The Universe has stomped on me thread. Rant or clear the air

[Disney's Divinity]

I didn’t realize how horrible this process must have been for you. I know my own mother has had a miscarriage before, and I’ve seen firsthand the emotional toll it can take, but I had been in Washington at the time it happened, so I never really knew how much physical pain there could be. I’m really glad you’re in a better place right now, at least physically.

[Sky Syndrome]

Had a miscarriage today.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

[Disney Duster]

Thank you for sharing more of the story of what happened to you enigmawing. That is more terrible than I could even think of, I had no idea, and I can't believe the nurses were like that when what happened to you was one of the worst imaginable things, but that's over and I am glad you are doing much better now, and hope you can return home soon.

Then wouldn't time travel be to make the current moment be a moment we thought was a past/future moment?

Um..., I'm going to have to admit to being dumb on this one. I don't get what you mean, ha.

I guess it would be like...rewinding everything.

I don't suppose many smart women would want to be with a guy who can provide zero security, no matter how she feels about him. It really depends on how she acts once I get settled into a job and apartment and all, if I'm able to pull that off.

Yea, that's actually a good idea.

Actually, yes, I seem to think about her every second. I honestly do. I believe that can be love, but it also can be other things. In this case though, I believe it is love. That doesn't say anything about how often she thinks about me. I have no idea on that, and some people take more time to fall in love. In fact, I believe some people, like myself, tend to only have a chance with someone who will take time to fall in love with them, and it is hard to find someone who will do that. Everyone wants that love at first sight thing (which translates to falling in love with someone you initially found extremely superficially attractive).

I have someone on my mind all the time, too, in a suppressed way because I wanted to get over them. I believe you may be in love, but what are the other things you think it could be? Infatuation and obsession? As for love at first sight, no, it doesn't automatically mean superficial physical attraction. Think of paintings that capture in one still image not just a figure but also their emotion, their goodness, their personality. Maybe when you see the right person, you really can feel you get a sense of so much of who they are, and that they are what you like and will be great for you. Maybe not, but it is up to you to believe true love at first sight is possible, if you don't, you can't say no one else has never experienced it. I know a girl who thought "that's him" as soon as she saw the biggest love of her life. They were a great couple inside and out. They did break up, but it was not just physical attraction, and there was love, and she still thinks about him even when having dated other guys. I feel bad for her, but she'll find someone too and it just goes to show you may have many loves before you find the best, right one for you.

Thanks, and that's great about your friend. Trouble is, I haven't seen ANY jobs around here that pay well (without some extreme qualifications required). Drawing is really the only thing I have ever proven good at so far, ha, but, yeah, at this point, I'd take anything I can get, especially if it paid well, but I am still just trying to get some interviews... Can't even seem to get those for the crappy, minimum wage jobs...

I guess I should have realized casinos aren't near everyone! Maybe you don't have to be good at something, maybe you can get a well-paying job you get for just being adequate. You didn't go to college, though? There may be some well-paying jobs you can get that require a very small, minimal education that you take only a few classes for.

[slave2moonlight]

I have someone on my mind all the time, too, in a suppressed way because I wanted to get over them. I believe you may be in love, but what are the other things you think it could be? Infatuation and obsession? As for love at first sight, no, it doesn't automatically mean superficial physical attraction. Think of paintings that capture in one still image not just a figure but also their emotion, their goodness, their personality. Maybe when you see the right person, you really can feel you get a sense of so much of who they are, and that they are what you like and will be great for you. Maybe not, but it is up to you to believe true love at first sight is possible, if you don't, you can't say no one else has never experienced it. I know a girl who thought "that's him" as soon as she saw the biggest love of her life. They were a great couple inside and out. They did break up, but it was not just physical attraction, and there was love, and she still thinks about him even when having dated other guys. I feel bad for her, but she'll find someone too and it just goes to show you may have many loves before you find the best, right one for you.

Oh, in my case, I don't doubt it is love. I have been through infatuation and obsession, and all that other stuff before, ha. But, yeah, that is what I meant before, but I was talking about feelings that feel like love in general, not specifically about my current situation.

In regards to "true" love at first sight, I'm not saying it can't happen, but that I don't believe it happens the way people who "believe" in it think it happens. When you first see someone, you don't know them, plain and simple. You can get a feeling/impression from them, and you can fall for that, but only time will tell if it is accurate or not. People who get lucky in that regard get to go around saying they fell in love at first sight.

I DO believe you can fall in true love rather quickly though. I think of that first date I had with the girl I'm in love with. We were both very nervous through the movie we went to, and then we got to a diner and couldn't stop talking to each other. Of course, some people are more open to falling in love, so they fall faster. I have gotten the impression that guys generally fall much faster than girls, and I think it's because guys don't have quite as many qualifications that need to be met, ha, and aren't as distrusting either.

I guess I should have realized casinos aren't near everyone! Maybe you don't have to be good at something, maybe you can get a well-paying job you get for just being adequate. You didn't go to college, though? There may be some well-paying jobs you can get that require a very small, minimal education that you take only a few classes for.

Ha, I doubt I would have a knack for gaming/card dealing anyway. At least, I never have before. I did go to college, actually. I have a four-year bachelor's degree. But, ha, it's in Art. It has so far proven totally useless in helping me land a job of any kind. I always thought there were some jobs that just wanted someone with a college degree and it didn't matter in what, but I haven't seen any of those either. With my current financial situation though, any MORE education is out of the question. I still owe a heck of a lot, and I don't feel I have the luxury of time anymore either, ha.

[Rose Dome]

It's great to know that you're out of hospital wing

You're right about noone deserving such a horrible thing. Words just don't come easily when someone has been through something so dreadful

I don't have anything more to add beyond this. Regardless of what how your maternal life turns out in the future, your optimism and altruism will see you through. I can see already that as you move on from this nasty incident you will have hope and not be afraid to cry, to laugh, to ponder. You're too strong to be broken

[Goliath]

I know this thread is called "rant or clear the air", but I thought, for a change, why not share some positive news?

Today, I finally spoke to W. (the girl at my former job) in person. We met in a café where we had some drinks and we talked for a little over two hours. It was such a big relief to be able to talk all misunderstandings over and get them out of the way. It turns out that my suspicion was correct: a lot of my (female) co-workers had been bad-talking me to her; they kept asking her what I "wanted from her" and why I was "constantly following her around" etc., up to the point that they drove her crazy. But, she told me, she started to suspect that I wanted more from her as well (despite me having explicitly told the opposite), but she wanted to confront me about it at a time of her own choosing and she wasn't sure yet how to go about it... when her boyfriend beat her to it and send me that text message. She told me that, while I didn't realize it, my interest in her was a bit... much. But she understood my intentions were all good and she had never thought bad of me. And that part about her being annoyed by my text messages was something her boyfriend had made up. She was still pissed at him about that.

It was so good to see W. again and to clear the air and have a good conversation again. I'm so glad I didn't take the advice of some of my co-workers, who said I should have stopped all contact and ignore her and cut off all communication. I'm so glad I kept defending her, even when it looked like she didn't want to know me anymore. She just needed a little time to process everything and order her thoughts. I knew we would eventually work it all out.



To be honest, I have been confused about the situation before, as well. From time to time, I've questioned my own feelings as well. I asked myself: "Why do I care so much about this girl? Why do I enjoy her company that much? Why do I feel so crushed when she's in a bad place? Why do I have the need to defend and protect her so much?" But every time, ultimately (after much confusion), I came to the conclusion that it was not love. I am not and was not in love with her; nor was I even attracted to her. (That was a different girl at work.) I honestly can't see myself together with her in a romantic context, but I can't put my finger on it what this feeling is.

Anyway, today we had to say goodbye. She said this was not a goodbye and that we would talk to each other again, but I know how these things go. People will say: "we'll talk, we'll mail, we'll call" and then they never do. So I said it was up to her. Not because of a lack of interest on my part, but to know for sure that she really wants to see me again.

I had really been looking forward to this day and I felt really good about having talked everything over. But now I'm just feeling soooooooo empty. I will really miss her. It's silly; I knew this day would come eventually. My job there was considered only temporary by me, as well. I didn't want to stay there for long, so I knew I shouldn't get attached to anybody. Yet I still did. And now I'll probably never see her again and that thought just kills me...




*sigh*

[Rose Dome]

^ ^ ^

You have all my sympathy in regards to your job. I know from experiencing it during the last six months of 2010 that being unemployed feels pretty bad. You're intelligent though, and this is just a bump in the road. That's probably not what you want to hear at the moment, but I don't want to feel as if I'm just saying "Poor you".

On another note it's great to know that your friend wasn't taking cheapshots at you. While it's unfortunate that her boyfriend (I would dump him so fast ) and the other girls (I wouldn't want them as friends anymore ) were dissing you, you don't have to worry about them now

Gah! That sounds so unforgiving of me

To wrap this up, I hope things take a turn for the better

[Mooky]

enigmawing, there are no words of comfort I can offer to take away your pain, but just know that others do care and that I am very sorry for your loss. My thoughts are with you and your husband.

[Disney Duster]

Well Slave2moonlight, I'm sure your in love when this girl does also seem to feel that wya for you and you like her for so much more than just looks. I was wondering though, did you also actually lose sleep and appetite sometimes during your growing love for her?

I also must say your assesment of love at first sight sounds like that might be how it is, but some people do swear that they felt they knew from first sight, which I imagine can start that love feeling that just grows more and more as you get to know them, so, I dunno. I'm a love at first sight believer and hope it happens to me someday.

I also think that it is possible when people say they fell in love at first sight, they could mean they saw someone, were interested and got a feeling, and then as they talked to them other feelings grew and by the end of the night they were in love and that's what they mean by love at first sight. There is even science and statistics that back up that you can tell so much about a person on a first meeting that supports that kind of love at first sight. Which is why I also believe you can fall in love quickly, depending on the person, like you also said. I always thought women fell in love quicker than men. I don't know what to think of when I the guy I like said "I don't fall in love very easily at all" on his Facebook but three years ago when I rejected him he said "If you change your mind, remember love is going after what you really want" after like meeting him only three times. <3 You know, I think he didn't have many qualifications back then, maybe now he does.

I'm wondering why with your art degree you can't find places that just need a good drawer or designer for some ads or sites or something.

[slave2moonlight]

Well Slave2moonlight, I'm sure your in love when this girl does also seem to feel that wya for you and you like her for so much more than just looks. I was wondering though, did you also actually lose sleep and appetite sometimes during your growing love for her?

Yes, I did, though I don't think those are necessary experiences for something to be true love, except when you are concerned about it not coming together the way you hope. With the appetite thing, that's when I would lose it, when I was worried with how things were going. Losing sleep because I was too busy thinking about her was another issue though, ha. That could happen whether things were going good OR bad.

Unfortunately, the trouble with love is, it doesn't have to be mutual for it to be "true" or real. Yes, I'm in love with her, but unless her self described extreme shyness/nervousness is really the problem, it seems like she does not feel the same for me. It's so confusing for me, because, early on, she seemed to be falling for me the way I was for her, but she did a 180 on me overnight at one point. Actually, it was after I told her I loved her. This was some time back. We had been getting closer and closer, and it was going really well, but she was having a lot of trouble with her ex boyfriend, whom she was still living with. Well, after that (sorry if I told this story before), she started not being able to hang out with me. She was sick, or too busy, or stuff like that. She strung me along for a long time. Eventually, I had to leave to help take care of my dad, who was terminally ill. All the time I was gone, she was telling me how much she missed me and wanted to see me, right up till just before I got back (I was gone about a month, but for quite a while before that we hadn't seen each other because of her stalling). My dad ended up dying (last October), I was very sad, but I was looking forward to coming back and seeing her. I rushed back, and we finally got together. Her mood towards me had changed though. She told me shortly after that that she'd gotten back together with her ex. As far as I know, they are still a couple.

A couple weeks after getting back and having her hit me with that news, I went back to my parents' to help my mom out, as she had been diagnosed with cancer as well (different kind). I was still in touch with this girl, because I loved her and I didn't want to give up on her, knowing how well things were going for a while back when we were going on several dates (though we never kissed even; I haven't kissed anyone yet, actually, and maybe that was one of my mistakes here). Well, I got a glimmer of hope when she started telling me she was missing me a lot and thinking about me all the time. I, of course, was still thinking about her basically every second, as I had been since we met. One day, she sent me this long e-mail. It was largely her venting about her boyfriend, and how they really had nothing in common, how he would never have even thought about doing some of the things I had done with/for her and all, and how he was pretty much a jerk and all. Basically, how she wanted someone like me. That was frustrating (because she HAD me right there), but also gave me some hope. We kept in contact through the holidays. I was stuck down here, and she was out of Austin for a while too visiting her mother. Just recently, before I finally came back to Austin (this past Friday), she sent me another long e-mail that was full of casual stuff, but also setting up plans to hangout with me this Saturday. She told me how much she missed me and wanted to see me, and also dropped in a lot of things here and there that seemed to be poorly disguised "relationship probe" questions, ha, like if I was ever going to get a cell phone and similar stuff. Anyways, so, yeah, she seemed so eager to finally see me again yesterday, and I was dying to, even though I'm clueless as to her current relationship status. [I have to assume she is still back together with the live in boyfriend; I should mention though, that she doesn't really know anyone else around here (she's like me when it comes to making friends) and has no living options currently except for dorms, which I guess are out of the question now that she has pets and has brought more of her stuff over from home, and so, as we were getting closer I often discussed with her the idea of her sharing a place with me, largely because while she was broken up and dating me, the live-in ex was getting a bit violent; she didn't seem too keen on the idea most of the time, but other times seemed to be thinking about it, but mainly I wanted her to be in a safe place; maybe she thought I had ulterior motives.]

Anyways, so, I was quite happy that I was going to be seeing her yesterday. Once again, I rushed back up to Austin, even though my mom could have used my help AT LEAST for another week and her final radiation treatment. I even bought a cell phone Thursday night, because I knew that would please her, even though making next month's payment will be tough if I don't find a job soon. I was concerned though, because this was so much like when my dad died. I rushed up to be with her again after her telling me how much she was missing me, and it turned out so badly. Well, though it took a while for her to respond to my text about arriving yesterday, when she did, she seemed quite happy and excited to hangout! Things seemed to be looking good! But, as the night wore on, then it happened. No more responses to my texts for a long time, and then a text canceling our plans. Too busy. Can we just meet for a quick lunch tomorrow? Ugh. Not good. I'm convinced now that this is never going to happen. Seeing her again probably won't even happen. I'm pretty devastated right now, because just what I was worried would happen actually did happen.

And yet, because I am so in love with her, I can't seem to shake that hope. I know that she gets anxiety over getting together with people when she hasn't seen them in a long time or has never met them before. But, if it's something more than that, then it is really hopeless. After all, the guy she's with now, she didn't know him for very long and suddenly they were living together. She says it just takes her a looong time to warm up to people, but it didn't with that guy, and he hasn't even treated her well, while I've always treated her like a princess. It's very frustrating, and I certainly don't want to push her into a relationship, or talk her into one, so I'm feeling like it may be time to give up. But, I don't think I could ever be happy if I do. I don't think I could be happy without her, but I'm miserable this way too.

Well, I'll just leave it at that for now. I'll be surprised if we do get together tomorrow, er, today, for lunch. Actually, I have work to do, so I might not even be awake in time, ha. But, lunch dates? Isn't that the "friend zone" anyway? Or so they say. Argh, I left my copy of "Just Friends" at my mother's in my Christmas movie bin! I could really enjoy that movie right now. Anyways, hopefully she is just having a case of nerves and really did mean it all those times, even very recently, when she told me she missed me and wanted to see me badly. I know she is not in love with me right now. She has told me it takes her a long time to fall in love because she doesn't really trust people (though, again, she didn't waste any time with her current boyfriend), and I can never forget that one e-mail she wrote me and all the times we got along so well (despite claiming to be very shy, she was always talkative with me over our dinners). She has never told me she loved me, and like I said, we have never done more than hold hands and kinda/sorta cuddle (it's a bit hard because we don't have a couch at my sister's), but, sometimes she can be very encouraging... Other times, just the opposite. She can't warm up to me again if she'll never even spend time with me though. So, wish me luck for today, I guess, or next weekend.

I also must say your assesment of love at first sight sounds like that might be how it is, but some people do swear that they felt they knew from first sight, which I imagine can start that love feeling that just grows more and more as you get to know them, so, I dunno. I'm a love at first sight believer and hope it happens to me someday.

Well, that's kinda the same as what I was describing. You see someone you would like to fall in love with, and with some luck, it turns out they are a good match for you, and so you do start to fall in love, and so you get to cheat and say you had love at first sight, ha, but initially it just lust and was wishful thinking combined, and one of those books with a cover so clear you can judge them accurately by it.

Anyway, ya know, I think if I had my choice, and it's too late for this, but I think the nicest way would be to find the love of your life when you're a little kid. You know, like in some movies when a little boy and girl are best friends and they grow up spending all their time together and get married and all. They practically get to spend their entire lives together. I think that would be the nicest thing! That would be amazing! It does happen sometime, and if I could rewrite my own life, that's how I'd do it. Though, if I ended up with the girl I'm with now, I'd be just as happy. Though, it would have been nice to have grown up with her, too, if we were closer in age. Admittedly, we are not, and I don't want to go into that here because I don't believe that should be a big issue between two legal adults (my own parents, married over 40 years, had a 10 year age difference), and she has always said it is not an issue for her either, but perhaps it does add to her nervousness about getting close to me. She also has said my being overweight is not an issue for her, but, again, with all this reluctance, who knows in either case. Still... for a while we were having such lovely dates and BOTH of us were making plans to take things further. It was just when I told her I loved her that things suddenly changed...

I also think that it is possible when people say they fell in love at first sight, they could mean they saw someone, were interested and got a feeling, and then as they talked to them other feelings grew and by the end of the night they were in love and that's what they mean by love at first sight.

Well, I don't doubt that, it's something like what I experienced, but I just don't consider that love at first sight. Love on a first date, okay, I can buy that, ha, but initially it is attraction with high hopes again, and things just happening to go well. Another big thing, and this is probably a big part of the problem the girl I'm in love with has, is a person's openness to falling in love. You kind of have to allow yourself to develop feelings for someone. I mean, if you fight it, it's going to take longer, and you might lose the person by the time the inevitable realization that you can't win that fight.

I'm wondering why with your art degree you can't find places that just need a good drawer or designer for some ads or sites or something.

Know of any? Ha, I don't know, I have never discovered any. Of course, I don't do webdesign or things like that. I don't know the first thing about it. Even my comic strip's website is very weak in the webdesign area, just having to use the drag and drop option. But, I don't know of any places looking to hire folks that draw well, and I suppose the competition is pretty stiff for a job like that, not that I wouldn't leap at the chance to try for it. But, I haven't found anything like that. Of course, I also have to search in my general area (especially since I really want to be with this girl if at all possible). I did just relocate to the state capital, but it seems that this place is, like everywhere else, full of artists who are working at McDonald's and other jobs like that. I guess the reason I'm not getting even those jobs is because most of my "work experience" is freelancing and I'm entering my late thirties, while they would rather hire college students it seems... or people with families to support. I don't really know, I can only theorize at why I don't get job interviews and all. But, certainly I haven't seen any job listings seeking people who can just draw. Well, maybe a couple over the past year, which I did apply for, but I never heard back from them. I'm kind of at a loss at this point.

[Disney Duster]

I should say by the way I am sorry about you losing your dad and also that your mom had cancer treatments, and that all this went on while you were unsure about this new girl you love.

Like you, losing sleep made me realize I had true feelings for my guy and that I should go after him. But he doesn't seem to feel the same way, just like your girl, except...you and your girl have more in common and she has fun talking to you and doing things with you, and she kept saying she wanted to hang out with you, so that is all good for a real relationship...but then she started doing what my guy did, which was cancel on hanging out with me because she was too busy, including the last time she did it.

What things did she do that showed an interest in taking your relationship further? Because maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like there weren't many. : ( But she was still leading you on with the little things she did, and in a way I'm mad at her doing this to a good guy like you.

But did you have your lunch, and are their plans for more hanging out?

If not, I am awfully sorry. What sucks is that it's like our hearts often don't seem to understand that when someone doesn't love us the same way, we need to move on. We think we'll never have love again. But still, even though you are in love, even true love, the big thing, true true love lol is when two people are both in love with each other. And I'll even go as far as to say it's only when they are equally so, though one can never measure "how much in love" they are when you hit true love. It is the same for both, you must believe it is for it to work.

Your description of love at first sight using the word lust is not how I'd say it is. Whatever differences between your description and mine, I'm going to believe mine. I believe you can get that "whatever love at first sight is" without lust.

You're idea of the best relationship, or the one you want, being one where you are friends even since you were little, does sound nice but that's for you. I suppose because I felt a little lonely all my life for not having a friend who I felt was enough like me, there's something kind of nice about longing for that one and then finally finding them. It's romantic. Maybe I just love the romance of love at first sight or discovering "the one" so much. Or maybe I like that you have your own life you develop without them and then you find them perfectly fitting into your life and becoming your life. Or maybe I'm just icked out by the idea of having that kind of connection when you're little kids, even though when I was little I had little crushes on the guys my age but couldn't tell what it was! Because, I, like you, don't think age should matter too much, when you're the same age or when you're adults.

I really wish I knew of places that were just hiring good drawers. But I would think any company at all would have a need for that for some advertisements. Maybe magazines? I always thought any artist could just jump right into the advertising business and I heard so many that did web and media design. Maybe you should ask Disney if you can do some of their ads or books or something while at home. I'd like to do stuff like that!

But I know that you looked and you're probably going to tell me I didn't offer anything new to help you find a job. Sorry. : ( This makes me fearful for what I want to do since I was thinking about majoring in Art myself soon.

[slave2moonlight]

I should say by the way I am sorry about you losing your dad and also that your mom had cancer treatments, and that all this went on while you were unsure about this new girl you love.

Thanks, it was really bad timing, not that stuff like that can ever be convenient or even okay.

What things did she do that showed an interest in taking your relationship further? Because maybe I'm missing something, but it sounds like there weren't many. : ( But she was still leading you on with the little things she did, and in a way I'm mad at her doing this to a good guy like you.

Well, while we were seeing each other, for one thing, while it didn't take place over a long period of time, we still saw each other quite a bit. She was more and more eager to see me, I don't know how else to put it. She was very positive about it. She sometimes would ask me if I was still interested in her in "that way", I guess maybe because I had never tried anything. That was for two reasons. One, I don't have any experience "trying anything", not that I didn't want to (I suppose I'm very self conscious about my appearance too), and the other being that she had always told me she needed to take it very slowly. One of the bigger signs was that she asked me one night (over text) what my sexual experience had been, since we were "becoming closer". There were other things like that, and a lot of talk about spending the night when I got my own place and things like that. We were getting super close quickly. During that time, she broke up with the live-in boyfriend, and she started having a lot of problems with him as she TRIED to be just a roommate with him. A couple of times, she contacted me saying she might need me to come get her. She was always reluctant though, partly because I was staying with my sister (still am, though I hope to get my own place soon; my sis moves out very soon...). The situation with her ex boyfriend was worrying me a lot, and I was starting to talk a lot about us getting a place together, but I'm not sure she was very comfortable with that. Maybe because we hadn't seen each other THAT long and maybe she didn't want to get in with someone new when the first one obviously wasn't working out. The guy was coming out to be pretty psycho, even having to go to a psychiatrist, who diagnosed him with schizophrenia and other stuff. But, he, his parents, and even the psychiatrist were putting pressure on her to stay with him... Anyways, so, she and I were really getting close, but she had this drama going on of sort of feeling "trapped", because this guy (and me) were the only people in town she knew, she said. Anyways, when the guy got medicated and started to calm down, after I saw her again, well, I was still very concerned about her safety, which was the only reason I'd ask her to get a place with me THAT soon, and I confessed to her that I loved her, and I guess she wasn't quite ready for that. After that, she could never find the time to get together with me. Before long, I had to go home to help out for a month or so. My dad ended up dying, which was what prolonged my stay. I rushed back though, determined to spend Halloween with her, as we'd planned. She promised we'd see each other right when I got back, and we did, but it was a very discouraging date. I confronted her about it online, and she said she had decided not to date me, and she actually gave me some accusatory reasons why. Most of them did not hold water, and I pointed out why. She finally confessed that she had gotten back together with the live-in boyfriend. This was pretty disturbing and confusing to me, because she and I really, REALLY clicked together, as she had said herself after our very first date. Plus, this guy had treated her so badly when we were dating... They were having MAJOR problems. Anyways, I was pretty devastated. I went back home after Halloween to help my mom out and spend the holidays with her, but I kept in touch with this girl, because I was totally in love, so I wasn't going to totally give up yet. She kept in touch and told me she missed me A LOT and thought about me all the time. Soon after that, she wrote me this long e-mail all about, basically, it was all about how her boyfriend wasn't that great because he was nothing like me. It was more involved than that, but it was very encouraging for me. Also a bit frustrating though, ha. As we texted and e-mailed each other over these past holidays, she told me often that she missed me and wanted to see me. She has never been one to say she loves me yet, or to throw compliments at me, just the sort of stuff I just described, but she also has never asked me not to say such things to her. The last time she texted me before I came up here, she said, "I miss you, come home soon!" And I did just a couple days after. That was Friday. We had plans to meed on Saturday for about a week, but she couldn't make it again. Sunday, when she said we would have lunch, she said she only had a small window of time to get together. Well, I finally said, "Let's just do it on a different day then."

The thing is, it is hard to know if she is just nervous to see me, because she does have an issue of being very shy, and according to her, having not seen me for a long time sort of refreshes the shyness for her. She says it's a major social anxiety she has, and even when we were going to meet for the first time, she did this canceling a lot first, and finally said it was just because of that. She just asked me to be patient with her that first time, and eventually, we got together. But, it is hard to be patient right now, because we've spent time together before, and the last time she started canceling the get togethers, she ended up getting back together with the ex... What's extra frustrating right now is that she is still living with him, and as far as I know, they are still boyfriend and girlfriend. I don't know that 100 percent for sure though. It's been rather confusing, and there's know way I could get all the details typed out here. Not all the details of why I know there is something there for the both of us, nor all the details of why it's been so complicated. You would have to experience it first hand. But, bottom line is there could be good reasons why she is not meeting up with me right now. The reason she gives is that she is busy with school and stuff (she just started back last week), and that could be very true. It's just so frustrating that I never get to see her, but the other guy, a known jerk, gets to full on live with her and probably even be in a relationship with her. Argh! It's caused me tons of anxiety, but I want to see this thing out, see how she is if and when I finally have a job and an apartment and everything... She is very important to me, and I get what you're saying about having to move on when it is not mutual, but I don't know that it can't be mutual yet. One thing I don't believe is that love has to be instantly recognized by both people, nor that it never takes some work for two people to get their situations lined up right to be able to be together. I think you can end up wasting a lot of your life waiting for it to happen exactly like a Disney movie, if you don't mind my saying. I mean, take it from me. I have lived half my life already. That is a long time to be alone. I don't think one should give up on someone they love until the other person basically makes it clear that it is never going to happen, ha.

But did you have your lunch, and are their plans for more hanging out? If not, I am awfully sorry. What sucks is that it's like our hearts often don't seem to understand that when someone doesn't love us the same way, we need to move on. We think we'll never have love again. But still, even though you are in love, even true love, the big thing, true true love lol is when two people are both in love with each other. And I'll even go as far as to say it's only when they are equally so, though one can never measure "how much in love" they are when you hit true love. It is the same for both, you must believe it is for it to work.

We did not, as I mentioned, but we did plan to reschedule, for whatever that's worth. I did ask her if she really wanted to meet up with me or not. Like I said, I'm not giving up until she conclusively tells me to, ha, and in a believable way. Truth is, after she got back together with the boyfriend, she told me I should move on. But, keep in mind that not long after, she seemed to be longing to be with me again instead of him. That was how her e-mails read, anyway. Also, we had shared such wonderful dates before all that. It was such a sudden turnaround. At that point, moving on didn't really feel right. She has also told me she is slow to fall in love. It takes her a long time. She has to get perfectly comfortable with someone, which is very difficult for her. Every time I have to go away for a while and come back, that it's like starting from scratch for her... If all she needs is for me to be patient with her, she is worth that, though I don't want to wait forever because I've never had someone to hold, and I don't want that to be my life's story. I don't want it to be anyone but her though, and I know that sounds like just something I'm saying because I love her, but I think about all the things I love about her, and I am not likely to find that combination in someone else. Believe me, I've looked. Maybe I could fall in love with someone else over time, but what we would have together wouldn't be the same (naturally), and what I could have with this girl could be truly as good as it gets. If it's just a matter of my needing to be patient a bit longer, I am going to try my best.

Your description of love at first sight using the word lust is not how I'd say it is. Whatever differences between your description and mine, I'm going to believe mine. I believe you can get that "whatever love at first sight is" without lust.

By lust, I of course just mean the physical side of the attraction. I'll have to disagree with you on this because even the mention of the word "sight" demands this is at least partly if not entirely a visual/physical appeal. Love at first sight basically implies not having had any interaction with the person yet. A purely visual attraction. That has to be primarily physical. There is no way around that. And physical attraction is how I define lust. Some might define it in a more... I don't know, dirtier way. And, the sad truth is, lust is what brings most people together, even those who eventually get married. And, despite what they say, I look at most unhappy marriages, and I can see that they are usually couples that have very little in common and got together based on superficial attractions, primarily a combination of lust and an idea they were raised to have of what the ideal mate should be like (for example, guys who love sports and act tough; a lot of people believe that is the way a guy is supposed to act, and that it is more important that a guy have those qualities rather than share common interests with them). Consider all the complaining women we see on TV over the years, whose husbands are obsessed with sports and hate to do anything with their wives. They still act like they love each other so much, or say they do (until they cheat). This is a very real problem. Some of these couples really do love each other, but they still made a big mistake getting together, because they could have a much more fulfilling love with someone else, and they usually only came to love the person their with because they've been together so long. That always leads to some level of attachment, which COULD be defined as a TYPE of love. One of a handful of reasons unhappy couples stay together (even while being with someone else in secret), that attachment love. But, trying to find a more ideal love is very difficult, largely because most people still are looking for the less fulfilling traits... I may have gone off on a tangent there, sorry. I really don't remember what I was originally talking about here.

You're idea of the best relationship, or the one you want, being one where you are friends even since you were little, does sound nice but that's for you.

I realize that might not appeal to everyone, but also, let me point out that I don't mean I couldn't have just as wonderful a love with someone, just that I think it is nicer for those who get to experience this because they get to spend more time with the one they love. How is that not a better deal? Time together is the most precious thing you can have if you love someone.

I suppose because I felt a little lonely all my life for not having a friend who I felt was enough like me, there's something kind of nice about longing for that one and then finally finding them. It's romantic. Maybe I just love the romance of love at first sight or discovering "the one" so much. Or maybe I like that you have your own life you develop without them and then you find them perfectly fitting into your life and becoming your life. Or maybe I'm just icked out by the idea of having that kind of connection when you're little kids, even though when I was little I had little crushes on the guys my age but couldn't tell what it was! Because, I, like you, don't think age should matter too much, when you're the same age or when you're adults.

Seriously, there are plenty of other sources for romance. I mean, trust me, I know how it is to be lonely all your life, and as I said, I've most likely lived exactly half my life already. That is a sad waste of time I could have spent loving someone. Sure, the wait can be romantic if it is satisfied with still plenty of time to share with that person once you find them. It sucks when you wait and wait and then only get a very brief period with that person (or are too old for it to be all it could have been, ha). But, I don't see how this gets into the age difference issue. I mean, I wouldn't want this because of that issue, just because I would get to spend more time with the person. Obviously, the girl I'm in love with, there's know way we could have met while we were both kids because of our age difference. And, yeah, if I would end up with her (sooner rather than later, preferably), it would definitely have been worth the wait. However, I would hate to have to wait till I'm 60 or something to find love. I would prefer it happen while everything still works, ha. I'd like to experience all facets of being in love to their fullest.

I really wish I knew of places that were just hiring good drawers. But I would think any company at all would have a need for that for some advertisements. Maybe magazines? I always thought any artist could just jump right into the advertising business and I heard so many that did web and media design. Maybe you should ask Disney if you can do some of their ads or books or something while at home. I'd like to do stuff like that!

Unfortunately, Disney doesn't really hand out jobs that way. Yeah, I would be thrilled to have a job like that too, ha.

Sadly, I really don't think good, traditional artists are as greatly needed as you think anymore. Keep in mind that photographs are used much more often these days than art. That along with computer generated stuff, even in the animation world. They say so many of the animators laid off at Disney ended up bagging groceries, as I soon will probably be doing, if I'm lucky enough to get hired. And, I certainly don't have the training of the Disney animators. Yeah, there is a lot of work for those who know the web design stuff, but what I was saying before was that I don't know that stuff. Like I said, even my own website is all drag and drop. And, right now, I really don't have the time to learn (need a job and apartment immediately), nor can I afford any classes anyway). Anyway, there are tons of guys who are job hunting and have degrees specifically in that area. The only real job experience I have for something that could be above minimum wage is in graphic design for a sign shop, though I only got that job with the help of a friend who worked there, and I really was never very good at it. But, trying to get another job like that has proved impossible because of the competition and the emphasis these days on web-design and other skills I don't have. And, like I said, I also have to seek a job in the location I'm in. For various reasons, I really can't relocate again now, and even this was a relocation for me I am still trying to secure.

But I know that you looked and you're probably going to tell me I didn't offer anything new to help you find a job. Sorry. : ( This makes me fearful for what I want to do since I was thinking about majoring in Art myself soon.

My recommendation is to minor in Art, or at least something else. I didn't get a minor at all. Really not sure what a minor is worth, but I don't know what good an art degree is. Maybe a degree in Art education... or whatever you need maybe to teach art at the college level. But, I tried to continue and get MY Masters in Art, but my work was too cartoony/illustrative for the Fine Art Masters Program at the University I went to. It was clear they were about to boot me out, so I left before they did.

Of course, you have to do what you love, and I'm still trying to make it with my art. Funnily enough, the girl I'm in love with just changed her major to art. I wonder if I influenced that at all? That would be weird though, since she could clearly see I wasn't having any success at it, ha. But, she might have more than I did. She does some very cute cartoons!

[Disney Duster]

Well Slave2moonlight, because I'm looking out for you, I'm going to say what I honestly feel it sounds like, even though you may feel differently, and may not like it. It sounds...like its possible...that she is excited for you just because she wants to be friends, and you're a really good friend to her. She said to move on, once, and she said she didn't want to date you anymore when she got back with her boyfriend. She says that she needs to be comfortable with someone to fall in love, so...did she get comfortable very fast with her schizo boyfriend? And how does she still get nervous for you when she is clearly not in full-on love and she spent so many previous times with you and knows you and clicked with you so well? This must be about one of the most timid girls ever who cares more about security than anything or she's not being fully honest with herself or you.

What do you mean when you say you don't believe "love has to be instantly recognized by both people"? You mean you don't think she recognizes the love while you do? If she's falling in love...she should know. I do however agree that two people must work to get their situations lined up right to be able to be together...I actually agree with a lot of things you said about not waiting for love and it not being a Disney movie, but something that's also like a Disney movie is waiting and pining for someone with a lot of hope instead of reading things more realistically which perhaps you are doing. Realistically, people that are good for each other should fall in love about equally and around the same time, don'tcha think? It makes sense. Disney movies do have that point. Even though I am in love with someone who isn't with me, I'm just not as hopeful for it as you sound. I suppose I'm doing the same thing as you now that I think about it, I'll keep trying to get with them...I'm just going to give up sooner I think if not much happens.

So...I guess you have a good plan. To wait until you get a job and apartment and then see. Since you need to get those quick for not just her but also yourself, maybe you won't be waiting too long after all. So, I wish you the very best in that.

And you know, I can't believe you don't have your first kiss yet. I'm just surprised, and a lot of it is because from that tiny picture I saw of you a long time ago you looked cute and handsome. That usually gets a kiss regardless of love, ya know?

As for love at first sight - no, the sight part of love does not automatically only mean it is physical attraction. What it can mean is that by seeing someone, sight is simply the method by which you know they are someone you will be in love with. Say you know and love someone for a very long time. As soon as you see them, you know they are the one you've loved for a long time. You don't know it because you are physically attracted, you know it because you can see it is them. And remember, the way Belle could tell the handsome prince was the Beast was because she saw the look in his eyes that he had when he was kind and bearing the lovely soul she fell in love with. That is love at sight. You could see a person drawing something that you also love to draw and you love their drawing, too, and it's one thing you love about them. That would be love by sight.

And maybe that's not how love at first sight really happens, I'm just explaining the idea, one that I still like to believe can happen, no matter how magically impossible it sounds. But love can be pretty magical...

Your assesment of a lot of unhappy couples does sound like it could be true, though, which is sad. When you've been married to someone for how many years, you wouldn't want to believe you are not in true fulfilling love so it would be nice to think that attachment love really is as good as any other love and its who they were meant to be with. Society's and religions rules on marriage may have people say they were in love to the end, but who knows if inside they realize they could have had true love with someone else.

And on the subject, who can say what fulfilling love always is. If one love can be truer or better than another, we could always wonder if there's a better match for us out there, couldn't we? I guess it's when you really feel like someone is "the one" that you know that's the love you, and everyone, is supposed to have. When you don't want anyone else (and I don't know if I would make this a requirement, but it should be when you keep not wanting anyone else, after a long time, when you've seen other people, but maybe you do sometimes think you want someone else before you realize you only want the one you've always had).

Gotta say, I always worried that Belle and the Beast loved each other partly just because they were together for a long time. I wish...I dunno I wish we saw more of why they were a good match for each other and really loved each other for who they are. I suppose it should be clear with how they enjoy time together...maybe that's enough, just who you can share fun and interests with.

As for your love being with you since you're children, I think I can say it better now. Okay, when you're children, you're not in love. Real romantic love between you would only happen by like high school or perhaps later than that. But I get why even though you wouldn't be in love them, you like the idea of having that time and memories together. But when you find the one...it doesn't matter how much time you spend with them. You WANT to spent all the time in the world you can with them (metaphorically since in reality you will always want and need some time without them, especially alone time), but when you're so in love, every second is so great, you could spend a hundred years together or one day, and it doesn't matter. And don't you like the idea of telling someone about your childhood to get closer?

And who...who...who gets to experience having their loved ones be people they were with when they were kids? That doesn't happen very often and I really do wonder what that is like because, well, it still sounds weird to me lol.

Thanks for the advice on what I should do for a job. Maybe I'll minor in art while I major in something else, but I'd like to go for the highest in art I can. You majored in art? I'm sorry about the fine arts thing not working out. I'm surprised you didn't try to refine your talent into that kind of art, Disney artists even draw like that aside from their cartoony designs. I think you should have tried to do that. You still could. You have shown such skills in your Disney Girls piece I think. You know, maybe I could become an illustrator, or a designer for plays, shows, movies. Why wouldn't you want to do that?

[Super Aurora]

I'm sorry about the fine arts thing not working out. I'm surprised you didn't try to refine your talent into that kind of art,

Fine art is fucking hard to make a living as. I would know since I know people and have a relative who work in the fine art business which is mostly free lancing and free lancing is very difficult business. Art business in general hard even for comic artist and such.

On guy I know someone works for DC comic and yet he still has another job as a professor in SVA. In fact most professors in my school are fine artist or comic artist but also tech to make a living since making a living as free lance alone is difficult.

Only way you can live off fine art freelance alone is if you made a work that so magnificent and well demanded by wealthy collectors that you become an all time celebrity artist and make a good living. Like Andy Warhol or Damien Hirst or jasper John etc.

[slave2moonlight]

Well Slave2moonlight, because I'm looking out for you, I'm going to say what I honestly feel it sounds like, even though you may feel differently, and may not like it. It sounds...like its possible...that she is excited for you just because she wants to be friends, and you're a really good friend to her. She said to move on, once, and she said she didn't want to date you anymore when she got back with her boyfriend. She says that she needs to be comfortable with someone to fall in love, so...did she get comfortable very fast with her schizo boyfriend? And how does she still get nervous for you when she is clearly not in full-on love and she spent so many previous times with you and knows you and clicked with you so well? This must be about one of the most timid girls ever who cares more about security than anything or she's not being fully honest with herself or you.

Well, the thing is, she IS very timid with this kind of thing. I get the impression she expects the guy to be the aggressive one (as most women probably do), and she is a very timid girl in general. I have thought over several possibilities, including that she only wants to be friends. The problem is, she has sent out both types of signals, sometimes on the same dates. Honestly, I get the impression she is just trying to be very, very careful about everything, partly because of bad experiences she has had already, including with the guy she is currently living with. We actually, finally went out again today, and it all went very nicely, but I still got both kinds of signals. It does read very much though like she is just worried about trusting another guy. But, the way I see it, she knows very well how I feel about her, so if she wants to flat out end things, she can. I realize she sent me packing once, but she also changed her tune. She knows, though, that my interest in her is not a "just friends" kind of thing. And, even today, we have talked about sharing an apartment together. She is just very unsure, and even says it's because of her experience living with the guy she is currently living with. She said she was planning to get her own place when the lease was up, and I said, "That's cool, I just didn't know you could afford your own place (as in, paying for a place without a roommate)," and she said she could, but she also then said, "but, maybe we could," because I don't seem like the "angry" type. So, I still get the vibe she is just very, very cautious. She has told me of some bad dating experiences she has had, so I can understand that. She's probably not "in love" with me at the moment, but I believe that she might not really be opened up to love at the moment. If you're not ready to trust anyone at all, I believe that's going to get in the way, and I can understand her not quite being ready to trust me 100 percent yet. We have had some big gaps in seeing each other, and the time in which we had several dates in a row still only went over the course of a month or so. But, yeah, things went well today, er, last night, and I expect to see her again over the weekend. I kinda think she expected me to kiss her goodnight tonight, and again I didn't really catch it till it was too late. I kinda went into tonight thinking I should not try anything since we hadn't seen each other in so long, but... I might have goofed up there, ha. I hope not. Maybe I'll get another chance if we do make it to Beauty and the Beast this weekend. In different ways, and sometimes the same ways, we are both very timid.

What do you mean when you say you don't believe "love has to be instantly recognized by both people"? You mean you don't think she recognizes the love while you do? If she's falling in love...she should know.

Aaaah, doesn't always work that way. You gotta realize that it can work all different ways. But, I don't remember what I was talking about when I said that, and I'm too lazy to go back and read it right now, ha. Maybe I was talking about being open to love. Like, what I just said a minute ago. I am like 100 percent sure that I am more open to falling in love than she is, and I believe that can cause one person to fall faster than another. And, yeah, that other might not fall at all, but they might. No, I DO NOT agree that it has to happen simultaneously. I think some of these ideas (and I don't mean this to offend at all) are a little more on the idealistic side than reflecting real-life. I love the Disney movies too, but they are unquestionably idealistic (and at the same time, not; for example, nobody cares what happens to someone like LaFou; he never gets to fall in love, and if he does, it would probably have to be a girl who looks just like him as a rule; and the end of Enchanted didn't make me feel much better, because that was unrealistic too). Then again, even in the Disney movies, there are examples of one character falling in love before the other one does, or before the other realizes it (like with Ariel and Eric; actually, their whole situation was really confusing; Aladdin and Jasmine might be a better example; He was smitten over her first, if I recall).

I do however agree that two people must work to get their situations lined up right to be able to be together...I actually agree with a lot of things you said about not waiting for love and it not being a Disney movie, but something that's also like a Disney movie is waiting and pining for someone with a lot of hope instead of reading things more realistically which perhaps you are doing. Realistically, people that are good for each other should fall in love about equally and around the same time, don'tcha think? It makes sense. Disney movies do have that point. Even though I am in love with someone who isn't with me, I'm just not as hopeful for it as you sound. I suppose I'm doing the same thing as you now that I think about it, I'll keep trying to get with them...I'm just going to give up sooner I think if not much happens.

Well, I don't think what I'm doing is the same as waiting and pining because I am actually going out on dates with her and trying to see where it will lead. I think waiting around pining for someone not interested in you would only count if you weren't getting any dates with the person anymore, or if things weren't progressing. If things don't progress or she stops showing any interest, I certainly will eventually TRY to move on. She hasn't gotten to the point of not showing any interest anymore though, and the thing about back when she told me she was back with her boyfriend and I should move on, well, I still don't know why that happened out of nowhere, but I have to tell you that just before that, she was acting very much like she was falling as much in love with me as I fell with her, and that's probably what keeps me after her so strongly as long as she is still willing to go out. I don't know what happened with the sudden turn around, maybe I announced my love too fast, and because I'm older, she thought I might try to propose next or something. I honestly think that's a possibility. There are plenty of things to be skiddish about. I kinda got a vibe that she found it weird that I had never tried another physical with her too. But, anyway, I can't properly describe how, but for a while there, she was nearly as smitten with me as I was with her, and I could just see it in the way she acted and even moved. And even that fact could have scared her a little. So, right now, I'm just trying to see if I can respark that attitude in her. But, this current emergency need I have right now for an apartment and job is complicating things now too. I may have to be on the other side of town for a while starting next week, which sucks, because it is a LOOONG way away...

As for the whole thing about it being realistic in Disney films that people who were good for each other would fall in love with each other at the same time, I sorta talked about that before, but I really believe that most of the time one person falls in love before the other. I don't agree that it is necessary for it to happen at the same time because I believe it has to do with how open you are to falling in love and also how much you share about yourself with the other person and they with you, which doesn't always turn up in equal amounts. It's like, while I don't believe in love at first sight in the most literal, Disney sense, I do believe you can fall in love with someone from afar and without them knowing you, IF you know enough about them. Actually, have you ever seen the movie, "The Shop Around the Corner"? If not, you really should. I highly recommend you see that one. It's a good example of how one person can know that they love someone before the other person knows it. It's not a perfect example of MY situation, but it is a great example of how you can see someone every day and they can be the right person for you, but you don't see it because you don't know enough about them. Of course, some people could read it the wrong way and think it means that people who don't get along are a good match. I don't agree with that and don't think that is what the film is getting at...

So...I guess you have a good plan. To wait until you get a job and apartment and then see. Since you need to get those quick for not just her but also yourself, maybe you won't be waiting too long after all. So, I wish you the very best in that.

Thanks, I just hope I CAN land those things quickly. I really needed more time than I've got.

And you know, I can't believe you don't have your first kiss yet. I'm just surprised, and a lot of it is because from that tiny picture I saw of you a long time ago you looked cute and handsome. That usually gets a kiss regardless of love, ya know?

I appreciate that. I guess the stiff competition during my lifetime in regards to male physical fitness and the fact that I am not aggressive in sexual matters (despite a very active libido) may be part of the problem. Though I also am far from trim these days, ha, but as we've discussed in this thread, no, maybe it was the New Year's Resolution thread, I have had weight issues since I was put on steroid asthma medication as a child. For some people, those cause you to put on weight, which causes the teasing from other kids and harassment from adults, which causes a mental complex that screws everything up and usually causes more weight gain. And, the fact seems to be that most people aren't interested in kissing someone who is overweight, especially these days when everyone has a six pack. I can't say I blame them or anything. Morbid obesity isn't exactly a turn-on for me either, ha.

As for love at first sight - no, the sight part of love does not automatically only mean it is physical attraction. What it can mean is that by seeing someone, sight is simply the method by which you know they are someone you will be in love with. Say you know and love someone for a very long time. As soon as you see them, you know they are the one you've loved for a long time. You don't know it because you are physically attracted, you know it because you can see it is them. And remember, the way Belle could tell the handsome prince was the Beast was because she saw the look in his eyes that he had when he was kind and bearing the lovely soul she fell in love with. That is love at sight. You could see a person drawing something that you also love to draw and you love their drawing, too, and it's one thing you love about them. That would be love by sight.

Hang on. Huh? Okay, at the first part of this, I could simply shake my head, because I don't agree that sight is showing you more than what is visible, and so if you like what you see, well, that's what you're liking. But then you said, "Say you know and love someone for a very long time." If that's the starting point, how are we talking about love at first sight? If you mean like two people who have been writing letters to each other and fell in love that way, that's not the same as love at first sight... That's a cheating sorta love at first sight, ha. When I talk about it, I mean two people who have never met before and know nothing about each other. I think that's what most of us mean when we discuss love at first sight. Not when you somehow already know a lot about the other person but just haven't seen them yet, and that seals the deal. Maybe I'm misunderstanding? With Beauty and the Beast, that's not what happened, by the way. She looked in his eyes and recognized his eyes as the Beast's, that's all. There was no love at first sight in that movie.

And maybe that's not how love at first sight really happens, I'm just explaining the idea, one that I still like to believe can happen, no matter how magically impossible it sounds. But love can be pretty magical...

Well, ha, I had a bitter college professor once who could really explain to you all the chemical reactions and how that's all the feeling and emotion of love is, but I'll agree to ignore that guy too, even if I don't believe in love at first sight, ha.

Your assesment of a lot of unhappy couples does sound like it could be true, though, which is sad. When you've been married to someone for how many years, you wouldn't want to believe you are not in true fulfilling love so it would be nice to think that attachment love really is as good as any other love and its who they were meant to be with. Society's and religions rules on marriage may have people say they were in love to the end, but who knows if inside they realize they could have had true love with someone else. And on the subject, who can say what fulfilling love always is. If one love can be truer or better than another, we could always wonder if there's a better match for us out there, couldn't we? I guess it's when you really feel like someone is "the one" that you know that's the love you, and everyone, is supposed to have. When you don't want anyone else (and I don't know if I would make this a requirement, but it should be when you keep not wanting anyone else, after a long time, when you've seen other people, but maybe you do sometimes think you want someone else before you realize you only want the one you've always had).

I do agree that the feeling you should be looking for is that feeling of not wanting anyone else. This is something I feel about the girl I've been dating. However, I don't believe a person has to feel that right away, nor that two people have to discover this feeling at the same time. After she told me to move on, her later e-mails seemed to imply that she wasn't happy without me, and that could be the start of something. It might just stay that way. She might decide she wants me around, but just as a friend, but it could grow into more than that.

As for your love being with you since you're children, I think I can say it better now. Okay, when you're children, you're not in love. Real romantic love between you would only happen by like high school or perhaps later than that. But I get why even though you wouldn't be in love them, you like the idea of having that time and memories together. But when you find the one...it doesn't matter how much time you spend with them. You WANT to spent all the time in the world you can with them (metaphorically since in reality you will always want and need some time without them, especially alone time), but when you're so in love, every second is so great, you could spend a hundred years together or one day, and it doesn't matter. And don't you like the idea of telling someone about your childhood to get closer?

Telling someone about your childhood is nice, but I think getting more time to spend with them would be better. I think discovering things over time would be better. I think there's something very romantic about sharing your first kiss, and other stuff like that. Yes, I've know people who did that, people who married their childhood sweethearts, and I think that if you are a good match (not all were), then that is about as good as it gets. I don't wish it for me because I never had a childhood sweetheart. The girl I'm in love with, she wouldn't have been born when I was a kid, and I don't want anyone but her. But, I don't agree that "a hundred years together or one day" are just as good. A hundred years with someone you love is definitely better than one day. Let's not get toooo romantic with our ideas so that we end up b.s.ing ourselves, ha.

And who...who...who gets to experience having their loved ones be people they were with when they were kids? That doesn't happen very often and I really do wonder what that is like because, well, it still sounds weird to me lol.

Well, like I said, I've seen it happen. I think just as far back as adolescence is nice enough, to share all those special kinda things with each other and no one else. That would really be special. And, yeah, I've seen junior high couples who never lost their feelings for each other and got married. Really good matches though. One particular pair comes to mind, because I was quite jealous of that guy, ha.

Thanks for the advice on what I should do for a job. Maybe I'll minor in art while I major in something else, but I'd like to go for the highest in art I can. You majored in art? I'm sorry about the fine arts thing not working out. I'm surprised you didn't try to refine your talent into that kind of art, Disney artists even draw like that aside from their cartoony designs. I think you should have tried to do that. You still could. You have shown such skills in your Disney Girls piece I think. You know, maybe I could become an illustrator, or a designer for plays, shows, movies. Why wouldn't you want to do that?

[url]

I never really understood the importance of a minor. As in, what you can do with it? (I don't mean it's worthless, just that I literally don't know what they are for) I don't remember exactly what I said, but as I was having a similar conversation with the girl I've been seeing over dinner yesterday, I hope what I told you was the best thing you can get for art in college is the opportunity to hone your skills (the absolutely most helpful part is the use of live models, which she might not get, nude anyway, since it's a catholic university she attends). I don't know if the paper would mean much unless you get the ones to teach it too, which I really should have, but I dabbled in the Masters program, and it was unbearable for me. Yes, I am capable of doing Fine Art, there is a small bit of it in my DeviantArt gallery, but I just don't enjoy it much, and the school I attended expected every such piece you did to have some deeper meaning to it. You had to stand beside it and explain it, and that's what I hated. And I didn't like doing the stuff half the time, either, especially since what they REALLY wanted was abstract stuff, which is something I never could fake convincingly, even if I think most of the real abstract stuff is b.s. also.

Super Aurora is right though. Fine Art is very difficult to make a living on unless you teach. As for me, I never had much interest in fine art as a career though. I was always more illustrative with my work. And even a lot of the work the Disney artists do that you are referring to as fine art is more on the illustrative side and not completely unlike some of the work I have done (but don't show much or do much these days). Illustration was always a better bet for making a career in the past, and frankly, I do consider myself an illustrator, but that, and any area of art (or anything in the arts, really) is really hard to make a living out of or even break into at all. For years, I made nothing on my art. Then, I started pulling in a few hundred a year. Last year, I made like 3 thousand on my illustrating. That's basically all I made last year (I'm wondering how much I'm going to have to pay in taxes for it, and how to do my taxes at all as a freelancer, since I've never had to before). Some people define being a professional as making money off your work, some people say you have to be able to make a living off of it. I figure, factoring in my degree, the state of the economy, and that it's my only income at the moment, I can call myself a professional illustrator, but not a very successful one, ha, and I certainly couldn't live on it independently, which is why I'm desperately looking for any kind of day job right now and wishing I was certified to teach (sort of, I don't really want to teach though). But, at least I have had my work published in actual comics lately (independents, but whatever). It's funny, but my work ended up going the comic book route, even though I think I'm better at the kind of art you would see on covers, and would probably enjoy that more, ha. I used to always want to be a Disney animator. While I still would love to do some work for Disney someday, I don't think I would want to animate for them. I do wish I had animation training, but it wasn't offered where I went to school, and at the time, Disney wanted Fine Art majors (probably the more illustrative kind, too, like myself), but they were firing instead of hiring when I graduated, and now they don't train Fine Artists anymore, they take trained animators fresh outta school, if and when they're hiring anyone, and work 'em like dogs, so I hear, ha. But most of the work IS in computer animation these days. But, really, I don't think I would like doing all those drawings over and over, with only slight changes. But, maybe I'm wrong. What would make ME really happy is if I could ever be my own boss, working from home doing my comic strip and freelancing. But, yeah, that's hard to make a living doing. Some people support themselves purely by putting designs on sites like zazzle though, and tapping into a niche subject that is popular. I wanna keep trying to do that too. Right now I get like 25 or 50 bucks a year from Cafepress and Zazzle, but, admittedly, I don't have a lot of really great stuff posted there yet. I need to do less fan art and more original stuff, ha.

Oh, ha, but what was I talking about? Ah, yeah, so, even illustration, it is hard to get to a point where you make a living on it. Breaking into, say, book illustration, or any other kind, really, it's a big question of HOW it is done. I have never been able to get a good answer from anyone. Most people will tell you it's all in who you know, others simple will say it's very hard. Working on commissions, try to get tips on an artist about where to get them or how? Most will not give any advice, because it's a very competitive thing. It's easy to say, "I'm going to be an illustrator," or whatever else in school (not trying to discourage you here), but when you get out, it can be hard to know how to do it, and probably hard even when you do know. There are so many good artists out there. Just so many, in a world that usually uses photographs these days... I mean, compared to 100 years ago. As for being a designer for plays or shows, as much as I love the theater, I think that's a different kind of art. With movies, well, I love movies and there are probably many jobs for artists, but you have to be in the right place. Most other places, you just have independent film, and independent film usually wants you do work for free, ha. I dabbled in it. I've done some storyboarding just for my credit in something really crappy, or things that end up not getting made at all. I did a ton of work for a werewolf film (storyboarding, ads, creature design) that just ended up getting canceled. Pay was promised from the profits, so that was a real waste of my energy, EXCEPT that at the time, I hadn't drawn for years, so it did get me out of my slump of not drawing since college. That and the introduction someone online gave me to DeviantArt.com. If you don't have a DeviantArt gallery, start one. It keeps your artistic energies up to have an audience that likes your work, ha.

[Elladorine]

Thanks again to all for the kind words. Since I woke up and can't get back to sleep, I thought I'd come in here to make a little update . . .

I was apparently in much more pain than most, which is why they kept me at the hospital for so long (the overseeing doctor initially wanted to send me home the same day, but one of the nurses pulled him aside to tell him how much narcotics it took to keep me in check). Nearly each day I was told I couldn't eat or drink anything in case I'd have to have the D&C. That left me pretty hungry, as I ended up having only one proper meal for the entire stay. That was really the least of my worries though.

But really, I'm fine. The physical toll was much more difficult than I'd ever imagined, but luckily we easily forget that kind of pain. Emotionally, I'm still not quite sure where I'm at. It changes a lot, but I guess that's to be expected. All sorts of relatives and old friends came to me with their own stories, and miscarriages seem to be a lot more common than I'd realized; it's just one of those things people don't talk about.

I stayed in Cali with my grandma and aunt for several days, which was pretty good for me. I don't get to see them nearly enough and it was a very relaxing time, especially since they had no internet to distract me (I didn't always have a decent phone signal there). I was still pretty weak the day they decided to take me shopping for some new clothes, and I had trouble keeping up with my walker-bound 90-year-old grandma. Rey went back home to work after I'd been discharged from the hospital, at my insistence. I knew I was in good hands with my family, and that it was best for him to return to work to get his mind off things. He and his mother drove back the following weekend to pick me up, and we made several stops in LA to visit with some of his family before returning home. I drove most of the way as they passed out from exhaustion, listening to a CD I'd burned for the trip. Somehow good music and a long drive always seem to settle me.

I do believe I returned home with clarity and hope. As of yesterday my body seems to be back to normal (except for my sore hips ) and I'm hoping I can build my energy back up to normal levels soon. And since I didn't have to have the D&C the doctors told me we can try for another baby as soon as we like.

This was the very last thing I'd ever want to go through, but life goes on and I'm doing alright. Somehow making a few drawings has helped me sort my feelings out, and of course the people I have in my life have been the most important aspect of the healing process. I'm still hurting but I'm taking everything one day at a time.

[Rose Dome]

It's great to know thst you're doing well ew.

Keep it up

[PixarFan2006]

As if having another seizure on Thursday night (and having to skip a day of work to rest it off) was not enough to torture me, I just found out today at a brief meeting that I (and a few other employees) am going to be laid off from my job (AGAIN) effective next week. This news is extremely frustrating. I hate job searching as a lot of jobs nowadays either require massive degrees or are something I could never be able to do.

[pap64]

I found this thread, since I didn't want to make it all about me on the old UD members thread I might as well vent here.

As you guys probably read on the other thread, I had a rough to awful last half of 2011. The first half was beyond awesome as I got a great summer job, I went to the movies a lot, I saw my first Disney on Ice show and I graduated and got my Master's Degree. It was fantastic and I was very happy. But then the last half came by and I nearly fell into a deep depression because of it.

Some of you that know me know that I've been struggling to find a job due to the poor economic state of the world as a whole. This had be on raw nerve because I wanted to feed my family, I wanted to afford my own stuff and be independent, yet it all felt like I was being held back in the worst manner possible. For a while, I almost fell into the trap I fell in back in 2006, which was letting me become envious of everyone else's good fortune. It didn't help that in 2010 I attended my class reunion and there was that one jerk that feels that he made all the right decisions in life and made me feel like I was wasting my time. Again, it just struck me right down to the core with that. But even with those comments I still persevered through and believed I could make something of myself regardless of what I am going through.

Then for a while, I was depressed because I felt like I was being taken for granted by my friends and family. Don't get me wrong, I love helping my friends and family out and value their presence in my life greatly, but there comes a time where you feel like you exist only to fulfill a need, and when you fail do to it, everyone remembers you. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that I deserve a lot of attention, and that people need to be kissing my ass every few seconds. But every once in a while, a "Thank you", "How are you today?", "I love you" or "I appreciate all you do for me" does help in getting me out of a rut.

Like I mentioned in the other thread, I got severely burned out by all the freelance work I did for cheap just to try and feed myself. At that point, I was so tired, so worn out and so uninspired that I went through a period where it was all about me. What I did, what I wanted, what I was going to do, a lot of things me. During this time, though, I promised my best friend I would read his book and offer feedback on it. This was in October or so. Because I was so swamped doing work for two sites on a daily/weekly basis, then doing freelance work, whenever I tried to read the book, I would just collapse and never even bothered.

Then one day, his fiance talked to me over Facebook and asked me if I was ever going to read the book and over the feedback he wanted. I told her that I was going to do it, but that several things got in the way. She told me to not offer excuses and to say yes or no on the book thing because my best friend knew that I was on Facebook talking about movies and such and felt like I didn't care for his book, so he was bitter and angry about it.

It just hurt. I love my best friend, and I would do anything for him, but it does feel bad that rather than coming to me, confronting the situation and letting me tell my side of the story, he jumped into a conclusion and I was almost forced by his fiance to do this favor for him. Eventually I did tell him what was going on, never mentioning that we had the talk his fiance and I, so I guess he eventually got what was going on. But part of me wants closure on this, to let him know that I did talk to her and what she said about you and what you thought of me hurt me.

Sigh... I get that he too has been depressed and bitter, and he told me that I was the only true friend he ever had. But, I still feel hurt about it.

See what I mean about being taken for granted? I love all of these people, I deeply, deeply appreciate their presence in my life, I do anything to make them happy, but make a couple of mistakes and I feel like the worst human being ever. I mean, I feel as if a friend of theirs commits murder and they are all like "OK, I forgive you buddy! ", where as I make something small and they are all "OMG YOU ARE THE WORST FRIEND EVER I HATE YOU!!!!!!!"

So yeah, that's basically what happened in my time away from UD. I needed to vent and set some things straight. I am not bitter about this, I still love my friends as me being bitter would make things worse, but it does still hurt that this happened, and all were over tiny things that should be forgotten.

[pap64]

But, I will say this. Despite everything that has happened I still hang onto the belief that things will get better, and that all of it isn't really as bad as it seems. I still forgive my friends for what happened, and move on never referencing this again. I understand that all of this happened because of their own fears and insecurities as well as their own frustrations in their own lives. My best friend especially has been coming in and out of a depression caused by his failed first business venture. The short of it is that he now hates the company he once believed in, and lost contact with two friends he was friends with since high school. I can see how that can drive a man to think the worst of things in any situation.

I think what he needs is a fresh, new beginning. He is going to (hopefully) marry soon. He should take the opportunity to leave behind his old life, start anew. Forget about the people that hurt him and relish those that supported him, find new ventures and many other great things.

That's something all of us should focus more on. At least that's something I promised myself I would do more.