Big Hero 6

[DisneyAnimation88]

I'm not arguing with you it's just all you seem to do is moan how stuff is "unDisney" and "Walt wouldn't of wanted this" which gets extremely annoying, it wouldn't be so annoying if you actually had some facts to back up your information Smile

Don't rise to it. I agree with everything that you, PatrickVD and Super Aurora have said but this happens in every thread about every new WDAS film and it's getting very, very tiring. I've been guilty of partaking in too many of these debates but ultimately they go nowhere. All he is doing is repeating exactly what he said in the Wreck-It Ralph thread and before that the Tangled thread and no doubt we can look forward to more of the same soon in the Frozen thread. We're all entitled to our own opinions and Disney Duster is more than entitled to voice what he thinks but whenever someone responds the same debate happens so the easiest way to avoid lectures about "essence" or "Walt wouldn't do this..." is to let him have his say but don't respond because he is simply repeating everything he has said in the past and his feelings on today's WDAS are pretty clear. I don't know about anyone else but I'd much rather talk and debate about Big Hero 6 itself than yet another "Disney essence" debate.

[DisneyDude2010]

Thank you DisneyAnimation88 I agree 100% Let's keep discussion to Big Hero 6 on this THREAD.

[Super Aurora]

Is that a Disney movie to suggest the moral that evil really wins?

According to the ride, pretty much. lol

Was it made when Walt was alive?

Not WDW's but the 1955 version, yes it is. Has same ending as 1971 ver.

[Flanger-Hanger]

Don't forget Mr. Toad killed you too, and still does.

[PatrickvD]

What the hell are you talking about?

I could say the same for you when you said the thing which had me give that answer:

Disney Animation Studios can make whatever they hell they want to make.

Which means according to you they could make what you quoted me saying they could make.

You know damn well what I meant. Disney animation makes family friendly entertainment for a 2012 audience and every soul on this planet knows that, why would I ever imply R-rated material? That's just twisting words for your own unfounded opinions.

I've always considered UD the best place for discussing upcoming Disney animated projects, seeing as I've been here for nine years. But you're slowly ruining that that for me, infecting every thread on an upcoming project with your same rant over and over and over and over again.

It's long past the point of merely expressing your opinion, because I'm pretty sure we all know how you feel by now. Heck I'm sure anyone can predict your response to every bit of news at this point. But it sure is becoming harder and harder to read interesting discussions when every discussion is forced into that endlessly annoying Disney essence debate.

[Mooky]

They might as well develop their own superhero team and accomplish the same by marketing it as 'from the studio that brought you The Incredibles' (not technically true, but since when was Disney above lying to sell a movie?) without bringing Marvel into the whole mess.

I suppose that with Disney now owning something like 4000 Marvel characters, it makes sense to them to perhaps take advantage of those characters that are obscure like Big Hero 6.

I totally get that and from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense, but why not let Marvel handle their own characters? What's the purpose of Marvel finally having their own film studio (and animation division) if their characters are still going to be licensed out (it's an in-house licensing out, but it's still licensing out), even if it is just the obscure ones. To me, it's kind of like having Disney make sequels to Pixar films or Pixar making a Grey's Anatomy feature film - they'd still belong under the same 'umbrella', but it just wouldn't feel right. It also raises further questions: will BH6 be a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and if not, why not; will future live-action Marvel films open with a Disney logo; will MCU be comprised of both live-action and animated films; what happens with Marvel's animated TV shows, will some of them be produced by Walt Disney Television Animation from now on; what about Marvel anime; what about other Marvel comic book properties, will they get the same treatment; will this open the door for something like future Aladdin-like film being part of the MCU? It also works both ways, I doubt that even casual Marvel fans will jump for joy at the prospect of some of these. Maybe I'm being paranoid or over-thinking this, but it's the whole mixing/merging of two very different canons that I just can't get behind.

Then again, I guess I already answered my questions with my first sentence. It all boils down to the mighty $$$.

So in short, my feelings about this project: big, ecstatic "yes" to a Disney superhero film; soft, gentle "no" to a Disney/Marvel superhero film.

Sotiris posted a video in the Brave thread I believe where John Lasseter is asked about a possible Marvel/Disney or Marvel/Pixar film and the impression I got was that Lasseter won't be strongarmed into doing anything with Marvel but would consider it if someone could convince him that a particular Marvel property could be made to fit with the Disney style of storytelling.

I saw the video and I what I took from Lasseter's response was a polite rejection of the idea. I've seen enough of Lasster on camera to know that if it was something he liked he'd be much more upbeat and enthusiastic about it. IMHO, his reaction was kind of 'meh' to the whole concept.

Also, here's another article, though it doesn't really say anything we don't already know:

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Walt-Dis ... 31695.html

[Sotiris]

What's the purpose of Marvel finally having their own film studio (and animation division) if their characters are still going to be licensed out (it's an in-house licensing out, but it's still licensing out).

Apparently, they don't mind licensing their characters. Just now, they gave the theatrical rights of "The Human Fly" to an independent studio. Personally, I don't think they should keep doing that. Even with less known or obscure characters.

It also raises further questions: will BH6 be a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and if not, why not?

It won't because the Marvel Cinematic Universe applies only to the live-action films produced by Marvel Studios.

Will future live-action Marvel films open with a Disney logo?

Yes, from the upcoming Marvel films only Iron Man 3 will have the Paramount logo.

Will MCU be comprised of both live-action and animated films?

No. Just live-action films produced by Marvel Studios.

What happens with Marvel's animated TV shows? Will they be produced by Walt Disney Television Animation from now on?

No, all animated TV content is and will continue being produced by Marvel Animation. Only Ultimate Spider-Man is being produced by Film Roman.

[Super Aurora]

I recall when they first announced Disney buying Marvel, they reassured to Marvel fans that Disney would not meddle into Marvel's field and let Marvel handle their own characters and how they are presented.

The movie in someway seems to negate that promise.

[DisneyAnimation88]

I totally get that and from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense, but why not let Marvel handle their own characters?

Good question.

what about other Marvel comic book properties, will they get the same treatment

I think that depends on how Big Hero 6 turns out. Ultimately, I don't have too much of a problem with Disney using obscure Marvel characters like these simply because the story and characters can be changed and moulded to fit with the Disney style and themes without upsetting a rabid Marvel fanbase. I don't think we're suddenly going to get a slew of Disney films adapted from Marvel properties; Wreck-It Ralph and Frozen are on the slate, King of the Elves might get moved back into development, Musker & Clements and Howard & Greno are working on films while there are undoubtedly others at WDAS working on their own projects.

Maybe I'm being paranoid or over-thinking this, but it's the whole mixing/merging of two very different canons that I just can't get behind.

You're not being paranoid at all, all of your points are reasonable and I think we all share your concerns to some extent. The way I look at it is, as I've said before, is that if the character is obscure enough then it can be made to fit into the Disney canon. When rumours of this film first began I immediately thought of an Iron Man or Hulk or Thor film under the WDAS banner and the thought really did make me angry. But over time, I've kind of come to the conclusion that (sorry for repeating myself) if a Marvel property is obscure enough that it can be made to fit within the WDAS canon then I would be willing to give it a chance.

I saw the video and I what I took from Lasseter's response was a polite rejection of the idea. I've seen enough of Lasster on camera to know that if it was something he liked he'd be much more upbeat and enthusiastic about it. IMHO, his reaction was kind of 'meh' to the whole concept.

I got the impression he was less than enthusiastic but at the same time I don't think that he would be forced into greenlighting a film like this. There has to be something within Don Hall's pitch that satisfied Lasseter that Big Hero 6 could fit with WDAS's style of storytelling otherwise I really believe he wouldn't have allowed it to move into further production.

Also, thanks to Sotiris for providing all of the information regarding the structure of Marvel's film production, it really can be confusing to understand at times.

I recall when they first announced Disney buying Marvel, they reassured to Marvel fans that Disney would not meddle into Marvel's field and let Marvel handle their own characters and how they are presented.

Out of interest, as a Marvel fan do you mind Disney doing something with an obscure property like Big Hero 6? How much did you know about Big Hero 6 before the announcement of this film? I'm not really a fan of Marvel or comics in general so I'm curious to know what Marvel fans think.

[Super Aurora]

I recall when they first announced Disney buying Marvel, they reassured to Marvel fans that Disney would not meddle into Marvel's field and let Marvel handle their own characters and how they are presented.

Out of interest, as a Marvel fan do you mind Disney doing something with an obscure property like Big Hero 6? How much did you know about Big Hero 6 before the announcement of this film? I'm not really a fan of Marvel or comics in general so I'm curious to know what Marvel fans think.

I knew about it thanks to Silver Samurai who is a member of it. Silver Samurai pretty badass and cool. As to what I think. The big six is unique in that it' consist of Japanese only characters. And started in 1998 when the birth of Anime/manga boom was about to start in America. I would have to guess it was Marvel early attempt to popularize in the japan fad.

Being a big Anime fan I would thought I'd enjoy it, but I'm not so much into it actually. Only Silver Samurai, who is originally an X-Men character, it the one I catch interest in. But when you look at the cast and their powers and traits, they consist up of many japanese pop culture stereotypes/archtypes that you find in their anime, tv series or manga.

I am bit surprise Disney decided to tackle a series mostly consist of Japanese people. Considering Hollywood and American movie entertainment barely every give Asian good or fair spotlight. And if they are main characters in the movie or the focus, they get reduced to mere stereotypes that Americans only familiar or associate them with or as.

I think most Marvel fans don't give much a shit about this group besides Silver Samurai.

The Big Six is Japan version of Alpha Flight basically.

[jazzflower92]

Miyazaki might be a good consultent when it comes to manners of Japanese media.I mean Miyazaki is a close friend of John Lassestor so it would be in good interest if they went to Miyazaki for that kinda of advice.Besides an anime/manga fan sees this could be potentially a love letter to Japanese pop culture and superheroes.I mean I could just see references to Dragon Ball Z,Sailor Moon,Cutey Honey,Lupin III,Speed Racer,Astro Boy,and even One Piece and Naruto.

They have better make some references to shows like Super Sentai,Kamen Rider,and the much not as well known magical girl metaseries Pretty Cure.

Don't know what Pretty Cure is then I will give you a link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretty_Cure

[Disney Duster]

What Mooky and I think Sotiris and Super Aurora are syaing about Disney not mixing with and doing the work of another company, even a company they own, is another form of what I'm saying, so why are people like Patrickvd and DisneyAnimation and DisneyDude and even some of Super Aurora saying I'm talking crazy and not agreeing with me? Don't you see our sameness here? What everyone just hates me and thinks I'm wrong and won't try to listen and understand me for no good reason?

PatrickvD, so you do see, Disney isn't just anything, they do have rules and elements to themselves, and one of them is that Walt didn't take stuff that was already fully formed by other companies, he made stuff from stories that weren't "owned" or already fully imagined by anyone.

moulded to fit with the Disney style and themes

So you do somewhat believe in a Disney essence! Even you can't deny it.

Is that a Disney movie to suggest the moral that evil really wins?

According to the ride, pretty much. lol

No, the ride isn't teaching a moral like a movie would!

Was it made when Walt was alive?

Not WDW's but the 1955 version, yes it is. Has same ending as 1971 ver.

I'm pretty sure the witch died in the original when Walt was alive, and you lived, so good defeated evil.

Don't forget Mr. Toad killed you too, and still does.

Like I said a ride doesn't count, but didn't that ride kill you for being bad, guilty, road rules-breaking Mr. Toad? What from the movie or book inspired Hell anyway?

[DisneyDude2010]

PatrickvD i agree with everything you've said!

Duster you obviously haven't read my response on Page 4 and have jumped to your own conclusions as usual/

Yes I am skeptical too of the idea of this studio crossover, but at the end of the day It wouldn't be in early development if Disney didn't have faith in it. And yes the characters aren't well known which allows WDAS to put their stamp on it! And now I look forward to any possible film adaption and I wish the WDAS all the luck in the world.

[DisneyAnimation88]

And if they are main characters in the movie or the focus, they get reduced to mere stereotypes that Americans only familiar or associate them with or as.

Part of me does wonder whether Disney might move the setting of the film from Japan. I agree with what you're saying about stereotypes so hopefully Disney can avoid that themselves.

So you do somewhat believe in a Disney essence! Even you can't deny it.

Look at my post at the top of this page; if you want to talk about Big Hero 6 then I'll be happy to respond but I am not getting involved in the exact same debate that you have instigated in several other threads. You've made your feelings about the film clear, I have no problem with that, but I am not being drawn into yet another "essence" argument or allowing myself to be told "Walt wouldn't do this and that...". PatrickvD summed up perfectly my feelings on this in his own response to you so I would just agree with everything that he said in that particular post.

[Super Aurora]

According to the ride, pretty much. lol

No, the ride isn't teaching a moral like a movie would!

Not in sense of a movie, yes, but it pretty much tells you: You're Snow White! YAY you get killed at end of ride! YAY!

It makes you wonder how kids would grasp such a ride, especially a ride located in fantasyland.

Not WDW's but the 1955 version, yes it is. Has same ending as 1971 ver.

I'm pretty sure the witch died in the original when Walt was alive, and you lived, so good defeated evil.

No, the 1955 one the diamond boulder also falls on top of you like the '71 ver. Go ask Tim.

[PatrickvD]

PatrickvD, so you do see, Disney isn't just anything, they do have rules and elements to themselves, and one of them is that Walt didn't take stuff that was already fully formed by other companies, he made stuff from stories that weren't "owned" or already fully imagined by anyone.

That's what you choose to believe or interpret. Those rules clearly do not apply because.... well... I hate to break it to you but....



















Walt is dead!


And as always you ignore what I'm trying to tell you. The way you hijack these threads and turn them into a debate about what YOU think the movie in question should be like is starting to piss me off. All the interesting discussions instantly die when you enter. And I realize we're all part of it by responding to you, but I just wanna let you know how annoying you're becoming.

It's not cute anymore.

[Neal]

What the eff is the difference between adapting a novel (which Walt did multiple times) or adapting a comic book? Both already have a developed universe, characters, themes... the only difference is the literary medium.

... there is no difference.

[Disney Duster]

Patrickvd, I exaggerated with the R stuff only to prove a point. If they just made any family entertainment that was top quality, they would be Pixar, the would be Steven Spielberg, all people associated with Disney, but there's something different that makes them Disney and and not those other things. If you don't want to believe that and believe Disney is just interchangeable with those other things, fine, be a fan of "amy good family entertainment" instead of something specifically Disney with rules.

Oh DisneyDude I did forget to respond to you. Why do you think Disney animation having an "essence", which could also just be called a type, a commonality, a style, is so ridiculous? Disney movies had many differences, yes, but also many things in common no one can deny.

Also, why is my Cinderella avatar "not saying much" and "contradictory"? You mean you think its childish like Winnie the Pooh? How is a cuddly stuffed bear with very little brain that has been marketed to babies and pre-school kids for a while but Cinderella has been marketed much more to everyone and has shows and is based on a fairy tale that gets adult remakes and ballets is the same as Winnie the Pooh?

And as for facts that back up my information, it IS A FACT that Walt never made something that another company had already made up!

Not in sense of a movie, yes, but it pretty much tells you: You're Snow White! YAY you get killed at end of ride! YAY!

Yea well I think you get what I mean on the difference.

I'm pretty sure the witch died in the original when Walt was alive, and you lived, so good defeated evil.

No, the 1955 one the diamond boulder also falls on top of you like the '71 ver. Go ask Tim.

I actually know a lot about the rides partly through having talked to Tim before and my own looking. In the original 1955 one, the witch was pushing a boulder on you...but she fell and died because as you left the scene you heard the same scream she makes when she fell and died in the movie, so you survived, so good won.

What the eff is the difference between adapting a novel (which Walt did multiple times) or adapting a comic book? Both already have a developed universe, characters, themes... the only difference is the literary medium.

... there is no difference.

The difference is a comic book is more fully realized and imagined. Everything is fully designed, scenes are all staged, a comic book is pretty much like looking at a movie on paper. More than that, though, is that this comic book is owned by another company. It's that company's, not something owned by one person that becomes the Disney company's. Marvel still exists as it's own seperate company that Disney shouldn't make a movie for them, they should make their own movies for themselves, make Disney movies, not Marvel movies so that Disney kind of becomes Marvel in a way!

[qindarka]

Well, let's keep in mind that the movie hasn't been confirmed yet and could easily be scrapped so we could all be arguing over nothing here.

[DisneyDude2010]

There's no reasoning with you Duster I just give up.
Yes you are entitled to an opinion but you will argue to the death lol

Back to Big Hero 6. So will Silver Samurai be replaced?