Disney Animation: No More Fairy Tales (for now)

[disneyboy20022]

The original tale of Beauty and the Beast was French, meaning Beauty's name was originally Belle. You are right that her sisters (different versions give different numbers of sisters) were removed, and that bugs me, but the book said her sisters were after handsome suitors and that seems to be Gaston and the three girls who fawn over him....

OMG so your saying the Babettes could be in a strange twist Belle's Sisters though not officially such as Ursula and Triton being brother/sister in one storyboard plot they had for TLM

[Goliath]

I didn't mean to condemn Disney, Pixar or Dreamworks - I was simply saying that I feel like there is a certain expectation attached to them in terms their humor. It seems more and more CG films have this underlying set of jokes and cultural references that only an older crowd would understand. There was a time in animation when that wasn't necessary to bring in an audience. It's not that I don't like these films, it's not that I feel like they should stop making them, but yes I do wish there were some that evaded this formula. An animated film shouldn't have to be laugh-out-loud funny to be good. Whether you agree or not, you don't have to act so condescending. And for the record, "wit" isn't a daft donkey, a sarcastic teenager, a loud mouthed green monster, a dim witted pick-up truck or a dog that speaks.

I agree whole-heartedly with this. This has been something I have been trying to put in words for the longest time, but I was never able to do it. Now you have done it for me, so thanks! This trend has really been bugging me the last decade. I wonder why Rapunzel (as it's called in The Netherlands) stands on this issue. The trailer isn't very promising in that regard (with the whole "smolder" (sp?) thing).

BK, you were very mean to me and others. [...] So if you say such mean things about me and the others, they also apply to you. All that you said, all the names you called us.

Did I read a wholly different post than you? 'Cause I haven't seen any name-calling and 'being mean'.

[Disney Duster]

Disneyboy, well, no, I meant that her sisters and their suitors kind of turned into those characters. But wouldn't it be interesting if those really were her sisters and they just never mentioned it? I mean, I guess they always could be!

I personally think they should have made them her sisters, because then it would be more faithful to the original tale without changing their effect on the movie at all! They may just have to look a slight bit more like Belle and be more jealous of her, that's all.

Dragonlion, ah, thank you! I knew there was a reason the Middle east still felt right.

Duckburger thanks for that, your full of a lot of good and smart ability to find that article that none of us have heard of, that gives hope, though I'm also worried about it being CGI. Maybe Winnie the Pooh will help decide? Pooh better do good...!

Super Aurora, I just know there is an electric guitar rock sound in the beginning song. I like it, but it's weird to be in the time and setting of the movie and even though it's small, it breaks Disney tradition, even the slightest bit.

I knew Pascal was there for the art theme. Even his name I think is from an artist. And I'm glad it's possible for him to be in that kind of setting because he seems great.

I actually don't know if I am mad at Treasure Planet anymore. I guess I can see it as a totally new story. The same for The Princess and the Frog actually. It's just that we know they were clearly based on pre-existing material which Walt was always much more faithful to, except (you think) Jungle Book, and so...

Ok, I don't own Jungle Book's DVD with all the bonus features, though maybe I should because my mom likes it so much. So I finally looked up about the original book, and I'm glad at did.

There was no way to really make a feature out of that book (that was like the other Disney animated features) without seriously messing around with it. It's funny, because Walt had to change it in order to make it like his other animated classics!

First, not all the stories are about the same characters or even the same locations. I mean, I've seen the story of Riki Tiki Tavi the Mongoose being a seperate thing, not from The Jungle Book! Then, the stories are not even in chronological order. But all of the things that happen in the movie came from the stories about Mowgli. So they actually did have to read the book, obviously. At least a lot of directors and story men.

I completely see why it was necessary for Walt to do what he did, and it was to actually make it fit Disney tradition more.

The changes are still not the same kind of thing Tangled did at all. The character's backgrounds were not changed so hugely, the title was not changed, the music didn't have anachronistic instruments (only the style/melody). In fact, look, if they just changed those three things, then Rapunzel would feel like a return to how Disney was, and we would feel like they "came back".

But maybe with Tangled, we'll feel like they half came back, or they came back in some funny disguise.

[Patrick]

I agree whole-heartedly with this. This has been something I have been trying to put in words for the longest time, but I was never able to do it. Now you have done it for me, so thanks! This trend has really been bugging me the last decade. I wonder why Rapunzel (as it's called in The Netherlands) stands on this issue. The trailer isn't very promising in that regard (with the whole "smolder" (sp?) thing).

I've seen it twice! I would say it's a really good balance between something like The Little Mermaid and the newer age of movies. There are so many aesthetic ties and story similarities to The Little Mermaid, Sleeping Beauty and Beauty and the Beast that it really feels just as they've said it does - a slightly modernized classic. A lot of the footage from the trailers (her throwing Flynn out the window with her hair or dropping her hair on top of him) didn't even make it into the movie. That whole smolder bit is a rarity in the film. I was completely surprised.

[Super Aurora]

I agree whole-heartedly with this. This has been something I have been trying to put in words for the longest time, but I was never able to do it. Now you have done it for me, so thanks! This trend has really been bugging me the last decade. I wonder why Rapunzel (as it's called in The Netherlands) stands on this issue. The trailer isn't very promising in that regard (with the whole "smolder" (sp?) thing).

Like Patrick said, It's not what the trailer made you think it is. It's good movie. Maybe not the best, but I gurantee you you'll going to say it vastly better than Princess and the Frog. Since you like Mermaid, I think you'll like the character of Rapunzel a lot as well.

Super Aurora, I just know there is an electric guitar rock sound in the beginning song. I like it, but it's weird to be in the time and setting of the movie and even though it's small, it breaks Disney tradition, even the slightest bit..

I'm hearing impaired so maybe I didn't hear that riff clearly. As for a music in correct time setting. That is nice and great, but not every movie needs to abide to that formula. This one isn't all that obnoxious so I don't understand it's problem.

And I'm glad it's possible for him to be in that kind of setting because he seems great.

Well the movie look no where near the Mediterrean sea coast so I'm assuming it's the art thing.

But if you want to make your imagination wild, it could be that the chameleon was an item traded. Judging from few things in the movie the closest time era I could say is 1500's. That was a time when commercialism and sea expedition became a huge thing.

Ok, I don't own Jungle Book's DVD with all the bonus features, though maybe I should because my mom likes it so much. So I finally looked up about the original book, and I'm glad at did.

DVD is good. the bonus give some good info.

There was no way to really make a feature out of that book (that was like the other Disney animated features) without seriously messing around with it. It's funny, because Walt had to change it in order to make it like his other animated classics!

They could done it same manner with what they did with Alice. Alice in Wonderland is a much harder book to adapt to film(animated or live action) than Jungle Book.

I completely see why it was necessary for Walt to do what he did, and it was to actually make it fit Disney tradition more.

The changes are still not the same kind of thing Tangled did at all. The character's backgrounds were not changed so hugely, the title was not changed, the music didn't have anachronistic instruments (only the style/melody).

An example: Kaa in the book wasn't an enemy of mowgli. In fact Kaa was one of Mowgli's mentor along with Baloo and bagheera. I'd say that's a huge change in role going by your definition of character change.

In fact, look, if they just changed those three things, then Rapunzel would feel like a return to how Disney was, and we would feel like they "came back".

Only the title I agree with should be change back. But it doesn't bother me now.

Tangled is a much as disney as any other disney movie....

But maybe with Tangled, we'll feel like they half came back, or they came back in some funny disguise.

It did a good job and felt like Disney movie, according to most people who saw it based on many reviews i've read. Everyone who saw it, myself included, felt same way or at least similar to it

The way you worded it is as if your opinion of movie which you didn't even fully watched yet, all our opinion. Saying ["we'll" feel like....etc]

[DisneyJedi]

Okay, I'm a little worried because of sources saying that Tangled's budget IS in fact $260 million. This movie HAS to recoup its budget. I mean, how does Disney expect this to do so well if their budget is so damn high?!

Okay, sure it earned about $70 million over the weekend, yesterday's numbers included. But will they be able to earn millions more with more competition coming up?

[Disney Duster]

DisneyJedi, I also really hope it makes back it's money and much, much more!

Super Aurora, yes, I imagined Pascal as a trade. I mean, I don't even know how Mother Gothel got half those rick-looking things for Rapunzel...

As for Kaa in The Jungle Book, he was actually not one of Mowgli's mentors at the time of the climax the movie has with the monkeys. In the original story, he had to be goaded into helping Baloo and Bagheera rescue Mowgli from the monkeys. He then hypnotizes the monkeys and Baloo and Bagheera are also in the trance. But I guess later he does become a mentor. But in the Disney film he's not quite a big villain either, he's much like how Kaa started out in the beginning of the original.

You debated very well, but when I finally researched the original Jungle Book, I see that it fits with Disney's traditions and that was pretty much the only way they could really do it. The Jungle Book is a really strange case anyway, and very hard to make into a film. And I have to disagree that Alice is harder, because like I said I think Jungle Book is harder since it follows other characters in completely different locations (where as at least Alice always followed Alice wherever she went) and is not in chronological order (while Alice is chronological order).

[skyler888]

Disney Duster "Tangled" really does take as much liberties storywise as most disney movies do

i most of disney's classics came out in the age of the internet and easy access to information and open forums for peoples opinions there would be outrage

imagine the purists reacting over the little mermaid back when it came out

in my opinion that movie takes some of the biggest liberties in it's story, while keeping it disney appropriate


the original tale was this dark, serious story of a girl who becomes human, looses her love, and kills herself

disney's has a singing crab




i think you are just blinded by disney's movies, as they are apart of history and how we as a society view fairytales, it's always the disney version stuck in our heads


and because the story or rapunzel hasn't been made by disney, it was easier to take in and become much more aware and biased to the original story


also, it seems you could be harboring some sort of angst about this movie as it isn't hand drawn animation, which i know many of us had, but were able to get over and just witness what a fun, grand, exciting and heartwarming tale it is

[Super Aurora]

As for Kaa in The Jungle Book, he was actually not one of Mowgli's mentors at the time of the climax the movie has with the monkeys.

You mean "the book", not movie, right?
Doesn't matter, still became an ally of Mowgli. And was no way a direct villain like disney's

In the original story, he had to be goaded into helping Baloo and Bagheera rescue Mowgli from the monkeys. He then hypnotizes the monkeys and Baloo and Bagheera are also in the trance. But I guess later he does become a mentor.

yeah and help Mowgli, thus becoming an ally aid for him. Why can't you just accept that the book's kaa and movie's drastically different?

But in the Disney film he's not quite a big villain either, he's much like how Kaa started out in the beginning of the original.

He's still a villain in the movie. In the book he was more of an anti-hero, if that's could be best describe his character. But he was never one to intend to harm Mowgli directly. In the movie, first thing Kaa wanted do is eat Mowgli. Again, why are you trying to jump around this?

You debated very well, but when I finally researched the original Jungle Book, I see that it fits with Disney's traditions and that was pretty much the only way they could really do it. The Jungle Book is a really strange case anyway, and very hard to make into a film.

Whether it fits this "tradition" or not of Disney is not the point I was initally making. I'm starting to see why people are really annoyed with you.

And you seems to act like you won the discussion or something...

And I have to disagree that Alice is harder, because like I said I think Jungle Book is harder since it follows other characters in completely different locations (where as at least Alice always followed Alice wherever she went) and is not in chronological order (while Alice is chronological order).

That's not what I'm referring by with adapting Alice. The story of Alice in wonderland is more of a tale playing with logic and using literay nonsense genre. Since Lewis Carrol was a mathemadition he involve all type mathematic logic in his story. This is the core part of the story Lewis emphisize. The other half is the narrative story structure which what most people adapt to. On down side it miss out the first part that makes the story such a classic to begin with.
With Jungle book, yes it has various stories scatter, but they're all still connect. You haven't seen this anime but Bacano does similar thing.

But all this shit is not my main point. The main point is that I provide points that countered your statement(you said "Walt never made major changes" and I countered it with example: Jungle book.), and then you try to jump around it and detrail it. Once again I'm starting to see many people frustration with you.

[nomad2010]

For all those still rambling on about Disney quitting the fairy-tale business... It's a lie.

Deadline:

Source: http://www.deadline.com/2010/11/first-b ... -expected/

"According to some media, this 50th animated Disney film is the kind of movie that the new regime doesn't want to make anymore. Which is why a Magic Kingdom denizen warned me in advance "not to buy into that. The Los Angeles Times is beyond idiotic in its death toll on animation as you well know. Though this is not Toy Story and should not be compared to that." Maybe so, but Tangled really overperformed by doubling Hollywood's expectations for the 2nd best Thanksgiving weekend opener ever (not adjusted for higher 3D ticket prices). Add the international weekend tally of $13.8M, and that's a global cume after 5 days of $82.8M. Then again, Disney has done well on previous Thanksgiving weekends (Enchanted, 101 Dalmations, A Bug's Life, Toy Story), boasting five of the last top six #1 movies during this time slot. This renamed Rapunzel also benefitted most from the Warner Bros decision not to release HP/Deathly Hallows in 3D, allowing Tangled more breathing room on its 2,413 3D screens. And though I and many others took early swipes at new marketing czarina MT Carney, she ensured this "A+" CinemaScore toon wasn't dismissed as just another Disney fairy tale princess story, taking pains to attract boys by emphasizing the toon's male hero and making some surprising TV ads aimed at parents. (I especially liked the clever hair growth spot during a recent Saturday Night Live.) Mandy Moore voiced/performed all the songs opposite Zachary Levi and both promoted the heck out of the movie. This was the largest U.S. word-of-mouth screening program for a Disney animated film ever -- 250 screenings in 50 U.S. markets over 5 weeks -- and the first global junket held at Disneyland. Tangled is already positively impacting other lines of business. Rapunzel and Flynn Rider also made appearances at 17 NBA games, 4 NHL games, 4 NFL games, 1 NCAA football game, etc. Most important to the Disney money machine is that Tangled merchandise is selling very well in advance of the holiday season for the corporation's Consumer Products division."

I'm sure this was posted, but I've read similar things such as this all over the place. Disney is FAR from done with fairy-tales. I'm sure we'll be getting an announcement that Snow Queen is back in development any time now thanks to Tangled's performance at the box office.

[Escapay]

I'm pretty sure the article was debunked on the first page of this thread. But I never got around to updating the thread title, and to be honest, I don't care to. I've already e-mailed the mods for this thread to be locked because it's gradually degenerated into a mudslinging arena like the "LDS & Disney" thread, and changing the thread title would be too little too late anyway.

albert

[Jackoleen]

Dear Escapay,

I feel flattered to have been quoted by you, but I don't know what the acronym "WIST" stands for?

Thank you in advance for your reply.

[DisneyJedi]

For all those still rambling on about Disney quitting the fairy-tale business... It's a lie.

Deadline:

Source: http://www.deadline.com/2010/11/first-b ... -expected/

"According to some media, this 50th animated Disney film is the kind of movie that the new regime doesn't want to make anymore. Which is why a Magic Kingdom denizen warned me in advance "not to buy into that. The Los Angeles Times is beyond idiotic in its death toll on animation as you well know. Though this is not Toy Story and should not be compared to that." Maybe so, but Tangled really overperformed by doubling Hollywood's expectations for the 2nd best Thanksgiving weekend opener ever (not adjusted for higher 3D ticket prices). Add the international weekend tally of $13.8M, and that's a global cume after 5 days of $82.8M. Then again, Disney has done well on previous Thanksgiving weekends (Enchanted, 101 Dalmations, A Bug's Life, Toy Story), boasting five of the last top six #1 movies during this time slot. This renamed Rapunzel also benefitted most from the Warner Bros decision not to release HP/Deathly Hallows in 3D, allowing Tangled more breathing room on its 2,413 3D screens. And though I and many others took early swipes at new marketing czarina MT Carney, she ensured this "A+" CinemaScore toon wasn't dismissed as just another Disney fairy tale princess story, taking pains to attract boys by emphasizing the toon's male hero and making some surprising TV ads aimed at parents. (I especially liked the clever hair growth spot during a recent Saturday Night Live.) Mandy Moore voiced/performed all the songs opposite Zachary Levi and both promoted the heck out of the movie. This was the largest U.S. word-of-mouth screening program for a Disney animated film ever -- 250 screenings in 50 U.S. markets over 5 weeks -- and the first global junket held at Disneyland. Tangled is already positively impacting other lines of business. Rapunzel and Flynn Rider also made appearances at 17 NBA games, 4 NHL games, 4 NFL games, 1 NCAA football game, etc. Most important to the Disney money machine is that Tangled merchandise is selling very well in advance of the holiday season for the corporation's Consumer Products division."

I'm sure this was posted, but I've read similar things such as this all over the place. Disney is FAR from done with fairy-tales. I'm sure we'll be getting an announcement that Snow Queen is back in development any time now thanks to Tangled's performance at the box office.

Hold on. Only time will tell if we will ever get to see The Snow Queen come to life. I mean, the movie was shelved after The Princess and the Frog didn't do so hot even though crowds loved it, which I don't want to hear stuff about it being a lame movie, because that's a petty excuse. Ending there.

But glad to know that they're NOT closing the book on fairy tales.

[Escapay]

Dear Escapay,

I feel flattered to have been quoted by you, but I don't know what the acronym "WIST" stands for?

Hi Jackoleen.

WIST stands for "Wish I Said That". It's a series I've had in my signature since 2006 or so, in which I select amusing quotes from various forum members that I find either amazing or hilarious and makes me wish I had said it (hence "wish I said that"). In the WIST featured in my signature now, the WIST is actually what Goliath says, which was brought on by your comment about sexy Walt. There've been a lot of...unique points of view on UD, but yours was the first I (and I'm sure many others) ever saw referring to Walt as sexy. Thus, when Goliath brought it to light (I skimmed your original post that had that line, so I missed it) by commenting on it, I simply had to WIST it.

Also, to save the trouble of someone else asking later, WTF is for Whiskey Tango Foxtrot (hurray for NATO Phonetic Alphabet!) which obviously stands for other phrases too. It's my way of saying, "Did that person REALLY just say THAT?". It's often reserved for quotes from members that I find utterly ridiculous, either because the member was ridiculous for saying it, or because the idea they're presenting is ridiculous.

albert

[Disney Duster]

Skyler88, I'm going to talk to you like you did to me. First, no, Disney did not take the same liberties with Tangled as they did with other films.

I explained it all in detail already, but you just lumped them all as the same kind of changes in a big general sweep. They have never changed major main character's backgrounds like that before, or the title.

All they had to do was keep those few things more like how past Disney films were, to keep the tradition, but they decided to not care about Disney's tradition at all.

The CGI was the last thing I had a problem with. I was fine with the CGI idea because I knew they were going to make it like the past Disney films by making it look more like fairy tale paintings and more like hand-drawn animation. I don't think they achieved that goal very well, but it is the last thing I have to complain about, and not a big problem for me.

Super Aurora, the climax of The Jungle Book movie I thought was the monkey part. I guess it really is the part with Shere Kahn, it's just they both happen pretty close to each other, they both are towards the end of the movie.

I think Kaa in the film acts as Kaa would have before he was insulted and practically forced to help Mowgli and later become his mentor. I believe he would have tried to eat Mowgli until the time he was made to save Mowgli and become his mentor.

All the time before the monkey part, which is so close to the end, he was not Mowgli's mentor, so it wouldn't make sense for him to be.

Now, you said a that you felt like I was saying I won the argument, but I think you were hypocritical by then saying that you "countered" my argument, which sounds like you meant that's the same as winning. So if only one of us can "win", then wtf?

I'm not trying to go around your argument. I just listened to what you said, then I did some research, and I still ended up feeling the same way I did. It still feels Disney and it still feels different from what Tangled did.

I think the main reason I am okay with Kaa and not okay with Tangled is that Kaa was a minor character and Tangled changed the backgrounds and roles of all three major/main characters, the girl, the guy, and the villain.

It's just that the story doesn't even start out like the original Rapunzel story does, it's like "Who are these King and Queen people? What's this drop of sun that turns into a flower thing? What's this old ordinary women who finds it on a rock thing?"

If Disney keeps going farther and farther from their tradition, they won't be faithful to the original stories or Disney tradition at all. I know they must change a little bit, but as they change more and in bigger ways, it becomes not changing but turning into something else.

As for Alice in Wonderland, I read both books and don't remember any math in it. Is the word play somehow the math? WHAT? And how could that possibly be translated into a movie at all?

[CJ]

I've already e-mailed the mods for this thread to be locked because it's gradually degenerated into a mudslinging arena like the "LDS & Disney" thread, and changing the thread title would be too little too late anyway.

Per request of the thread creator, this thread is being locked.

I would like to emphasis a few things:
1. Personal attacks are not allowed: this includes the "mudslinging" types of posts that have recently popped up in several threads.
2. A person who disagrees with you is not "being mean". As long as that person's tone and message is not rude, hateful, or attacking, they are not being mean.
3. If you have a personal problem with a forum member: contact a moderator or the person you have a problem with outside the forums (email, chat, ect...) to work out your differences.

[Sotiris]

BUMP!

In case anyone still had doubts, Zachary Levi just confirmed that Disney was indeed planning to stop producing animated fairy tales after Tangled just as L.A. Times originally reported and despite Ed Catmull's ardent denial of that report. Yet another lie exposed.

Zack [Levi] did admit that Disney’s John Lasseter swore off any more fairy tale movies after Tangled. “He said, ‘Alright guys, this is it. This is the last one,’ and then he made Tangled and we did really well and it was enough to buoy that for them to even go and make Frozen. So I will say to the Frozen people, ‘You’re welcome’”.

Source: http://www.etonline.com/tv/188991_zacha ... ck_update/