you must not lurk at Tumblr then. Trust me they hate the guy.And I don't think there is anyone who hates Hans?
The first point is subjective(that's fair,) the 2nd I respectfully disagree with.They just don't believe the character should be redeemed or that he has any further purpose to this story.
Oh wow..... I am not ready for the emotional power of this song!D82 wrote:Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez give us a sneak peek at "Show Yourself" in a new interview: https://youtu.be/V5nK8BW7nBk?t=98
Oh, no. There are pockets of haters for all characters somewhere in the world though. Some hate Elsa, many hate Anna, many, many hate Olaf. I think Kristoff's the only one I haven't seen or heard much hatred for?unprincess wrote: you must not lurk at Tumblr then. Trust me they hate the guy.
I do agree to disagree, respectfully, but just out of curiosity, what story could you see being told with Hans? The only gain I can think of is getting to hear more of Santino Fontana.The first point is subjective(that's fair,) the 2nd I respectfully disagree with.
Well, it was because someone mentioned that that type of ending seemed to be the new trope for Disney and Pixar films, so I immediately thought of a separation between the main characters because that's what happened in the last two animated movies from the company: Ralph Breaks the Internet and Toy Story 4. But, don't worry, I know you guys didn't do it on purpose, and as I said, this time I'm truly glad I know how the movie ends. Also, probably I would've gotten spoiled anyway. I try not to read comments when I look for info on Youtube, tumblr, etc. (I don't mind mild spoilers, but I try to avoid major ones), but sometimes there are also spoilery images or titles that you can't avoid, and lately I've seen some things that led me to believe the ending I imagined was indeed true.JeanGreyForever wrote:Oh wow, I didn't realize it was so obvious from reading the comments that weren't blocked out. I'm sorry that we might have spoiled your experience even if you're glad now that you're prepared.
I wouldn't say instrumental. They said that working on Frozen Fever made them realize they wanted to revisit the characters and the Frozen universe. Not that there was any narrative connection between them. I feel the whole 'it's not canon' thing is their way of projecting and reaffirming their belief that Frozen 1 & 2 are just one big movie. There was a clear intent on their part when they were doing press to convince us the two films were conceived together as one from the start (even though that's obviously not the case).JeanGreyForever wrote:I find it really odd that they disavowed the two shorts especially since they were involved in making those and even said that those shorts were instrumental in setting up Frozen 2 and were thus required viewing.
There's a difference between saying the shorts aren't required viewing and (erroneously) claiming they aren't canon. The former means you don't need to watch the shorts prior to watching the sequel to understand what's going on whereas the latter means you don't consider the events from those shorts as ever taking place.farerb wrote:I never thought the shorts would be consequential to Frozen II. If they had claimed the shorts are important for Frozen II, then they were lying.
You make a good point. There's a three-year gap between the events of the original and the sequel so if you've never watched the shorts, Elsa feeling out of place seems more natural as you assume she's been feeling that way a long time. In contrast, if you watch the shorts where Elsa looks happy and content with life in the palace and is at peace being among her people, her feeling out of place comes off as more jarring and unexpected.unprincess wrote:The shorts were retconned into being non canon b/c it conflicts with Elsa characterization in the sequel. She seems happy and comfortable with being queen in the shorts but the 2nd film she's supposedly doesn't feel uncomfortable being queen which is why she ends up feeling more like herself and at ease when she become a spirit in the enchanted forest and leaves her position as queen to Anna.
Thanks for sharing that! Sounds very promising. This has now become my most anticipated song of the soundtrack.D82 wrote:Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez give us a sneak peek at "Show Yourself" in a new interview.
It's not just those. How to Train Your Dragon 3 and Maleficent 2 did that as well. I don't think one copied the other. This is a result of a broader way of thinking about storytelling lately. I've been exposed to a lot of discourse online (sometimes against my willD82 wrote:Speaking of the ending, I wonder which of the three movies (Ralph Breaks the Internet, Toy Story 4 or Frozen 2) came up first with the idea of the main characters parting ways at the end and which ones copied it.
) where the traditional villain is deemed old-fashioned and banal but stories where the conflict is internal and show a character having to deal with difficult choices are exalted as high-quality storytelling. I don't subscribe to that school of thought as it all depends on execution and any trope can become tiresome and over-exposed, but this is what a number of cinephiles believe. Coupling that with the reality of sequels where stakes need to be higher and the outcome consequential to justify their existence, a separation seems the natural direction since you can't kill off your characters in a family-friendly franchise.
Source: https://lifeascaty.tumblr.com/post/1889 ... ly-startedI was like ‘wtf’ when I started getting messages about Hans and people wanting to know how big his role is etc. etc. I was so confused where anyone was getting this from but I googled and saw articles talking about the voice actor’s name being listed. All I’ll say is, I wouldn’t expect new dialogue, guys. There’s an after-credits scene featuring Olaf. It’s cute.
WTFSotiris wrote:Major spoilers about Anna and Elsa.
Elsa goes deeper into the glacier, she knows it’s a risk, but she wants to have all the answers and she goes deeper and deeper and "dies". So yeah, Grand Pabbie’s warning was true! Without Anna she loses herself. But Elsa is able to send a message to Anna, telling her what to do. Anna goes and destroys the dam. But since Elsa was a gift from the spirits to Agnarr and Iduna (for some reasons we’ll see), when Anna does the right thing by destroying the dam, the spirits decide to save Elsa and she comes back to life.
Source: https://hereisisa.tumblr.com/post/18898 ... m-somebody
Source: https://justlookatthosesausages.tumblr. ... alt-disney01. Prologue
02. Time for bed
03. All Is Found
04. Pumpkin patch
05. Some Things Never Change
06. Charades
07. Pillow talk
08. Into The Unknown
09. Elemental vacuum
10. Trolling along
11. Travelling north
12. The mist
13. Meet the Enchanted Forest
14. When I Am Older
15. The wind spirit
16. Ice has memory
17. Meet the people
18. Fire and ice
19. Vuelie
20. Fireside chat
21. Hot tea
22. Giant close call
23. Lost In The Woods
24. The ship
25. Sister split
26. Spinning
27. River pit
28. Dark sea
29. Show Yourself
30. Gone too far
31. The last clue
32. Snow melt
33. Fading away
34. The Next Right Thing
35. Wake up!
36. The flood
37. The forest is free
38. Reunion
39. Epilogue
This is why PIXAR was propped up as sensational--and Disney derided--for years and years, and it's also why Disney can't make a good villain to save their lives anymore. Which is all pretty funny considering Ghibli was much better at creating vivid, diverse stories that often lack traditional villains than PIXAR has ever been. The truth is there is room for all kinds of different stories, but we've got to the point where everything being pumped out at Disney, whether it's WDAS or PIXAR, is all of ONE type and it's been going on for 10 years now that they've both been doing it simultaneously, and 10 years more before that of PIXAR's own history. They've far surpassed the '90s Renaissance in terms of being formulaic for a long period of time. And it doesn't look to be changing any time soon.Sotiris wrote:It's not just those. How to Train Your Dragon 3 and Maleficent 2 did that as well. I don't think one copied the other. This is a result of a broader way of thinking about storytelling lately. I've been exposed to a lot of discourse online (sometimes against my willD82 wrote:Speaking of the ending, I wonder which of the three movies (Ralph Breaks the Internet, Toy Story 4 or Frozen 2) came up first with the idea of the main characters parting ways at the end and which ones copied it.
It's interesting that Disney has been going this route for all their latest sequels. It makes me think that if we get Zootopia 2 anytime soon we can pretty much call it now that Judy and Nick will be separated from each other by the end of the film for whatever reason. I haven't been keeping up with Frozen 2's spoilers beyond the information posted here but I did encounter the leaked ending on Twitter and some YouTube comments so I'm glad I was already aware of the spoilers beforehand.D82 wrote:Well, it was because someone mentioned that that type of ending seemed to be the new trope for Disney and Pixar films, so I immediately thought of a separation between the main characters because that's what happened in the last two animated movies from the company: Ralph Breaks the Internet and Toy Story 4. But, don't worry, I know you guys didn't do it on purpose, and as I said, this time I'm truly glad I know how the movie ends. Also, probably I would've gotten spoiled anyway. I try not to read comments when I look for info on Youtube, tumblr, etc. (I don't mind mild spoilers, but I try to avoid major ones), but sometimes there are also spoilery images or titles that you can't avoid, and lately I've seen some things that led me to believe the ending I imagined was indeed true.JeanGreyForever wrote:Oh wow, I didn't realize it was so obvious from reading the comments that weren't blocked out. I'm sorry that we might have spoiled your experience even if you're glad now that you're prepared.
Anyway, it wasn't my intention to complain, I only brought that up because I wanted you to know that you hadn't accidentally spoiled the ending for me in your last comment; that I already knew it. On the contrary, I'm actually really grateful because since Disney Duster complained about the parts not hidden under spoilers still revealing things, I've noticed that everybody has been extra careful in that regard and I really appreciate it.
Speaking of the ending, I wonder which of the three movies (Ralph Breaks the Internet, Toy Story 4 or Frozen 2) came up first with the idea of the main characters parting ways at the end and which ones copied it. Chris Buck said back in 2015 that they already knew how they wanted the story to end.
There was an article or interview posted on this site around the time of Olaf's Frozen Adventure where the filmmakers said that both shorts were laying essential groundwork for the characters of Elsa and Anna that would lead up to the sequel. Interesting how they've pivoted from that now.Sotiris wrote:I wouldn't say instrumental. They said that working on Frozen Fever made them realize they wanted to revisit the characters and the Frozen universe. Not that there was any narrative connection between them. I feel the whole 'it's not canon' thing is their way of projecting and reaffirming their belief that Frozen 1 & 2 are just one big movie. There was a clear intent on their part when they were doing press to convince us the two films were conceived together as one from the start (even though that's obviously not the case).JeanGreyForever wrote:I find it really odd that they disavowed the two shorts especially since they were involved in making those and even said that those shorts were instrumental in setting up Frozen 2 and were thus required viewing.
Sotiris wrote:Thanks for sharing that! Sounds very promising. This has now become my most anticipated song of the soundtrack.D82 wrote:Kristen Anderson-Lopez and Robert Lopez give us a sneak peek at "Show Yourself" in a new interview.
You're right, those two movies also used that trope and they're also sequels. I hadn't considered why that trope is being used so much lately. What you said is really interesting and makes a lot of sense. I think you definitely have a point there. I still believe though, that it's possible that the creators of some of these titles may have been inspired by other movies to adopt that idea for the ending of their own films. Though it could've perfectly been as you say, and separately they all came to the conclusion that they needed an ending like that one for their sequels.Sotiris wrote:It's not just those. How to Train Your Dragon 3 and Maleficent 2 did that as well. I don't think one copied the other. This is a result of a broader way of thinking about storytelling lately. I've been exposed to a lot of discourse online (sometimes against my willD82 wrote:Speaking of the ending, I wonder which of the three movies (Ralph Breaks the Internet, Toy Story 4 or Frozen 2) came up first with the idea of the main characters parting ways at the end and which ones copied it.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened.JeanGreyForever wrote:It's interesting that Disney has been going this route for all their latest sequels. It makes me think that if we get Zootopia 2 anytime soon we can pretty much call it now that Judy and Nick will be separated from each other by the end of the film for whatever reason.
It occurred to me now that maybe Toy Story 3 was actually the film that started with this trend. There there's also a separation at the end between Andy and the toys.JeanGreyForever wrote:Toy Story 4 went through countless rewrites and there was even one ending where Woody didn't end up with either Buzz or Bo. I can't remember if there was ever a version where Woody didn't leave the gang behind or if that was something they eventually settled on. I don't know much about Frozen 2's production history so far so I'm not sure if this ending was always in the cards beyond what Chris Buck said. That's pretty early on considering it would only be 2 years (if not even less) since the original film had been released.
I also remember having read that, but I couldn't find that article. I found other two though about Olaf's Frozen Adventure that seem to contradict that:JeanGreyForever wrote:There was an article or interview posted on this site around the time of Olaf's Frozen Adventure where the filmmakers said that both shorts were laying essential groundwork for the characters of Elsa and Anna that would lead up to the sequel. Interesting how they've pivoted from that now.
Source: https://collider.com/olafs-frozen-adven ... roy-conli/Do you see this short as a bridge between the first film and the eventual sequel, or is each its own piece of the larger picture?
CONLI: We set out to further the mythos of Arendelle and their relationship. For the first several months, as we were developing, we had Jennifer Lee, Chris Buck and Peter [Del Vecho] come in about every two weeks. We’d say, “This is where we’re going,” and they’d say, “Well, Olaf wouldn’t do this.” There was a point where we said, “We need to have a little leeway,” and we had this wonderful negotiation process. I think the world now is a little more open for Arendelle. I think that [Jennifer], as she’s writing Frozen 2, will probably subconsciously have some inspiration come out of what happened [in the short].
Source: https://theplaylist.net/jennifer-lee-fr ... cb-contentI’m gonna ask about the big elephant in the room, then. A “Frozen” short, “Olaf’s Frozen Adventure,” screene d in front of “Coco” and it didn’t have the greatest reaction. Did you guys learn any lessons from that that you’ve taken into writing the script for the feature sequel? Or are you not worrying about that?
LEE: We’re not worrying about it. I haven’t actually seen it, so.
Oh, well that’s the perfect answer!
LEE: I haven’t. It was a different team and I’m great for them, but I did actually feel like I couldn’t [see it]. I was so deeply in “Frozen 2” in terms of my creative process and my world is those films and what that journey is with those girls and I felt like the ideas for doing that was wonderful. Go ahead, but I worried about that very thing that I don’t want to do that. Because I don’t want to be holden to anything. So, I didn’t see it.
Except in TS3, we always knew that Andy would have to part with the toys. Woody was the only one he might have kept. And the main relationship in the Toy Story films has always been that of Woody and Buzz. They are the duo of the film like Elsa and Anna or Ralph and Vanellope.D82 wrote:It occurred to me now that maybe Toy Story 3 was actually the film that started with this trend. There there's also a separation at the end between Andy and the toys.JeanGreyForever wrote:Toy Story 4 went through countless rewrites and there was even one ending where Woody didn't end up with either Buzz or Bo. I can't remember if there was ever a version where Woody didn't leave the gang behind or if that was something they eventually settled on. I don't know much about Frozen 2's production history so far so I'm not sure if this ending was always in the cards beyond what Chris Buck said. That's pretty early on considering it would only be 2 years (if not even less) since the original film had been released.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembered reading that then. Maybe that article was one that interviewed the team making Olaf's Frozen Adventure who felt it was necessary for the sequel that they wouldn't necessarily be privy to because it becomes clear from Jennifer Lee's comments that the two films were independently made from each other.D82 wrote:I also remember having read that, but I couldn't find that article. I found other two though about Olaf's Frozen Adventure that seem to contradict that:JeanGreyForever wrote:There was an article or interview posted on this site around the time of Olaf's Frozen Adventure where the filmmakers said that both shorts were laying essential groundwork for the characters of Elsa and Anna that would lead up to the sequel. Interesting how they've pivoted from that now.
Source: https://collider.com/olafs-frozen-adven ... roy-conli/Do you see this short as a bridge between the first film and the eventual sequel, or is each its own piece of the larger picture?
CONLI: We set out to further the mythos of Arendelle and their relationship. For the first several months, as we were developing, we had Jennifer Lee, Chris Buck and Peter [Del Vecho] come in about every two weeks. We’d say, “This is where we’re going,” and they’d say, “Well, Olaf wouldn’t do this.” There was a point where we said, “We need to have a little leeway,” and we had this wonderful negotiation process. I think the world now is a little more open for Arendelle. I think that [Jennifer], as she’s writing Frozen 2, will probably subconsciously have some inspiration come out of what happened [in the short].
Source: https://theplaylist.net/jennifer-lee-fr ... cb-contentI’m gonna ask about the big elephant in the room, then. A “Frozen” short, “Olaf’s Frozen Adventure,” screene d in front of “Coco” and it didn’t have the greatest reaction. Did you guys learn any lessons from that that you’ve taken into writing the script for the feature sequel? Or are you not worrying about that?
LEE: We’re not worrying about it. I haven’t actually seen it, so.
Oh, well that’s the perfect answer!
LEE: I haven’t. It was a different team and I’m great for them, but I did actually feel like I couldn’t [see it]. I was so deeply in “Frozen 2” in terms of my creative process and my world is those films and what that journey is with those girls and I felt like the ideas for doing that was wonderful. Go ahead, but I worried about that very thing that I don’t want to do that. Because I don’t want to be holden to anything. So, I didn’t see it.
Yes, you're right; that separation is a bit different than the others.JeanGreyForever wrote:Except in TS3, we always knew that Andy would have to part with the toys. Woody was the only one he might have kept. And the main relationship in the Toy Story films has always been that of Woody and Buzz. They are the duo of the film like Elsa and Anna or Ralph and Vanellope.
Yes, that's possible.JeanGreyForever wrote:I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembered reading that then. Maybe that article was one that interviewed the team making Olaf's Frozen Adventure who felt it was necessary for the sequel that they wouldn't necessarily be privy to because it becomes clear from Jennifer Lee's comments that the two films were independently made from each other.
Wow, I didn't know Lee didn't even have any part in the shorts.D82 wrote:Source: https://theplaylist.net/jennifer-lee-fr ... cb-contentI’m gonna ask about the big elephant in the room, then. A “Frozen” short, “Olaf’s Frozen Adventure,” screene d in front of “Coco” and it didn’t have the greatest reaction. Did you guys learn any lessons from that that you’ve taken into writing the script for the feature sequel? Or are you not worrying about that?
LEE: We’re not worrying about it. I haven’t actually seen it, so.
Oh, well that’s the perfect answer!
LEE: I haven’t. It was a different team and I’m great for them, but I did actually feel like I couldn’t [see it]. I was so deeply in “Frozen 2” in terms of my creative process and my world is those films and what that journey is with those girls and I felt like the ideas for doing that was wonderful. Go ahead, but I worried about that very thing that I don’t want to do that. Because I don’t want to be holden to anything. So, I didn’t see it.
She actually co-directed Frozen Fever with Chris Buck; that's why so many people were surprised when she claimed it's not canon. I understand saying that for OFA since she only worked on it as a consultant but saying it for the short she herself directed? That's weird.Disney's Divinity wrote:Wow, I didn't know Lee didn't even have any part in the shorts.
