Winnie the Pooh (2011)

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PatrickvD
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Post by PatrickvD »

I'm pretty sure it's based on stories from the books. And they've mentioned they will be using the "leaping from page to page" thing from the original film. Which was what I loved about the original.

As long as it's not for kids with ADD like the Australian DTV's and theatrical films, I'm fine. I love the original film. Nothing ever since made me even remotely care about Pooh.

Also, if this really was exactly like the Eisner era, then where is that Princess and the Frog sequel? Where is that Meet the Robinsons television series? The Bolt spin-off? Chicken Little III?

One Pooh movie and some Tinkerbell films that are apparently decent instead of atrocious do not compare to the likes of Cinderella II, Atlantis II and The Little Mermaid III. Let's not pretend they do.

Synergy, it's what Disney does. They've invented it and are the example in Hollywood as to "how to do it". They just went overboard. I don't think anyone was expecting Disney to completely abandon their business. They just have to go about it without destroying their brands. Because of course this is about fixing Pooh as a brand name. Destroyed under Eisner.

That doesn't mean Lasseter enjoys making these films though. He probably had a gun to his head when he gave this the green light :lol: But under his leadership Disney has released two of the best reviewed animated features in the studios' recent history. So quality is guaranteed. Under Eisner, quantity was guaranteed. Quality faded a long time ago.
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Post by 2099net »

PatrickvD wrote:I'm pretty sure it's based on stories from the books. And they've mentioned they will be using the "leaping from page to page" thing from the original film. Which was what I loved about the original.
Well, I did read that originally this was pitched as a DTV, but Lasseter liked the story so much he bumped it up to a theatrical release. Not sure if that is true or not, but if its an anthology, it seems unlikely? Especially if re-workings of established tales.
As long as it's not for kids with ADD like the Australian DTV's and theatrical films, I'm fine. I love the original film. Nothing ever since made me even remotely care about Pooh.
I think that's a little unfair. Most Pooh DTVs were television spin-offs in effect, but I didn't think that Tigger Movie or Piglet's Big Movie were bad at all.
Also, if this really was exactly like the Eisner era, then where is that Princess and the Frog sequel? Where is that Meet the Robinsons television series? The Bolt spin-off? Chicken Little III?

One Pooh movie and some Tinkerbell films that are apparently decent instead of atrocious do not compare to the likes of Cinderella II, Atlantis II and The Little Mermaid III. Let's not pretend they do.
Again, a little unfair. Even before Eisner left/resigned/was thrown out/told to leave with a gun to his head (* delete as appropriate) the DTV output was already considerably cut down. Same for TV series - what was the last film to TV spin-off you can remember? Emperor's New Groove/School? How long did that take to fly? What stopped the TV series spin-offs more than anything is the Disney Channels dominance of live-action tween shows I think more than anything else.

(That's said, its a long time since I can remember a film to TV animated series from any studio - remember when films like Godzilla, Ghostbusters, Men in Black and - heaven's above - even Little Shop of Horrors got animated spin-offs. Its just not a trend these days).
Synergy, it's what Disney does. They've invented it and are the example in Hollywood as to "how to do it". They just went overboard. I don't think anyone was expecting Disney to completely abandon their business. They just have to go about it without destroying their brands. Because of course this is about fixing Pooh as a brand name. Destroyed under Eisner.
To be fair, Disney may not have kept the Pooh brand name, regardless of who destroyed it. If you're involved in multi-million lawsuits lasting year after year, perhaps a good business decision is to milk it while you can?

And you don't have to make a new film to fix a brand, just promote the old brand more. I think everyone accepts that My Friends Tigger & Pooh was a big of a disaster - too much messing with the format - but they still have a highly regarded movie, some reasonably regarded sequels, a well-loved TV show (The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh) and an award winning and valued pre-teen show (The Book of Pooh) which are between them hours and hours of "on brand" Pooh content.
That doesn't mean Lasseter enjoys making these films though. He probably had a gun to his head when he gave this the green light :lol: But under his leadership Disney has released two of the best reviewed animated features in the studios' recent history. So quality is guaranteed. Under Eisner, quantity was guaranteed. Quality faded a long time ago.
Actually, the quantity of theatrical releases seems to have gone up since Eisner's departure. (And as you know, I'm not convinced Lasseter has much range, regardless of how well reviewed his films are).
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Post by WDWLocal »

2099net wrote:Actually, the quantity of theatrical releases seems to have gone up since Eisner's departure. (And as you know, I'm not convinced Lasseter has much range, regardless of how well reviewed his films are).
(sigh) Aye-aye-aye! Again with the anti-Lasseter propaganda?! :x
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Post by 2099net »

It's propaganda to have a different view?
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Post by PatrickvD »

2099net wrote:Actually, the quantity of theatrical releases seems to have gone up since Eisner's departure. (And as you know, I'm not convinced Lasseter has much range, regardless of how well reviewed his films are).
2009 was the first year Disney released an amount of films close to the Eisner era, when Disney would release an average of 19 films a year. The last few years under Iger we've seen less theatrical films. With only 13 movies in 2007 and 13 in 2008. Disney had even announced back in 2006 that they would cut back on theatrical films.

Are you referring to animated features perhaps? In that case it could be true. Considering we've seen, on average, 1 Pixar and 1 Disney film per year. But that was also the case in the last few years of Eisner.

also, as for propaganda, can we all just discuss this without using words like "anti-Lasseter"? I think it's nice that we all have different opinions, but I'd hate to see this turn into another pointless dvd versus Blu-ray where we resort to namecalling. That's sad.

It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Pixar, Lasseter and the changes at Disney, but I also realize it's important that there are some skeptics out there. After all,"love makes us blind", even though Im not sure if that expression is used in English. It is in Dutch. I'm sure if the internet were around in the late 80s, early 90s, I'd have the same blind faith in Eisner.... and of course if I hadn't been four years old :lol:
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

2099net wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:But the new Pooh film will be using 3 Milne stories, right?
What makes you think that? What makes you think it will even be three stories? Am I missing something here not having read the whole thread, but I see now reason why it should be either of those. In fact, given the countless other Pooh features, its more likely to be 100% original.
Okay, nevermind on the 3 stories part- that was my mistake, but here are production snippets from the last few months:

6/12/09
http://blueskydisney.blogspot.com/2009/ ... -pooh.html
It appears that the new "Winnie the Pooh" is going to be a collection of stories. That is, unless things change. It will actually use footage from the classic.
8/19/09
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... isney.html
"We're doing a new Winnie the Pooh feature at high speed, boarding it like mad. We've taken some of the gems out of the Milne books and strung them together. Marketing says that the the featurette compilation from the sixties (The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh) sells steadily every time it has a new video release, but the television stuff of "Winnie the Pooh" doesn't much sell at all."

"This project is going to be an all-new feature. There was talk of having one of the original featurettes up at the front, but now it's going to be original stuff from front to back. I think the studio has figured out that going with feature quality animation will be more profitable in the long run, since the original featurettes are still selling well ..."
9/10/09
http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2009/sep ... isney-film
Writers have gone back to the original AA Milne books and, specifically, five unfilmed Pooh stories to be knitted together for the new film...

...Lasseter said they would be staying faithful to previous films by having watercolour backgrounds and Burny Mattinson, who previously worked on Pooh films, would be lead story artist.
10/15/09
http://jimhillmedia.com/blogs/jim_hill/ ... -pooh.aspx
Anyway ... Anderson, Hall & Mattinson put their heads together and came up with a suitable feature-length storyline for “Winnie the Pooh.” FYI None of the stories used in this film will be drawn from that authorized Winnie the Pooh sequel that hit store shelves last week, David Benedictus’ “Return to the Hundred Acre Wood” (Dutton Juvenile, October 2009). No, this new Walt Disney Animation Studios production will be based on the original source material. Five A.A. Milne’s stories from “Winnie the Pooh” and “The House At Pooh Corner” that hadn’t yet been used in any previous Disney Pooh projects.

“Which five stories?,” you ask. Well, the folks at WDAS haven’t officially announced this yet. But at least two of the tales being adapted to the screen this time around will be from Milne’s first “Pooh” book, 1926’s “Winnie-the-Pooh.” And they are Chapter IV (In Which Eeyore Loses a Tail and Pooh Finds One) and Chapter VIII (In Which Christopher Robin Leads an Expotition to the North Pole).
11/10/09
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... eyana.html
"This picture has just zipped along. We took dialogue out of the Milne books, the storyboard artists added some of their own, then the directors Don Hall and Steve Anderson polished it. We didn't have an outside writer on it, just the board artists and the directors. I think the whole picture will be done by next summer ..."
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Post by Disney's Divinity »

Maybe it's because I grew up on the "cheapquels" and the TV series of the Pooh franchise without having seen the shorts until much later, but I've always found the "cheapquels" very enjoyable. In fact, after finally seeing TMAoWtP, I could say I enjoy them more than the original shorts. Felt like there was more heart. And, unlike with most Disney films, I didn't really care that the animation wasn't spectacular--that's not really the first thing on my mind when I watch a Pooh film. I've yet to read the stories either, but I haven't noticed a difference in quality between the storylines of the original shorts and the "cheapquels" to be honest.

Anyway, Pooh's not going to be a record-breaker, but I've always enjoyed the franchise regardless. I just hope the voices are similar to what I'm used to--that was one of the hardest parts about going back to the original shorts (especially with Rabbit).
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

The Morning Diz
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... g-diz.html
On the first floor, the c.g. crew is working on Rapunzel while the traditional layout crew is hard at work on the Winnie the Pooh feature. We spent a lot of time looking at pencil lines on big sheets of paper (what a concept!), while the artists said:

"We're making the Hundred Acre Wood a lot more green and lush than the first time [the featurette from the 1960s]. There was research done at the actual place in Britain, and we're putting in more greenery, ferns, and bigger trees than before, making it look like Wood that exists in Britain ..."
A comment from that site:

"I sadly think “Pooh” is going to be a flop, are they killing the traditional animation at Disney in a involuntary and very unusual way?"

Obviously Pooh will have the same problem as TP&tF, in the sense that boys won't want to go see it. And where I could see TP&tF possibly being a date-night movie, will that many couples want to see Pooh without any kids? I mean, I want to see Pooh, and you all probably want to see Pooh, but will regular Average Joe moviegoers want to see it, and for those with little kids, will they spend $12-$50 to see it in the theater, or just rent or buy it on DVD/Blu-ray?!?
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Post by UmbrellaFish »

blackcauldron85 wrote:
Obviously Pooh will have the same problem as TP&tF, in the sense that boys won't want to go see it. And where I could see TP&tF possibly being a date-night movie, will that many couples want to see Pooh without any kids? I mean, I want to see Pooh, and you all probably want to see Pooh, but will regular Average Joe moviegoers want to see it, and for those with little kids, will they spend $12-$50 to see it in the theater, or just rent or buy it on DVD/Blu-ray?!?
I don't think Pooh is going to have trouble attracting either sexes, mainly because I don't think the target audience (6 and under) will care. Not to mention parents probably won't treat Pooh like PATF in that "Oh, my little boy can't see that movie!" sort-of attitude. Winnie the Pooh has always been one of Disney's more gender-friendly franchises, and it already has recognition in the toddler circle.

Box-office sucess, wise... Let's just say, I think there will be plenty of DVD hold-outs.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

UmbrellaFish wrote: I don't think Pooh is going to have trouble attracting either sexes, mainly because I don't think the target audience (6 and under) will care.
Yeah, I guess for the youngest kids, it won't matter, but for the 8 and up crowd, will those boys really want to see Pooh?

I don't know if this belongs in this thread, since it's another of my Pixar/Lasseter thoughts, but I wonder what Disney's next boy-friendly (meaning 8+) will be, and when.
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Post by UmbrellaFish »

blackcauldron85 wrote:Yeah, I guess for the youngest kids, it won't matter, but for the 8 and up crowd, will those boys really want to see Pooh?
I doubt even girls eight and up will want to see the movie. Pooh's aura of "toddler-ness" will keep them away.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

UmbrellaFish wrote: I doubt even girls eight and up will want to see the movie. Pooh's aura of "toddler-ness" will keep them away.
The thing that sucks about that is that's probably due to the Playhouse Disney nature that Pooh has had the last few years. And Disney themselves admit that the TV Pooh merchandise doesn't sell nearly as well as The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh merchandise (I guess mostly DVDs in that case...? But I read that the TV Pooh merch doesn't sell well compared to the original Pooh movie)...so the TV Pooh makes kids think that Pooh is for kids (not including "The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh"), but the "new Pooh" doesn't sell.

Ugh, I suck at making sense sometimes.

Pooh on Playhouse Disney. Makes kids think that Pooh is for kids. Merchandise doesn't even sell well, Disney says.

New Pooh movie comes out, which is better than the TV Pooh (because didn't John Lasseter say that it'll not be too kiddy?). Kids still think that Pooh is just for little kids, thanks to TV Pooh, and they won't even give the movie a chance. :(
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Post by Duckburger »

That's a pretty good analysis. A little saddening, but very true.

---

So far we've had hand-drawn Pooh, "live-action" (as in, people in suits) Pooh, puppetry Pooh and CGI Pooh. I think with the CGI Pooh, Disney really pushed their luck. All for the simple fact that it wasn't up to par with everything else Disney has done with the Pooh franchise (in my opinion - that is). And CGI'ing things seems to be the general answer to keeping franchises relevant at this point, which I really dislike.

Pooh just doesn't work in CGI, even less than Mickey does - even though it's aimed at pre-schoolers. It just generally 'wrecks' it for everyone. Once a pre-school franchise, always a pre-school franchise is probably the general thought. Which is also saddening in a way... Luckily the budget isn't that big - so making a profit shouldn't be too difficult. And then there's non-USA box-office, home video sales, general merchandise, etc., however relying on those things is probably not what Disney wants.
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Post by estefan »

I think the new Winnie the Pooh will do at least Tigger Movie level box-office, which apparently Disney loved enough to give Piglet and Roo their own movies.

And though those last two did poorly, the foreign box-office was good enough for them to be considered a profit. It won't come close to cracking $100 million, but I don't think Disney will be disappointed if it doesn't.

But, I do expect to get a raised eyebrow from the cashier likely wondering why a twenty-one year old is asking for a ticket to see Winnie the Pooh.
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Post by BackgroundActorman1976 »

You dont have spend 100 million dollars to make a real good animated feature.

you can make a great animated feature like this upcomming pooh film for 20 to 60 million and make a nice little profit.

thats the thing i hate about cgi films, is they rely so much on big name stars, and thats a big reason why they have these inflated budgets.
and the big name stars are still comanding big big paychecks when doing voice over work, even though (with only a few exceptions) they are just reading lines in there regular everyday voice, and not actually making a character(Brad pitt iam looking at you)

yes there have been many classic disney animated features with big names attached in the past. but you never saw those names plasterd all over the previews or posters or getting above the title billing before.

the idea was the actors in these films were not the stars, the characters were.


the great thing about this pooh movie is that there are not any big names in this thing, its legitmate voice over talent. no big hollywood egos demanding big paychecks or top billing.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... rnoon.html
Winnie the Pooh (the next feature up) is going full-tilt in the layout department, although some animators don't have a lot of scenes yet.
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Post by BwayJ »

estefan wrote:But, I do expect to get a raised eyebrow from the cashier likely wondering why a twenty-one year old is asking for a ticket to see Winnie the Pooh.
Purchase your ticket online if you want to avoid embarrassment
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Post by ajmrowland »

Then grab a hood, sunglasses, and avoid the snickering teenagers(looking at someone else your age going into the same movie) and if anyone spots you, toss a smoke bomb to cause a distraction.
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Post by blackcauldron85 »

We don't know what it'll be called so far (or will it just be called Winnie the Pooh?!?), but it's already being promoted in the animation building at Disney's Hollywood Studios. There's no date or anything, so some people might just think that they needed a placeholder, so they'll use Pooh, but maybe some people will realize that the poster is there because there will be a new Pooh movie...

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Post by BK »

What this Winnie the Pooh movie needs to do is kill of the stigma that Disney Channel/TV/Rich Ross( I like bashing him) have built up that Pooh is for the brainless.
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