Frozen II

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:47 pm

Clindor wrote:When you are a creator, an artist, you can always make a character evolve with the franchise like they apparently did with each of the main characters in Frozen II. If they did not give the same treatment with Hans, it’s because they TOOK that decision.

Yes, it's definetely their choice. They could have redeemed him, if they wanted to. Frozen 2 already has done some mild retconning by making Elsa feeling out of place in Arendelle in order to justify their plot. From what I've seen online, most Hans fans don't necessarily want him redeemed. They just want him to have a meatier role even as a villain and have his character explored. Which is understandable considering Hans is not really a character but a plot device. There's a lot of untapped potential there.

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:58 pm

They didn't want to though, apparently? He's a non-essential character after the conclusion of the first film's plot, as much as the Duke of Weselton. I'd more sad there doesn't seem to be much of any involvement for Marshmallow. That character was so cute.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:13 pm

It's interesting though that back in 2014 Santino Fontana said the writers told him they wanted to redeem Hans in the sequel.

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 5:30 pm

I wonder why they would’ve backtracked, unless there was meddling from executives? No doubt Frozen 2 has been handled carefully and with as much input as possible considering how lucrative a franchise for Disney it would be.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:21 pm

JeanGreyForever · Post by **JeanGreyForever** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:02 am

Clindor wrote:
farerb wrote:If they had made him a much more complex character then maybe, but they really wanted that twist so they turned him into a sociopath. Don't think I'll be able to forgive someone who just left me to die and aiming to kill a member of my family just to be a king consort with no queen or heir so basically nothing.
They could have used one of the elements from the original fairy tale with the tiny pieces of the mirror turning people evil if they touch them and filling them with dark intentions. Hans could have been an object in a more important plan. The whole thing linked to a prophecy regarding this dark magic and also giving a more complex and detailed backstory around Hans... (or I don’t know: just anything else for Hans!)
When you are a creator, an artist, you can always make a character evolve with the franchise like they apparently did with each of the main characters in Frozen II. If they did not give the same treatment with Hans, it’s because they TOOK that decision.

(And chose to treat the fans the same way.)

The ironic thing is that they tried to claim that Hans was a metaphor for the mirror as if this somehow made Frozen more of a direct adaptation of The Snow Queen lol. Even if that was true, all that meant is that Han was literally reduced to an object which isn't very deep writing imo. I did not expect this treatment for Hans after Santino said that Frozen 2 would redeem him. Even if he does end up popping up at the end of the film, it sounds like it's to tease him as the main villain for Frozen 3 rather than any possible redemption arc.

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:42 am

Spoilers!!!

https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle ... 00606.html

Farerb · Post by **Farerb** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:54 am

okay but if their mother had had powers, wouldn't she have known what to do with Elsa's powers? Guiding her through it? This just sounds like a retcon.

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:12 am

^Maybe mom's were different/less extreme, so they didn't know how to deal with Elsa's? But that is a good point...

The cast on Jimmy Kimmel:
https://youtu.be/JpdkOeEpELc

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 10:41 am

Yeah, I’d seen them on Jimmy Kimmel when it aired. It was a very cute interview. When they were showing their drawings, I thought how funny it was that they seemed to go backwards in quality (Bell’s being the best and then Gad’s the worst).

D82 · Post by **D82** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:32 pm

New clip with Anna and Olaf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42qAmx0maUU

Sotiris wrote:A snippet from "Some Things Never Change" has been leaked. The song's OK, I guess. It's kind of generic but pleasant enough.
https://www.instagram.com/p/B4kaBB6F_vV/

Thanks for sharing! Yes, it's nice but not too special either. This song and the reprise of "All Is Found" are exactly as you described, Clindor.

I'm especially curious about Kristoff's song now after several people praised it in the first reactions.

Sotiris wrote:
D82 wrote:And Spanish and Korean covers of the end credits version of "Into the Unknown".
I can't say I like either of them. I thought it would sound better with a female vocalist but it doesn't. It's the arrangement that's the problem. It really doesn't suit the song. It goes against the melody and the way it's structured.

For me the problem are the male vocalists. It seems they're having a hard time reaching the high notes or singing in that key. The female ones seem more comfortable with it. The Spanish performer himself admitted in an interview that recording the song had been a challenge for him because of that.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:02 pm

blackcauldron85 wrote:Spoilers!!!
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle ... 00606.html

The link doesn't work anymore. What did it say?

D82 wrote:New clip with Anna and Olaf.

"I can't wait until I'm ancient like you so I won't have to worry about important things".

Olaf has become a sass master!

This preoccupation with change though both through song and dialogue is a little too on the nose. Is it still considered foreshadowing when it's so obvious?

D82 wrote:I'm especially curious about Kristoff's song now after several people praised it in the first reactions.

The description of the song has piqued my interest as well.

“Lost in the Woods” is arranged like a yacht rock power ballad (yes, seriously) with his body shown in multiples, dancing across the screen and in a split-screen close-up of his face backlit as he’s singing.

Source: https://www.purewow.com/news/frozen-2-kristoff-song

D82 wrote:For me the problem are the male vocalists. It seems they're having a hard time reaching the high notes or singing in that key. The female ones seem more comfortable with it. The Spanish performer himself admitted in an interview that recording the song had been a challenge for him because of that.

Sure, the female vocalists sound better than their male counterparts (that's why the Korean rendition is better than the Spanish one) but it doesn't solve the real issue at hand which is the arrangement, in my opinion.

blackcauldron85 · Post by **blackcauldron85** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:38 pm

Sotiris wrote:
blackcauldron85 wrote:Spoilers!!!
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/lifestyle ... 00606.html
The link doesn't work anymore. What did it say?

Their mom saved their dad and the mom had powers...

Sorry, guess I should have quoted it. Luckily this site copied the article:

https://www.purewow.com/news/frozen-2-parents-story

...to find the origin of the voices that are calling to Elsa, which seem to be coming from the direction of the Enchanted Forest. The girls remember the place from a story their father told them—as a boy, he'd visited with the girls' grandfather. There, the two helped the townspeople from Arendelle build a dam for the Northuldra tribe, before a fight broke out between the two groups, leaving their father, the young prince, injured. The place has been cut off from outsiders behind mists ever since...and the girls' father never knew who rescued him from the battle before being seriously harmed or trapped behind the mists...their grandfather surprise-attacked the Northuldra tribe, leading to the elements' angry attack on Arandelle all these years later. And the mysterious good samaritan who rescued their father from the ensuing battle? It was none other than their mother, who at the time was no more than a girl, and was revered by the Northuldra tribe as having magic powers. So, that's where Elsa's special powers came from.

And, most poignantly of all, Elsa and Anna discover exactly what their parents were doing on the high seas when they were overtaken by the waves. It turns out the couple was searching for the origin of the magical powers the women shared—which was believed to be found upriver to the north. In the scene's most wrenching moment, Elsa "reads" the water-memory of her parents' soggy shipwrecked vessel. And the result is a life-sized frozen statue of her father shielding her mother from the waves as they smashed through the hull to engulf them both.

Gah! Elsa feels guilt, Anna gives her a sisterly pep talk and the emotional complexity of Frozen 2 can't help but melt our hearts...

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:10 pm

^Thanks! Did young Iduna really yield magic? From the footage we've seen it seemed she simply was friends with the spirits. Does this mean she was the fifth spirit, the bridge, before Elsa? Did she give up her magic and role as a spirit to save Agnarr's life?

unprincess · Post by **unprincess** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 5:29 pm

Sotiris wrote:
Is Elsa describing Hans as an "unredeemable monster" a jab by the filmmakers at Hans fans who wanted him to be redeemed in the sequel? She could have just said monster but the unredeemable addition seems overkill which makes me wonder.

I dont see any other way to interpret that scene. What gets me is that she didnt have the balls to post how she feels about the character and his fans on her twitter account which she knows is visited by many Hans fans who retweet her posts and have asked her about Hans status in the sequels. Doing it this way seems kinda tacky to me.

JeanGreyForever wrote: The blatant hypocrisy here astounds me. Jennifer Lee thinks Hans, a fictional character, is an irredeemable monster but John Lasseter is just misunderstood and a real ally to women just because he never did anything specifically to her. Give me a break.

I caught that too and thought it was really strange. I was expecting her to go off on Lasseter, but I guess she doesn't want to be seen as "unprofessional."

Disney's Divinity wrote:They didn't want to though, apparently? He's a non-essential character after the conclusion of the first film's plot, as much as the Duke of Weselton.

Total waste. A plot involving Hans and the Duke joining forces to invade Arendelle using sorcery they've obtained would've made a fantastic almost Game of Thrones-ish story line.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:06 pm

Olaf spoilers.

There’s also a scene where Elsa is frozen when she falls into a hole that she can’t get out of, and her magic stops, causing Olaf to die. (Don’t worry, it’s not a permanent thing.) All this happens while Anna is separated from Elsa, prompting some feelings of abandonment and an anthemic power ballad about “doing the next right thing.” Bottom line: There’s a pretty harrowing ten minutes when our heroes are either dead or in peril.

Source: https://www.purewow.com/news/is-frozen- ... n-frozen-1

Disney's Divinity · Post by **Disney's Divinity** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 6:41 pm

unprincess wrote: Total waste. A plot involving Hans and the Duke joining forces to invade Arendelle using sorcery they've obtained would've made a fantastic almost Game of Thrones-ish story line.

I agree with the first part of your post. I wish she / they would have more of a spine when dealing with the subject of Hans, but Disney desperately doesn't want to anger anyone.

Musical Master · Post by **Musical Master** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 7:14 pm

After hearing the sample, "Some Things Never Change" sounds pretty cute and charming and I'm so curious about how "Lost in the Woods" sounds like a "yacht rock power ballad" as described. Then I saw a tweet from a person who saw the film who said "Into The Unknown is not THE SONG. Show Yourself = Let it Go!"; talk about PEAK curiosity!

disneyprincess11 · Post by **disneyprincess11** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:14 pm

Sotiris wrote:Olaf spoilers.

There’s also a scene where Elsa is frozen when she falls into a hole that she can’t get out of, and her magic stops, causing Olaf to die. (Don’t worry, it’s not a permanent thing.) All this happens while Anna is separated from Elsa, prompting some feelings of abandonment and an anthemic power ballad about “doing the next right thing.” Bottom line: There’s a pretty harrowing ten minutes when our heroes are either dead or in peril.
Source: https://www.purewow.com/news/is-frozen- ... n-frozen-1

You should have said Elsa spoilers too. The spoiler alert wasn't just Olaf, which I had already known.

Sotiris · Post by **Sotiris** » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:25 pm

Iduna's nickname for Elsa is "little snow". That's too similar to Snow White. It should have been "little snowflake". It has a better ring to it.

Source: https://the-awkward-feistypants.tumblr. ... u-guys-get

Elsa and Anna's family (and friends) tree.

Source: https://99884321.tumblr.com/post/189029 ... -arendelle

The Blu-ray/DVD is already available to pre-order in some countries. Here's the mock-up.

Source: https://hereisisa.tumblr.com/post/18885 ... eorder-the

Japan is getting a collector's CD boxset that includes the songs in both English and Japanese, instrumental/karaoke versions of the songs, the score, cut songs, and lithographs.

Source: https://twitter.com/disneymusicjp/statu ... 631531009/

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