The Princess and the Frog Discussion - Part III

[Siren]

Thinking about Dr. Facilier makes me itch for a stage Musical of the film.

I mean, all those Voodoo scenes-and some better songs-would make for an awesome production. Of course, there's the animal issue.

I think they can handle the animal bit. The real issue would be having Tiana and Naveen become frogs, and the Lawrence disguised as Naveen bit.

If I remember correctly, the Doctor did pull out a chicken at one point. I think that is the animal issue of VooDoo he was speaking of. I could be wrong, but I don't know of any "real" VooDoo spells that change people into animals. Into the walking dead/zombies, yes, but not animals. But VooDoo and its daughter religion, Santeria, are well know for animal sacrifice, most notably, chickens and goats.

[pap64]

I believe Andrew was talking about portraying the animal characters on stage, Siren.

But of course I could be wrong...

[Siren]

Ok, I see that you mean, nevermind

[Marky_198]

This post contains spoilers about The Pincess and the Frog

.

I had almost the exact same thoughts about the film.

Well written.

[BwayJ]

I think they can handle the animal bit. The real issue would be having Tiana and Naveen become frogs, and the Lawrence disguised as Naveen bit.

If they pulled off The Lion King and the Beast's transformation live on stage, they can do a great Princess and the Frog stage show .

Here's how I think they could do it:
- For the animal characters, they could either wear outfits designed to look like animals (a la Little Mermaid) or wear puppets as outfits (a la Lion King).

- For Fake Naveen, it could be played by the same actor that plays real Naveen, and then create special effects for the transformation scenes.

I was thinking that they could have Ray be a puppet and have Louis be played by a really tall actor.

[Disney's Divinity]

Thanks for your explanation of Dr. Facilier's plan. I had gathered all that from the film as well, but just money or control over one city seemed so small a goal to me, for a guy who has 'friends on the other side'. By the way, I read in the comments-section of IMDb that quite a few people who were Christians were offended by the film, because it deals with voodoo. What do you all think about that?

I foretold it about a year or so before the movie came out. Facilier isn't the real problem for people like that (and the majority are Christians who want everything to represent them unfortunately. ); but having a "good" character like Mama Odie be portrayed as someone worth taking advice from or emulating, well... It's the same problem a lot of people had with Rafiki in TLK, Atlantis and Brother Bear. The witchcraft in TLM and other movies is more easily overlooked because the movie shows it in the pov that it's evil and only evil people do it (and that it's a mistake to use), but if there'd been a positive witch character they'd have complained the same way. In fact, I do here people complain about the fairies in Pinocchio, Cinderella, and Sleeping Beauty. It's quite sad.

[ajmrowland]

I think they can handle the animal bit. The real issue would be having Tiana and Naveen become frogs, and the Lawrence disguised as Naveen bit.

If they pulled off The Lion King and the Beast's transformation live on stage, they can do a great Princess and the Frog stage show .

Here's how I think they could do it:
- For the animal characters, they could either wear outfits designed to look like animals (a la Little Mermaid) or wear puppets as outfits (a la Lion King).

- For Fake Naveen, it could be played by the same actor that plays real Naveen, and then create special effects for the transformation scenes.

And if that doesn't work out, they could always hire Twins.

And the Frogs I consider part of the animal bit, becaue Ray and Louis could prove just as much of a problem(well, Ray could be this generation's Tinkerbell with a voice, but that's it).

[KubrickFan]

Thanks for your explanation of Dr. Facilier's plan. I had gathered all that from the film as well, but just money or control over one city seemed so small a goal to me, for a guy who has 'friends on the other side'. By the way, I read in the comments-section of IMDb that quite a few people who were Christians were offended by the film, because it deals with voodoo. What do you all think about that?

I foretold it about a year or so before the movie came out. Facilier isn't the real problem for people like that (and the majority are Christians who want everything to represent them unfortunately. ); but having a "good" character like Mama Odie be portrayed as someone worth taking advice from or emulating, well... It's the same problem a lot of people had with Rafiki in TLK, Atlantis and Brother Bear. The witchcraft in TLM and other movies is more easily overlooked because the movie shows it in the pov that it's evil and only evil people do it (and that it's a mistake to use), but if there'd been a positive witch character they'd have complained the same way. In fact, I do here people complain about the fairies in Pinocchio, Cinderella, and Sleeping Beauty. It's quite sad.

I don't get the Little Mermaid reference. Surely, Trition uses it at the end of the movie to let his daughter stay with Eric? That's a good thing, done by a decent merman. And I don't hear complaints about that one at all.
Frankly, I think the voodoo complaints are completely ridiculous. When someone reverts to christianity (funny, my spelling checker says you have to use a capital c on the word) you don't hear complaints. Same with judaism.

[Goliath]

I was familiar with the film's history (story-wise); I'm not new on UD.

Thanks anyway, and I completely agree Disney should have sticked to its guns. But it's Disney, known for its family productions, so they are being measured by different/higher standards than other filmmakers.

[Siren]

Its all in the LABEL of the magic.

What Ursula did was witchcraft, because she is the Sea WITCH.

What Triton did was simply...magic.

There are several "types" of magic.

Magic = Illusions...David Copperfield, pulling a rabbit out of a hat, etc.
Magic = Emotion....It feels "magical". There are times that are just so special. A shooting star, visiting a new place, Disney Magic, etc.
Magic/Magick/Majik/etc: White/black powers in a spiritual sense. A higher power sharing their energy with their believers. Frankly, a miracle is not very different than a successful magic spell. Same principle, different name. What Triton, the Blue Fairy, Ursula, Mama Odie, etc have is this. They have a power blessed upon them by either birth or a gift. Be it earned or given. Triton is powerless without his Triton. Where as Ursula can do anything with a few incantations and ingredients. Good examples of white/black magic in movies....The witches in Wizard of Oz and the Unicorns and Darkness in Legend. The Force and the Dark Side in Star Wars. To quote Last Unicorn, "Two sides of the same magic". And to quote Darkness, "There is no light, without dark" (or something like that). And in both cases, that is true. Not to turn this into a religious debate, but to make a true life point...there wouldn't be Satanism without Christianity. Everything has a good and bad side. Triton, Mama Odie, Glinda, etc chose the good sides.

[Disney's Divinity]

I always thought of the trident as a magical object, like Excalibur. The wielder doesn't do magic; the object is just magical. Ursula, The Evil Queen, and Maleficent do magic and so do the fairies apparently (through their wands). At first a wand--I would say Maleficent's staff is used in the same way as a wand, besides the fact that she is also called a fairy--might seem to be the same as something like the trident, but wands are used (or were thought to have been used) to "direct" their powers. The trident is already magical on its own--Triton wouldn't be "directing" any power through him. A simpler explanation would be that the fairies, Maleficent, Ursula and the Evil Queen have to use Incantations and/or a mixing of objects of some sort. Triton never does this, because the trident would do magic no matter who wields it. The wands/staves/cauldron wouldn't work without their wielders; the trident would. In other words--Triton is not a wizard.

Sorry to veer us off on that. It was related to TP&TF and Mama Odie though.

[disneyboy20022]

Well...I recently have been watching Hecules the tv show on youtube...and after reading the Percy Jackson and the Olympians.....Triton's Father in greeky mythology is/was in mythology the god of the Sea....it was told so I hear that one day Triton would be Poseidon's Succesor.....and Posiedon's Weapon of choice.....would be the same weapon his son Triton has in The Little Mermaid (idk why that sentance sounds so silly but....it does and creepy) A Triton..



Now my theory...in the Disney days before the year Hercules came to work for Disney Poisedeon finally decided to let his son Rule a little 5 mile radius of a city under the sea called Atlantica because the name Atlantis was taken by a guy in the history books called Milo J Thatch...but thats another story for after When Hercules came to work for Disney...and some might say what about Triton and Hercules went in an episode of Hercules own tv show that Disney endorsed? Well I think Poisden temporarily made Triton into a fish type thing because it fits the part more for and Hercules didn't want to believe in Mermaids at that point in the show or time....and of course then Zeus erased Poisden and Trident's minds and made them forget with some of Hades forgetful water...so there would not be a civil war under the sea...Father VS Son of Trident and Poiden because Kronos was already a problem.....they didn't need any other father vs son battles because it would prevent Ariel from existing and it was the only way to to prevent Rosanne Barr from becoming an Animated Pig....instead they agreed a Mad Cow suited her for the role better...

[blackcauldron85]

5-part interview:

The Princess And The Frog’s Supervising Animator Mark Henn: A Career Retrospective
http://animatedviews.com/2009/the-princ ... ospective/


***

http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... watch.html

As of this week (February 10, 2010) the box office track site The Numbers reports Frog's worldwide take as:

U.S. -- $101,011,000

International -- $95,000,000

Worldwide -- $196,011,000

So TPandTF is now close to double its reputed production gross cost.

***

TP&tF opened at #2 in the UK:

The Princess And The Frog Fails To Topple Avatar
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/movies/mov ... 76397.html
(via laughingplace.com)

[Disney Duster]

For the magic discussion, which is one of the things that attracts me to Disney in the first place, Disney magic:

In all Disney films before this one and perhaps Brother Bear, magic was not associated with any religion. I believe the reason magic was bad in the Bible was because it was using other gods, or evil forces, to do something. However, I also realized maybe doing anything supernatural you're not supposed to do goes against God because he's the only one who is or should be able to do these things. But that would also make any children's stories about flying people or talking animals bad simply because people and animals can't normally do that. Soon it goes into anything being made up that people can't normally do being bad.

So anyway, Disney magic was not religious until perhaps Brother Bear but now more so The Princess and the Frog. Voodoo is a religion. Magic is really something that only exists in fairy tales and the stage, and Disney movies. Magick is what Wiccans do. So I think Disney should have stayed out of the religiousness. But you could say they invented their own version of magic which is voodoo but apparently seperate from the religion of voodoo...but I'm still urked about it. In other words when I was little I would pretend I was the fairy godmother or Ursula or something but now I'd never do that for Mama Odie or Facilier.

As for the wands and tridents thing...it is unsure whether Triton is actually a descendent of the god of the sea, Poseidon, and thus the current living god of the sea. Of course this might mean Ariel becomes a human in the mortal sense as well, ala Hercules, or maybe Triton's a god but his offspring aren't necessarily gods because they aren't even part of mythology Greek gods come from.

Anyway, it's unclear of a bunch of things:

Is Triton magical and he uses his powers through the trident? In the tv series, he could call the trident to himself. Ariel was able to use it but she is his descendent. And still, no one could quite work it like him.

Ursula, being a magical witch, could simply use her own powers through the trident as well.

Or, Triton isn't a god or magical, and he simply got the magical trident as part of becoming king.

What I personally think is that the trident is magical on its own, but that Triton is also magical, and he can do more with it than anyone who is not the current ruler of the sea, or a royal family member, could. Let us not forget they were even thinking Ursula might be his sister which would make her royal. But we don't have any official information on any of the theories I mentioned at all!

Also, at least for the fairies, they don't have to use incantations or even wands all the time. The three fairies do seem to do everything with their wands but not incantations all the time. But the fairy godmother can appear and produce her wand out of thin air without the wand itself or incantation. I bet all the fairies from any of the films don't need their wands or incantations, but that they help and are most powerful with them. Ursula can also open a cabinet by just waving her hand over it, showing she doesn't need potions or incantations all the time ether. I would think for all the magical characters, little stuff doesn't need extra help, big things do.

[blackcauldron85]

The Foreign Takings
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/ ... kings.html

"The Princess and the Frog" grossed an animated $11.3 million from 3,643 locations in 39 markets, hoisting its overseas cume past the $100 million mark ($109 million) with the prospect of various holiday playtimes ahead in active territories. ...

[CampbellzSoup]

For something handdrawn in this day and age to make this much money still is incredible no matter how you try to spin it.

With the DVD & Blu Ray sales, plus them milking it for years to come it will be pure bank.

[estefan]

Yeah, Disney needs to take a look at the entire worldwide box-office to see that changing Rapunzel to Tangled is rather un-necessary. But, they always seem to forget that their films always do massively better business in the rest of the world than in North America.

I seriously think Rapunzel will make a killing in Europe. Tangled? Not so much.

[Goliath]

Please stop making excuses for the film's bad reception. $ 100 million dollar is very disappointing for a new Disney film, especially for one that has been that expensive.

[DisneyJedi]

This probably won't mean much, but a little bird told me that the movie's now made $200 million worldwide.

[zackiellovedisney]

This probably won't mean much, but a little bird told me that the movie's now made $200 million worldwide.

Even though I really want to agree with you the movie has made 150 million worldwide.