
To say you are my friend
When I was down
You just stood there grinning

You got a lotta nerve
To say you got a helping hand to lend
You just want to be on
The side that’s winning

You say I let you down
You know it’s not like that
If you’re so hurt
Why then don’t you show it

You say you lost your faith
But that’s not where it’s at
You had no faith to lose
And you know it

I know the reason
That you talk behind my back
I used to be among the crowd
You’re in with

Do you take me for such a fool
To think I’d make contact
With the one who tries to hide
What he don’t know to begin with

You see me on the street
You always act surprised
You say, “How are you?” “Good luck”
But you don’t mean it

When you know as well as me
You’d rather see me paralyzed
Why don’t you just come out once
And scream it

No, I do not feel that good
When I see the heartbreaks you embrace
If I was a master thief
Perhaps I’d rob them

And now I know you’re dissatisfied
With your position and your place
Don’t you understand
It’s not my problem

I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
And just for that one moment
I could be you

Yes, I wish that for just one time
You could stand inside my shoes
You’d know what a drag it is
To see you

[Super Aurora]

Thanks for the info and advice Super Aurora. Now I gotta think about what I wanna do, lol.

???

What advice did I give on this thread for you??

[pap64]

Goliath, thanks for the song, but here's the thing. The situation with my friend isn't that he betrayed me, it has yet to get as awful as the song describes (though I do know many people like that). The problem here was a lack of communication between the two sources. I admit I failed to give feedback or keep him updated about it. Even if I said that I was busy and drained I still could have just read a few chapters and give my thoughts on them so he knows that I was doing it.

The other reason I can't claim that he betrayed me because I know in what kind of situation he is in. He is being forced to work at his father's company, and has been doing so EVER SINCE HE WAS A KID. The job has drained him badly and is desperate for a way out. He tried starting his own company in hopes of pursuing his dream of game development with his life long friends, and that completely failed and drove many of his friends away. When you find yourself in that situation you understand why you would be bitter. Does that excuse the claims he made about me not caring? Of course not, but I understand why he would feel this way. Like I said before, he considers me to be his only one, the one that still stayed with him when nearly everyone abandoned him after the failure of his company.

Not to mention that in the past, he helped ME cope with some of my own issues, like my dad's cancer in 2006, he defended me when the other guys were talking crap about me. He had to make unfair decisions to make sure EVERYONE was happy. He paid for A LOT of things. He tolerated MANY things. And he was one of the first people to say that I have a GOOD SOUL. He never even met me in real life when he said it, yet he placed a sense of trust so great in me that he invited me and my family into his home back in 2004, back when I was still to him just an username on a website database.

See what I mean about how none of this isn't really a betrayal of friends but rather a failure to properly communicate ideas? See, I get that everyone has double intentions, and that their words have secret meanings. But me, I decided to not look at EVERYONE that way. Yes at times I doubt people and such, but if I kept looking at everyone through brown tinted glasses it will just make the most insignificant issues feel like the worst things ever.

People can be awful, but they can also be the most amazing thing we can ever experience. I have experienced enough of both to have a realistic image, so again, thanks for the song, but there is no betrayal involved.

[Scarred4life]

um...you've heard of people who were in love before teens, or just in high school? Because yea high school's when you actually start falling in anything close to real love, I've never heard of real life really young kids who ended up marrying and being right for each other when they grew up.

You need to learn that just because *you* haven't experienced or seen something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. You mean to tell me you know of no examples of 'highschool sweethearts' who married and got kids? And you seem to imply that in high school you can't fall in love, but only "anything CLOSE to real love"? WTF? That's a very strange thing to say. Who are you to tell?

Agreed. I think it's unlikely, because most teenagers don't know how to make a relationship work, and they don't know enough about themselves to make it work. But that isn't to say it can never work, for example, my parents have been together since they were 14.

[Disney Duster]

Super Aurora you told me about how people make it as artists, remember? Maybe you missed where I said I was thinking about doing art instead of acting.

Pap64, sorry about this guy. But so what if he mistrusted you for a moment. You forgive him fully, right? If you believe its better, maybe it will be. Keep doing things that show him he can trust you. But I think you are much, much too worried about what people think of you, as either a saint or evil. Like anyone's really either one of those things. Maybe whenever you meet someone new, you should find a way to show your less innocent side in the beginning along with it. How? I dunno, just be less nice. Its easy! lol Speak your mind. If they "know your mind", they will not expect anything from you that's not how you really are. Start being blunt, like I am now, lol. And I forgot, the reason you probably have more friends online than irl is because you are a more rare kind of person.

Goliath, you're exaggerating, I mean that I think if I find a person who will be really good for me and we will both be very much in love, I think it's extremely realistic to think we will both realize we both like each other very much, and beyond friendship, not at very seperate times.

As for the highschool sweetheart thing, you read me wrong. I was saying I have heard of that. And yes I believe you can fall in love in high school. What I don't think I have ever heard of is kids younger than teenagers who ended up being great romantic matches and getting married.

my parents have been together since they were 14.

That's amazing. That's sweet.

[Super Aurora]

Super Aurora you told me about how people make it as artists, remember? Maybe you missed where I said I was thinking about doing art instead of acting.

Oh that! Lol yeah,

although I was saying that to everyone in general. But also if you want start going art, you better start drawing and ALOT of it. Considering you're close to the age of having a career, if you want be an artist and get hired, you gotta have a pro-folio and show many works. GOOD work. They want to see that you can...DRAW. I've been drawing a long time since a kid so I have the years of preparing myself, but if you want to become one now at this point, you better get bustling into drawing ALOT lol. Get an anatomy book and learn from it and learn the techniques and rules. other than that,

I'm glad that my advice help you.

Now it will helps me if you can find out your schedule. ha

[Goliath]

Goliath, thanks for the song, but here's the thing. The situation with my friend isn't that he betrayed me, it has yet to get as awful as the song describes (though I do know many people like that). [...]

I thought maybe it could be applied to the 'friend' with the new 'lifestyle' (the one who started to act like the most popular guy all of a sudden and stopped hanging out with you)... or else you could save it for whenever you need it in the future. Sooner or later, we all experience something like Dylan described.

Agreed. I think it's unlikely, because most teenagers don't know how to make a relationship work, and they don't know enough about themselves to make it work. But that isn't to say it can never work, for example, my parents have been together since they were 14.

Even if they don't know how to make a relationship work and they break up after a year or so... Doesn't mean they can't fall in love, like Duster said. If I had been together with the same person since high school, for the rest of my life, I would feel I was missing out on so much.

[slave2moonlight]

@ slave2moonlight: Do you think it's wise to immediately rush into living together with this girl, seeing as you never have had a relationship before? Usually, that's a big step couples only take after they've been together for a long time. Do you also think it's wise to make this girl dependent on yet another man before she has learned to live on herself? Just askin'.

Well, let me address this by saying I'm not trying to make her do anything, nor am I desperate to move in with her. But, if it's a case of this girl I love living with that guy or living with me, than I would prefer she lived with me. The thing is, she may not be able to make rent without living with someone, and she doesn't want to live with someone she doesn't know. However, she has started to talk about maybe getting a place herself, and if she can afford it after all, than I'm all for it. However, I am not afraid to share a place with her. I have lived with women my whole life. Women who were not particularly easy to live with. Contrariwise, I am VERY easy to live with. This of course doesn't address the risk of breakup and the awkwardness of being in a lease with someone I am not dating. However, that's always going to be a danger, whether dating, or getting married, or whatever. Of course, I would prefer to date someone a while before moving in with them, but sometimes the best options are not available. In addition, when you love someone, some level of caution almost HAS to go out the window. I don't think the fact that I have not been in a (romantic) relationship before needs to be seen as a huge issue though. I don't believe it's as much the inexperience that makes most first/early relationships fail, but more the fact that most people have them when still pretty immature, and they are also often the most superficial relationships.

To address the second question though, I don't really see how sharing an apartment would make her dependent on me. Even still, I think the implication here is that everyone needs to live on their own for a while, and I gotta say, that's a very culture-based opinion. For example, I grew up in a largely Hispanic community, and in such, it's actually pretty normal to not leave home until you are married. One could argue that man really isn't meant to live alone, but rather in family groups. If a time comes that one is forced (or desires) to be alone and develop skills to live completely independently, then they will, but there is no reason to believe that a person needs to go through that to be a true individual or have self respect/confidence, nor that being completely independent is any better a way of life than being part of a family group that cares for each other.

[Dr Frankenollie]

I know that the things I will moan about are trivial, unimportant matters that are dwarfed by some of the problems mentioned by others, but I simply want to get a few things 'off my chest', so to speak. I apologise if some of it seems a bit petty.

I like - no, LOVE - films, as I'm sure some of you are aware. Unfortunately, my passion for cinema, particularly older masterpieces, is generally unshared by my fellow teens. And it is exceedingly frustrating that, when I present old films to the few people who give them a chance, they call the films boring, stupid and make the most laughable of arguments - yet they don't recognise how silly their criticisms are, and ignore my attempts to rebuke them. And with doubtless foolishness, I always expect them to end up liking old films after all; however, even the most lively, fast-paced and entertaining Hitchcock film, North by Northwest, fails to enlighten them. Most irritatingly, they claim that the films I watch are unpopular because they're unpopular with my age group, and doubt that Hitchcock is a well-praised and beloved director.

An unassociated incident which has nothing to do with films also provoked my rage: during a lesson, the entire class had to work with and manage each other during a group task. How disastrous it turned out to be. Because of my absence in a previous lesson (the beginning of the task), I couldn't help take control, and instead had to watch the carnage unfold, while my misanthropy became even more venomous when I realised that nobody would ever be quiet. Ever.

The most amusing/horrifying thing is that quite a few of them wanted the others to shut up and get the work done, and everyone had the same technique of screaming: "Shut up!" After one person said this, somebody else objected to their rudeness, but that person was told to be quiet by somebody else...who in turn began to gossip with the person next to them...who joined in the procrastinating gossip, but then told everyone to shut up, including the person who first screamed: "Shut up!" in the first place. This process was repeated approximately seventy two fucking times.

There was one person in particular who never kept quiet; not only that, he would often mock and undermine those who were trying to take charge of the group. This person talked. And talked. And talked. And whispered. And giggled. And muttered. And when he was told off by the actual teacher for talking too much, he denied talking, and his friend backed him up. Bastards.

I was regrettably near them, and when I said that they had been talking, I was the one who was told to be quiet. Moments later, conversation became widespread throughout the class; the lying boy told everyone else to shut up, and then criticised them...for doing the exact thing he had been doing. One minute later, he started talking again.

By then, I had began plotting this little shit's demise, and matter-of-factly told him that he was a hypocrite. This is how he responded: "What? I'm not a creature from Harry Potter!"

[slave2moonlight]

Incidentally, these responses are coming a bit late because I didn't have the internet.

Disney Duster: In regards to the true love thing, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree on the whole love issue.

And in Beauty and the Beast she doesn't tell it's the Beast just because his eyes are the same shape and color. In his eyes she supposedly sees a look that indicates who he is in side, some serious, kind emotion, or thought. Like she can see his soul. That's what it's supposed to be. He gives her a look that he also gave her many times when he was a Beast. And she can see this look by sight. So if she hadn't grown to love the Beast, and he never got angry, and the first time she saw him, he had that look in his eyes, and it made her feel love, that would be love at first sight. Get it now?

Well, two things here. One, I didn't mean she was just recognizing his eyes based on shape and color, but yes, the emotion/expression too. Second, the thing you're still getting wrong here is that this is not love at first sight. She recognized him in the end as the guy she came to love as the Beast over a long period of time. Let me put it this way, if she was falling in love at first sight with him because of the look in his eyes, she would have fallen in love with him literally at first sight. As in, the day she first met the Beast.

A hundred years with someone is technically and logically better than a day. I guess I meant if you find the love of your life very late in life, it is still the ultimate happiness either way and you won't be crying about how little time you have then.

Ah, I gotta stop you there. That's something you can't say unless you've lived it, and I think it will depend on the individual and how much they reflect on things, and especially how much time you have ahead of you and how lonely your life was up till that point. Take myself for example, I have never had anyone to hold. I look forward to experiencing love at its fullest, but I am a thoughtful and reflective person who is still going to lament lost time.

Maybe you would cry over not getting to be young together but honestly, most people who wait as long as it takes to find the right person don't get to find them when they are young.

What do you base that on? I don't necessarily mean you have to be in your teens or something. Anyway, that's little consolation.

And since love is more about conversation and sharing than anything physical...

No, it's about all that stuff.

[quote="Disney Duster" it doesn't really matter at what age...oooohhh except for sex, you with your libido, now I see... Well you can do that at any age, too. But if you're worried about sex...you can...find...people...for just that...[/quote]


Whoa, whoa, whoa, that's not fair. There is a lot more to sharing physical activity with someone than sex. For example, one of my greatest dreams is to take the love of my life to Disney World (often if possible) so that we can enjoy it together. I'd like to do that before we have to pass on certain rides that are too rough for us due to our age. But, yes, sex is an issue too. Frankly, I don't see sex with someone you paid as being an acceptable replacement for sex with the love of your life. Anyway, getting back to the time left issue too, really, think about it. Finding the love of your life when you're a senior citizen or something is like... it's like a doctor telling you your relationship has only 6 months to live. It sucks. Yeah, you can make the best of it, but it still sucks. You can gloss that over with rose colored glasses, I know the world ain't fair, but let's not lie and say it doesn't suck.

I'm partly jealous too, lol. But, um...you've heard of people who were in love before teens, or just in high school? Because yea high school's when you actually start falling in anything close to real love, I've never heard of real life really young kids who ended up marrying and being right for each other when they grew up. Benjamin Button was a beautiful movie though, lol.

You're getting too hung up in the love and age issue. I don't mean that knowing someone when you are both little kids has to mean that you will both be in love since way back then. Maybe puppy love, and maybe you start dating as teens, and so on from there. Yes, this happens to people, I have seen it in real life. This happens a lot in small towns, of course. And, I'm not saying they are usually the best matches, but sometimes I'm sure they are. The ones where they are really lifelong best friends. Anyway, I only said that this is what I think would ideally be the nicest way to fall in love. IF it was someone who was a great match with whom you had become best friends with since that young age when you first knew each other. And maybe not everyone would agree with me on this, but this is the idea I like. However, that ship sailed a LONG time ago for me. I never really had any close friends when I was a kid, and certainly not girls. Now, if I find someone all these years later and we have a perfect, true love, yeah, the love will be just as good, but I still had to suffer through many, MANY lonely years, and I still would prefer not to have been so lonely and miserable for so long. It's not a matter of someone being worth the wait, it's still suffering that would have been preferable not to have endured.

Anyways, so, last Sunday, I went out again with this girl I am very in love with. We saw Beauty and the Beast in 3D, and I'm happy to say that I finally got that kiss. Just a quick goodnight kiss after a very sweet and tight hug that felt more meaningful than any had before it. She knew the kiss was coming too. It seemed, earlier in the day, that she might not be able to make it, and I expressed that I was sad, because I was planning to kiss her today, which I hadn't had the nerve to do before. She ended up able to make it after all. However, she also mentioned to me that she didn't want a boyfriend right now, so I might not want to use my first kiss on her. I told her this was confusing to me, and asked if she just didn't see me like that. She said sometimes she does think she would like to date me, however it is so difficult right now since she is living with the ex till her lease is up, and he is always wanting to get back together and raises hell when she goes out with me. Anyway, we had our date after all, and like I said, it was really wonderful. We chatted a lot over pancakes after the movie, and we had a very touching goodnight hug and kiss after. She wanted to hang out the next day, which was pretty fast for her, but I couldn't make it because my sister (whom I'm staying with right now) was moving to the other side of town, which was a big project. Sadly, I'm not pretty far away from her, but I can't really stay in the new apartment anyway, and I need to find a new job and place to live in the next few weeks, hopefully closer to her than before. Right now, I'm just hoping I get to see her this weekend. The distance is a problem, and her schedule, and I'm pretty upset that I couldn't see her when she asked me to. I hope she isn't too put off by that, as I think she also wanted to hangout Wednesday, but the distance was a problem for a weeknight. Anyway, like I said, we'll see what happens when I get my own place, which I hope will be very soon, and I really hope I get to see her tomorrow or Sunday. I can't bare to be away from her even for a day...

[Super Aurora]

Where do live Ollie, cause I think I can explain this if I know where you live.

[Scarred4life]

Even if they don't know how to make a relationship work and they break up after a year or so... Doesn't mean they can't fall in love, like Duster said. If I had been together with the same person since high school, for the rest of my life, I would feel I was missing out on so much.

Oh, I was merely saying that most high school relationships don't last, not that people can't fall in love in high school.