I honestly would have been more excited if this news came a month ago, before Galavant aired. I mean, I didn't hate Galavant's songs, I just felt really indifferent and somewhat perplexed by some weird and repetitive lyric choices. The best and most memorable song for me was a generic lullaby, so...
I mean, writing for a TV show =/= writing for a movie, but...ugh, Glenn Slater. Menken's scoring work is still up to par, but his song writing is now constantly bogged down by Slater's generic and clumsy attempts to reach Stephen Schwartz or Howard Ashman in quality. The Lopezes, if we're talking about modern Disney song writers, seem to be better lyricists overall judging by their track record, and (unpopular opinion incoming) I'd honestly prefer them over the Menken/Slater combo at this point.
If Menken branches out and gives another lyricist a try for this though that would be great to see. I can't see Slater writing for a Polynesian folktale anyway.
Last edited by Tangled on Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Tangled wrote:I honestly would have been more excited if this news came a month ago, before Galavant aired.
I mean, writing for a TV show =/= writing for a movie, but...ugh, Glenn Slater. Menken's scoring work is still up to par, but his song writing is now constantly bogged down by Slater's generic and clumsy attempts to reach Stephen Schwartz or Howard Ashman in quality. The Lopezes, if we're talking about modern Disney song writers, seem to be better lyricists overall judging by their track record, and (unpopular opinion incoming) I'd honestly prefer them over the Menken/Slater combo at this point.
If Menken branches out and gives another lyricist a try for this though that would be great to see. I can't see Slater writing for a Polynesian folktale anyway.
Hmm.. This is a tough one..
I think The songs should be written by them, and the music can be composed by both them and Alan Menken. And the score to be written by him..
That would be weird...
Bring back Stephen Schwartz? And even then, While Hunchback and Pocahontas are my favorite Disney soundtracks (both songs and score), i don't know what the heck happened with Enchanted...
"In every age, Family is king,
and the bravest journeys, are never taken alone."
-Brave.
I struggle with Glenn Slater's lyrics too... I would be delighted if Alan Menken could work with Stephen Swartz again, or even David Zippel, the Hercules and Mulan composer.
Disney's Divinity wrote:The only Menken soundtrack I'm not keen on is Tangled, but I'm hardly going to judge him there considering the directors clearly were opposed to the film being a musical at all. Besides that, my only disappointments have been a couple of lackluster songs in recent Broadway adaptations (although there have been an equal amount of good additions, imo; "Diamond in the Rough," many for TLM's musical including some that were cut, and new songs for an overseas Hunchback show that have received a lot of praise). I'd still take Menken over the other options we know of, even the Lopezes.
I love Alan Menken's work and I am beyond delighted that he will be the composer on another Clements/Musker movie! Let's hope that Lasseter keeps his hands off this project and that he does not force his own composer onto this movie, like he did on The Princess and the Frog. (Let him plan how to make Cars 5 instead, because at Pixar making an original story always comes first.)
I agree with you Disney's Divinity on the Tangled soundtrack. It had it's moments, but overall it was inferior compared to his other work. But I imagine it must have been hard for him to work on a movie where the directors did not want him to make songs at all. They did not want Menken to play a big part in the story developing and they fought against Menken making the music "to much Broadway" (far from the working condition on the movie Frozen, that is). Menken himself have stated so in interviews, although in a classier and less direct way.
I thought Enchanted had a brilliant soundtrack. The songs was a perfect hommage to classic Disney (Menken?) songs, and the score was beautiful. Also, his recent Broadway and stage musicals have had great sucess (Aladdin, Hunchback etc). So I think Menken still got what it takes to compose movies and make new additions to his classical Disney scores.
I hope Clements/Musker now will give Menken creative freedom on this project. I like the Hercules soundtrack (it has fun and catchy songs), but the gospel style was Clements and Musker's choice and not Menken. Menken wanted a more classic and epic approuch to the music, and I think that would have been better. "I Can Go the Distance" is epic and the score also has some epic moments, so it would have been really interesting to hear what a more classical (and less comedy oriented) score for the movie Hercules would have sounded.
David Zippel, Stephen Schwartz, Glenn Slater or a new lyricist - I do not care about who writes the lyrics, as long as Menken compose the music.
Favorite Disney-movies: Snow White, Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, Sleeping Beauty, The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, Aladdin, Pocahontas, The Hunchback of Notre Dame, Hercules, Mulan, Tarzan, Tangled, Frozen, Pirates, Enchanted, Prince of Persia, Tron, Oz The Great and Powerful
Sorry to burst your bubble people but Alan Menken is NOT working on Moana. While I didn't catch the live streaming of the awards, (the broadcast is off the air now and can't be accessed), I've asked people who have and said that no such announcement was made. There is no mention of such a thing from people live-blogging the ceremony either nor are there any credible references elsewhere online.
This rumor doesn't even make any sense. Why would Musker/Clements announce anything about their new movie during an awards ceremony? No person in their right mind would do that.
It's long been established that Moana's score will be written by Mark Mancina. Menken would never have agreed to only write the songs in a musical without writing the score as well. Not to mention that it's been practicallyconfirmed that the Lopez's are writing the songs. Considering how Menken wastreated during Tangled and removed from other projects at Disney Animation, I highly doubt they would ever let him work on another Disney animated feature again. Alan loves writing film musicals and has a good and active relationship with practically every division of the Disney company (theme parks, cruise line, live-action film division, Disney Records, Disney Theatrical, ABC etc) except with WDAS and there's no doubt in my mind that's solely because of John Lasseter (who can go suck a lemon by the way)
The Lopezes will likely do a fantastic job and I'm glad Disney is working with talented new blood. Alan Menken is great, but he's made his mark on Disney history. I still love him but he's lost a little steam lately, just like most musicians and composers do as they work more and more over the years. Nothing wrong with establishing new talent.
I feel awful about this, I'm so sorry. I thought because someone saw the awards, it means that she was right. Well, I talked to her and it turns out that she has never heard of Menken or the Clements/Musker. Here was the conversation:
Me: Wait, Alan Menken is doing the songs for Moana?! Did they announced this at the Annies?!
Poster: Oh, I couldn't tell. I heard "Music" and "Aladdin & Princess the Frog"
Me: Did they say Alan Menken
P: Couldn't tell. Don't know who he is.
Me: Did the directors mention Alan Menken?
P: Don't know who they are
Me: They presented the Voice Acting awards (When I saw it, it was at this part)
P: Oh, that's who they were!
Forgotten where this conversation ended. So, clearly she was wrong.
Edit: I feel really awful about how Disney Animation is treating Menken, who pretty much saved Disney in the late 80s. He deserves better and I blame Lasseter for this.
disneyprincess11 wrote:I feel awful about this, I'm so sorry. I thought because someone saw the awards, it means that she was right. Well, I talked to her and it turns out that she has never heard of Menken or the Clements/Musker. Here was the conversation:
Me: Wait, Alan Menken is doing the songs for Moana?! Did they announced this at the Annies?!
Poster: Oh, I couldn't tell. I heard "Music" and "Aladdin & Princess the Frog"
Me: Did they say Alan Menken
P: Couldn't tell. Don't know who he is.
Me: Did the directors mention Alan Menken?
P: Don't know who they are
Me: They presented the Voice Acting awards (When I saw it, it was at this part)
P: Oh, that's who they were!
Forgotten where this conversation ended. So, clearly she was wrong.
Edit: I feel really awful about how Disney Animation is treating Menken, who pretty much saved Disney in the late 80s. He deserves better and I blame Lasseter for this.
You probably would be saying the same thing if this was the later 80's when Menken was chosen over the Sherman brothers who were originally going to be on the Little Mermaid.
Sotiris wrote:
It's long been established that Moana's score will be written by Mark Mancina.
Oh, yes, I remember you posting that name before. My mind is always half out of my head anyway, so no surprise I didn't recall that at all.
Lady Cluck wrote:The Lopezes will likely do a fantastic job and I'm glad Disney is working with talented new blood.
I agree, I'm sure they will do a good job. I still feel Menken, even now, is better than they are, and that opinion will probably never change despite how the idea of "new new new" always seems better. I have said before that I don't see the difference in hiring other writers/composers who follow the same style as Menken though. Menken was a huge departure from the Sherman Bros. The Lopezes from Menken? Not so much.
@Prince Edward: Even though the Tangled soundtrack is my least favorite of his, it has grown on me over time. Not enough to say I love it, but I can enjoy it now. Considering I enjoyed "MKB" on first viewing, I do blame some of the weaknesses of the other songs on the singers. I enjoy the score for the most part. Some of my thoughts on the Tangled directors and John Lasseter veer into TsWade territory, so I try not to think about them, tbh. I definitely wonder how Hercules might've turned out without M&C's desire for a gospel sound, but that movie's such a favorite of mine that I don't think it would change my opinion much. Too bad there aren't at least some deleted songs with that approach, but he was probably told gospel was what they wanted early on. I personally don't think too much about the lyricists just because I doubt any of them will match Ashman, so I don't bother about who he works with really.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
Sotiris wrote:there's no doubt in my mind that's solely because of John Lasseter (who can go suck a lemon by the way )
Well said.
Lasseter gets a lot of credit, but personally I don't find him as charismatic enough to be proclaimed as the new Walt. Sure, not every movie he makes can be a hit. But personally I don't find him to be a nice or particularly likeable person. Lasseter made good choices in the past for Pixar and while he's helped Disney into a new Revival, he still didn't made enough effort to save hand drawn animation entirely as he should've. And the ditching of Menken is despicable, considering that Menken is a huge part of the Disney legacy.
Sotiris wrote:there's no doubt in my mind that's solely because of John Lasseter (who can go suck a lemon by the way )
Well said.
Lasseter gets a lot of credit, but personally I don't find him as charismatic enough to be proclaimed as the new Walt. Sure, not every movie he makes can be a hit. But personally I don't find him to be a nice or particularly likeable person. Lasseter made good choices in the past for Pixar and while he's helped Disney into a new Revival, he still didn't made enough effort to save hand drawn animation entirely as he should've. And the ditching of Menken is despicable, considering that Menken is a huge part of the Disney legacy.
Sorry, but I feel some here are giving Lassester the Ron the death eater treatment to the point it feels its not really legitimate complaints but more like sour grapes. I don't think he is obliged to have Menken on a project.
Yeah, I adore Menken as much as anyone, but he's definitely made his mark considering the 8 Oscar wins, countless other awards and nominations, and doing the music for 8 WDAS films (including some that no one wants to talk about like Home on the Range) and many other Disney-related projects. I hope he'll get to work on a big project again someday, but to act like he's been cheated by the company is a bit of a stretch imo. I do think the Lopez pair bring a slightly different flavor despite having the same Broadway sensibilities as Menken. I'm excited to see what they come up with now that they'll be given a bit more free reign after the success and popularity of the Frozen music (and why wouldn't Disney hire them again after that?).
Howard Ashman is of course always the undersung hero when discussing Menken's early works.
Sotiris wrote:except with WDAS and there's no doubt in my mind that's solely because of John Lasseter (who can go suck a lemon by the way )
I similarly detect some animosity between Menken and Lasseter. Or rather, disrespect on Lasseter's end towards Menken.
Did Menken make fun of Lasseter's tacky Hawaiian shirts?
Or, as I suspect, do some of the higher ups feel that Menken is too old or too "low key" to make them a lot of money?
I doubt Disney'll ever give the guy a break. They'll want the Lopez duo to do everything for the rest of the decade, because Frozen is popular and Let It Go is so recognized. (And because Frozen made over a billion dollars, that's important too.)
I feel that Lasseter doesn't particularly care about Menken due to Menken's successes came from before his time at WDAS. Lasseter seems to want to find his own success stories, tradition be damned. Ron and John are probably on closer terms with Lasseter, or just know the right way to stick around.
I think I'm among the few Disney fans who doesn't worship Menken, but I wouldn't have minded him doing the music here. Ah well.
Avaitor wrote:I feel that Lasseter doesn't particularly care about Menken due to Menken's successes came from before his time at WDAS. Lasseter seems to want to find his own success stories, tradition be damned. Ron and John are probably on closer terms with Lasseter, or just know the right way to stick around.
I think I'm among the few Disney fans who doesn't worship Menken, but I wouldn't have minded him doing the music here. Ah well.
I dont like Lasseter, but for much worse things he's done *coughwagescandalcough*
Avaitor wrote:I feel that Lasseter doesn't particularly care about Menken due to Menken's successes came from before his time at WDAS. Lasseter seems to want to find his own success stories, tradition be damned. Ron and John are probably on closer terms with Lasseter, or just know the right way to stick around.
I agree, and this is the main reason I don't like him. I suppose if I had been a Pixar fan like more people, I probably wouldn't care, but having him and Pixar coming in to "fix" Disney animation left a bad taste in my mouth, especially when the only things they have done differently since are the titles and the animation medium--Frozen, Tangled, and TP&TF are all very similar to '90s Disney. Plus seeing his stamp on things completely unrelated to him, like The Little Mermaid Diamond Edition--as if that film ever needed his "fixing"--is nauseating.
In regards to Menken, it's really that Lasseter views Menken as passé, but had brought Randy Newman onto TP&TF in his place. And it makes me suspicious the way they treated both TP&TF and Tangled, in relation to hand-drawn animation and Menken, respectively. I do feel like they wanted to seal the deal with hand-drawn animation so everyone would shut up, but without anyone viewing him as the bad guy. With Menken, his "last chance" so to speak was with two directors who seemed not to even want him there--which gave him an excuse to dump Menken without anyone viewing him as the bad guy. How Musker and Clements managed to survive Lasseter's cleaning house (for now), I have no idea.
Listening to most often lately:
Taylor Swift ~ ~ "The Fate of Ophelia"
Taylor Swift ~ "Eldest Daughter"
Taylor Swift ~ "CANCELLED!"
I thought because someone saw the awards, it means that she was right. Well, I talked to her and it turns out that she has never heard of Menken or the Clements/Musker. Here was the conversation:
I definitely wonder how Hercules might've turned out without M&C's desire for a gospel sound, but that movie's such a favorite of mine that I don't think it would change my opinion much. 
Too bad there aren't at least some deleted songs with that approach, but he was probably told gospel was what they wanted early on. I personally don't think too much about the lyricists just because I doubt any of them will match Ashman, so I don't bother about who he works with really.
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