Snow White And The Seven Dwarfs: Diamond Edition (Pt. 2)

[Neal]

Why do people freak so much about the colors? I don't think it is even possible despite 2009 technologies to get the perfect original color from a 72 year-old movie!

Everything else from the original is there:

The art. They didn't re-animate any old scenes.
The music. They didn't re-record a soundtrack for it.
The audio. They didn't make a new voice track for it.
The titles. They didn't cut or shorten the opening or closing credits.
Scenes. This film has not been subjected to the censorship of Disney's other films.

Everything else from the original is in place. Why do people freak about colors. Do you think the frescos in the Sistine Chapel are the same color they were when painted? And do you think even the most skilled restoration person can return them to the original colors?

I don't quite get this whole colors spiel. I could understand if Disney had thrown out the old audio and re-recorded it with Demi Lovato as Snow White and Susan Sarandon as the Queen.

I could understand if they re-animated some old scenes they felt were poorly drawn.

I could understand if they cut chunks of the movie out.

But they didn't. The story, audio, drawings, credits are all in place. So, the coloring seems like the least of our issues.

[Disney Duster]

But it's still an issue.

When the original artists originally toned the colors down to look more like a realistic movie, and added all these textures to it, and colors convey mood, and other aspects and intentions, it matters a lot. Think of a sad scene with happy bright colors. When the animation would be only made of lines were it not for the colors, it matters.

If Snow White is supposed to have "lips red as the rose" and she has ornage lips (which, actually, sometimes the reds on her come close to in the last DVD) then that's not good. Unless they intended it to be an orange-looking red.

Look, the colors are important, and I know that it's hard for them to get them exactly as they were, and maybe they never can.

But it has long been an issue that they seem to change the colors on a whim.

Some people who worked for Disney and some video experts said it looks like Disney has tampered with the colors as they can be altered.

But there are tests they can do with Technicolor, not looking at the painted cels, but doing Technicolor tests (because the cel paint color changes in Technicolor photography!), to see which colors they are supposed to be.

[Escapay]

Why do people freak so much about the colors? I don't think it is even possible despite 2009 technologies to get the perfect original color from a 72 year-old movie!

Well, if Warner can have success with their Ultra-Resolution process on Technicolor films, Disney should be able to do something to "fix" their colours.

Though I agree with you, Neal. I don't see why there's always such a major freak out over them, beyond the whole "we want to preserve the original theatrical experience". But even that is impossible since nothing can ever recreate that unless you have a time machine that will take you there. In the meantime, home video and whatever Disney does to it is the best they'll get.

BTW, Neal, if you wanna learn more about Technicolor, check out "Glorious Technicolor", a mindblowing documentary found on the Warner Bros. DVD for The Adventures of Robin Hood. It's all about the process and how colours are supposed to look in Technicolour. Some Disney fans could benefit from a viewing of that as well, rather than holding on to old laserdiscs with fourth-or-fifth-generation video transfers.

albert

[yukitora]

looks like the recoloring debate started early this (quarter) year.

[2099net]

But it has long been an issue that they seem to change the colors on a whim.

Some people who worked for Disney and some video experts said it looks like Disney has tampered with the colors as they can be altered.

But there are tests they can do with Technicolor, not looking at the painted cels, but doing Technicolor tests (because the cel paint color changes in Technicolor photography!), to see which colors they are supposed to be.

But its also been established that colours varied from batches of the same film print. Developing a film in those days was a complex photochemical process involving many steps, timings and chemical mixtures just to develop the negative. And then - on the old three strip Tecnicolour films anyway - you had to ensure the process was correct on all three colour negatives, and when printed onto the actual film print, you had to ensure that process was correct, with each colour negative getting the same exposure (and that's ignoring the fact colour balance could have been deliberately tampered when printing - for example, when Snow White is lost in the forest, they may have decided to emphasis the blue - just like films today sometimes have their colour balance or contrast altered for stylistic reasons).

Plus the whole process an analogue process - can you imagine how many possible variations there could be? How hard it would be to document them? Even one batch of developing fluid over another may have different results on the colours, just like today you're supposed to buy paint cans from the same factory batch to avoid mis-matches when painting your walls.

So even those tests could have resulted in different colours on the actual film when it was actually finalised. I don't think anybody, at any stage could have confidently predicted the actual final colours (but I'm sure they could get a good idea of the colours through testing).

It was never a definitive process. Snow White, when it was first shown, may have had several colour variations screened all over the country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technicolo ... hival_work

An article on the restoration of Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope claimed that a rare dye-transfer print of the movie, made for director George Lucas at the British Technicolor lab during its initial run, had been used as a color reference for the restoration. The article claimed that conventional color prints of the movie had all degraded over the years to the extent that no two had the same color balance. However, because of the variation in color balance per print, dye-transfer prints are used in the professional restoration world as only a rough guideline.

And even then, different screen materials have different effects on the colours, confusing the issue even more. The same film could look different at two different theaters.
http://www.projectorscreens.ie/projecto ... erial.html

[DisneyJedi]

I don't quite get this whole colors spiel. I could understand if Disney had thrown out the old audio and re-recorded it with Demi Lovato as Snow White and Susan Sarandon as the Queen.

Demi Lovato as Snow White? That's just silly.

[Mason_Ireton]

I found this amusin MadTV sketch spoofin Disney Princess, too bad it can't be placed on the new DVD

warnin a few unexpected slurs are thrown towards Snow White.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUM7xwTf_UY

and here's another one where Snow White goes out on the town.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6gMd3GKSFE

[KubrickFan]

Why do people freak so much about the colors? I don't think it is even possible despite 2009 technologies to get the perfect original color from a 72 year-old movie!

Well, if Warner can have success with their Ultra-Resolution process on Technicolor films, Disney should be able to do something to "fix" their colours.

There are still complaints about Warner's Ultra-Resolution method. Most think that the films look too yellow.

But like 2099net said, there's no definitive way to find out about the colors. The artwork could be used, but if those were painted to come out differently in the Technicolor process, you're still nowhere. Now, stop this argument until the Blu-ray hits the streets .

The art. They didn't re-animate any old scenes.
The music. They didn't re-record a soundtrack for it.
The audio. They didn't make a new voice track for it.
The titles. They didn't cut or shorten the opening or closing credits.
Scenes. This film has not been subjected to the censorship of Disney's other films.

The audio track was remixed to a 5.1 track, so the dialogue, the music and the sound effects had to be rematched. So, technically, it is different from the original one. I don't know if the R1 version got the original mono track, but in R2 there was only the remixed track.
And most of the time the titles are redone too to smoothen the transitions.

[goofystitch]

At the NFFC convention, Les Perkins gave a presentation. He owns his own bonus feature production studio and has also been brought in as a creative consultant on some of their restorations. He assured us that when Disney restores their classic films, they try to get as close to the original colors as possible. They use multiple sources as well as bring in people who remember the film from it's first release to help them out.

Basically, how we remember the colors from theatrical rereleases or home video isn't the way the colors were meant to be. Just because they look different to you in the new restoration does not mean that they are wrong. None of us were around in 1938/39 to see Snow White in it's first release.

[Disney Duster]

^ First I just have to say that it was either Frank Thomas or Ollie Johnston, who were around for Snow White first release, who said the colors of Snow White's first restoration were nice, but not the colors they used!

Still, that's good info everyone, thank you. But there's still some things.

Andreas Deja said when they first found Sleeping Beauty's cels, she had green hair. So they had to do tests to get her hair the gold color they were looking for in the restoration.

Floyd Norman who worked on Sleeping Beauty when it was made in the 1950's said that the new restoration was very close, but still not exactly right in every single scene.

So, from this at least, it seems they really can come at least very close to figuring out how the colors should look.

Now, as I said, some people who worked at Disney and some video experts noted the colors of certain restored Disney films seemed to be purposely made to look different than they originally did. Like one person said they could choose to make the sleeves on a character's shirt gray or green. Gray was what was originally intended, but they could choose to make it green so it's more colorful to appeal to kiddies and people who think new, bright, and colorful is always better.

Perhaps Snow White had a problem with some brightness and rather orange looking reds, like the apple looked pretty darn orange.

But really, maybe it was only Cinderella that suffered from purposeful tampering. First of all, Lowry said it was their best restoration yet. It is obvious that it is the most drastic of restorations in how different it looks from all previous releases and sights of the film. Then I heard in a few places that they purposely tried to make the film look new and bright for a new generation, so kids don't think it is too old. Then, the screening at the El Capitan, which some people who worked on the original film in the 40's attended, actually was not finished in restoration, so what's on the DVD was not shown at the El Capitan. But that's that for now.

[KubrickFan]

I think Disney tries their best on these restorations. Due to all kinds of circumstances they'll probably never get it the way it looked so many years ago, but I do think it's close.
But Lowry doesn't do the color correction. That's done at Disney's facilities, so Lowry isn't the problem here, if there is one.

[The_Iceflash]

But really, maybe it was only Cinderella that suffered from purposeful tampering. First of all, Lowry said it was their best restoration yet. It is obvious that it is the most drastic of restorations in how different it looks from all previous releases and sights of the film. Then I heard in a few places that they purposely tried to make the film look new and bright for a new generation, so kids don't think it is too old. Then, the screening at the El Capitan, which some people who worked on the original film in the 40's attended, actually was not finished in restoration, so what's on the DVD was not shown at the El Capitan. But that's that for now.

I disagree with that opinion on Cinderella's restoration. Just because it doesn't look how it does on past home video releases, etc doesn't mean that's not what it's supposed to look like. I don't find it too bright. I think it looks great. Just because we're not used to seeing it that way doesn't mean it's not supposed to.

@KubrickFan: I agree.

[CampbellzSoup]

Eh colors are colore whatever.

When they start to re-record dialog/insert Disney TV stars into the main film call me.

[Disney Duster]

I disagree with that opinion on Cinderella's restoration.

Opinion?! I heard this info from inside sources! I heard some of this info from people who heard from people within the company! I heard some of this info from people who actually worked for the company! I heard some of this info from people who were at the El Capitan and then watched the DVD!

In fact, Disney themselves said they made Cinderella shine brighter or better than the original or whatever in promotional speak!

I listened when others provided info in here...!

[Deco King]

I'm still surprised that Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs still has no website/web pages on the Disneygo.com website!!

I would have expected something by now , after all it's almost August , and the movie hits BluRay on October 6th 2009 !!

[Disney Villain]

I'm still surprised that Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs still has no website/web pages on the Disneygo.com website!!

I would have expected something by now , after all it's almost August , and the movie hits BluRay on October 6th 2009 !!

Like I stated before, the Platinum edition site for Sleeping Beauty didn't open until the third week of August last year. Don't expect to see a site for Snow White until mid to late August. The Fall PE site always open in mid to late August.

[CampbellzSoup]

I'm still surprised that Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs still has no website/web pages on the Disneygo.com website!!

I would have expected something by now , after all it's almost August , and the movie hits BluRay on October 6th 2009 !!

Take a chill pill Deco I'm just as excited as you are, but all good things come to those who wait.

[The_Iceflash]

I disagree with that opinion on Cinderella's restoration.

Opinion?! I heard this info from inside sources! I heard some of this info from people who heard from people within the company! I heard some of this info from people who actually worked for the company! I heard some of this info from people who were at the El Capitan and then watched the DVD!

In fact, Disney themselves said they made Cinderella shine brighter or better than the original or whatever in promotional speak!

I listened when others provided info in here...!

I've seen equally compelling evidence to the contrary.

[Deco King]

I'm looking forward to seeing what merchandising will be released to "tie in" with Snow White and The Seven Dwarfs on Blu Ray in October.

Amazon.com has a beautiful Gustav Tenggren book of Snow White coming out in August which I'll buy . Amazon.fr the French Amazon website has a Blanche Neige by Pierre Lambert coming out in October at about 36 Euros. Well worth buying , it must be a paperback edition of his 2002 ( or thereabouts! ) book , which knocks spots off the Ison book published in America.

[Old Fish Tale]

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