Loss of Quality in the Platinum Editions?

[blackcauldron85]

Even though the Platinum Editions are supposed to be the pinnacle of Disney DVDs, "Peter Pan" is still a re-release. Disney is re-releasing "The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh", for example, with pretty much the same bonus features as the last release. Those who hadn't picked up the movie on DVD before will have the chance. I didn't have a PP DVD before the Platinum, so I'm happy with it. I can understand, though, why it'd be hard to swallow paying full price for a movie that you already own on DVD, with many of the same bonus features- you'd only be getting a few more extras on this new DVD release. But, essentially Disney is treating PP as a re-release, it seems;
"SnowWhite", ""Bambi", "Cinderella", "Beauty and the Beast", "Aladdin", and "The Lion King" had never been released on DVD before, so, of course, if people wanted these movies on DVD, they'd buy the Platinum Editions. "Lady and the Tramp", "The Jungle Book", and "The Little Mermaid" only had Limited Issue DVDs, and those had been out of print long before the Platinum Editions came out; many people weren't buying DVDs in 1999, compared to today, so, for most people, if they wanted the movie on DVD, the Platinum Editions were the way to go; for those who already owned the Limited Issue DVDs, then they had to decide if they wanted a better transfer and bonus features. For "Peter Pan", though, the Limited Issue was available, but, more importantly, the Sepcial Edition was available; PP was the first Platinum Edition DVD to have a very good existing DVD available. The same problem will be for the upcoming "Sleeping Beauty" and "Fantasia" (and maybe "Fantasia 2000"?) Platinum Edition DVDs- of course we don't know what bonus features will be on these upcoming DVDs, but many people already have wonderful DVDs of these movies, so you really have to decide if it's worth double-dipping/upgrading. For some people, they don't care about the new transfer, and they're content with what bonus features are on their PP:SE DVD. For others, they care very much about the new transfer, so they'd double dip for that reason, and then there are others who want what new bonus features there are.
With any Disney rerelease, there are always people who missed out the first time, and those who will buy any DVD that Disney releases.

[Disneykid]

Excellent post, Escapay! You've just did what I've been wanting to do for a long time on the forum (list the bonus materials of each Platinum and compare running times). Even though my ranking of them is slightly different from yours, yours is the best approach because it's about quality over quantity (I admit stuff like Peter Pan and Lady and the Tramp leave me underwhelmed when I breeze through them so quickly, but when I think about it, they really do reveal more about their respective productions than The Lion King or The Little Mermaid do).

I like the idea of looking at Peter Pan's commentary like a 70-minute plus documentary. In that way, it would match the others 50s films by having a long documentary (well, Alice wasn't treated to that luxury...) and no commentary. This is especially easy to imagine when you consider that all of the soundbites used for the 16-minute featurette show up unedited on the commentary track. Still, I hope that when the Sleeping Beauty PE rolls around, they create a new documentary for it and keep the current commentary (I always thought the SE lacked retrospective material even though it excels in everything else).

[Big Disney Fan]

But Roy E. Disney actually was the one who thought of the whole "Vault" concept. Certainly he's not in it for a buck, because he's related to Walt after all.

I guess that's why Roy was removed a while ago before coming back. I think the people in charge think that the name Disney only exists to make money and nothing more. It's like they don't want to hear Walt Disney at all.

[Escapay]

Michael

March 25, 2007

Professor Roberts

Directing

Intentions

Part I:
The magnificence of a character is what is so great about them that we could never be that way. They are better than us in their magnificence and no real person could ever achieve that. I don’t quite understand how that would apply to characters in plays based on real people, such as Julius Caesar, or other historical figures from real life, but I suppose in plays they are never exactly how they were in real life, because it is impossible to tell how they would have acted in every situation, unless there was video taken of the event. And then, often the actor’s job is not to perfectly capture a real person right down to the way they blinked their eyes (though getting things like that down should try to be attained), but just to put a new spin on the character, unique to the actor playing them, because then no actor’s portrayal of the character would be different.
In “Double Mandible”, the two only characters don’t obviously appear to be based on real people, but I could just not be in the know. And I think that anything we write that isn’t a copy of other fictious work will always be based off some of what we know from real life, purposely or not. The two characters are Betty and Bella, twin sisters who have been doing Water Ballet since they were 4. One is always going to be slightly older than the other, and I’m willing to bet on Betty being older than Bella because she’s always telling Bella what to do, and treats Bella more like a child. Though Bella is somewhat deserving of the treatment, acting like a child by being irresponsible, looking for distractions, and not being there for her sister. She is unsupportive and the young are usually the ones being supported, though neither sister supports the other’s true desires.
Betty’s magnificence comes from her passion, dedication, and hard work for her sport. She shows plenty of hard work by being at the press corps and handling it by herself, practicing so often that we get stage lines about her doing “water ballet stuff”, telling her sister that she needs to work more at it (if she practices what she preaches, but also that she tries to make the other half of her routine work as well), she does her part of the routine correctly, and even after it is messed up, she starts practicing again and vows to practice much more than before for the next competition. But part of her work ethic comes from her love of it. In other words, it could be possible that she only works as hard as she does because she loves to do that work, and she wouldn’t do it if she didn’t love it so much. She says, “I even love to practice” and seems enthusiastic about all aspect of water ballet, doing it over and over, she doesn’t seem to mind it at all.
Whether she practices only because she loves to is unclear, but her love of the sport is also unclear. She announces that she is “proud to be a waterlily” and sounds happy when talking about it, but then she sounds worried and negative about competing and the consequences of mistakes. Surely she loves but also fears competing. Her passion is the only thing total and complete. No matter what she does, whether she’s defending water ballet, competing in water ballet, talking about the outcomes of competing in water ballet, or trying to convince Bella to work and stay at water ballet, it is all full of passion. Passionate love, passionate fear, passionate anger, passion for keeping her sister with her.
Bella’s magnificence is split into two different paths. Her path to make her sister happy and stay with her as she is led to the famous , popular Olympics, and her path to find her own place in the world which she perpetuates will lead her to a desert populated only by animals.

Interesting essay, Mike. When do we get to see the rest?

ETA: And now it's gone...

Escapay

[kurtadisneyite]

two other points about Disney Platinum titles I worked on:

CINDERELLA PLATINUM had one of the longest running Main Menu loops ever created (vaguely remember it running around 4 minutes or so). A lot of new animation (but not characters - those (grand duke, etc.) were sourced from the original feature) was made for that menu. Ditto the bonus menu.

LITTLE MERMAID PLATINUM got an extensive Virtual tour that took a considerable time to make, as well as animated ride storyboards (the latter used the original presentations for a prototype Mermaid ride and retained the original art as much as possible).

[Escapay]

Hi Kurt, glad to see your back!

Couple question here...

Do you know why they decided not to create a new documentary for Peter Pan's Platinum? Was it simply budget reasons?

And more importantly, why did Disney feel it was necessary to offer the movie on the second disc, in inferior quality, with burned in "read-along" subtitles that could have easily been a subtitle option on the first disc?

Escapay

[Disneykid]

Yay, kurt! I'm glad to see you're still around! I, too, would like to know the answers to Escapay's questions along with this one: Why did Disney not include the Christmas Show from 1951? Are they purposely withholding it for another release (Return to Never Land, perhaps)? What about trailers? Any info you could provide would be hugely appreciated.

[kurtadisneyite]

Well, I've had interest in Disney for long time so it was hard to stay away for long

My last Disney work was princess lip-re-sync and effects for the Disney Princess DVD game (with picture of Snow White cozying up to Ariel on the back cover). Now I QA new animation software, and do FX work for Non-Disney features.

As to what is going on with current Disney DVD releases, I've no idea. Sorry.

As for DVD subtitles, they are usually a totally separate track - a data set that the DVD player superimposes over the feature. There should be no reason to embed them in the feature video itself. That would be a decision made by the authoring company as well as the client (in this case, Disney).

[UncleEd]

My big gripe with Peter Pan is the Christmas Show not being included. Had it been included I wouldn't mind the double dip so much. Did the LD have anything not on the DVD?

Anyone find it strange that Ron and John host the Peter Pan that Never Was but don't do so on their own films? Aladdin would have been a natural. If space was an issue the Alan Menken film could have been saved for Hercules.

[Beast_enchantment]

Is it just me or has the effort that goes into these DVDs declined in recent years? i have no issue with any of the restorations that these classic films undergo - for me they have never looked better.
my beef is in the extras department! they seem to be adding less and less backstage stuff nowadays - take the first platinum edition DVD Snow White:
this DVD had a wealth of extras - including alot of material not strictly related to that movie e.g Disney through the decades.
Next came Beauty and the Beast which was slightly lighter but still was a tough act to follow - it included a very innovative game and beautiful menu designs.
Then came the Lion King - this was the fall from grace. the extras were very much short featurettes that, while informative didnt amount to alot of material. not to mention repetitive menu designs and lack of trailers.
After the Lion King shambles came Aladdin - this DVD went up a notch with a very in-depth 2-hour documentary. Although this was amazing the DVD lacked the care taken witth the first 2 DVDs.
Bambi, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp and, especially Little Mermaid didnt even amount to half of what the Snow White DVD offered (lady and the tramp being the lesser of 3 evils).
i was extremely shocked at the Little Memaid lack of extras - compared to the BatB DVD treatment it is incredibly light, considering both these films were initially released one after the other - surley little mermaid had more material poking about the place. the highlight of the Little Mermaid DVD was a 45 minute documentary that was very lacklustre - the Snow White DVD had a 40 minute making of on it's FIRST DISC!!!!!! what is going on people!!!!!!!

When these movies are re-released i hope they are given much more material to make me proud of Disney again!

anyone agree? lol

[Escapay]

Is it just me or has the effort that goes into these DVDs declined in recent years?

Already discussed here:

Loss of Quality in Platinum Editions

But I love having this kind of topic, as it gives me even more chances to bitch and moan about Peter Pan and it's shoddy Platinum.

i have no issue with any of the restorations that these classic films undergo - for me they have never looked better.

Unsurprisingly, the restorations of some of the Platinums are sometimes a factor in people's negative opinion about the DVD. I need only point to Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella, The Little Mermaid, and Peter Pan, all of which had various criticisms regarding how they've been "restored". Of course, I don't want to open that can of worms again, but I'll just say I'm pretty satisfied with what was done, and it doesn't detract from the viewing experience for me.

my beef is in the extras department! they seem to be adding less and less backstage stuff nowadays

Very true. But the main reason some sets have a load of backstage stuff and some don't is that in the cases of Snow White and Cinderella, they already were found for their Deluxe Laserdisc sets. For most others, they had to start from scratch, so to speak, even if it was a recent film like Beauty and the Beast. Even so, when there's KNOWN material that SHOULD have been included (The Walt Disney Christmas Show, I'm looking at you!), then it becomes inexcusable when they decide to omit it from the release. Especially trailers, which should be the easiest things to find. I pretty much *live* for trailers on a DVD release, and it's such a pity that they're often left out of many releases these days.

Next came Beauty and the Beast which was slightly lighter but still was a tough act to follow - it included a very innovative game and beautiful menu designs.

I wasn't too crazy about the game, though I will agree it was innovative. But its "division" of the bonus disc was just...well, it was trying to please too many people. The Mrs. Potts section was basically a cutdown of 50-minute doc and a rather bland "Story Behind the Story" series of featurettes. While they did provide some good information, I would have rather these types of features be on the movies they're about, and not all together in the Beauty and the Beast disc.

Then came the Lion King - this was the fall from grace. the extras were very much short featurettes that, while informative didnt amount to alot of material. not to mention repetitive menu designs and lack of trailers.

I'm not a very big fan of The Lion King, I don't think I should even call myself a "fan". But I agree on how it's a "fall from grace", but not necessarily the straw that broke the camel's back. After all, when added together, the amount of featurettes makes up a very sizable amount of material, the problem is they're all too segmented and too much of a praising overview rather than serious stuff. And the serious stuff that IS on the disc are all old laserdisc materials.

After the Lion King shambles came Aladdin - this DVD went up a notch with a very in-depth 2-hour documentary. Although this was amazing the DVD lacked the care taken witth the first 2 DVDs.

I've got a heavy bias towards Aladdin, it's my favorite Disney film (along with Beauty and the Beast, so I would have loved its Platinum if it was as segmented and jumbled as The Lion King.

I have a feeling by lack of care you mean the lack of a complex menu system? For that, I'm rather grateful. It's one of the most straightforward DVDs from Disney, and doesn't need to resort to many gimmicks and long-ass animation transitions between menu pages. I wouldn't have minded seeing some of the Snow White creativity (sections like "Sultan's Palace", "Cave of Wonders", "Genie's Lamp", that kind of stuff). But if it came at the expense of some bonus materials, then I'll take the bonus material.

And even the Aladdin DVD could have been better, I admit. There's only fleeting references and a very minor featurette about the pre-Black Friday version, it would have been great to hear more about it beyond what I've read in books. Also, there's several more deleted scenes/concepts in the post-Black Friday version that are pretty much ignored (The Impossible Tests, the Jasmine-saves-herself-from-hourglass concept, and a few others). And in terms of archival material, the 25-minute doc from 1992 is a no-show (though portions are edited into the new documentary), and I would have loved if the still galleries were more extensive.

Bambi, Cinderella, Lady and the Tramp and, especially Little Mermaid didnt even amount to half of what the Snow White DVD offered (lady and the tramp being the lesser of 3 evils).

Actually, of the four you mentioned, Lady and the Tramp actually contains the least amount of material, if we're not counting TLM's commentary:

Lady and the Tramp: Production Specific Materials
136 minutes, 11 seconds

Cinderella: Production Specific Materials
Total: 158 minutes, 10 seconds

Bambi: Production Specific Materials
Total: 163 minutes, 17 seconds (93 minute, 17 seconds without Story Meetings)

The Little Mermaid Production-Specific Materials
181 minutes, 8 seconds (98 minutes, 8 seconds without commentary)

the highlight of the Little Mermaid DVD was a 45 minute documentary that was very lacklustre

Finally, someone that agrees with me regarding the documentary!

the Snow White DVD had a 40 minute making of on it's FIRST DISC!!!!!! what is going on people!!!!!!!

Well, the Snow White DVD (and most of Disney's DVDs from the early 2000s) followed a different "pattern" than what we've come to expect from Platinums. Also, Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 had their 48-minute docs on the movie disc as well, with their supplements on the Fantasia Legacy disc. And the Atlantis documentary is so extensive it *had* to be on the second disc. Starting with Aladdin, the Platinum docs followed a very basic design:

-The Story
-The Animation
-The Music
-The Voice Cast

And there may be an additional chapter regarding the Design or the Filmmakers. But essentially, Platinum docs are following that simple formula for what to talk about.

When these movies are re-released i hope they are given much more material to make me proud of Disney again!

anyone agree? lol

I definitely agree.

Scapsta

[Escapay]

Figured I'd bump this up so that it could be merged with the recent Platinum thread.

Did the LD have anything not on the DVD?

Acetate recordings regarding two story sequences:

"Captured by the Pirates" - August 9, 1949
"Introduction of Captain Hook and Mr. Smee" - June 21, 1950

Scaps

[SwordInTheStone777]

Disney needs to dig really deep inside their masive vault and find all these great things, especially Theatrical Trailers and TV Spots.

[Barbossa]

One feature that would be neat to add is for those movies that have rides based on them at the theme parks, have a ride-through on the DVD - like the virtual ride-through on the Little Mermaid Platinum.

[SwordInTheStone777]

We don't need the virtual ride games, A featurette about the rides would be better.

[Big Disney Fan]

We don't need the virtual ride games, A featurette about the rides would be better.

Hey, why not both the virtual ride AND the featurette on said ride?

[Beast_enchantment]

the thing i really hate about the menu designs is how simple the navigation is with those symbols. theyve taken away the 'adventurous' side to looking for yourself to find the material. Snow White and BATB had the most beautiful menu designs with a map of Snow White's kingdom and stained glass windows in the beast's castle. i know menus arent as important as the actual film and additonal material but for me the simplification of the menus also started the simplification of the backstage stuff.

[SwordInTheStone777]

I geuss if you wanted to you could, but I can live without out them.

[SpringHeelJack]

I agree with the simplification of the menus, but damn, "Lion King" was impossible to navigate. Sadly, in response, they made the menus so bland that a chimp with an ax in his head could navigate.

[BrandonH]

I still like the idea behind the Lion King menu navigation, but the decision to have certain featurettes in one menu group and not the other made it needlessly complicated. I love the early Platinum menus, but as long as the theme and locations of the film are represented in the menus, then I'm satisfied.