Ralph Breaks the Internet

[Mooky]

The sad and infuriating thing about the princess scene is that it's not used to combat (unjust) criticism of the princesses with humor, but rather plays into every stereotype and misconception about them. They're air-headed, shallow, seem to basically have no other personality traits other than those already associated with them, all of which have been done to death (Belle reads, wow! Snow White bursts into song at inopportune moments, Anna says "wait, what?" a lot, Aurora falls asleep, etc.). None of this is revolutionary or original (fans have been doing this same thing for years now) or even funny, it just seems cheap, disrespectful and desperate. And where did Jasmine's line about "daddy issues" even come from? Feels more like that SNL skit about Real Housewives of Disney. I get that the scene like the movie itself is supposed to be irreverent but I'm sure there had to be other ways to pull it off. And of course, this being a feature film gives it more exposure thus perpetuating these perceptions of the princesses among the general public.

[Sotiris]

^You hit the nail on the head. You've verbalized every single issue I have with this scene. I also thought the "daddy issues" line was too adult and inappropriate when I first heard it. The entire thing is an unmitigated disaster, in my opinion.

[Mooky]

Pretty much, yes. Just the latest example of Disney crapping on its legacy for short-term goals.

[estefan]

I never would have guessed a movie made by someone who has spent most of his career directing episodes of The Simpsons, Futurama and The Critic would be subversive and feature adult-oriented jokes! I'm shocked, I tell you!

In all seriousness, I understand people not finding the Disney Princess scene all that funny (humour is the most subjective thing in the world), but it shouldn't be that surprising Rich Moore would bring a certain amount of bite and satire into his Disney films, considering his past work.

[Farerb]

Perhaps Rich Moore is not the right person to work at Disney if he's determined to be cynical about Disney and its legacy.

[Mooky]

I never would have guessed a movie made by someone who has spent most of his career directing episodes of The Simpsons, Futurama and The Critic would be subversive and feature adult-oriented jokes! I'm shocked, I tell you!

In all seriousness, I understand people not finding the Disney Princess scene all that funny (humour is the most subjective thing in the world), but it shouldn't be that surprising Rich Moore would bring a certain amount of bite and satire into his Disney films, considering his past work.

Serious or not, there's nothing subversive or progressive about the scene, it just reinforces the current mainstream opinion about the characters. It takes cheap shots at something that's already an easy target. Fighting against those sentiments and refuting the misconceptions in a humorous way, now that would be subversive. And let's not equate stupid jokes with adult humor.

There's this trend in recent Disney movies where a more heartfelt approach to a story is taking a back seat to comedy (or rather, what the studio writers think is comedic). Every touching or sober scene needs to have needless comedy bits inserted in it, to the point where it ruins the mood and almost becomes a parody. It originated in Marvel movies, spread to Disney, and then infected Star Wars as well. I see no reason why a touching but still humorous tribute scene to the princesses couldn't have been developed instead. Then again, it probably wouldn't have fit the tone of the movie. I don't think preserving their legacy was ever the reason for inclusion of the princesses anyway.

[WarriorDreamer]

Something else that bothers me about the princess scene is that their personalities have been condensed into a single defining trait. They have been so stereotyped here they've turned into caricatures of themselves. Ariel just wants to sing all the time, Pocahontas has her hair blowing in the wind, Belle is bookish, Mulan fights with a sword etc. Not to mention, Walt's princesses have been completely rendered into a (meta) joke because their original personalities weren't convenient or funny or progressive enough for them.

That is exactly what I meant when I said Shrek 3 stuff. One plot had all the princesses together and it was making a mockery of them and their characters. They gave them each personality disorders if you remember the film? Since Disney is a big company who has ownership over their version of the characters I hope they simply protect the integrity of them in the original films, just like they do in Kingdom Hearts and not make a complete mockery/parody of them and their characters. I mentioned Shrek 3 because they already did that, but that wasn't Disney princesses, that was Shreks version of princesses. I don't see any need to make the princesses look like idiots.

[Sotiris]

Serious or not, there's nothing subversive or progressive about the scene, it just reinforces the current mainstream opinion about the characters. It takes cheap shots at something that's already an easy target. Fighting against those sentiments and refuting the misconceptions in a humorous way, now that would be subversive.

Well said! My feelings exactly.

Perhaps Rich Moore is not the right person to work at Disney if he's determined to be cynical about Disney and its legacy.

While I like Rich Moore, we need to acknowledge that he never would have worked for Disney if it hadn't been for Lasseter. It's because of his relationship with Lasseter from CalArts he was hand-picked for the director's position on the first Wreck-It Ralph. Up until then, he had only done some minor TV work and wasn't on Disney's radar. Not only was he instantly hired at WDAS, he bypassed the established hierarchy there and went straight to directing features without any prior credits at the studio. It couldn't have been easy for people who were working there for decades, playing by the rules and waiting their turn with the hope to get to direct one day, seeing an outsider like Rich get his own movie on his first day on the job due to nepotism.

[Tristy]

It's not just Disney. A lot of studios are doing this parody thing way too often and mocking anything that's sincere. I still haven't seen the Peter Rabbit movie but just watching those trailers were enough to sink my spirits as someone who grew up with the Beatrix Potter books and never once had issues if they weren't considered "masculine enough".

It is funny how one of you mentioned the adult humor because yeah it's definitely more juvenile today than it's ever been. Some people bash the early Disney films for being too childish and praise the modern ones being more adult when really they're having it all backwards.

[Sotiris]

Rich Moore clearly doesn't understand these characters or care about their legacy.

We said, “So many people have a good time taking the air out of the princesses. Why can’t we have some fun at our own expense?” Knowing what we do about the characters and the legacy behind them, we [knew we] could do the best satire of these characters ever.

These characters are weird. [Laughs] They’re not just pretty women in dresses. There are some strange background stories to them that people forget, because how many people really dive into the story of Snow White or Cinderella anymore? It felt good to bring them up to date, or usher some of the older ones into 2018, and really shine a light on [the truth of their circumstances]. It was nice to both remind people of those, and then have some fun on our end with the tropes of those stories.

Source: https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202504598/

Rich Moore: As I've said it before, I don't relate to Snow White. I don't relate to Cinderella that much. I get why they're compelling characters, but they feel like they're from such a different time.

Q: Because they are. But not with a shattered slipper.

Rich Moore: [Laughing] That's right. Suddenly, it feels contemporary!

Source: https://www.awn.com/animationworld/brea ... it-ralph-2


God bless Tom MacDougall! He was the one who suggested Menken write the song. It's a little odd though how the filmmakers wanted a '90s Disney musical-type of song but didn't think of him themselves.

Q: Let’s talk about the original song you’d mentioned, “A Place Called Slaughter Race,” written by Alan Menken. Again, we have a self-aware character moment, with Vanellope giving us her take on a type of song fundamental to musical theater.

Rich Moore: The song was always the B-side to the princess scene. We would talk about it like, “Okay, we’re going to have the song where Vanellope is this princess. It’s kind of an ‘I want’ song. Usually they’re early in a movie, but since her awakening happens in Act 2, it would be this great ‘I want’ song that’s taking place in a Grand Theft Auto world, this lawless video game world. We’re not going to play it as [if] the lyrics are trying to make a joke of it, or the characters are aware that they’re in a funny song; the emotions are all from the heart.” Especially just the fact that it’s taking place in such a rough neighborhood, and this is a world that she’s dreaming of, the comedy would come out of there. We would say, “It should really feel like a second-golden-age, ’90s-Alan-Menken-type song. Who could we get to do this kind of song?” We were talking to our VP of music, Tom MacDougall, and he’s like, “Well guys, I could just call Alan Menken if you’d like. That is an option.”

Source: https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202504598/

Q: What was your directive to Alan Menken when you brought him onboard to write Vanellope’s song “A Place Called Slaughter Race”? And which previous Disney songs were big inspirations?

Phil Johnston: Definitely “Be Our Guest” and “Belle,” meeting the townsfolk. There’s a song from Hercules that didn’t make the cut, but it was referenced. And for Alan, the biggest thing we just said was, “Treat this like a real ‘I want’ song.” Any comedy that was to be had should be coming from a juxtaposition of tones, because for Vanellope, it’s a real song where she really wants what she’s singing about, and for her it’s not a joke.

Rich Moore: It’s a Disney princess singing about Grand Theft Auto as if it’s the perfect world, although I don’t remember if Alan knew what that game was. But in the beginning we showed him a very, very rough cut of an animatic that we used. It was just temp music that Phil and [executive music producer] Tom MacDougall found, and they wrote the lyrics to match this music that they had, but we played it for Alan when he came in and we’re like, “Well, what do you think?” And he said, “It’s about 30 percent of the way there.” [Laughs.] We were happy to get to 30 percent.

Source: https://ew.com/movies/2018/11/29/ralph- ... directors/

Johnston’s song, “A Place Called Slaughter Race,” is an ode to a violent online video game that satirizes classic Disney princess anthems typically written by Alan Menken. But in a stroke of luck, they actually got Menken to help write the song. So for Johnston, the song had to work on multiple levels as both a good song and something that could serve the story.

“The key is I don’t think of it as a parody at all,” Johnston said of the song. “It feels like a parody, but honestly, we needed that earnest thing, and Sarah’s [Silverman] character Vanellope is technically a princess, and this is the ultimate princess song, even though it takes place in ‘Grand Theft Auto.'”

Source: https://www.thewrap.com/how-movie-songs ... lms-video/

[Sotiris]

The sequel is exceeding expectations at the box office. Should we prepare ourselves for WiR 3?

‘Ralph Breaks The Internet’ To Score Disney’s 12th No. 1 Thanksgiving Weekend Win With $70M
https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202505373/

‘Ralph Breaks The Internet’ Takes $3.8M Besting ‘Coco’ & ‘Moana’
https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202505947/

[thedisneyspirit]

And actually poignant stuff like Moana and Coco (creative films that try to represent oppressed minorities) get surpassed by this product placement junk...Then again, Disnerds, Princess freaks and "muh Rich Moore" fanboys probably have no account for taste.

Besides, people are deluding themselves if they think these jokes are anywhere near as creative as the ones on the Simpsons. Seriously, every undergrad writer on Buzzfeed can cook these up. Like, what, Cracked, Tumblr, CollegeHumor? They all did it. They're as stale as they come.

Making fun of the new princesses would be revolutionary instead, tbh. How Moana is a bland token Mary Sue-ish, how Elsa Is an insulting representation of mental illnesses, how Merida is selfish and bratty, how Anna is so dumb she sets feminism back, how Tiana, the first black princess, is an animal for most of her movie...

[Sotiris]

Besides, people are deluding themselves if they think these jokes are anywhere near as creative as the ones on the Simpsons. Seriously, every undergrad writer on Buzzfeed can cook these up. Like, what, Cracked, Tumblr, CollegeHumor? They all did it. They're as stale as they come.

So true!

[Tristy]

The sequel is exceeding expectations at the box office. Should we prepare ourselves for WiR 3?

‘Ralph Breaks The Internet’ To Score Disney’s 12th No. 1 Thanksgiving Weekend Win With $70M
https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202505373/

‘Ralph Breaks The Internet’ Takes $3.8M Besting ‘Coco’ & ‘Moana’
https://deadline.com/2018/11/ralph-brea ... 202505947/

And what's that going to have? A scene that turns the earlier scary Disney villains into complete jokes?

[RyGuy]

I'm in the minority on this issue. I was at D23 last summer and saw the princess scene complete with feral Meeko, visually challenged Snow, and asthmatic Jasmine. I found the scene really funny. I viewed that scene as the company poking a bit of fun at itself and that wasn't limited to princesses. Even Star Wars and Marvel (and Stan Lee) received a little bit of Disney self-deprecation too. Yes the concept was irreverent, but in my view, irreverence was a big part of the charm of the original Wreck It Ralph (for those who liked the film, like me). That's why there were concepts like Qdot being a panhandler because his game was unplugged, and Bowser and Clyde getting in touch with their feelings at Bad-Anon. For me, I didn't view he D23 scene as mocking the sincerity of the original princess films/concepts, so much as it was just being consistent with the first movie and essentially the filmmakers saying "Hey we are equal opportunity smart asses."

I did see the film last night with the toned down princess scene. While perhaps it was more respectful to the princesses, it just didn't seem funny so it was pointless. And the final scene with the princesses didn't impress me either. I'd rather they kept the scene as it originally was at D23, or just deleted the concept altogether. The movie would still have worked without a visit to Oh My Disney.

The movie was ok, but I don't see it becoming a classic (other than Disney designating it officially so). On a positive note, at least there was no surprise villain.

[thedisneyspirit]

And what's that going to have? A scene that turns the earlier scary Disney villains into complete jokes?

I mean Disney has done that...But it can work with villains. With the princesses it's tied to gender politics and feminism and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of women who liked the princesses or have more feminine interests and attitudes and are now being ridiculed for it.

[disneyprincess11]

Thanks, D82. Dang, I purposely let myself sit this out and read the comments all day. I think this is literally the most hatred I've seen over anything (minus Lasseter and weirdly enough, Lin). I'm impressed But, I really love your passions that you guys clearly have for Disney

If it helps, I hated how Merida was portrayed. She is literally nothing, but a joke. She only says one line (in a exaggerated and faster accent) and then the Pixar joke comes up. I'm surprised Kelly approved of that. Good idea for a joke, poorly and (you can even say) tastelessly executed. Hopefully when there's a spin-off (It's going to happen at some point), Merida is done much better. Yes, she helps save Ralph, but she doesn't contribute anything. Good news for me is that Aurora doesn't sleep anymore during the scene, minus the beginning.

Plus, let me contribute to the anger The reason why Felix and Calhoun are barely in the movie because "they didn't had the time to put them in," which makes no sense. Come on, one scene in the middle wouldn't have hurt. Between Slaughter Race and BuzzTube would have been a great spot. It's really too bad and actually infuriating that the princesses were protoized over two main characters

Played by Jack McBrayer and Jane Lynch, Fix-It Felix and Sgt. Calhoun were two of the most important supporting characters in 2012's Wreck-It Ralph - but their roles are definitely diminished in the new sequel. While they do appear at both the beginning and end of Ralph Breaks The Internet, they're absent for the majority of the film. This may be upsetting news for those who fell in love with the duo in the first feature, but co-director Phil Johnston recently explained the very simple reason why their parts aren't bigger in the follow-up:

The Felix and Calhoun stuff is truly some of my favorite bits in the movie, but simply because we needed to make a 90 minute film and also stay with Ralph and Vannelope, who are our protagonists, it was just getting to be too long and it was creating too many bumps in the story.

Killing your darlings is hard but necessary work in feature film making, given that it's a medium with limited narrative real estate, and that's the basic story behind what happened to Felix and Calhoun in Ralph Breaks The Internet. Apparently directors Phil Johnston and Rich Moore came up with some great stuff for the characters during the storybuilding process at Walt Disney Animation Studios, but when it came to piecing the final movie together it wasn't material that made the finished cut.

Rich Moore not only revealed that there was initially going to be more Felix and Calhoun check-ins, but also discussed an early idea for a subplot that would have seen the worlds of the internet and Game Central Station linked together via a specific new character. Said Moore,

We spent more time with Felix and Calhoun during the second act, kind of seeing how they were fairing with the racers as their children. There was, really way back, we had an idea where an anti-viral agent was following Ralph during the quest. And she went back to the arcade thinking that it was a sleeper cell of viruses that were going to attack the internet, and kind of put it under martial law. And we thought, 'Yeah, we can fit this all into 90 minutes. Simple!'

https://www.cinemablend.com/news/246191 ... nd-calhoun

That climax sounded amazing! At least Rich has a great mind for the drama (which he does in the movie). I hope it's in the deleted scenes

[DisneyFan09]

Something else that bothers me about the princess scene is that their personalities have been condensed into a single defining trait. They have been so stereotyped here they've turned into caricatures of themselves. Ariel just wants to sing all the time, Pocahontas has her hair blowing in the wind, Belle is bookish, Mulan fights with a sword etc. Not to mention, Walt's princesses have been completely rendered into a (meta) joke because their original personalities weren't convenient or funny or progressive enough for them.

True, but this tends to happen with most of their portrayals in their post-movies. Usually in other properties they tend to be stereotyped for their single defining trait. Perhaps you'll disagree, but that's how I see it.

Perhaps Rich Moore is not the right person to work at Disney if he's determined to be cynical about Disney and its legacy.

Which is ironic, since he seems like the complete opposite of a cynical guy. As the matter of fact, he comes across as extremely likable. But who knows?

The sequel is exceeding expectations at the box office. Should we prepare ourselves for WiR 3?

If that's so, then please let it be about video games, if you please.

[JeanGreyForever]

The sequel is exceeding expectations at the box office. Should we prepare ourselves for WiR 3?

Ugh, I think it's safe to say we can expect a spin-off featuring the princesses. I'm sure Disney will give Ralph and Vanellope a cameo with the same respect that Felix and Calhoun got in this film.

Making fun of the new princesses would be revolutionary instead, tbh. How Moana is a bland token Mary Sue-ish, how Elsa Is an insulting representation of mental illnesses, how Merida is selfish and bratty, how Anna is so dumb she sets feminism back, how Tiana, the first black princess, is an animal for most of her movie...

Agreed. All these princesses could have been criticized as well but Disney purposefully portrayed them as the empowered princesses who look down on the other ones. It would have been better if the scene had just used the Lasseter era princesses since they're all so irreverent anyway that they wouldn't be out of place. Yet, at the end of the day, the classics are Snow White, Cinderella, Ariel, etc. not Tiana, Merida, or Moana.

[Sotiris]

Ugh, I think it's safe to say we can expect a spin-off featuring the princesses.

Oh, God. I hope not. The very idea gives me shivers. It is plausible though. Not only the movie is performing really well at the box office, the merch for the Wrecked Princesses is selling out.

After the “Ralph Breaks the Internet” screening, executives worried that too many toys and apparel around the edgier version of the princesses could overshadow the traditional representations, according to a person familiar with the matter. Retailers expressed interest in princess dolls and clothes pegged to the “Ralph” release, this person said. Disney put together some merchandise, including a doll set featuring the princesses in everyday clothes as well as shirts for young girls modeled after the princesses’ pajamas. After fans embraced the scene, some Disney executives questioned why they hadn’t pushed even more product around it.

Source: https://www.wsj.com/articles/beauty-and ... 1542430801