The 2007 Doctor Who (and spin-offs) Thread
A New Doctor Who Series 3 trailer, showing some interesting monster snippits... scarecrows, flying Daleks, the family of blood, pig men and well, one wierd alien too... and it looks like Blink may be about gorgons as rumoured (I'm sure that statue of the angel covering it's eyes is in the trailer as a clue). In addition we see the Doctor getting married (!) and Mr Saxon!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGoNQLeaSwI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGoNQLeaSwI
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Yes, Sec and the other three Cult of Skaro members will be in the Dalek 2 parter.
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Just thought I'd throw my thoughts in on last week's episode Smith and Jones, I've already made my thought clear to Netty, but I'll share them with ya.
Well like Netty, I think I too like Martha more than Rose. I was never really bothered about her fate at the end of S2, because in all honesty she never bothered me.
Anyway, what was a great episode was marred for me by a couple of things. First of all, despite the wonderful Anne Reid as the villainous plasmavore (Netty knew I would like her) I was slighty disappointed with her downfall and couldn't help but feel it was a slight anticlimax. Also some of the greenscreen work seemed a bit iffy to me, the outlines of the hair espescially stuck out like a sore thumb to me and I know they can do better than that.
Another minor quibble I have is that it was obvious that only one Judoon head was made to save money and all the other judoon were just clad with helmets. All it would have taken would be one or two split screen shots where we saw more than one of the rhino headed beasties.
But aside from that I think the series got off to a brilliant start, much better than the introduction of Rose.
6/10
Well like Netty, I think I too like Martha more than Rose. I was never really bothered about her fate at the end of S2, because in all honesty she never bothered me.
Anyway, what was a great episode was marred for me by a couple of things. First of all, despite the wonderful Anne Reid as the villainous plasmavore (Netty knew I would like her) I was slighty disappointed with her downfall and couldn't help but feel it was a slight anticlimax. Also some of the greenscreen work seemed a bit iffy to me, the outlines of the hair espescially stuck out like a sore thumb to me and I know they can do better than that.
Another minor quibble I have is that it was obvious that only one Judoon head was made to save money and all the other judoon were just clad with helmets. All it would have taken would be one or two split screen shots where we saw more than one of the rhino headed beasties.
But aside from that I think the series got off to a brilliant start, much better than the introduction of Rose.
6/10
The Shakespeare Code
When the only complaint about something is that there was just too much packed in, you know that you're onto a winner. And this was a winner.
I was expecting much from Gareth Roberts, who wrote some of the best Doctor Who Novels (his 4th Doctor, Romana II and K9 novels are legendary in fan circles - you can read one here on the BBC Doctor Who site), and I wasn't disappointed. I'm breathless after watching it, and convinced I've only taken in about 1/3rd of all the jokes and dialogue, from Shakespeare references, to Who references (I like how Sycorax was mentioned, and Shakespeare made note of the name, because the Christmas Invasion aliens were named after a Shakespearian character); from olde English jokes to pop-culture references including mentions of the quality of sequels, Harry Potter/JK Rowling and Back to the Future. Even Love's Labours Won ("the Lost Play") is I expect is nothing but a joke. Gareth even makes Queen Elisabeth's grand arrival into a joke at the end. Perfect; absolutely perfect.
Dean Lennox Kelley (of Shameless fame) was excellent, and I also liked the young witch. The presentation of Elizabethan England was faultless. And for all Harry Potter fans, JK Rowling, along with Shakespeare, sort of saves the Earth. That's got to be worth an extra point.
10/10
Next Week: Gridlock (Football permitting)
When the only complaint about something is that there was just too much packed in, you know that you're onto a winner. And this was a winner.
I was expecting much from Gareth Roberts, who wrote some of the best Doctor Who Novels (his 4th Doctor, Romana II and K9 novels are legendary in fan circles - you can read one here on the BBC Doctor Who site), and I wasn't disappointed. I'm breathless after watching it, and convinced I've only taken in about 1/3rd of all the jokes and dialogue, from Shakespeare references, to Who references (I like how Sycorax was mentioned, and Shakespeare made note of the name, because the Christmas Invasion aliens were named after a Shakespearian character); from olde English jokes to pop-culture references including mentions of the quality of sequels, Harry Potter/JK Rowling and Back to the Future. Even Love's Labours Won ("the Lost Play") is I expect is nothing but a joke. Gareth even makes Queen Elisabeth's grand arrival into a joke at the end. Perfect; absolutely perfect.
Dean Lennox Kelley (of Shameless fame) was excellent, and I also liked the young witch. The presentation of Elizabethan England was faultless. And for all Harry Potter fans, JK Rowling, along with Shakespeare, sort of saves the Earth. That's got to be worth an extra point.
10/10
Next Week: Gridlock (Football permitting)
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Well I'll throw in my tuppence of The Shakespeare Code
Well Netty's compliments are echoed by me. Quite possible my favourite episode out of the three series so far. Everything was perfect from the story, to the actors to the witty comedy. Like Netty already mentioned there was so much clever dialogue and witty in jokes you had to keep up.
The playful banter between the Doctor and Shakespeare was wonderful and the whole Back to the Future, Harry Potter references were wonderfully built in, unlike many films/TV shows that jam pop culture references in to thing, they worked so well here. Who would've known JK Rowling would have a hand in banishing witched from Elizabethan England!
I was tempted to take away .1 of a point for Shakespeare being a bit too much of a 'wide boy' at times, and another .1 of a point for some ever so slighty iffy hag make-up, but sod it...
10/10
Oh and forget Rose, that whiner has gone, make way for Martha!
Well Netty's compliments are echoed by me. Quite possible my favourite episode out of the three series so far. Everything was perfect from the story, to the actors to the witty comedy. Like Netty already mentioned there was so much clever dialogue and witty in jokes you had to keep up.
The playful banter between the Doctor and Shakespeare was wonderful and the whole Back to the Future, Harry Potter references were wonderfully built in, unlike many films/TV shows that jam pop culture references in to thing, they worked so well here. Who would've known JK Rowling would have a hand in banishing witched from Elizabethan England!
I was tempted to take away .1 of a point for Shakespeare being a bit too much of a 'wide boy' at times, and another .1 of a point for some ever so slighty iffy hag make-up, but sod it...
10/10
Oh and forget Rose, that whiner has gone, make way for Martha!
Yay! The football finished on time, so we got our weekly Dr Who fix.
Gridlock
You know, this shouldn't have worked. I'm sure on paper it sounded absolutely preposterous. But it did. And it worked so well. I loved it.
I was worried about this episode, thinking it would almost be a filler episode – it's was heavily trailed to the fan community as being a "mythology" episode – a return to the year 5 billion from End of the World and New Earth, the end of the Face of Boe and his important secret. But Russell's actually written a very good episode almost in spite of all this. True, it’s a little light on action, but once again the dialogue sparkles (and not necessarily just the humour) and for a second week in a row I cannot find fault with any of the guest casting. Most of the guest cast may have been playing an eccentric bunch, but they could also deliver the emotional lines when needed.
And that's what Gridlock needed. It was a high-concept idea, but telling several smaller stories. The story of the traffic jam, of the Doctor and Martha, of The Face of Boe's sacrifice and also the stories of several of the motorway's drivers and passengers.
And the long trailed prophecy about the Face of Boe's death did come true. He spoke his secret and the sky did split asunder with the sound of thunder. Just not in the way most people (myself included) expected. This ending, along with the Doctor's talk with Martha I found quite moving.
And yes, this episode features monsters last seen in 1966!
9/10
Next time: Daleks In Manhatten
Gridlock
You know, this shouldn't have worked. I'm sure on paper it sounded absolutely preposterous. But it did. And it worked so well. I loved it.
I was worried about this episode, thinking it would almost be a filler episode – it's was heavily trailed to the fan community as being a "mythology" episode – a return to the year 5 billion from End of the World and New Earth, the end of the Face of Boe and his important secret. But Russell's actually written a very good episode almost in spite of all this. True, it’s a little light on action, but once again the dialogue sparkles (and not necessarily just the humour) and for a second week in a row I cannot find fault with any of the guest casting. Most of the guest cast may have been playing an eccentric bunch, but they could also deliver the emotional lines when needed.
And that's what Gridlock needed. It was a high-concept idea, but telling several smaller stories. The story of the traffic jam, of the Doctor and Martha, of The Face of Boe's sacrifice and also the stories of several of the motorway's drivers and passengers.
And the long trailed prophecy about the Face of Boe's death did come true. He spoke his secret and the sky did split asunder with the sound of thunder. Just not in the way most people (myself included) expected. This ending, along with the Doctor's talk with Martha I found quite moving.
And yes, this episode features monsters last seen in 1966!
9/10
Next time: Daleks In Manhatten
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Gridlock
Well I loved this week's episode, not quite as much as last week's episode, but almost as much.
This week's episode was not that action heavy, but had a lot of emotion and dialogue in it. I wasn't sure what this episode would be like from the previews, but it wasn't this. It was fast-paces, exciting and I'm sure no doubt a lot of the characters whose lives we found out about revealed things which probably are in jokes or set-ups which went waaaay over my head. But in the details of character development it is probably the best so far of the three series.
The story was a corker too, the idea of the traffic problems of New New York. At first I was struggling to believe some of the stuff, like taking 5 years to travel 10 miles, thinking that ever going slowly it wouldn't take that long, but everything began to fall into place and all qualms dropped away.
One issue I did have though is with the complete lack of American accents in the episode. Set in New New York and we had, British, Irish, Scottish even some Asian accents and none of the characters we met had an American accent. That was the only major issue I had with an otherwise flawless episode.
I know I've said this already, but I am really loving Martha soooooooo much more than Rose!
9/10
Well I loved this week's episode, not quite as much as last week's episode, but almost as much.
This week's episode was not that action heavy, but had a lot of emotion and dialogue in it. I wasn't sure what this episode would be like from the previews, but it wasn't this. It was fast-paces, exciting and I'm sure no doubt a lot of the characters whose lives we found out about revealed things which probably are in jokes or set-ups which went waaaay over my head. But in the details of character development it is probably the best so far of the three series.
The story was a corker too, the idea of the traffic problems of New New York. At first I was struggling to believe some of the stuff, like taking 5 years to travel 10 miles, thinking that ever going slowly it wouldn't take that long, but everything began to fall into place and all qualms dropped away.
One issue I did have though is with the complete lack of American accents in the episode. Set in New New York and we had, British, Irish, Scottish even some Asian accents and none of the characters we met had an American accent. That was the only major issue I had with an otherwise flawless episode.
I know I've said this already, but I am really loving Martha soooooooo much more than Rose!
9/10
Well:
If the Master is back, he's not technically a Time-Lord. He's used up all his regenerations back in the old series. He exists now by stealing the bodies of others (Last seen in the Paul McGann movie where after stealing a human body, he wanted to steal the Doctor's remaining regenerations). So he comes from Gallifrey, but doesn't have a Time-Lord's body anymore. So both could be right - The Doctor is still the Last of the Time-Lords, but The Master has the same origin planet.
If the Master is back, he's not technically a Time-Lord. He's used up all his regenerations back in the old series. He exists now by stealing the bodies of others (Last seen in the Paul McGann movie where after stealing a human body, he wanted to steal the Doctor's remaining regenerations). So he comes from Gallifrey, but doesn't have a Time-Lord's body anymore. So both could be right - The Doctor is still the Last of the Time-Lords, but The Master has the same origin planet.
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Season #3
Any mention or hint of The Master returning to the program in the remaining episodes? I am intrigued as to how this character would be presentated by Russell Davies verses the "classic" programs of the past. Or was that the future???? So hard to tell, when you time travel. 

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It will air this summer, starting in...July I think. But CBC will begin airing it in June.bradhig wrote:Anyone know if season 3 will air on the Scifi Channel?
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Re: Season #3
There's no proof anywhere that the Master is coming back, but it has been reported in UK Newspapers that John Simm is playing the Master and Mister Saxon (so is Mr Saxon the Master? or does he become possessed by the Master? Or is it all a bluff?). Note, Mister Saxon is an anagram of "Master No. Six" - and if you discount Gorden Tipple from the Paul McGann TV movie who had no dialogue and you couldn't even see his face properly, then John Simm would be the 6th actor to play the part.Prince Charming 12 wrote:Any mention or hint of The Master returning to the program in the remaining episodes? I am intrigued as to how this character would be presentated by Russell Davies verses the "classic" programs of the past. Or was that the future???? So hard to tell, when you time travel.
The strongest hint on the TV series that we have seen is the Face Of Boe finally told The Doctor his secret last week, before dying. He said "You are not alone", probably meaning that the Doctor is not the Last of the Time Lords as he thinks he is.
This Series 3 trailer has a quick shot of John Simm as Mr Saxon. He's the one after Captain Jack, with a sinister smile outside the UK Houses of Parliment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCiTCst_0JY
Oh, and I've just read a humdinger of a spoiler for Evolution of the Daleks on the BBC's press release site. Evolution is right. You'll never see Dalek Sec in the same light again!
Update: Now with Radio Times cover. Note: This cover is a major spoiler. Only click if you must see it.
http://www.gallifreyone.com/picview.php ... 007-04.jpg
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Daleks in Manhattan
Well, I suppose us British have finally got our revenge on crappy British accents in Hollywood productions from Bert in Mary Poppins to Keanu in Dracula. Yes, we have a British production with crappy American accents (although I'll probably be proved wrong and be told all the actors were genuine Americans and those were genuine American accents!)
It's rather a strange episode. The production team seems to have written themselves into a corner with the whole Time-War thing, and as a result of this (and the conclusion to Doomsday) there only being four daleks left in the whole of the universe throughout the time-space continuum. So I don't really see how this story can end… it would have been better if the Cult were trying to free the daleks trapped in the void then... well, then genetically engineering new daleks.
I'm getting rather fed up with this current obsession with human daleks. We’ve had it on TV already (Parting of the Ways), in some Big Finish audio plays (Blood of the Daleks being the latest, but also in Terra Firma) Frankly I just don't see the point. If you want to do a story about humans being converted to something else, do a Cybermen story, or if you want something more organic, do a Krynoid story or even invent something new! Daleks should be daleks.
It's nice that this two-parter reminds people that daleks are not robots, but living creatures inside tank-like metal shells. The revelation of dalek Sec's true dalek form when his casing opened was done very well I thought. I'm not so impressed with the emergence of the humanised dalek Sec though.
I think Sec will remain as he is at the end of this episode. The programme has sort of built him up as a villain (this is why I suspect the cult members were given names) and having a humanoid dalek in the future will lead to more naturalistic and flowing dialogue with the Doctor – that's basically why Davros was invented, to add more emotion and humanity to the frankly boring dalek speech.
Also I must add, much as I loved the pig-man in Aliens of London, he was basically supposed to be an unbelievable creation in the actual narrative of the story, so it worked (and he was so cute too), I think the pig-men serving as slaves of the daleks are a mistake in this story. They do look a little more menacing than I expected from the trailers (its all in the eyes) but they still, ultimately, present an aspect of the production many people will dismiss as laughable. Which is a shame, because some of the dialogue between the Doctor and Soloman or the daleks and Mr Diagoras especially touched on big philosophical issues.
I'm interested to see how this plays out… will there be more than four daleks by the story's end?
7/10
Well, I suppose us British have finally got our revenge on crappy British accents in Hollywood productions from Bert in Mary Poppins to Keanu in Dracula. Yes, we have a British production with crappy American accents (although I'll probably be proved wrong and be told all the actors were genuine Americans and those were genuine American accents!)
It's rather a strange episode. The production team seems to have written themselves into a corner with the whole Time-War thing, and as a result of this (and the conclusion to Doomsday) there only being four daleks left in the whole of the universe throughout the time-space continuum. So I don't really see how this story can end… it would have been better if the Cult were trying to free the daleks trapped in the void then... well, then genetically engineering new daleks.
I'm getting rather fed up with this current obsession with human daleks. We’ve had it on TV already (Parting of the Ways), in some Big Finish audio plays (Blood of the Daleks being the latest, but also in Terra Firma) Frankly I just don't see the point. If you want to do a story about humans being converted to something else, do a Cybermen story, or if you want something more organic, do a Krynoid story or even invent something new! Daleks should be daleks.
It's nice that this two-parter reminds people that daleks are not robots, but living creatures inside tank-like metal shells. The revelation of dalek Sec's true dalek form when his casing opened was done very well I thought. I'm not so impressed with the emergence of the humanised dalek Sec though.
I think Sec will remain as he is at the end of this episode. The programme has sort of built him up as a villain (this is why I suspect the cult members were given names) and having a humanoid dalek in the future will lead to more naturalistic and flowing dialogue with the Doctor – that's basically why Davros was invented, to add more emotion and humanity to the frankly boring dalek speech.
Also I must add, much as I loved the pig-man in Aliens of London, he was basically supposed to be an unbelievable creation in the actual narrative of the story, so it worked (and he was so cute too), I think the pig-men serving as slaves of the daleks are a mistake in this story. They do look a little more menacing than I expected from the trailers (its all in the eyes) but they still, ultimately, present an aspect of the production many people will dismiss as laughable. Which is a shame, because some of the dialogue between the Doctor and Soloman or the daleks and Mr Diagoras especially touched on big philosophical issues.
I'm interested to see how this plays out… will there be more than four daleks by the story's end?
7/10
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The only actor I know of in this episode that's a genuine American is Ryan Carnes (who plays someone named either "Laszlo" or "Elliot", as wiki gives one name, but imdb gives the other).2099net wrote:Well, I suppose us British have finally got our revenge on crappy British accents in Hollywood productions from Bert in Mary Poppins to Keanu in Dracula. Yes, we have a British production with crappy American accents (although I'll probably be proved wrong and be told all the actors were genuine Americans and those were genuine American accents!)
And didn't people sometimes criticize Nicola Bryant's American accent (that it'd slip back to British) when she was Perpugilliam "Peri" Brown?
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Re: Season #3
Thanks for the advanced teaser! I don't want to know anymore so I can enjoy another season, when it airs over here later this year.2099net wrote:He said "You are not alone", probably meaning that the Doctor is not the Last of the Time Lords as he thinks he is.
After watching Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways two years ago, my guess was that Gallifrey was not completely destroyed. If the Daleks could survive this "time war", then so did the Timelords. Obviously the events of this war have yet to be revealed so further specluation is not warranted at this time, but I think they will always be the rule of law in time and space.
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Evolution of the Daleks
Well, what can I say? This was a huge disappointment. By far the worst episode of this year, which so far has been high above 2005 and 2006 in terms of quality and diversity. Considering this was a Dalek story too, the disappointment is twice as large.
Remember how Dalek in 2005 made an effort to explain how dangerous a Dalek was? And how much the Doctor feared them? Or how The Parting of the Ways overwhelmed the audience by presenting thousands of Daleks?
By Evolution of the Daleks, all menace has all but evaporated. Here, we have only 4 Daleks (well, three I suppose) who spend all their time either chatting between themselves or ranting to the humans. The first part of this story had no "exterminations", and the death count of the second count was pretty low too, including several times where they could have "exterminated" the Doctor, but didn't (for the convenience of the story).
Talking of the story, this came off as a second rate combination of Genesis of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks – both of which presented the issues raised here in a much more logical and entertaining story (yes, even the static electricity and mirror powered time-travel nonsense of Evil of the Daleks was a better script and more logical, because the Daleks in that acted with menace and cunning throughout).
And then to top it all off they finish the story with there being only one Dalek left! One Dalek in the whole of time and space! I actually thought Dalek Caan would learn something or do something, but the ending seemed like a massive cop-out. "Emergency Temporal Shifts" are the narrative equivilents to "With one bound he was free!" I know Doctor Who is basically a comic strip on screen, and the Daleks will never be destroyed (I'm sure some techno-babble solution for example will easily free those trapped in the void if needed) but it seems like the production team have painted themselves into a narrower corner than they were in at the start of this story!
<strike>6/10</strike> No sod that, too many inconsistencies and narrative issues, so sadly 5/10
Next: The Lazarus Experiment
Well, what can I say? This was a huge disappointment. By far the worst episode of this year, which so far has been high above 2005 and 2006 in terms of quality and diversity. Considering this was a Dalek story too, the disappointment is twice as large.
Remember how Dalek in 2005 made an effort to explain how dangerous a Dalek was? And how much the Doctor feared them? Or how The Parting of the Ways overwhelmed the audience by presenting thousands of Daleks?
By Evolution of the Daleks, all menace has all but evaporated. Here, we have only 4 Daleks (well, three I suppose) who spend all their time either chatting between themselves or ranting to the humans. The first part of this story had no "exterminations", and the death count of the second count was pretty low too, including several times where they could have "exterminated" the Doctor, but didn't (for the convenience of the story).
Talking of the story, this came off as a second rate combination of Genesis of the Daleks and Evil of the Daleks – both of which presented the issues raised here in a much more logical and entertaining story (yes, even the static electricity and mirror powered time-travel nonsense of Evil of the Daleks was a better script and more logical, because the Daleks in that acted with menace and cunning throughout).
And then to top it all off they finish the story with there being only one Dalek left! One Dalek in the whole of time and space! I actually thought Dalek Caan would learn something or do something, but the ending seemed like a massive cop-out. "Emergency Temporal Shifts" are the narrative equivilents to "With one bound he was free!" I know Doctor Who is basically a comic strip on screen, and the Daleks will never be destroyed (I'm sure some techno-babble solution for example will easily free those trapped in the void if needed) but it seems like the production team have painted themselves into a narrower corner than they were in at the start of this story!
<strike>6/10</strike> No sod that, too many inconsistencies and narrative issues, so sadly 5/10
Next: The Lazarus Experiment
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The Lazarus Experiment
Mark Gatiss! Mark Gatiss, one of the Doctor Who superfans! After writing 2 of the new series episodes, he finally gets to star in one. And he was good. I'm always surprised Mark can play bad guys so well, he's so nice in real life (and yes, I have met him in real-life - briefly - at a Doctor Who convention 10 years or so back when he was just writing Doctor Who novels and the League of Gentlemen et al had yet to be created).
I enjoyed this episode just for Gatiss' apperance. The fact that he had some good lines (I enjoyed him being bitchy to Lady Thaw enormously).
I must admit the story was slight. That said, considering the story could easily have been just a runaround, the script did offer a little more. The nature of extended life was discussed, as was the nature of being human. My favourite bit of dialogue being when then the Doctor challanges Lazarus about the lives he has taken. Lazarus responds that they are unimportant, because he has made history. And the Doctor replies "And how do you know they wouldn't? History is more than a formula or equation." And Lazarus did get some character development at the end, and after Martha being a little bland and undefined in the Dalek two parter, I was pleased to see her back to being a proper character rather than a generic cypher.
I was also interested in Mr Saxon's behind the scenes manipulation of Martha's mother as he sows seeds of fear and doubt in her about the Doctor.
Finally the CGI creature was superb, and seen in a surprising number of shots, showing the show still has a mandate to push itself creatively.
Well, after the disappointment of Evolution of the Daleks, I feel the series has found its feet again and is back up and showing series 3 to be the best series date.
9/10
Next: <strike>42</strike> The Eurovision Song Contest
Mark Gatiss! Mark Gatiss, one of the Doctor Who superfans! After writing 2 of the new series episodes, he finally gets to star in one. And he was good. I'm always surprised Mark can play bad guys so well, he's so nice in real life (and yes, I have met him in real-life - briefly - at a Doctor Who convention 10 years or so back when he was just writing Doctor Who novels and the League of Gentlemen et al had yet to be created).
I enjoyed this episode just for Gatiss' apperance. The fact that he had some good lines (I enjoyed him being bitchy to Lady Thaw enormously).
I must admit the story was slight. That said, considering the story could easily have been just a runaround, the script did offer a little more. The nature of extended life was discussed, as was the nature of being human. My favourite bit of dialogue being when then the Doctor challanges Lazarus about the lives he has taken. Lazarus responds that they are unimportant, because he has made history. And the Doctor replies "And how do you know they wouldn't? History is more than a formula or equation." And Lazarus did get some character development at the end, and after Martha being a little bland and undefined in the Dalek two parter, I was pleased to see her back to being a proper character rather than a generic cypher.
I was also interested in Mr Saxon's behind the scenes manipulation of Martha's mother as he sows seeds of fear and doubt in her about the Doctor.
Finally the CGI creature was superb, and seen in a surprising number of shots, showing the show still has a mandate to push itself creatively.
Well, after the disappointment of Evolution of the Daleks, I feel the series has found its feet again and is back up and showing series 3 to be the best series date.
9/10
Next: <strike>42</strike> The Eurovision Song Contest
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